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Bone Crusher


Knoll_Saleh
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Its a time saver, so i would get it if i wanted prayer xp.

Nah, we just discussed this. This is only true in the unlikely circumstance that you have super-high dungeoneering already and have spare tokens coming out the wazoo, but also that you have prayer low enough that the xp actually matters. Otherwise, it's much too expensive for its effect, and a net waste of time.

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I know this thread is about bonecrushers, but a benefit to the herbicide is that when fighting monsters with high herb drop rates (turoths, aberrants) you don't have to sift through all the herbs on the ground to get the good ones, you can tick the herbs you don't want and pick the rest up.

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I know this thread is about bonecrushers, but a benefit to the herbicide is that when fighting monsters with high herb drop rates (turoths, aberrants) you don't have to sift through all the herbs on the ground to get the good ones, you can tick the herbs you don't want and pick the rest up.

 

Do you left click to pick up drops?

 

Anyways, I think the Bonecrusher's bonus Prayer EXP is simply too low. It would be viable if it gave a bonus to exp, but right now it just doesn't seem normal bones add up fast enough to justify 340k Dung EXP.

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Okay thanks guy! I don't think I'm gunna get one now, either save my tokens or get the scroll of what ever (For farming) ? any ideas with that?

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[hide=tl-dr below, but here is the proof of whats stated there]Consider that, on a GOOD team, the average large dungeon is 40 minutes for ~6k tokens. Thus, you need 5.67 hours to get all the tokens. If you also consider time it would take to rush through the early floors and leave some room for error, you could round that up to 6 hours. So it takes 6 hours to get Bonecrusher/Herbicide.

 

Anyone can make 1m/hr, so at MINIMUM, you are paying 6m for that bonecrusher or herbicide, and unlike items, you cannot sell them back.

 

Then consider that the bonecrusher is really only going to be working on bones and big bones, with a bias toward bones, so let's say the average bone you crush gets you 7-8 prayer xp.

 

For 6m, you can get nearly 400k prayer xp with dbones. That's equivalent to about 57k bones. Ask yourself, are you going to go kill 57k monsters? If the average slayer task is 170 monsters, that's 335 slayer tasks, and then consider that for all dragon tasks you won't want it active, and most slayer monsters don't even drop bones of any kind. Suddenly, you may find yourself needing double that amount of slayer tasks (about 700 tasks) to merely make the bonecrusher a worthwhile buy. If you assume each task gives 20k slayer xp, you'll find that you have more than enough xp to get 99 slayer.

 

All for 400k prayer xp that you can achieve in about 2 hours?

 

And remember, that's if you're relatively poor and can only make 1m per hour. Good players, especially those with 99 slayer, can get as high as 2m or 3m per hour, and I've heard even 5m per hour. Assuming a "modest" 3m per hour, you pay 18m for the bonecrusher, equal to over 1.1m prayer xp, or 161k+ monsters and 1.9k slayer tasks required to "pay-off" the bonecrusher. That's 38m slayer xp. Any idea how LONG that's going to take you?

 

A lot longer than the 4-5 hours needed to get 1.1m prayer xp, I'll tell you that.

 

Herbicide is similar. If you take away herbs that you don't want to burn (lantadymes, irit, kwuarm, ranarr, etc) that's an average of about 21 herb xp per herb burnt. If you are paying 18m for the herbicide, that's about 600k herblore xp you want to compensate for. That means you are going to need over 67k herb drops to pay off the herbicide (after considering that not every herb drop will be one you want to burn). Even if you killed Aberrant Spectres all day and every single drop was an herb drop, that would take you hundreds of hours to complete, and you can get 600k herb xp in less than 2 hours with Overloads, and in about 7-8 hours with prayer potions.

 

And this is assuming you always have a good, sub-40 minute large team and your prestige is near maxed!. For example, if you used w117 teams, which take about 75 minutes per large, the cost you pay for the bonecrusher/herbicide nearly doubles, and thus you near double the time to pay off buying it. If you only have 35 prestige, you'll only average about 4k tokens per dungeon, and thus you'll need over 33% more time.

