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Tip.It Times - 5th September 2010


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#41
jettrider
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If I had known attendance was mainly dominated by the higher leveled, more mature, and fun-loving that actually went, I admit I would have showed more interest. I still would not have been able to attend, but I have to say that Jagex did a VERY good job planning the ticket process so that the turnout wouldn't be "noobs."

It was a big gamble, but they got away with both the ticket pricing/reduction scheme AND managed to surpass the highest expectations. I think TS Stormrage has every right to write those couple of sentences. Jagex managed to weed out both inexperienced players and players uncomfortable connecting RuneScape with RL. To clarify, I was not there; I for one would be mortified to be seen in the queue even with lots of other people there :unsure: They did miss some people who couldn't attend based on location or timing, but the ones that did go were the right ones.

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#42
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Say I wanted to submit something for the DYK, how would I do that?

Also going to read them articles now.


You can message Mirrorforced and submit DYKs, it's who I contacted to message some of mine.
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#43
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75 pounds ain't all that much to worry about anyway!


Is it not? That pays for more than a week's rent for me...

To Stormrage:
I live in London and had no desire to go, for a number of reasons.

Yes, I did stereotype the sort of people that would be there - perhaps rightly, according to your withering report most definitely wrongly. But that is my sole grievance with this account - the rant. I enjoyed reading about the event which I had hitherto written off as a waste of a day, when all of a sudden I was confronted with a vitriolic broadside. It was out of character with the rest of the article, which clearly promoted the sense of community engendered in the event's participants, serving no useful purpose at all. It is your opinion that it was not a geekfest, an opinion that is perfectly valid and you are entitled to. But what was the point of striking out at people who suspected that the only people willing to pay £75 would be the diehard (read: "geeky") fans? For the sake of an argument, how are we to know that you're not simply a complete geek yourself?!

A further factor was the cost: to many, £75 may seem a small price to pay for such an event. To me it seemed overpriced and unnecessary. I do not like to throw money around when it could be better spent elsewhere, as I judged it could be, so I didn't. Even if it had been advertised as a free event I suspect I would not have gone, because it really didn't interest me that much. I would not ever have use for a T-Shirt bearing a Runescape slogan, nor do I have particular need of any of the other free gifts given out. My knowledge of programming is not sufficient that I would be likely to care much about the "making of" style talks, whilst I rarely have time to think of things I'd like to see in the game to take my suggestions along. I have never had any desire to dress up as a gaming character. So you see, it just wasn't the right event for me. MMG's allusion that only the most devoted and ardent fans would attend because of the price is foolish - it deliberately and unfairly cut out many fans who are genuinely without the disposable income for the travel and advertised ticket price, purely by an arbitrary monetary figure.

I fully realise that the main focus of the rant was on people who had been vociferously criticising the event, the company and the punters rather than myself, but it spoilt the article and failed to take into account the many reasons people may have had for such criticism in the first place. Maybe it was jealousy, does it matter? Could you not rise above it? Could you not ignore the critics?

Up until your pointless rant I had been impressed at how well-run the event sounded and how much fun you and your fellow participants had.

Edit: Sorry to say, but your abusive responses to tortilliachip on page 2 of this discussion topic seem to suggest nothing of his/her own jealousy, rather that you carry a COLLOSSAL chip on your shoulder because of the alleged stereotyping that has occurred. Apparently the tolerant and respectful response to your tirades must surely be "Shut the hell up!". Still, at least you said "please"...


2nd Article:

This is boring to me now. Why is level hunting so popular, you ask? Well, because it gives players a tangible aim and a means to compare and compete. Simple as that. Sure, I agree that the grind approach seems to be missing the point, but who are we to judge what is fun for other people? If they get their kicks from having a better level than someone else and that constitutes entertainment in their eyes, surely that achieves the very same as your ideas on what "fun" is?

Clans, for example, offer many of the group collaboration/"fun" events that you mentioned. Even solo players can interact and perform activities with their friends, the opportunity is theirs to take. If they don't take it, so be it, but is there really any point in criticising someone else just because they don't play in the way that you, in your seat of Godly wisdom, deem best?

#44
das
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I reply as a collector, a frequent attendee of Sports Card and Memorabilia conventions and Comic cons.

I must say, I found parts of the article downright rude, and shortsighted and elitist at best.

