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Should Endgame Quests Require Awesome Levels?


Louisc111

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I don't see how the quest cape has any relevance to how difficult quests should be. It's a cape of achievement, that's all. It's only logical that quests will get harder and harder and require higher skills than previous quests. I would consider every single quest out right now to be medium-level content or lower, so it wouldn't make sense for Jagex to avoid high-level quests when there's such a large player-base that would appreciate them. I'm a 137 and I would love a quest that could give me a run for my money.

 

What? You're not 137 and don't feel that quests should be designed for 137's? Maybe you don't deserve that cape after all.

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There is no doubt quests will eventually have 90+ requirements, but i think it's the way you get there that really is prone to discussion.

 

They can't just bump the quest requirements from 70~ish to 90+. It would have to be gradual, so people who already have the Quest Cape manage to keep up.

 

But these are just my 2 cents, for now i just want them to introduce a new overworld boss :thumbup:

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In my opinion, quests shouldnt have hard quest requirements, but should be so hard to do that without certain skills, it would be stupid to attempt it anyway.

 

In which case you might as well make it a requirement in the first place....

 

No...

 

Just because its incredibly hard for low levels, doesnt mean it should be impossible (can't even start the quest, being impossible).

 

If someone has the skill or dedication to do a certain quest without the reccomended combat requirement, then just let them do it. One shouldn't be forced to grind to a high level just to do a quest, that being said, a high level SHOULD be an advantage in doing this quest.

O.O

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Do you think they'll add a quest directly related to Daemonheim, in the same way they just gave a quest to the Void Knights?

I think it's inevitable, personally.

 

 

The thing is the only way to prove what you are arguing is if after you reach level 119 or 120 or whatnot, after you defeat Bilrach/Zamorak/Whatnot, there would be some change. And considering Bilrach is a Mahjarrat, he would have a gigantic amount of power.

 

What would make it a quest however, was if after you defeat/confront him, something would affect and/or progress the rest of Runescape Lore or Mythology, heck even Daemonheim's Plot. The way Dungeoneering is panning out so far, bosses keep re-apearing. In quests, bosses are one time only that once defeated something happens and (dramaticly or not) changes the plot.

 

In Daemonheim, you defeat a boss, nothing changes.

 

And thats the main diference between Dungeoneering and a quest: Progression. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING you do in Daemonheim changes and/or affect the outcome so far. Everything you find is from the past. You don't build new passageways, you go through the same halls Bilrach once was. Sure, while this may resemble some quests (again, EW comes to mind), the majority of Quests revolve around progressing the plot to reach a conclusion. Daemonheim is, currently, STALE.

 

Again, this could be proven or Disproven By batch 1.825, 2, 3 or whatever it will be called.

 

If you ask me to describe Dungeoneering, I'd say it is a Minigame, albeit a very well produced with a nice backstory one, with a taken on EXP method. Experience that is mostly useless outside of RS.

 

I already said that it has the mechanics of a skill (doing the same thing over and over again; grinding). Do you know why the story doesn't progress like it does in a quest? Because Jagex hasn't finished the story yet. Once the skill is complete, a run from floor 1-60 will play out very similarly to an epic quest.

 

Given that you think Daemonheim is stale, I'd say that your aversion to relating Dungeoneering to a quest is mostly just your dislike of Dungeoneering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you think they'll add a quest directly related to Daemonheim, in the same way they just gave a quest to the Void Knights?

 

Dungeoneering =/= minigame.

Pest Control = minigame.

 

The point of this argument is that Dungeoneering IS a quest, one that requires fluid skill levels but definitely gives an advantage to those at the top (which I believe some poster posted as the requirement for the "ultimate" quest).

 

That being said, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a quest related to Dungeoneering in some way.

 

 

I think the only way for Jagex to create a quest that directly relates to the events in Daemonheim would be to have multiple levels of completion for the quest (like RFD). How far you can get in the quest would depend on how far into Daemonheim you've explored, but there'd be quest points and rewards for every "step" of the quest, if you will. Then, of course, there's the matter of Bilrach attending the ritual in the north, Zamorak being freed, etc. I think there'll be quests that INVOLVE the events of Daemonheim, but none specifically about Daemonheim.