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tl;dr

I can't think of a single reason why you would want it. It's a remarkable waste of tokens, a hassle to bring to training/slayer locations (upsetting otherwise perfect setups and forfeiting some drops because you need 1 more invent space), and a waste of time and money. You could say "it makes life easier", but it really doesn't. You need HUNDREDS of hours to justify spending those tokens. Ask yourself, is it easier to spend 2 hours getting the xp it's going to give you in hundreds? Or are you going to go through the hassle of completing lesser floors, finding a team, dealing with noobs on the team, finally saving up enough tokens in over 10/15, maybe even 20 hours of Dungeoneering (considering you are level 45), then go out to kill ____ monster or slay for hundreds of hours just for the pleasure of "not having to pick up and bury bones", a skill that you can do ANYWAY?

 

Of course, this entire argument is moot if you have enough tokens that you bought Chaotic Rapier, Chaotic Maul, Chaotic Crossbow, Scroll of Life, Rigour, Augury, and Chaotic Staff, all of which are better buys (heck, nearly everything is a better buy, but those are the most useful) than Herbicide/Bonecrusher. Getting all of those items easily lands you at about ~93 Dungeoneering. If you have over 93 Dungeoneering and got enough tokens to take your daily bath in, go for it.

 

Otherwise, to hell with it.

Aah, but you forgot one thing (that I could see)

For the 6 hours training DG, you could make the cash to get 400k pray xp, yes? Then it takes 2 hours to use a gilded altar to actually get the xp. So, in total, it doesn't take 2 hours to "get" the xp, it takes around 8. And that's if you're only making 1m an hour.

However, I do have to agree with you in saying that the only time you get a bonecrusher is when you have enough tokens that you could wallpaper the entire internet.

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Well, the xp was just for comparisons sake, the real thing you are saving is money. I just translated it into xp so it can be better understood.

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The bonecrusher is also nice for some hunting activities. For example to collect my weekly strange rocks I do falconry, the bonecrusher saves me the time to bury (drop?) the bones.

 

But honestly, how many people train hunter outside of Chinchompas and Salamanders, neither of which drops bones. If I'm going to catch kebbits/bone dropers, the xp/money I'm giving up by not catching chins or sallys alone is more than enough to counteract the small prayer xp (like no more than a few hundred per hour).

 

And for strange rocks, how many do you catch per week? 100? That's 450 prayer xp per week. If you make 1m/hr and need 400k prayer xp to pay off the bonecrusher, you'll need 880 weeks to make the bonecrusher worth it. That's 22 times the amount of time needed to get the full statue.

 

I know this thread is about bonecrushers, but a benefit to the herbicide is that when fighting monsters with high herb drop rates (turoths, aberrants) you don't have to sift through all the herbs on the ground to get the good ones, you can tick the herbs you don't want and pick the rest up.

 

I've mentioned that last page as well. You would need hundreds of hours of killing Aberrant Spectres to pay-off the herbicide. You may to consider that most of the herbs you are burning are low level, thus the average xp/herb is 21 (not burning irits+ in terms of value). Also, you have to consider that not every herb drop will be burnt, and since only 5/12 or 13 are being burnt, you would need over double the drops. THEN you have to consider that you won't even get an herb drop every time. Of course, you can get double and triple drops from Aberrant Spectres, but who is going to camp there for hundreds of hours just to pay off the herbicide?

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Don't get it! 1) Some monsters drop ashes, 2) You should pick up dragon bones/valuable bones, 3) It's slow XP! Not worth the effort for tokens unless you have all chaotic weapons + arcane stream necklace!

 

Example: 1 hellhound task of 250 = approximately 1,000 prayer XP

Then again, so is only FOUR green dragon kills.

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To be honest, I think for both the bone crusher and the herbicide they need to either drastically reduce the cost or super buff the benefits. I've played with the ideas of:

 

BC

1. Gives 2x xp for all small and big bones. 1.5 multiplier for all other bones.

2. 10k token cost at the very most

 

Or some combination of the two

 

So for a player killing chickens, if we assume they take around 1.5 seconds per kill (actual attack time, moving from chicken to chicken, occasional misses), it maxes out at around 21k pray an hour, which is like saving 440k and hour. However it's possible to find an uncrowded hill giants worlds and slaughter them there.