I'm going to address a few of your comments


You were not there, and if you truly believed it would be the entire cast plus extra's from "Revenge of the Nerds" attending the event, you were probably not wanted there anyway.


I've been to countless cons - Sports ones typically are a bunch of men dressed in jerseys with deep wallets and it looks exactly like a sporting event, for the most part, those are not bad, but the sterotypes about sweaty fat guys who smell being at sports card shows? yep? poor hygiene? yep. Those shows bring out the best and worst in the community for dealers and collectors, but my main counterpoint is a comic con. People often dress up and at the last one, you saw everything from Ash (Army of darkness, not the pokemon guy) to Ghostbusters to some winged creature from Labyrinth or dark crystal. Are the conventions full of awesome people? Yes, i've met some cool people at cons, but i've also had enough with other people (iE: People who do not share your interests or women in general) to know a large majority of people would label your average con goer - a nerd, and you know what? we are nerds, and we don't care. I can honestly say i've never seen someone so defensive over a con sterotype. You went to a video game con, you're a nerd, period. stop trying to convince yourself that you're not, because it's a sterotype that comes with con-going. I have to confess, the thought of a runescape con, even made me shudder considering the demographic, and i've seen some pretty crazy anime and comic cons.

It reeks of jealousy, get over it.

Actually typically labeling from con's comes from fairly accurate stereotypes and misunderstandings more than anything.


It also gets tiresome to listen to people saying "I would've gone if I knew it was free".


You must not do many cons, at all. Lets take a look at dragoncon, two hours away from me, had some nice guests like Brandon Routh and Summer Glau - but I didn't go because it would of been $50 to get in on Saturday, The day I could go...Before you call me poor, or a cheapass, let it be known money isn't a thing with me, since I spent triple that between Star Wars Celebration 5, and a nice vintage milla jovovich autograph in the past month knowing full well both guests would be at Dragoncon. Why? Because Dragoncons guest list wasn't strong enough for my interests to get me into the door for the fee. It was a poor opportunity cost to attend.
Some points to consider.
1) Most con's publish the events and itinerary, perks and features well in advance. Example?
http://www.pitofhorror.com/campblood/ <- thats may 2011 with pretty much a finalized guestlist. The end result, I've already set aside some cash in my collecting budget for may 2011. The price for runefest, was steep for a con thats in it's first year with so many vague details, as an avid con-goer - if the thing would of been held an hour from me - I would of waited for details before buying the ticket. I can't blame people for doing that, I also can't blame people for being miffed they refunded the price or made it free. It's a tough economy for some, and the collecting market is feeling the pinch as prices are lower than normal and people are spending less, Had dragoncon of been free, I would of went, but at $50? the opportunity cost just wasn't worth it at all considering I can maximize my collection AND entertainment with known quantities. Blindly pissing away money to support a venue or new con is beyond stupid.


Shut the hell up!


Why should they? I went to a fun smaller con a few months prior, and heard lots of people complaining who were new to conventions, Did I get annoyed? nope, it happens as people encounter and experience things for the first time or two. Perhaps you should lighten the hell up.


~Das
"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."
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#45
pingu2k4
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stormrage! i know who you are from RF now.

I really thouroughly enjoyed RF. My only regret is not having enough time both before and after RF. I was working until 4am the morning of RF (in cardiff) and didnt have a place to stay the night so ahd to catch my last train home just as RF finished.

next year thats a mistake i will not repeat however.

If anyone was thinking of going this year but ended up not going, then please take the chance next year if you can. Ive not heard a bad review of the day from anyone. perhaps some improvement points... EG storage space as mentoned in the times... but other than that it was a brilliant day, and the attention to detail was astounding. :)

(btw stormrrage, im pingu--2k6 from the clan chat. spoke to you the other day there.)
im a penguin ^^

#46
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I'd like to say that Runefest was a one-of-a-kind experience for me, and it was lovely to meet you TS Stormrage.

The attendees of Runefest were far from making it a nerdfest, it was a collection of very diverse people who all share the same interest in Runescape, and were there to have a brilliant time. :)

Brilliant summary of Runefest, and I hope from all the pictures , videos and articles that players read/see/watch, that more players would be more inclined to attend! It is honestly worth every penny!