 

 

Well then we're 4 to believe the skill alone will still need a quest sooner or later. And why do you think they'll add a new quest? Because if they leave the skill as it is right now, even adding new levels, it will never move on from that. That's what quests are there for - to make progress in the history of the game, to solve the plots.

 

I think you're just confusing the words "quest" and "adventure". Both Dungeoneering and questing are adventures. But they're two different types of adventures. You think it's a quest because of how you explore and learn more about the area while you do the skill, right? Well, that's what adventuring is about, but questing takes a few more ingredients than that. I think the misunderstanding is solved here much.

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Because that would piss off a hell of a lot of people who have barely have their quescapes. I'd certainly be pissed off at a quest with 90 fishing, 90 agility, 90 mining/construction.... that's actually part of the reason that the diaries have no cape for completing them all. They could make diaries that require 99 in some skills. You'd still have the rewards from the diaries you beat. But with the questcape, people lose out on it, and they become very angry. That's WHY Jagex makes quests that, at worst, usually take a couple weeks for someone who previously had the questcape to beat. (Except maybe someone who JUST got it.)

 

I could easily see them making dwarf or elf content with reqs in the 90s, but Jagex isn't dumb enough to do that with quests.

 

 

who care so much about their skillcape /questcape? three is no achievement in having the quest cape. it's 13m exp to get all the requirements. I'll give you 20m exp as a benchmark if you like, but that's still 20m of the first 50m exp you'll get ingame. so what if someone loses their quest cape? so what if someone loses their firecape (which is a greater achievement). you're saying the reason quests don't have higher requirements is that jagex cares about your quest cape. i think jagex just haven't been able to churn out enough quests to gradually make it up to requirements that matter. at some point they must realize that their "elite" content never is or has been elite, because they've released it too slowly, over-saturating the low-level game instead.

 

Or, Jagex could just NOT make a quest where you catch a misquito with a chopstick. Problem solved. Also, pretty sure the TzHaar quest involved mining and construction in a volcanic cavern - WITHOUT level 99 mining and construction. So, yeah, you need requirements - the question the OP posted WASN'T should quests have requirements, but rather "awesome levels." So, as long as we avoid catching a misquito with a chopstick, we're good. Or, maybe part of the quest involves making some special potion, or doing something so that you ARE able to catch a misquito with a chopstick - and by doing something, I mean doing questing stuff, rather then catching a bunch of kyatts.

 

As for any arguments being emotive....here's a question. Would Vulcans waste time playing video games, especially ones that involve a lot of grinding? Probably not.

Runescape is enough of a grindfest as is, let's try to keep questing away from that. if there are no requirements for doing quests (by "requirements" i mean something not everyone has, or can get at thier wish at any time), why do npc's need your help? does a fireman need help from a random stranger to fix his fire department?

 

again, your argument is emotive in the sense that you argue for exactly what you would like, not what's good for the game, not what's reasonable in terms of lore, not what's reasonable in terms of providing incentives to play the game as it is meant to be played (hey, jagex added levels up to 99...)

No one has said anything about lvl 99. level 92 is half way. there's a significant difference there. i'm all for any requirement up to lvl 92 in anything for any reason.

 

IF you don't like the main mechanic of the game (grinding), don't play it. CHOOSE A DIFFERENT GAME, don't come here whining about something you know won't change, that there's no reason to change. it's like playing monopoly, disliking that distance moved is determined by a dice...

 

you want a segmented game, where gamplay in the form of quests, and gameplay in the form of activities, minigames, area access, skills etc are segregated, becasue you only want to play a tiny portion of the game. that is unreasonable for everyone who wants to play the game as a whole, which again is what jagex intend.

 

 

there is no sense in achievement, when people like you without any real mastery of the game (sorry, i looked your stats up) wear the same cooking, fletching and quest capes as us other players. there is no incentive to train skills (other than dungeoneering) for endgame content, quests should be another reason to do exactly that.

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Because that would piss off a hell of a lot of people who have barely have their quescapes. I'd certainly be pissed off at a quest with 90 fishing, 90 agility, 90 mining/construction.... that's actually part of the reason that the diaries have no cape for completing them all. They could make diaries that require 99 in some skills. You'd still have the rewards from the diaries you beat. But with the questcape, people lose out on it, and they become very angry. That's WHY Jagex makes quests that, at worst, usually take a couple weeks for someone who previously had the questcape to beat. (Except maybe someone who JUST got it.)