 

Herbicide

 

1. Gives cleaning xp AND x% of the xp of the best potion you can make with that herb at your level. If you don't have the level to use the herb, you get nothing.

 

 

This would ramp up pretty nicely and stay balanced depending on the % bonus.

 

And while we're on the subject of stupendously overpriced and almost useless items, can we make the magical blastbox at least save runes or something?

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I doubt doubling the xp would do very much to the Bonecrusher.

 

Although 10k tokens is only 2 hours eg. 2m minimum, ~130k prayer xp to gain to pay it off. If BOTH the bonecrusher's suggested effects were added, then MAYBE.

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I know this thread is about bonecrushers, but a benefit to the herbicide is that when fighting monsters with high herb drop rates (turoths, aberrants) you don't have to sift through all the herbs on the ground to get the good ones, you can tick the herbs you don't want and pick the rest up.

 

Do you left click to pick up drops?

No, the main attraction is not having to constantly check and re-check the piles with a guam leaf on top to see if a ranarr dropped underneath it, which is an annoyance when cannoning specs. *shrug*

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Considering that convenience, you have to ask yourself: "is this ability worth paying over 18m for?". It's a similar story with finishing blows in slayer. You pay 1m in slayer dart runes for it, and you have to ask yourself whether it is worth it or not.

 

If you say yes, by all means. But at least you knew what you were getting yourself into, as opposed to the kid who says: "oo herbicide! I never have to worry about leaving guams on the floor again!" or "bonecrusher! That xp is gonna add up to a lot!"

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To be honest, I think for both the bone crusher and the herbicide they need to either drastically reduce the cost or super buff the benefits. I've played with the ideas of:

 

BC

1. Gives 2x xp for all small and big bones. 1.5 multiplier for all other bones.

2. 10k token cost at the very most

 

Or some combination of the two

 

So for a player killing chickens, if we assume they take around 1.5 seconds per kill (actual attack time, moving from chicken to chicken, occasional misses), it maxes out at around 21k pray an hour, which is like saving 440k and hour. However it's possible to find an uncrowded hill giants worlds and slaughter them there.

 

I agree with you in principle.

 

However, a chicken every 1.5 seconds is 40 chickens a minute (not 90), 2400 chickens an hour. That works out to 2400 bones @ 4.5 per = 10800 prayer xp per hour, right?

 

The problem with the item is the limited opportunities for use.

 

When I go stake out Hillies for Champion scrolls, I figure I can kill 4 or 5 a minute (conservatively, mostly held back by respawn time). Let's say that's 250 bones, or 3750 prayer xp/hr. That gets a little bit better at jogres (5625 xp/hr).

 

Camping at baby blacks (for effigies) is a possibility; but I can't give a reasonable guess as to xp/hr. Three a minute would come out to 5400 xp/hr. Any bones more higher leveled than this I would sell or use on my gilded.

 

Now, if bones suddenly got cheap and it became more economically worthwhile to use the crusher at dragons and such, then maybe the price would be justified.

 

One other possibility would be to make the bonecrusher help out with shade burning - say you get your keys automagically with the bc in your pack instead of the convoluted log oiling / altar burning routine. This, combined with the xp rates for shades, would make the crusher more worthwhile and breathe a little life back into an older area.

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But honestly, how many people train hunter outside of Chinchompas and Salamanders, neither of which drops bones. If I'm going to catch kebbits/bone dropers, the xp/money I'm giving up by not catching chins or sallys alone is more than enough to counteract the small prayer xp (like no more than a few hundred per hour).

 

And for strange rocks, how many do you catch per week? 100? That's 450 prayer xp per week. If you make 1m/hr and need 400k prayer xp to pay off the bonecrusher, you'll need 880 weeks to make the bonecrusher worth it. That's 22 times the amount of time needed to get the full statue.

Catching kebbits is faster than salamanders or chinchompas to get 69-80 hunter. With a bonecrusher it is even more xp/hr. Also, it is much easier to find an empty world. So yea, I don't know why people don't train on them.

 

Edit: I am not saying the bonecrusher is worth it. Just tossing in an extra feature of the bonecrusher.