Cheers! Eggman :D


Get out of here Eggy. :)

=D> The random event box was .......(no word to describe it) =D> but sorry the article does not do Runefest justice it was more like we had become our characters and jumped into the pc screen for the day. Yes we were all nerds running round in real life looking for hidden penguin spys. Having said that I would not have missed meeting everyone for the world. :thumbsup:

#47
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For the achievement one: This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot lately, so I was somewhat excited to see an article written on it. But alas, it's just another person complaining and reminiscing about "the good ol' days" or whatever.

Sorry if this seems like spam, I know I've barely posted on these forums but I really wanted to get that out.

#48
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my opinion on the settling of scores and making of mistakes remains. I clearly understood what you wrote, and your neccessary clarifications due to difuse use of English to convey your point. I have no clue where you insinuate that I wished to go to runefest, feel any need to insult those of you who chose going to runefest or feel the out-lash in your article was aimed at me.
I feel insulted because a publication of a high standard (and to which i've contributed) lashes out at a third party.

That third party happens to be a considerable part of the demographic of RuneScape (just check out some of the topics on the Runefest forums). If it was just a hand full of people I would not have addressed the issue at all, but a lot of RuneFest go-ers I have spoken with are quite anoyed by the people I "lashed out at".

for your futher comment on the "genre" of your piece as compared to others, i present you with basic criteria for features: http://en.wikipedia....i/Feature_story
i find it degrading that you assume i see a "best article competition" on the event, again you assume the worst of me. however, i expect all pieces published in the tip.it times to hold a high journalistic standard, just as the rest of tip.it holds a higher standard than these forums.

I'm sorry you find the need to personally insult me for sharing my opinion on your article. Isn't the sharing of honest opinion the form of a discussion topic?

Regardless if you find it degrading or not, your comment of "Tip.it being beaten at their own game" has competition written all over it, so at least on that part, I did asume that of you.
But despite the fact that many people still like to think so, the Tip.it Times is not an actual newspaper. We may aspire to have comparable quality, but I know that none of the current writers are on that level, despite the best of efforts. We are not professionals, and write merely for the enjoyment of others. You may not like what you read, but many others do and that is all that matters.



Apparently, some people feel that the rant bit is out of place in the article. You are perhaps right, but it is that emotion that comes up with many RuneFest go-ers when another idiot trolls up to the RuneFest forums, demanding he deserves a Flagstaff too. The same emotions that wash over you when you just planted that same Flagstaff, and people come up to you and start insulting you, calling you nerd, geek, loser or whatever, when they are enjoying the very same game that caused you to decide to go to Runefest. The same goes for the numerous people claiming to have gone if it was free.

I understand money is an issue to some. It is even an issue to me, but I had decided on making the trip to London my holiday for the year anyways. Could Jagex have handled things a little more sensitivly? Yes, I even said so in my article. But I am reminded of a giant festival in my own country. Lowlands (one of europe's biggest) has sold out all of its 70k tickets only three days after ticket sales opened up, without a single band having been anounced to be playing there. Why? Because people know the festival, just in the same way that we know Jagex. Jagex needed to to seperate wheat from chaff some how, and I tend to agree that they did indeed need to. That will without a doubt unleash the comments of elitism, but I can guarantee you that a lot of RuneFesters will agree (so aim those comments to Jagex as well?). And Das, even without you having been at RuneFest, or me having been to some of your cons, you will agree there is a difference between Revenge of the Nerds-type nerds, and the people that attend these cons.

I'm sorry if people felt personally insulted by the rant, most likely it was not even aimed at you. As I said, you are perhaps right that it does not fit with the article, but I felt it neccisary to address the issue, even though it may never properly reach the type of people it was aimed at.

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#49
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I must say, I found parts of the article downright rude, and shortsighted and elitist at best.

As a forum user, and not a forum admin, I agree with that statement. The rant may have had its place in a topic regarding runefest, but on the website in the middle of an article? Completely out of place and unwarranted in my opinion. :mellow:
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#50
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Before I continue with the After-party and the Goodbye-party, I'd like to give a special comment to the people who claim this was GeekFest, the people that claimed they would've gone if they knew it was free, the people that demand a Flagstaff be released for everyone, and even the people that complained that the prices of the food and drinks were too high.