 

I could easily see them making dwarf or elf content with reqs in the 90s, but Jagex isn't dumb enough to do that with quests.

 

 

who care so much about their skillcape /questcape? three is no achievement in having the quest cape. it's 13m exp to get all the requirements. I'll give you 20m exp as a benchmark if you like, but that's still 20m of the first 50m exp you'll get ingame. so what if someone loses their quest cape? so what if someone loses their firecape (which is a greater achievement). you're saying the reason quests don't have higher requirements is that jagex cares about your quest cape. i think jagex just haven't been able to churn out enough quests to gradually make it up to requirements that matter. at some point they must realize that their "elite" content never is or has been elite, because they've released it too slowly, over-saturating the low-level game instead.

 

Or, Jagex could just NOT make a quest where you catch a misquito with a chopstick. Problem solved. Also, pretty sure the TzHaar quest involved mining and construction in a volcanic cavern - WITHOUT level 99 mining and construction. So, yeah, you need requirements - the question the OP posted WASN'T should quests have requirements, but rather "awesome levels." So, as long as we avoid catching a misquito with a chopstick, we're good. Or, maybe part of the quest involves making some special potion, or doing something so that you ARE able to catch a misquito with a chopstick - and by doing something, I mean doing questing stuff, rather then catching a bunch of kyatts.

 

As for any arguments being emotive....here's a question. Would Vulcans waste time playing video games, especially ones that involve a lot of grinding? Probably not.

Runescape is enough of a grindfest as is, let's try to keep questing away from that. if there are no requirements for doing quests (by "requirements" i mean something not everyone has, or can get at thier wish at any time), why do npc's need your help? does a fireman need help from a random stranger to fix his fire department?

 

again, your argument is emotive in the sense that you argue for exactly what you would like, not what's good for the game, not what's reasonable in terms of lore, not what's reasonable in terms of providing incentives to play the game as it is meant to be played (hey, jagex added levels up to 99...)

No one has said anything about lvl 99. level 92 is half way. there's a significant difference there. i'm all for any requirement up to lvl 92 in anything for any reason.

 

IF you don't like the main mechanic of the game (grinding), don't play it. CHOOSE A DIFFERENT GAME, don't come here whining about something you know won't change, that there's no reason to change. it's like playing monopoly, disliking that distance moved is determined by a dice...

 

you want a segmented game, where gamplay in the form of quests, and gameplay in the form of activities, minigames, area access, skills etc are segregated, becasue you only want to play a tiny portion of the game. that is unreasonable for everyone who wants to play the game as a whole, which again is what jagex intend.

 

 

there is no sense in achievement, when people like you without any real mastery of the game (sorry, i looked your stats up) wear the same cooking, fletching and quest capes as us other players. there is no incentive to train skills (other than dungeoneering) for endgame content, quests should be another reason to do exactly that.

This game clearly has more mechanic than grinding. You're given the choice and everyone knows that. If you wanna be a PVPer you can just train combat skills. If you wanna be a quester you can just get the requirements. From my perspective skills are only tools you use in order to achieve other things, you chose to level them as much as you need. I think it's you who's not happy about it, here. If you want a game where everything depends on grinding, quit and go on some game like World of Warcraft where all you get is grinding. Also, saying the Fire Cape is a greater achievement than a Quest Cape is absurd. If you'd have done all the quests by yourself you'd have known it. I don't see why people who just rushed all the quests like you should even be entitled an opinion on this, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

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I think the only way for Jagex to create a quest that directly relates to the events in Daemonheim would be to have multiple levels of completion for the quest (like RFD). How far you can get in the quest would depend on how far into Daemonheim you've explored, but there'd be quest points and rewards for every "step" of the quest, if you will. Then, of course, there's the matter of Bilrach attending the ritual in the north, Zamorak being freed, etc. I think there'll be quests that INVOLVE the events of Daemonheim, but none specifically about Daemonheim.