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But honestly, how many people train hunter outside of Chinchompas and Salamanders, neither of which drops bones. If I'm going to catch kebbits/bone dropers, the xp/money I'm giving up by not catching chins or sallys alone is more than enough to counteract the small prayer xp (like no more than a few hundred per hour).

 

And for strange rocks, how many do you catch per week? 100? That's 450 prayer xp per week. If you make 1m/hr and need 400k prayer xp to pay off the bonecrusher, you'll need 880 weeks to make the bonecrusher worth it. That's 22 times the amount of time needed to get the full statue.

Catching kebbits is faster than salamanders or chinchompas to get 69-80 hunter. With a bonecrusher it is even more xp/hr. Also, it is much easier to find an empty world. So yea, I don't know why people don't train on them.

 

Edit: I am not saying the bonecrusher is worth it. Just tossing in an extra feature of the bonecrusher.

 

I understand that, but I'm saying that even in hunter, it is far from worth it.

 

If kebbits are as fast as you say they are, how come no one trains on them? Can kebbits get over 100k per hour, like Salamanders can? I've yet to see anyone provide solid xp/hr rates of any kebbit, and I've never seen them recommended by anyone to train hunter on.

 

Finding an empty world isn't an issue. For red sallys, you could just hunt iceberg penguins for the same xp with no crowds. For chins, just use the surround method for more catches per hour AND a far lesser need to compete for spawns.

 

If you can catch about 450 red salamanders an hour, that's 2k prayer xp, IF they dropped bones. They don't. How many kebbits can you catch per hour? It's going to be around 2k, if not less. 2k prayer xp is literally a few seconds, 6 dragon bones, and 31k.

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Actively slaying i lost 100k prayer exp in 2 months (3 tasks/day average) by not having a crusher.

 

You figure out for yourself if that's worth it.

 

Reason i'm not getting one is cause i'm saving up for a rapier, i think i'll get it within the next 3 years, i'm at 36k tokens atm and DUNG REEKS OF POO!

Anyway if you aren't saving up for anything and you don't hate dung as much as me and you also kill lots of metals and fire giants and whatnot then get a crusher.

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How do you know it's 100k?

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And every monster dropped bones? I find it hard to believe that you do 3 tasks per day AND all of those tasks drop bones.

 

You mean you never kill Demons, Nechs, Dragons, Kalphites, etc.? You have to consider the crucial fact that roughly half of the viable tasks even drop bones, and you will not want to use the Bonecrusher during Dragon tasks since it's a waste of money (except, perhaps, if you don't bank the bones anyway or are killing Baby Dragons).

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Why do people always have to drag it down to detailed numbered and extreme efficiency things? I bought a bonecrusher because:

 

a) I like Dungeoneering, so I didn't mind getting the tokens.

b) I don't like spending the little money I have on ridiculously expensive dragon bones.

c) It just makes things simpler when slaying.

 

The bonecrusher caters to laziness and sometimes it's nice to have something for the sake of it not just because it's efficient.

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If you are looking at efficiency (which I imagine you are since you asked if it's worth your time), then no, it is not worth the time/tokens spent for the ability given by the bonecrusher.

 

If you are interested in the bonecrusher for any reason aside from efficiency (visual appeal maybe?) then I suppose it's your call.

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Why do people always have to drag it down to detailed numbered and extreme efficiency things? I bought a bonecrusher because:

 

a) I like Dungeoneering, so I didn't mind getting the tokens.

b) I don't like spending the little money I have on ridiculously expensive dragon bones.

c) It just makes things simpler when slaying.

 

The bonecrusher caters to laziness and sometimes it's nice to have something for the sake of it not just because it's efficient.

 

Because you can't quantify "laziness", "preference" and such things. So if you want to determine whether something is worth it, it's not logical to use something you can't quantify.

 

Of course, instead, they act as override attributes. I can go on all day about whether or not the Bonecrusher is worth it, but if you WANT to get it, none of that matters, and getting it is instantly worth it. Mathematically, it's not worth the time or effort, but if you can justify getting it based on your personal preferences, it's good to go.

 

The fact of the matter is, unless you can go to efficiency, math, and solid numbers, the entire thread consists of this: "if you don't want to spend the effort to pick up bones, get the bonecrusher". And there's nothing else to it.

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