Shut the hell up! Please. You were not there, and if you truly believed it would be the entire cast plus extra's from "Revenge of the Nerds" attending the event, you were probably not wanted there anyway. It reeks of jealousy, get over it.


sorry, i don't read the tip.it times for this lowly settling-of-scores by a "reflected author" who makes mistakes on purpose because "it should make you read it twice..."


get over yourself. I don't see any reason why your articles should be chain-published to feed your ego. Den's contributions to the runefest thread makes me wonder why he wasn't the one to write the tip.it times article on the topic (I'll freely assume he wasn't asked, it was invariably " your job").

sorry, articles from other locations (Hi Stokenut and WG) were already published in August, were more personal accounts of the happenings, and to put it bluntly, better reads. tip.it times beaten at their own game...




If you have a yak, you know the DYK. if you don't have a yak, fewer know that an imp can bank two items, also from pvp worlds, with (i believe) 71 hunter.

Way to sound like a [bleep]ing [bleep] Nacho trying to have a go at someone who writes articles for free for the amusement of others. Before you go bashing his work how about we see some of yours? Let me put it "bluntly", your a person who feels everything they think is automatically correct, if someone says something your the first to jump in and "correct" them. Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself and stop having a go at other people, [bleep]ing moron.

He shouldn't keep his opinions for himself. He's got as much right to speak up his opinions as you do. It's you who should ignore his post if you're only interested in reading arguments defending the article when you open this thread.

I do partly agree with tortilliachp.

This is boring to me now. Why is level hunting so popular, you ask? Well, because it gives players a tangible aim and a means to compare and compete. Simple as that. Sure, I agree that the grind approach seems to be missing the point, but who are we to judge what is fun for other people? If they get their kicks from having a better level than someone else and that constitutes entertainment in their eyes, surely that achieves the very same as your ideas on what "fun" is?

Clans, for example, offer many of the group collaboration/"fun" events that you mentioned. Even solo players can interact and perform activities with their friends, the opportunity is theirs to take. If they don't take it, so be it, but is there really any point in criticising someone else just because they don't play in the way that you, in your seat of Godly wisdom, deem best?

Why are you assuming that people are grinding for the fun of it? The whole point of the article is that they don't do it for the fun of it, or at least it's not their main goal. You can very well tell that these people aim for some kind of "ultimate account" which they plan using for fun later on, but they never get to the part where they have fun.

No, we shouldn't care about how people like to have fun. But we should start caring when those people start having way too much influence in the progress of the game. See how it's becoming more elitist because of these elite diaries, and a level 120 skill? That's the problem. The game should remain as accessible as possible to everyone who pays for it and therefore contributes to its improvement, and not manipulated by hardcore players/no-lifers that whine all the time just because they can't find anything else to do in real life.

You have the freedom to enjoy the game the way you want. But your freedom still ends where other people's freedom begins.

For the achievement one: This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot lately, so I was somewhat excited to see an article written on it. But alas, it's just another person complaining and reminiscing about "the good ol' days" or whatever.

Sorry if this seems like spam, I know I've barely posted on these forums but I really wanted to get that out.

And you've also barely read the article, this is actuallity I'm dealing with. Don't expect me to take into account random bashing for the lulz.
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#51
Steel_Artist
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I haven't read the first article but I pretty much agree with the 2nd. I think skillcapes are to blame for it, because they honestly did do more harm then good. Many people just get 99's just for the 99 now :mellow: All of mines was gotten for a reason.

However; I am guilty of playing for efficiency, but I don't find it harming any fun in the game. It allows me to get to the fun parts faster; which for me, is mostly minigames and pking. I hunt for a hour or 2, then go on a pking trip or do some barraging in cw or something. I've been training dun lately though for the ASN.

#52
das
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Why? Because people know the festival, just in the same way that we know Jagex. Jagex needed to to seperate wheat from chaff some how

I have the luxury of knowing multiple people who book cons. Great people, typically great shows, but I can honestly say typically only San Diego Comic Con has a big enough name for people to rush in blind, and thats with a decade of dominance. as a 9 year player, had the con been on my side of the pond, I can tell you Jagex doesn't inspire $75, or $50 worth of confidence to buy in blind. Just because you can make a game, doesn't mean you can do a convention. Backwards logic.


And Das, even without you having been at RuneFest, or me having been to some of your cons, you will agree there is a difference between Revenge of the Nerds-type nerds, and the people that attend these cons.


Oh?