 

 

Well then we're 4 to believe the skill alone will still need a quest sooner or later. And why do you think they'll add a new quest? Because if they leave the skill as it is right now, even adding new levels, it will never move on from that. That's what quests are there for - to make progress in the history of the game, to solve the plots.

 

I think you're just confusing the words "quest" and "adventure". Both Dungeoneering and questing are adventures. But they're two different types of adventures. You think it's a quest because of how you explore and learn more about the area while you do the skill, right? Well, that's what adventuring is about, but questing takes a few more ingredients than that. I think the misunderstanding is solved here much.

 

But the events in Daemonheim DO have a progressing plot, like I've already mentioned many times. The plot will eventually stop when the "quest" is complete, just like in real quests. The only thing that quests have that Dungeoneering does not have is quest points.

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I think the only way for Jagex to create a quest that directly relates to the events in Daemonheim would be to have multiple levels of completion for the quest (like RFD). How far you can get in the quest would depend on how far into Daemonheim you've explored, but there'd be quest points and rewards for every "step" of the quest, if you will. Then, of course, there's the matter of Bilrach attending the ritual in the north, Zamorak being freed, etc. I think there'll be quests that INVOLVE the events of Daemonheim, but none specifically about Daemonheim.

 

 

Well then we're 4 to believe the skill alone will still need a quest sooner or later. And why do you think they'll add a new quest? Because if they leave the skill as it is right now, even adding new levels, it will never move on from that. That's what quests are there for - to make progress in the history of the game, to solve the plots.

 

I think you're just confusing the words "quest" and "adventure". Both Dungeoneering and questing are adventures. But they're two different types of adventures. You think it's a quest because of how you explore and learn more about the area while you do the skill, right? Well, that's what adventuring is about, but questing takes a few more ingredients than that. I think the misunderstanding is solved here much.

 

But the events in Daemonheim DO have a progressing plot, like I've already mentioned many times. The plot will eventually stop when the "quest" is complete, just like in real quests. The only thing that quests have that Dungeoneering does not have is quest points.

 

The books/notes you find in Dungeoneering were already there before you even entered the dungeon. Your knowledge makes progress but the game doesn't.

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I think the only way for Jagex to create a quest that directly relates to the events in Daemonheim would be to have multiple levels of completion for the quest (like RFD). How far you can get in the quest would depend on how far into Daemonheim you've explored, but there'd be quest points and rewards for every "step" of the quest, if you will. Then, of course, there's the matter of Bilrach attending the ritual in the north, Zamorak being freed, etc. I think there'll be quests that INVOLVE the events of Daemonheim, but none specifically about Daemonheim.

 

 

Well then we're 4 to believe the skill alone will still need a quest sooner or later. And why do you think they'll add a new quest? Because if they leave the skill as it is right now, even adding new levels, it will never move on from that. That's what quests are there for - to make progress in the history of the game, to solve the plots.

 

I think you're just confusing the words "quest" and "adventure". Both Dungeoneering and questing are adventures. But they're two different types of adventures. You think it's a quest because of how you explore and learn more about the area while you do the skill, right? Well, that's what adventuring is about, but questing takes a few more ingredients than that. I think the misunderstanding is solved here much.

 

But the events in Daemonheim DO have a progressing plot, like I've already mentioned many times. The plot will eventually stop when the "quest" is complete, just like in real quests. The only thing that quests have that Dungeoneering does not have is quest points.

 

The books/notes you find in Dungeoneering were already there before you even entered the dungeon. Your knowledge makes progress but the game doesn't.

 

And what happens when we get to the bottom of Daemonheim . . . ? You're not looking at the big picture. We're not just uncovering clues right now, we're also fighting through hordes of monsters to reach Bilrach before he can unleash Zamorak. There is undeniably a progressing plot.

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I think the only way for Jagex to create a quest that directly relates to the events in Daemonheim would be to have multiple levels of completion for the quest (like RFD). How far you can get in the quest would depend on how far into Daemonheim you've explored, but there'd be quest points and rewards for every "step" of the quest, if you will. Then, of course, there's the matter of Bilrach attending the ritual in the north, Zamorak being freed, etc. I think there'll be quests that INVOLVE the events of Daemonheim, but none specifically about Daemonheim.

