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Tip.It Times - 22nd August 2010


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32 replies to this topic

#21
Sir_Squab
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it could have been that the author wasn't using, for example, an arcane stream? Some high level players may consider a mager without this (and maybe other equipment like staff of light/decent mage robes) a second rate mager.


Nope, I had full infinity, an Arcane Stream, a Tome of Frost and a Staff of Light on... so it was the fact that I was using Water Surges.


What I think the first article is getting at is that people should be able to do whatever they want on whatever their spellbook if they feel like it without being insulted. If somebody is on regular magic and has a few runes, they should be able to go to a time wasting mini-game for fun without worrying about being hassled. You shouldn't need to prepare for 20 mins buying runes and changing magic just to play.


Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to get at, and the fact that all spellbooks have their uses and none of them are "Second-Rate".


To be perfectly honest....in terms of pure combat maging, standard is second rate to ancients....especially in a large multicombat arena such as C Wars. Sure, watersurge is a nice spell, fairly accurate, possibly more then ancients, and you have entangle... but barrages beat it out. Especially with the 9x targeting...freezing a large group of melee'ers, or just healing off them....

Damn though, I want an arcane stream >.< exp weekend threw me off track. Not so sure on the tome of frost....I can get water runes in more ways then one, but not 48k tokens. Maybe after a chaotic weapon...

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#22
Sir_Kurity
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To be perfectly honest....in terms of pure combat maging, standard is second rate to ancients....especially in a large multicombat arena such as C Wars.


Exactly.

In the true sense of the word, you are second rate. In the same way that someone using broad bolts in PVP instead of say dragon bolts is second rate.

Sure, broad bolts are much more cost effective, but you are most definately second rate in comparison to dragon bolts.

Now the REAL thing to rant about is why many players honestly feel the need to constantly insult other players, people can play the game how they want to play. If they don't want to blow millions barraging in castle wars, let them be...
O.O

#23
3hitm4g3u
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What kind of noob only has 85 magic o_O

From when level 60s are running around with barrage, you have to step your game up.
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#24
Earth_Poet
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First article: My whip is second rate, but it still gets the job done, especially since I'm not training strength. My 20k rune pickaxe works good enough that I sold my 13M dragon pickaxe. The difference in efficiency didn't seem to justify the difference in price.

Second rate isn't always a bad option. I get what you were trying to say, though I think you may have provided a poor analogy. Standard spellbook is inferior in comparison with Castle Wars. Just like I wouldn't expect a dragon scimitar to defeat a godsword in a typical duel. In terms of training, though, a dragon scimmy is still a viable, cost effective option. As was also pointed out, the explanation of the spellbooks was too much.

Second article: Your article also made me admit that the game seems to be getting broader in terms of training methods. There used to be considered one, efficient method of training, and maybe a money-making method or two. The differences seem to be growing, and that's a wonderful thing.

In terms of progression though, it seems Jagex is slowly reversing their policies. There are more ways to build skills with less time actually doing the tasks. More D&Ds and Bonus XP weekends degrade the value of the experience. As I read one Jagex employee put it, it's not about accomplishment, but being able to get to the "fun" things faster. That means newer players won't have to earn their stripes on those chaos druids. Overall, a fun article. And ending it with flattery will get you everywhere. :wink:
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#25
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Nope, I had full infinity, an Arcane Stream, a Tome of Frost and a Staff of Light on... so it was the fact that I was using Water Surges.

Well, Ahrim's is better than Infinity. But yeah, modern magic really is weaker than ancients. Especially in Castle Wars where movement is super-important to the gameplay.

#26
z0diark
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In reply to requiem, you were called 'second rate magers' not people using a second rate spellbook. I've regularly changed the course of castle wars games just by knowing how to entangle effectively (where to stand/place barricades etc), it's far more accurate than ice spells and if you don't have to rely on doing damage to the scorer with magic then it's not much worse than ice barraging. It's more than likely that the person insulting you was referring to your skills rather than your spellbook. Alternatively it was just some idiot who wanted to flame someone and should be ignored for that exact reason.
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#27
stonewall337
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First article: I really don't understand what the point of explaining all three spellbooks was. You're posting an article on a Runescape fansite, so your audience is likely to know that information beforehand. It seemed as though the entire point was to defend yourself against some stranger who called you a noob, and you didn't even do that very well. Ancients are far better than modern magicks for PVP, and not just because the spells are better (autocast, anyone?).