I remember one person going completely berserk after he must have thought that his in game account was going to get that Party Hat.


I'm sure other things happened to fulfill those sterotypes ;)
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#53
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Many thanks for the review of Runefest, I couldn't get time off work or I would have been there myself. It seemed like it would have been the kind of event that I wanted it to be, about bringing together like minded people in a fun place, with no shame in being a 'Scaper.

Which brings me to the second article. I too remember hanging out in the blue moon just chatting around with players rather than playing the game. I do kinda miss those days, I enjoyed the game more. I think I'd been a member for about 18 months before I heard about Tip.it, it never occured to me that you wouldn't try the quests without a guide. Back in those days, everyone who played was a guide. Players would hang around after finishing a quest to help someone who was just starting it, it was almost a kind of 'quest etiquette'.

Whilst I still think that playing the game to achieve a goal is a good thing, it does mean that other aspects of the game are being missed out on. If all you are doing is grinding on Yews, I hope you're happy with your cape. But there's more to Runescape (and life) than toil.
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#54
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The first half of this article is essentially needless commentary that would fail even the most basic English Lit paper. So you went for an Indian? Nice... who hasn't? I don't get what that has to do with RuneFest.

And then, when I think you're about to give an opinion of RuneFest and move out of descriptive mode, you open some huge tirade about people who stereotype gamers conventions. An issue that has about as much to do with RuneFest as Classic.FM does to a Muse concert, an issue based on social pseudo-paranoia, and an issue which frankly I find ridiculous. People judge other people. It's a fact of life, and thank goodness it is or else our existance would be pretty damn boring. If you go to a convention for an MMORPG with loads of people dressed as Elves and Dwarves, be prepared for people to laugh at you and suggest you're not completely grounded in reality, or that you don't necessarily fit into the 'norm' of society. It's a common sense association.

You may as well argue that the Sun shouldn't rise in the morning, because you're fighting against a naturally-occuring inevitability. Aside from this, it has nothing to do with RuneFest and I don't understand why felt a need to write about it, except maybe a deeply-embedded fear of people judging you for gaming that was brought out by the experience of being at a convention and no one there apparently judging you, which actually, you mentioned in about paragraph two.

Can I suggest maybe removing that chip off your shoulder?

#55
waheera1
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This is boring to me now. Why is level hunting so popular, you ask? Well, because it gives players a tangible aim and a means to compare and compete. Simple as that. Sure, I agree that the grind approach seems to be missing the point, but who are we to judge what is fun for other people? If they get their kicks from having a better level than someone else and that constitutes entertainment in their eyes, surely that achieves the very same as your ideas on what "fun" is?

Clans, for example, offer many of the group collaboration/"fun" events that you mentioned. Even solo players can interact and perform activities with their friends, the opportunity is theirs to take. If they don't take it, so be it, but is there really any point in criticising someone else just because they don't play in the way that you, in your seat of Godly wisdom, deem best?

Why are you assuming that people are grinding for the fun of it? The whole point of the article is that they don't do it for the fun of it, or at least it's not their main goal. You can very well tell that these people aim for some kind of "ultimate account" which they plan using for fun later on, but they never get to the part where they have fun.

No, we shouldn't care about how people like to have fun. But we should start caring when those people start having way too much influence in the progress of the game. See how it's becoming more elitist because of these elite diaries, and a level 120 skill? That's the problem. The game should remain as accessible as possible to everyone who pays for it and therefore contributes to its improvement, and not manipulated by hardcore players/no-lifers that whine all the time just because they can't find anything else to do in real life.

You have the freedom to enjoy the game the way you want. But your freedom still ends where other people's freedom begins.


Can you honestly tell me that the people grinding levels derive no pleasure at all from either the experience or the outcome? I suspect that if this really was the case, Runescape would have virtually no 99ed skills because, let's face it, every single skill requires some kind of grind in order to level. Players discern a "need" to level based upon the prospect of greater wealth/enjoyment/"social" status etc and are therefore bound to the inevitability of grinding a skill at some point. Whether or not fun is their "main goal" seems somewhat irrelevant to me, if your assertion is that grinding cannot ever be fun.