 

 

Well then we're 4 to believe the skill alone will still need a quest sooner or later. And why do you think they'll add a new quest? Because if they leave the skill as it is right now, even adding new levels, it will never move on from that. That's what quests are there for - to make progress in the history of the game, to solve the plots.

 

I think you're just confusing the words "quest" and "adventure". Both Dungeoneering and questing are adventures. But they're two different types of adventures. You think it's a quest because of how you explore and learn more about the area while you do the skill, right? Well, that's what adventuring is about, but questing takes a few more ingredients than that. I think the misunderstanding is solved here much.

 

But the events in Daemonheim DO have a progressing plot, like I've already mentioned many times. The plot will eventually stop when the "quest" is complete, just like in real quests. The only thing that quests have that Dungeoneering does not have is quest points.

 

The books/notes you find in Dungeoneering were already there before you even entered the dungeon. Your knowledge makes progress but the game doesn't.

 

And what happens when we get to the bottom of Daemonheim . . . ? You're not looking at the big picture. We're not just uncovering clues right now, we're also fighting through hordes of monsters to reach Bilrach before he can unleash Zamorak. There is undeniably a progressing plot.

 

In regards to the first sentence, We don't know, and neither do you. So lets not assume what Dungeoneering could be and judge what dungeoneering is.

 

This means Daemonheim has a stale plot. Like silvertale and i have said, it doesn't move on. It's there set in stone. No matter what you do so far, it won't progress. This denial of progression is the main reason Dungeoneering isn't a quest.

 

I do agree Daemonheim will eventually be home to a quest, and i look forward to it, since Bilrach is one of the few remaining mahjarrat that still weren't seen in physical form , only him and Sliske remain i think. Him being introduced would mean the ritual could be happening sooner than i though.

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And what happens when we get to the bottom of Daemonheim . . . ? You're not looking at the big picture. We're not just uncovering clues right now, we're also fighting through hordes of monsters to reach Bilrach before he can unleash Zamorak. There is undeniably a progressing plot.

 

In regards to the first sentence, We don't know, and neither do you. So lets not assume what Dungeoneering could be and judge what dungeoneering is.

 

This means Daemonheim has a stale plot. Like silvertale and i have said, it doesn't move on. It's there set in stone. No matter what you do so far, it won't progress. This denial of progression is the main reason Dungeoneering isn't a quest.

 

I do agree Daemonheim will eventually be home to a quest, and i look forward to it, since Bilrach is one of the few remaining mahjarrat that still weren't seen in physical form , only him and Sliske remain i think. Him being introduced would mean the ritual could be happening sooner than i though.

 

Wow, are we really going to go through all of this again? We KNOW what Bilrach is planning to do. WE KNOW. We have to stop him for obvious reasons. How in the world is that stale at all? Do you really want me to explain the story again? The plot DOES progress whether you like it or not. It's a "multi-part" quest in a sense. I don't know if you're aware, but batch 2 isn't out yet, so the story isn't complete yet. However, there IS an end to the story.

 

You're arguing technicalities, which is pretty unimaginative of you. You and I both know that this story has an ending and that we'll almost certainly have to confront Bilrach and stop him. For whatever reason, you're trying to very hard to forget that and argue that "nothing" has happened, therefore the plot is stagnant and stale, which is faulty reasoning. You can't just ignore an important aspect of the issue to support your argument.

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I'm not saying "nothing has happened", I'm saying nothing IS happening!

 

The whole story of Daemonheim is like the introduction of anything in the knowledge base. It's Lore, but Lore you can't interact with. Nothing progresses. No matter how much dungeons you complete, stomp won't come through the portal, The two magicians won't be toghether, the Stalkers won't have less eyes and the last Demon generals won't appear. It's frozen in time, it is still.

 

If you say I'm ignoring arguments, then tell me: In which way do you interact with Daemonheim that actually makes the plot change, progress or shift? How can you progress the story then? I can argue you are trying to deny your argument by not providing any evidence the plot progresses.

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I'm not saying "nothing has happened", I'm saying nothing IS happening!

 

The whole story of Daemonheim is like the introduction of anything in the knowledge base. It's Lore, but Lore you can't interact with. Nothing progresses. No matter how much dungeons you complete, stomp won't come through the portal, The two magicians won't be toghether, the Stalkers won't have less eyes and the last Demon generals won't appear. It's frozen in time, it is still.