I'd much rather read an article about magic from Muggi or someone with similar experience.

Second article: Well-written. It inspired a twinge of nostalgia and retrospection in me. I especially liked the last line.

EDIT:

I find it interesting how most people agree that the 2nd article was better, then go on to talk about the first article, if only to state their disagreement. To me, the most successful article is the one that generates the most commentary.


There's a difference between a controversial article and a poorly written article. If the first article was controversial, edgy, and sparked some sort of heated discussion, I'd absolutely agree. However, it's just a list of spells and a tiny little attempt by the author to defend herself against a stranger. You'll typically find that people are much more vocal about things they dislike than things they like. In this case, the first article sucked, and everyone's pointing it out.


This is why I scrapped the article I had written, and am either going to change topics or re-write. It didn't convey what I was trying to convey, and it was too much information people probably already knew.

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#28
GreenStorm
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One particularly interesting re-occurring facet of this conversation is the price or cost effectiveness of spells. I must say that I disagree with the emphasis placed on cost by Requiem1160, the author of the first article for several reasons. In my opinion, the cost of a combat spell is almost irrelevant. This is due to the specialized nature of common usage of said combat spells. For the most part in practical applications, combat spells are used relatively few times-- in a typical game of Castle Wars, one might expect to cast anywhere from 100 to 500 casts of their chosen combat spell, while in a PvP situation far fewer casts are used. For the most part, usage of combat magic is limited to these situations (and maybe a few others)1 for several simple reasons. Primarily, combat spells are an inefficient way of gaining Magic xp, as the xp gained per cost per unit time is inferior to other methods, regardless of the cost of the combat spell itself. Secondarily, combat spells are (for the most part) inefficient at dealing damage,2 making other combat styles the way to go. So, therefore, as combat magic is rarely used in situations where massive quantities of spells are cast, cost is rendered almost totally irrelevant, and should therefore not play an important role in the author's "second-rate-or-not" value judgement.


1. I exclude other minigame activities where combat magic is used (such as Stealing Creation and Fist of Guthix) because the "cost" of spells becomes almost totally irrelevant in these situations.
2. One exception to this is the almost mandated practice of maging Dagannoth Rex, as he is almost invulnerable to the other combat styles. To an extent, Ice Strikewyrms can also be considered in this category. In these cases, cost does matter, as on a typical DK maging trip one can expect to use well over 1.5k casts of Claws of Guthix or Fire Surge.
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#29
Wingless
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It's more than likely that the person insulting you was referring to your skills rather than your spellbook. Alternatively it was just some idiot who wanted to flame someone and should be ignored for that exact reason.


It's definitely possible, but once again, I doubt very much it was my skills. For all she knew, I could've been 99 Mage and just using Water Surges cause I had a ToF handy. Also the fact that she referred to both I and Racheya as "Magers" also suggests that it was our spellbooks.

It could also be the latter, she could've been a flaming troll, but at least it gave me an idea for an article ^_^

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#30
stonewall337
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It's more than likely that the person insulting you was referring to your skills rather than your spellbook. Alternatively it was just some idiot who wanted to flame someone and should be ignored for that exact reason.


It's definitely possible, but once again, I doubt very much it was my skills. For all she knew, I could've been 99 Mage and just using Water Surges cause I had a ToF handy. Also the fact that she referred to both I and Racheya as "Magers" also suggests that it was our spellbooks.

It could also be the latter, she could've been a flaming troll, but at least it gave me an idea for an article ^_^

Or else you and racheya just have such a similar writing style...

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#31
howbadisbad
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Mage protect halves the bind time of normal magic binds.
Your carrying around more types of runes.
Your wasting an attack turn on a bind.
Can't one click normal magic spells like you can ancient spells.

EDIT: This too.

It seemed as though the entire point was to defend yourself against some stranger who called you a noob, and you didn't even do that very well.


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Hypocrite. You tell others to be nice then attempt to murder people. Nice going, you just failed life.


#32
Sir_Kurity
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Truely, not meaning to insult anyone. But does anyone think the articles just arent as..... interesting as before?
O.O

#33
Crit2h
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2nd Article was nicer than 1st one, though both was impressive in its ways.




Yeah, like that zaryte bow
wait

recharge costs = ammo.

So, all melee weapons are overpowered, at least.

this combat triangle finally makes sense...





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