I for one find any skill incredibly tedious, yet I still have 4 99s, 2 other skills in the 90s, and several not far behind (even if that lot has taken over 6 years to achieve for me). It's been slow progress and the levels bring little enjoyment on their own, but there are so many activities that I have taken part in (often with friends and clan-members) whilst gaining those levels that it has for the most part been an enjoyable ride. In a way, you could say that the grind HAS been fun, even if the fun was not directly derived from the grind.

I sympathise with your stance on the elite diaries and other high level content. I am 100% behind you when it comes to the stupidity of having a 120 skill, even if it does look like making sense in the context of dungeoneering. At the same time however, you have to remember that for many people, what YOU want is not necessarily what THEY want. Just as you mention the necessity for sensible co-existence, you must therefore apply it to your own desires. Clearly your account is well-balanced - as your level breakdown shows - but, if it is lacking in the areas demanded by elite content, should that require that those with the elite stats be "penalised" because of you? Let me assure you that as level-based elitism beckons, you will find your perspective has changed as you actively seek to overcome the greatest challenges, pushing both yourself and your pixellated avatar to new limits. Just because something is "hard" does not in any way mean that it is not fun, or that the journey to successfully completing that task cannot also be fun.

Might I also add that it is not just no-lifers or "hardcore players" who whine? Just as Stormrage has demonstrated by his outrage at being labelled a geek, I cannot give you any proof that I am not a no-lifer or hardcore player, but I will assure you that I am not. Either way, I don't habitually whine about all the "nooby" content that gets released. Similarly, the fact that I cannot hope to achieve the vast majority of the new elite tasks has not prompted me (nor will it) to hurl a bitter diatribe at Jagex for failing to meet MY needs. Nor have any of my high-levelled friends. Be careful to keep a distinction between high-levelled "casual" players and no-lifers (and any other class of person inhabiting the space between): their approaches, opinions, lifestyles, social skills etc will ALL be different. You might even find you like some of them, appreciate their personalities and experience, God-forbid you might even form your strongest friendships with some of them!! :P By the same token, you may well find that lower-levelled players constantly whining about their own inadequacies becomes tedious very quickly.

#56
me
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Good times. Thanks for your article and nice meeting you at RuneFest Cabbage Man.
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#57
Will H
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Will H

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The first half of this article is essentially needless commentary that would fail even the most basic English Lit paper. So you went for an Indian? Nice... who hasn't? I don't get what that has to do with RuneFest.

And then, when I think you're about to give an opinion of RuneFest and move out of descriptive mode, you open some huge tirade about people who stereotype gamers conventions. An issue that has about as much to do with RuneFest as Classic.FM does to a Muse concert, an issue based on social pseudo-paranoia, and an issue which frankly I find ridiculous. People judge other people. It's a fact of life, and thank goodness it is or else our existance would be pretty damn boring. If you go to a convention for an MMORPG with loads of people dressed as Elves and Dwarves, be prepared for people to laugh at you and suggest you're not completely grounded in reality, or that you don't necessarily fit into the 'norm' of society. It's a common sense association.

You may as well argue that the Sun shouldn't rise in the morning, because you're fighting against a naturally-occuring inevitability. Aside from this, it has nothing to do with RuneFest and I don't understand why felt a need to write about it, except maybe a deeply-embedded fear of people judging you for gaming that was brought out by the experience of being at a convention and no one there apparently judging you, which actually, you mentioned in about paragraph two.

Can I suggest maybe removing that chip off your shoulder?


Well, maybe you should start appreciating that articles don't necessarily need to be about single faceted, narrow things? If we're going to describe the experience of a Runefest trip, things like stereotypes and what to do before and after the event are going to be at the forefront of your mind. Parties and events are often judged by what happened before and after, because it's an effective way to establish whether the people got along well and also whether they felt good afterwards, aka the atmosphere of the event.

If the people who went to Runefest turned out to be the exact percieved stereotype of people who would have gone to Runefest (that of annoying nerds who have nothing better to do in their lives), the point wouldn't have been made. But the fact that these people were fun loving and the exact kind of people that would make an event like this great instead was noticeable and commendable.

~ W ~


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#58
waheera1
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Because my two posts discuss different articles with large amounts of text, I shall not combine them even though they run side by side. If any forum mod sees the need to combine them (possibly with a hide section for matter quoted from other posters), please feel free. I lack the knowledge of how these forums work to do such a thing.