 

If you say I'm ignoring arguments, then tell me: In which way do you interact with Daemonheim that actually makes the plot change, progress or shift? How can you progress the story then? I can argue you are trying to deny your argument by not providing any evidence the plot progresses.

 

Every time you descend to another floor, you're progressing the plot because each consecutive floor puts you closer and closer to Bilrach. We've defeated four of his Kal'Gerion generals, which is a pretty big deal. Furthermore, I don't see how uncovering lore makes it any less of a quest. It's not uncommon for questers in any game, movie, or book to have to piece together clues to find out what's going on, which is exactly what we're doing here.

 

You can think of the various Dungeoneering batches as quests in a series. The initial release was quest one, batch 1.75 was quest two, and batch 2 will presumably be the final installment. In that sense, you can compare Dungeoneering to any quest series, such as the Void quests or the Summer quests. Using your logic and reasoning, the Void quest series (and any quest series that has yet to conclude) is stagnant and stale because the plot does not progress.

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While i see your point, you seem to forget that anything you do in Daemonheim doesn't ultimatly affect Bilrach, he is (possibly) already at the bottom of this location, and he and his servants merely recorded the plot. Therefore You are not progressing the plot, your are merely discovering it.

 

Now comparing this to the Void series, where YOU make the plot progress, this difference is easily noticeable. Not to say Daemonheims method of telling story wasn't used by quests (EW comes to mind again). But in Dungeoneering, the plot as already progressed and (possibly) ended. Summing up, where in Daemonheim you merely uncover the plot, in the Void series you make it progress.

 

The uncovering Plot argument also has it's own sense, even though apart from the EW series i don't recall any quest revolving around this. In other quests though, the plot progresses as you discover it, instead of just lying there for you to collect.

 

As for the defeating the bosses and such, this is another thing that makes it feel less like a quest and more like a Minigame/D&D. They respawn and even after you defeat them nothing in the future floors change. After you defeat a landmark boss i any quest some location in the very same quest changes, even if you may face the boss again (Phoenix comes to mind).

 

PS: Is it me or this argument is becoming... fun? :thumbup:

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While i see your point, you seem to forget that anything you do in Daemonheim doesn't ultimatly affect Bilrach, he is (possibly) already at the bottom of this location, and he and his servants merely recorded the plot. Therefore You are not progressing the plot, your are merely discovering it.

 

Now comparing this to the Void series, where YOU make the plot progress, this difference is easily noticeable. Not to say Daemonheims method of telling story wasn't used by quests (EW comes to mind again). But in Dungeoneering, the plot as already progressed and (possibly) ended. Summing up, where in Daemonheim you merely uncover the plot, in the Void series you make it progress.

 

The uncovering Plot argument also has it's own sense, even though apart from the EW series i don't recall any quest revolving around this. In other quests though, the plot progresses as you discover it, instead of just lying there for you to collect.

 

As for the defeating the bosses and such, this is another thing that makes it feel less like a quest and more like a Minigame/D&D. They respawn and even after you defeat them nothing in the future floors change. After you defeat a landmark boss i any quest some location in the very same quest changes, even if you may face the boss again (Phoenix comes to mind).

 

PS: Is it me or this argument is becoming... fun? :thumbup:

 

Demoli, please stop bringing up the skill mechanics of Dungeoneering when we're talking about the questing side of it. For the umpteenth time, I know that the bosses keep appearing and you play through the floors a bunch of times. Believe me, I know. That's why it's a skill. Can we drop that now?

 

In regards to reaching Bilrach, we know that he hasn't completed his task yet because the world hasn't ended. Thus, we still have a chance to stop him, which is what we're trying to do.

 

This argument was always fun, as I always enjoy arguing. It's unfortunate that it's ended now, as you've admitted that other quests use the same storytelling device as Dungeoneering, meaning that Dungeoneering is no less of a quest in regards to the way the plot progresses and how the story is told.

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Just because it uses a storytelling mechanic that resembles a specific series of quest, ignoring the other thousand, doesn't make Dungeoneering quest like.

 

But i guess each of us has it's points and it's obvious you aren't giving your position and I'm not giving mine, so yeah i guess our argument ends here.

