Jump to content

Dungeoneering: Bindery


Blutters

Recommended Posts

A hood is a waste of a bind.

 

Yes, I said it.

The usefulness of the hood rises dramatically according to how many people on a given team already have hoods. As i said, it doesn't make a major difference when 4 people have platebodies and one has hood, as 1/4 of the melee/range monsters will attack each guy with plate, and the damage isn't that dramatic. However, and this is much more likely to happen nowadays(when most people already have hoods) when all the other people have hoods and you have plate/body, you might aswell quit the team at start because lets face it, if there isn't a mage in the room, you'll be attacked by ALL the monsters while everyone else will be secure. The hood might not be that great of an item on occult floors, but because nearly everyone has one, you have to have it aswell.

 

As for bows, a hexhunter bow is always worth binding due to it's sheer rarity. Sagittarian bows, however, are a completely different matter. Firstly, they are only good for a very limited amount of monsters, and secondly, the difference between a saggitarian bow and a grave creeper bow(which are immensely easy to make in any dungeon) is ridiculously small, so if you have any common sense at all, you'd never bind any other bow than hexhunter. For staves, a celestial cat staff is worth binding when you have 3 binds and are looking to mage quite a bit, but otherwise, as with ranged, a good staff is fairly easy to be made, or you could mage without one(as the targets would have serious negative defense bonus anyway).

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 197
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Would you rather get attacked by a single animated book or an animated book and four 90+ ranging enemies?

 

Only necromancers and forgotten mages can reveal your presence to the other monsters :thumbup: Even though the hood is less useful in occult floors, it still has many benefits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hood is still king.

 

there, i said it.

Now if night spiders actually drop them more often...

 

Speaking of which, all slayer monsters need to appear more.

douvdFX.jpg


 


Blog


Trimmed | Master Quester | Final Boss


Boss pets: Bombi | Shrimpy | Ellie | Tz-Rek Jad | Karil the Bobbled | Mega Ducklings


120s: Dungeoneering | Invention

Link to comment
Share on other sites

excuse me for nt being good at quoting just 1 sentence in a post

 

"I'd like to see you slash/crush hobgoblins, forgotten rangers, brutes, guard dogs, hellhounds, and DRAGONS DAMMIT

 

hobgoblins are weak to crush

rangers are weak to slash

brutes dont exist lol

guard dogs dont exist

helhounds are a pain, true but they are little offensive threat

dragons are quite rare, maybe 1 per floor that needs killing

 

so yea 2 of those examples are true, maybe 1.5 to be more accurate

 

(psst id like to see any single skeleton in occult get stabbed, or a forgotten warrior whos using plate + legs)

 

also 8 str adds about 20-25 dmg

a_final_name.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience I hit rangers more with stab, partially due to the spear being awesomely accurate, but it's made of hide right? (And dragons = STAB LAWL)

 

Hobgoblins are a similar situation. I've never personally tried crush because warhammers/mauls fail that bad. Some say slash but I'm not exactly sure.

 

And correction: longsword/battleaxe difference is +6 str. Only hits like 10-15 higher. Basically most of the top weapons make little difference in stats - it's the style that matters.

 

Also how do brutes/dogs not exist? You're going to be larging 25+ anyways, correct? (Unless times have changed and people only large occults now.)

 

And I know about skeletons. xD Which is why I too think OP needs some sort of corrections with his floor assumptions.

douvdFX.jpg


 


Blog


Trimmed | Master Quester | Final Boss


Boss pets: Bombi | Shrimpy | Ellie | Tz-Rek Jad | Karil the Bobbled | Mega Ducklings


120s: Dungeoneering | Invention

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience I hit rangers more with stab, partially due to the spear being awesomely accurate, but it's made of hide right? (And dragons = STAB LAWL)

 

Hobgoblins are a similar situation. I've never personally tried crush because warhammers/mauls fail that bad. Some say slash but I'm not exactly sure.

 

And correction: longsword/battleaxe difference is +6 str. Only hits like 10-15 higher. Basically most of the top weapons make little difference in stats - it's the style that matters.

 

Also how do brutes/dogs not exist? You're going to be larging 25+ anyways, correct? (Unless times have changed and people only large occults now.)

 

And I know about skeletons. xD Which is why I too think OP needs some sort of corrections with his floor assumptions.

 

Not sure if it's just me and my little group but we rush 1-29 and leave abadoned 2 and occults for larges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't like the hood that much... I got one a few days ago, but I'm starting to miss my tier 9 platebody. Not having a platebody makes bosses a lot more difficult for me. And I never really had any trouble clearing dungeons with my platebody anyway...

 

I'm thinking about throwing the hood away and just make a new platebody.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hood is still king.

 

there, i said it.

Now if night spiders actually drop them more often...

 

Speaking of which, all slayer monsters need to appear more.

 

That's probably true. Slayer is relatively under-represented in dungeoneering. I'd like to see guardian doors with high level (edimmu and soulgazer) slayer creatures in them by way of bonus room paths, as I usually only see these in dead-ends.

 

And yes, I finally get to see soulgazers thanks to occult. Finally my 99 slayer comes to some use.

=Proud member of the Order of Cabbage=

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't agree with you there, although melee is still somewhat effective against them.

 

And range is more effective.

 

Melee is actually the primary option for pretty much all non-boss monsters, it seems.

 

Because it's easier to use.

 

Combine it with berserker to make it even better.

 

That only makes melee better against the things you are supposed to be melee'ing.

 

If magic really deals damage so fast, then all the pro dungeoneers would choose to mage (which they do not).