Apparently, some people feel that the rant bit is out of place in the article. You are perhaps right, but it is that emotion that comes up with many RuneFest go-ers when another idiot trolls up to the RuneFest forums, demanding he deserves a Flagstaff too. The same emotions that wash over you when you just planted that same Flagstaff, and people come up to you and start insulting you, calling you nerd, geek, loser or whatever, when they are enjoying the very same game that caused you to decide to go to Runefest. The same goes for the numerous people claiming to have gone if it was free.

I understand money is an issue to some. It is even an issue to me, but I had decided on making the trip to London my holiday for the year anyways. Could Jagex have handled things a little more sensitivly? Yes, I even said so in my article. But I am reminded of a giant festival in my own country. Lowlands (one of europe's biggest) has sold out all of its 70k tickets only three days after ticket sales opened up, without a single band having been anounced to be playing there. Why? Because people know the festival, just in the same way that we know Jagex. Jagex needed to to seperate wheat from chaff some how, and I tend to agree that they did indeed need to. That will without a doubt unleash the comments of elitism, but I can guarantee you that a lot of RuneFesters will agree (so aim those comments to Jagex as well?). And Das, even without you having been at RuneFest, or me having been to some of your cons, you will agree there is a difference between Revenge of the Nerds-type nerds, and the people that attend these cons.

I'm sorry if people felt personally insulted by the rant, most likely it was not even aimed at you. As I said, you are perhaps right that it does not fit with the article, but I felt it necessary to address the issue, even though it may never properly reach the type of people it was aimed at.

I feel your closing sentence deals most pertinently with the issues at hand here. Your rant, on a major fansite article, was utterly misplaced and poorly judged. Very few, if any, of the people who directed insults at you will read, or indeed care, about your experiences or your opinions. Whilst you have been criticised on other aspects of the article by others who either were there, or felt your report may have missed more interesting facts for those who didn't go, my sole grievance lies with your pointless tirade.

As a foil to your emotions, consider that perhaps you and your fellow participants are among the minority who feel such outrage about being labelled as geeks. Several people on this response topic alone are self-confessed nerds, whether or not they went to the event, so there need be no shame in saying "Yes, I am a nerd." You will ALWAYS receive abuse for behaviour which is deemed unusual, immature, or "just wrong" - I'm afraid that is, as someone else posted, a fact of life. I have come across several hardcore gamers in my time, mostly perfectly nice people, but generally not people I have a whole lot in common with. Where I spent my youth playing rugby, cricket, football etc, I can be confronted by someone who shares absolutely no interest in such things because they grew up on a diet of gaming. I'll not be the one to hurl insults, but given such people are generally in the minority, it is to be expected that people will think them unusual and subsequently express those thoughts... The anonymity of a computer screen sadly gives many people the "right" to crassly abuse those with whom they have little in common. But similarly, in my neighbourhood in East London, if you were found in a bar dressed in RS fancy dress, it is a pretty safe bet that you would be leaving the same bar without your wallet, maybe even a few teeth. These are sad facts of life, it is unrealistic of you to set yourself up in such a noticeably different manner whilst expecting people to view you as "normal". Some people feel threatened, some people feel confused, some people are just asshats, if you cannot weather the storm of abuse from them without such a furious and ill-judged backlash as was in your article then it is you who comes off looking worse. You have done RuneFesters few favours by it.

Your opinions and emotions ARE important, both to you and to those around you, but there is a time and a place to express them and I'm sorry to say that the front page of Tip.It is neither.

Now for the money side of things:
I'm utterly inexperienced in the world of gaming conventions, but I will go by what others with more experience have said. There was no proof at all that RuneFest would ever prove to be worth the £75 ticket price plus any associated travel and lodgings, so that would instantly be a turn-off for many people in these times of economic hardship. During my work on a playscheme for schoolchildren this year, we were confronted by parents who said that £35 a week was beyond their means, despite it covering 20 hours of childcare at an extremely low cost of just £1.75 an hour, fully £4.45 below the minimum wage, and likely to be closer to £6-7 lower than what any childminder would charge. £75 for just one day suddenly looks a whole lot more excessive. Let's say that someone from Manchester wished to travel down for the event - that'll be another £20 for train tickets. Then tube travel across London? £4-5 minimum depending on your arrival point and tube route, so it's suddenly become £100 for a day. Even someone from Kent is likely to pay £90+ for the day... That is a lot of money to be gambling on a completely untested convention, without even considering the probable cost of flights/Eurostar/ferry for those from further afield.