 

T'was fun.

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Just because it uses a storytelling mechanic that resembles a specific series of quest, ignoring the other thousand, doesn't make Dungeoneering quest like.

 

But i guess each of us has it's points and it's obvious you aren't giving your position and I'm not giving mine, so yeah i guess our argument ends here.

 

T'was fun.

 

So you don't believe that uncovering clues to find answers is a valid way to progress a plot? In Runescape, we often have to rely on texts and ancient artifacts and the like to solve a problem or progress a storyline. It's not new with Dungeoneering. In fact, it's much more common than you say it is -- Dungeoneering just relies on it more heavily than others, which makes sense as we're dealing with an antagonist who has a few thousand year lead on us.

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I'm not saying it is an unvalid way to progres the plot, I'm saying that if that is the only way to even acknowledge the plot, since you can't really progress it so far, then you can't do much for it, you can just sit back and read. This might be good for a minigame and exceptional for a skill, but for a quest? Lacking to say the least.

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I'm not saying it is an unvalid way to progres the plot, I'm saying that if that is the only way to even acknowledge the plot, since you can't really progress it so far, then you can't do much for it, you can just sit back and read. This might be good for a minigame and exceptional for a skill, but for a quest? Lacking to say the least.

 

Wow, you keep bringing up progression of the plot despite my countering that argument multiple times. Stop. Once again, your argument seems to be more emotive in that you just don't want Dungeoneering in your life at all, so your arguing against it however you can, despite the fact that you can't counter any of my arguments.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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You can't just ignore facts that counter your thesis, they are there and they keep Dungeoneering to ever be quest like, at least in the plot part.

 

And if you are saynig i am now being emotive about dungeoneering, maybe you are also giving dungeoneering a lot more credit than it deserves you know?

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You can't just ignore facts that counter your thesis, they are there and they keep Dungeoneering to ever be quest like, at least in the plot part.

 

And if you are saynig i am now being emotive about dungeoneering, maybe you are also giving dungeoneering a lot more credit than it deserves you know?

 

But I'm not ignoring facts. Your argument is that Dungeoneering uses a storytelling device that you don't like, therefore Dungeoneering is not a quest, correct? If Reldo handed us a collection of texts and documents and said "here, read this, see if you can go stop Bilrach before he figures out how to free Zamorak," I would completely agree with you. However, that's not the case. It is the case that we are currently battling our way to the bottom of a castle to stop him while finding out what's going on as we progress, which is a pretty common scenario in many Runescape quests. The only difference is that texts tell us what happened rather than NPCs.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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I guess we will have to agree to disagree, since i bet you know which argument i'm going to pull, You will pull the same argument, then it will be my turn and so on, i think we have been in this loop for a while now.

 

So yeah, i guess our argument really ends here.

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I guess we will have to agree to disagree, since i bet you know which argument i'm going to pull, You will pull the same argument, then it will be my turn and so on, i think we have been in this loop for a while now.

 

So yeah, i guess our argument really ends here.

 

Yes, it really does. If only you were able to counter my arguments, we could've kept going.

 

I'll put my argument in a nice little bundle for everyone to see:

 

Assertion: Dungeoneering is a quest with the mechanics of a skill and the rewards system of a minigame.

 

1. Dungeoneering is a quest.

- Dungeoneering is a quest because it presents a problem to solve, a backstory, a plot, a foreseeable conclusion to the story, is full of puzzles, has (multiple) boss fights, and forces the player to utilize his/her skills and ingenuity to progress through the story. Quests often contain at least some of those aspects.

- As with most quest series, the story of Dungeoneering is released in multiple parts.

- The storyline in Dungeoneering is directly related to (and may directly affect) existing storylines in Runescape.

- The story is told via clues found by the player as they descend into Daemonheim, which is a very common storytelling device in nearly all mediums of storytelling.

 

2. Dungeoneering has the mechanics of a skill.

- Each floor of Daemonheim is assigned a level. To progress further, you must raise your levels (with floor 60 being at level 119).

- The prestige system forces the player to repeat floors multiple times on the way to floor 60 (which is unreleased).

