Should Endgame Quests Require Awesome Levels?

[Michael]

If jagex ever made another underground pass i would rage.

 

That was one of my favorite quests.

 

It also doesn't require any high stats.

[Troacctid]

I consider Underground Pass to be an example of poor quest design. It punishes the player for way too many random things.

[pulli23]

I consider Underground Pass to be an example of poor quest design. It punishes the player for way too many random things.

And I actually see it as an example of very good quest design:

 

You're not dependent on "take item Y to point C, and solve puzzle X which has nothing to do but I just like to give it to you" type of quest..

You're given a task at start (beat the problem that is in the center of a passage), and then slowly progress towards the end.. The quest was a "complete" experience and you never had to go back outside the quest to gather things or take things - everything is handed to you inside the dungeon!

 

I consider the follow up quest (roving elves) to be much worse: first you have to go through everything again to find a person (not too bad), but then suddenly mid-way you have to do it again.. And again. And in the end it was all just a task-list of: hey deliver this package to .... for me. You didn't get the feeling you were "in" the quest!

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

I consider Underground Pass to be an example of poor quest design. It punishes the player for way too many random things.

And I actually see it as an example of very good quest design:

 

You're not dependent on "take item Y to point C, and solve puzzle X which has nothing to do but I just like to give it to you" type of quest..

You're given a task at start (beat the problem that is in the center of a passage), and then slowly progress towards the end.. The quest was a "complete" experience and you never had to go back outside the quest to gather things or take things - everything is handed to you inside the dungeon!

 

I consider the follow up quest (roving elves) to be much worse: first you have to go through everything again to find a person (not too bad), but then suddenly mid-way you have to do it again.. And again. And in the end it was all just a task-list of: hey deliver this package to .... for me. You didn't get the feeling you were "in" the quest!

 

i see your vew, and it have truth in it.

but i think underpass is a badly made quest. at least in the elf quest, i may not of felt like i was in a quest, but i dident feal like i was in hell (i hate underpass quest sooooooooo much)

 

yes i like the idea of everything required being inside there (say but your levels and food/money you take with you), but its tormenting players becouse thay got bad luck.

failing to do a quest becouse a random number genorator hapens to deside to dislike you for a while = bad. i dont care what you say, my vew of that one line will not change.

where is the skill in clicking a rock and moveing over it, or not.

where is the skill in clicking a opening a chest for a daimond, or not (and loseing your lock pic at the same time).

etc.

 

well on a side note, one good thing comes from underpass, at one point you have the option of skiping a hole room if you got 50 theafing. thats what im talking about!, not required but faster/easier with high skills.

 

hmm, speeking on bad quest design. legends quest. running from a to b does not make a quest. but seamingly running from a to b to c to e to a to e to b to e to c to a...... makes a quest.

[Troacctid]

I consider Underground Pass to be an example of poor quest design. It punishes the player for way too many random things.

And I actually see it as an example of very good quest design:

 

You're not dependent on "take item Y to point C, and solve puzzle X which has nothing to do but I just like to give it to you" type of quest..

You're given a task at start (beat the problem that is in the center of a passage), and then slowly progress towards the end.. The quest was a "complete" experience and you never had to go back outside the quest to gather things or take things - everything is handed to you inside the dungeon!

 

I consider the follow up quest (roving elves) to be much worse: first you have to go through everything again to find a person (not too bad), but then suddenly mid-way you have to do it again.. And again. And in the end it was all just a task-list of: hey deliver this package to .... for me. You didn't get the feeling you were "in" the quest!

What? You need hella random [cabbage] to get through the pass. First you need a bow and arrows, then you need rope, and a spade. And if you forget anything, or if you run out of food, you have to go all the way back. I mean, yeah, it did some things right--it's a legitimately creepy environment with great atmosphere, even though the graphics are outdated now, and the story is pretty good. But mechanically, there's actually a lot of fetching, and most of the challenge comes from random chance in the form of agility obstacles. IMO, the Curse of Arrav sewers are what Underground Pass should have been.

 

I consider most of the rest of the Plague City line (exception being Within the Light) to be examples of poor quest design as well, so I won't argue with you on Roving Elves.

[pulli23]

I consider Underground Pass to be an example of poor quest design. It punishes the player for way too many random things.

And I actually see it as an example of very good quest design:

 

You're not dependent on "take item Y to point C, and solve puzzle X which has nothing to do but I just like to give it to you" type of quest..

You're given a task at start (beat the problem that is in the center of a passage), and then slowly progress towards the end.. The quest was a "complete" experience and you never had to go back outside the quest to gather things or take things - everything is handed to you inside the dungeon!

 

I consider the follow up quest (roving elves) to be much worse: first you have to go through everything again to find a person (not too bad), but then suddenly mid-way you have to do it again.. And again. And in the end it was all just a task-list of: hey deliver this package to .... for me. You didn't get the feeling you were "in" the quest!

 

i see your vew, and it have truth in it.

but i think underpass is a badly made quest. at least in the elf quest, i may not of felt like i was in a quest, but i dident feal like i was in hell (i hate underpass quest sooooooooo much)

 

yes i like the idea of everything required being inside there (say but your levels and food/money you take with you), but its tormenting players becouse thay got bad luck.

failing to do a quest becouse a random number genorator hapens to deside to dislike you for a while = bad. i dont care what you say, my vew of that one line will not change.

where is the skill in clicking a rock and moveing over it, or not.

where is the skill in clicking a opening a chest for a daimond, or not (and loseing your lock pic at the same time).

etc.

 

well on a side note, one good thing comes from underpass, at one point you have the option of skiping a hole room if you got 50 theafing. thats what im talking about!, not required but faster/easier with high skills.

 

hmm, speeking on bad quest design. legends quest. running from a to b does not make a quest. but seamingly running from a to b to c to e to a to e to b to e to c to a...... makes a quest.

Legends quest is "relic" quest from the very beginning of runescape....

 

Also, strangely I only went out once to gather items.. And (with 60 agility) back then I failed only 7-8 times. - But this also added amazing excitement (I was really happy for the few stews I gained, it was exactly enough).. - Also isn't this a good example of quests which get easier with higher (agility) levels? (with 65+ it was peanuts when I went through it for mep 2, and now with 80 I simply don't have to think at all).