Many people are increasingly frustrated by Jagex's oversights and failings, so even the once golden name of Jagex could be seen as insufficient guarantee of the quality of the event. Comparisons with music festivals seem a little fatuous here I'm afraid, rather like suggesting that RuneFest is like the World Cup Final so should sell out...!

I feel I must also dispute your "wheat from chaff" comment. I'll not doubt that the others at RuneFest2010 were well matched to you and the other positive posters on this thread, but are you saying that people unwilling to spend £75 on an event of this type are somehow unworthy? In what way does an arbitrary charge of £75 assure that the "best" kind of people were there? It is in no way elitism, since there is no hint at all that there was any qualification to join the "elite" sect except the trusting willingness to part with £75 of your money. Perhaps I should charge £500 an hour in the hope that people are fooled into thinking I'm the best in the world at my job?! Setting yourselves up as the elite in this fashion shows the same closed-minded approach that leads many members to dismiss the thoughts and comments of non-members out of hand without even giving them due attention.

Even completely discounting the comments above, do you really believe wholeheartedly that if free entry had been announced honestly before the tickets had gone it would have ruined the day for you? It is ridiculous to suggest such a thing and casts an unfair and unfounded slur on vast numbers of players who were put off by the pricing and secrecy. Perhaps there would have been more nutters, but in a nuthouse, is that such a bad thing?! :P I'm pretty sure that at the very least it would've served to prevent the torrent of abuse you've apparently received to prompt your outbursts.

#59
waheera1
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Well, maybe you should start appreciating that articles don't necessarily need to be about single faceted, narrow things? If we're going to describe the experience of a Runefest trip, things like stereotypes and what to do before and after the event are going to be at the forefront of your mind. Parties and events are often judged by what happened before and after, because it's an effective way to establish whether the people got along well and also whether they felt good afterwards, aka the atmosphere of the event.

If the people who went to Runefest turned out to be the exact percieved stereotype of people who would have gone to Runefest (that of annoying nerds who have nothing better to do in their lives), the point wouldn't have been made. But the fact that these people were fun loving and the exact kind of people that would make an event like this great instead was noticeable and commendable.

Your first sentence is ridiculous. NOBODY has suggested that either article was single-faceted, or narrow. Many people have pointed out that Stormrage's article was marred by a silly tirade, also that the second article was too similar to previous articles to be of much substance. There is a clear difference.

For my part I had no problem with Storm telling us about the trips to the pub, it was fashioned similarly to the Jagex-released Golden Ticket interviews etc, so it seems to be a working format. That said, as you will read below, the fact that Storm and other members of the "elite" RF2010 club got on well doesn't really provide an accurate barometer of success... I can go to an event with a great bunch of friends who all get on well and it still be a terrible event regardless. Sure, I'd mind less in company, but it wouldn't make the event inherently any better.

I am pleased for Stormrage that he managed to make several acquaintances of like-minded people, but that merely points to the fact that a lot of the people were like Storm. None of us can honestly say that the people at RF2010 either were or weren't annoying nerds in some peoples' eyes, nor that their idea of "fun" matches in with general perceptions of fun and normality outside of the gaming world. To attempt to assert any such statement otherwise - by either yourself in favour of these possible nerds, or by an angry ranter against them - is pointless and will perpetuate itself rather like the "Evolution v Creationism" debate. Neither can prove the other 100% wrong, but a lot of hatred can be stirred up even if it is utterly misplaced.

#60
trottle
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@Ts_Stormrage

Hey, i enjoyed your article (except the ranting bit)

Was quite sceptical about runefest, but i never vented it, and i would not even have gone if they paid my flightticket.
I just could not imagine it being fun or that i would enjoy being there (my age probably also has something to do with that)

Anyway, like i said, i enjoyed your article, cause i still was curious about what it was all about.
Your enthusiasm caught on and I was actually thinking: hmmm...maybe this was more fun then i thought

until i came to the ranting bit. Now i dont feel insulted by it but it automatically takes the whole article down.
and it changed my thoughts to : well if it really was that much fun, why would he bother ranting.

I know a big part of the rs community are a bunch of whining morrons and that they can really drive you mad.
But if you enjoyed it really that much, why care about what others think.




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