 

3. Dungeoneering has the rewards system of a minigame.

- As with most minigames in Runescape, completion of "rounds" (or in Dungeoneering, floors) awards the player with some type of "currency" that can be traded for certain rewards.

 

While not an argument, it's worth noting that Dungeoneering has far more lore, story development, and depth of storyline than most quest series. It is also one of three known plots in Runescape that, if fulfilled, will enact the Edicts of Guthix, destroying us all (the other two plots are Azzanadra's attempt to resurrect Zaros and Lucien's attempt to become a god).

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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1. Dungeoneering is a quest.

- Dungeoneering is a quest because it presents a problem to solve, a backstory, a plot, a foreseeable conclusion to the story, is full of puzzles, has (multiple) boss fights, and forces the player to utilize his/her skills and ingenuity to progress through the story. Quests often contain at least some of those aspects.

- As with most quest series, the story of Dungeoneering is released in multiple parts.

- The storyline in Dungeoneering is directly related to (and may directly affect) existing storylines in Runescape.

- The story is told via clues found by the player as they descend into Daemonheim, which is a very common storytelling device in nearly all mediums of storytelling.

 

- Dungeoneering tells you to keep going through the dungeons. Daemonnheim provides a backstory and a plot that has (possibly) already ended. Boss fights and puzzles that forces you to use your skills are not exclusive to quests, which also uses them to some degree, along with minigames and D&D's

-As with most quests, Daemonheim provides it's story in segments. Daemonheim is not dungeoneering

-The story in Daemonheim is directly related to (and will, most likely, affect) existing storylines in Runescape. Daemonheim is not dungeoneering

- The story is told via clues found by the player as they descend into Daemonheim, which is a very common storytelling device in nearly all mediums of storytelling. Daemonheim is not Dungeoneering.

 

See the difference now? Daemonheim will eventually be a quest area, but not thanks to Dungeoneering. Dungeoneering doesn't have a plot. Daemonheim has a backstory, Dungeoneering is not Daemonheim.

 

Due to this, every single line written in those cronicles, diaries and letters do not belong to Dungeoneering, but to Daemonheim. The skill has no plot. The closest thing to a plot Dungeoneeing has is "We are the Fremnicks, explore the dungeons in trade of rewards". Similar to minigames.

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1. Dungeoneering is a quest.

- Dungeoneering is a quest because it presents a problem to solve, a backstory, a plot, a foreseeable conclusion to the story, is full of puzzles, has (multiple) boss fights, and forces the player to utilize his/her skills and ingenuity to progress through the story. Quests often contain at least some of those aspects.

- As with most quest series, the story of Dungeoneering is released in multiple parts.

- The storyline in Dungeoneering is directly related to (and may directly affect) existing storylines in Runescape.

- The story is told via clues found by the player as they descend into Daemonheim, which is a very common storytelling device in nearly all mediums of storytelling.

 

- Dungeoneering tells you to keep going through the dungeons. Daemonnheim provides a backstory and a plot that has (possibly) already ended. Boss fights and puzzles that forces you to use your skills are not exclusive to quests, which also uses them to some degree, along with minigames and D&D's

-As with most quests, Daemonheim provides it's story in segments. Daemonheim is not dungeoneering

-The story in Daemonheim is directly related to (and will, most likely, affect) existing storylines in Runescape. Daemonheim is not dungeoneering

- The story is told via clues found by the player as they descend into Daemonheim, which is a very common storytelling device in nearly all mediums of storytelling. Daemonheim is not Dungeoneering.

 

See the difference now? Daemonheim will eventually be a quest area, but not thanks to Dungeoneering. Dungeoneering doesn't have a plot. Daemonheim has a backstory, Dungeoneering is not Daemonheim.

 

Due to this, every single line written in those cronicles, diaries and letters do not belong to Dungeoneering, but to Daemonheim. The skill has no plot. The closest thing to a plot Dungeoneeing has is "We are the Fremnicks, explore the dungeons in trade of rewards". Similar to minigames.

 

Lol, semantics. You know you've lost a debate when semantics becomes your main argument.

 

If in my last post I replaced every instance of the word Dungeoneering with Dungeons of Daemonheim, you would have no argument. It doesn't matter what you call it, it's still there, and it's still a quest.

 

Nice try, though.

dgs5.jpg
To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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