 

This is fairly poor logic. Most people don't mage because mage takes a bit longer to get started up than it does melee. Whereas you just bind a melee weapon and are good to go, you have to make make runes to mage with. For most people, that's unappealing, so they take the road quite frequently traveled.

 

Plus the fact that occults are out, it makes magic look even more useless. If you really want a staff, purchase some logs and make a fire staff.

 

Only if you try to mage high level necromancers, books and mages. But that's when you switch to range.

 

And as I've stated earlier, melee with berserker just adds on with the favoring melee business.

 

Damage wise, berserker can't compete with blazer, because berserker increases your strength level which indirectly leads to higher hits, while blazer is an extra 50% damage on whatever you hit whenever it activates.

 

But as OP stated, it will have significantly less magic monsters than the other themes due to this very weakness (less than occult at least). Still, you've got a point, there will still be magic monsters that will annoy you to no end. Still doesn't make the hood useless though.

 

All it takes is one magic based NPC.

 

In that case then a sag short doesn't even warrant a bind slot. A smuggler-bought tangle gum shortbow does the job just fine as well, no?

 

In the same vein that no melee weapon deserves a bind as you can just buy a novite hatchet from the smuggler and use that. Remember, I said low defense, not no range defense.

 

No matter how you look at it, the hood is STILL worthy for a 2nd bind slot. Ranged/magic just aren't useful enough to warrant themselves early bind slots, as you can just buy the thing until 100 dung.

 

Popular doesn't make it best. A hood is situational, and gets you hit less so long as there aren't any mage-based monsters around. It doesn't make you more effective versus monsters, though, which is what I deem important. A sag short + sniper and a celestial catalytic + blazer will go a lot further than a hood and any melee weapon will, as a hood + a melee weapon makes you one dimensional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The usefulness of the hood rises dramatically according to how many people on a given team already have hoods. As i said, it doesn't make a major difference when 4 people have platebodies and one has hood, as 1/4 of the melee/range monsters will attack each guy with plate, and the damage isn't that dramatic. However, and this is much more likely to happen nowadays(when most people already have hoods) when all the other people have hoods and you have plate/body, you might aswell quit the team at start because lets face it, if there isn't a mage in the room, you'll be attacked by ALL the monsters while everyone else will be secure. The hood might not be that great of an item on occult floors, but because nearly everyone has one, you have to have it aswell.

 

Or, you can just GGS through said room. Or, pray and run through them. I can't say I've ever had any problem doing a dungeon without a hood, and I doubt I'd have one in the near future.

 

As for bows, a hexhunter bow is always worth binding due to it's sheer rarity. Sagittarian bows, however, are a completely different matter. Firstly, they are only good for a very limited amount of monsters, and secondly, the difference between a saggitarian bow and a grave creeper bow(which are immensely easy to make in any dungeon) is ridiculously small, so if you have any common sense at all, you'd never bind any other bow than hexhunter.

 

The difference between a sag short and a gravekeeper short is about +8 range, which works out roughly to it being about 14 - 15% more accurate. That's not a small pittance by any means.

 

For staves, a celestial cat staff is worth binding when you have 3 binds and are looking to mage quite a bit, but otherwise, as with ranged, a good staff is fairly easy to be made, or you could mage without one(as the targets would have serious negative defense bonus anyway).

 

Number one, I would only hope you'd bind a celestical catalytic staff if you were planning on maging often (seeing as how it takes 99 mage to wield). Number two, it's worth binding as soon as you get it if you're going to mage, as a celestial catalytic staff is +30% damage. The only other staff which comes close to it is a doomcore staff at +25% damage, but I've never even seen one, and I've killed hundreds of nechs (In other words, it's uber rare). After that, the next best staff would be the empowered catalytic staff, but that only grants a +20% damage increase, and to obtain one without getting it as a drop from the Unholy Cursebearer you need 90 woodcutting, 98 fletching and and 99 runecraft. After that, the next best staff is a catalytic staff with a +15% damage increase, which you can make out of tier 5 logs or better and if you have 50 runecraft. No matter what way you slice it, giving up +30% damage for +15% damage, or forgoing that bonus all together, solely so you can possibly use less food doesn't make much sense-- especially when you consider the fact that there are ways to go about skipping rooms you'd otherwise get piled in (like ggs'ing through them) or just running through them with pray (usually range). That alone takes care of the 'need' for a hood. On the flip side, a hood doesn't substitute for offense when you need it, and wasting a bind on a hood makes you less effective against a wider range of monsters than you otherwise would have been. I, personally, would much rather be able to kill a wider ranger of monsters more effectively than I would be able to run through a few rooms safely (which, as I said, can be done without the use of a hood).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i only do 36-47 large, since 12 larges avgin 90k xp is fine by be, rather than 18 larges averaging 80k xp

 

c1 rushing only takes like 1-2h anyway so id rather do only my top floors, basicly i still get 8-9h of larges for 900k and 1-2h of rush for 10k, thats over 1m xp per round of 10h, over 100k xp/h and i aint even pro

a_final_name.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with Magic is that you only get a small magic attack boost from staves so you're not very accurate on monsters like giant bats and hogoblins. It's also very annoying having to craft new runes all the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1st: Primal B Axe>Primal Maul>Novite Spear

2nd: Blood Neck>Hexhunter>Prom Plate>Hood

 

Since I'm not over 100 Dung I don't know/care about a third/fourth. Anyways, a weapon is obviously the best first bind. Pretty obvious, but I think prom spear is really too far behind to bind over a maul. Its a lower tier, and does not benefit from ring. I can't convince myself that there is a monster who is so incredibly resistant to Crush that it could beat out maul. I don't have a problem hitting things, and I almost always get Berserker over Spear users.

 

Blood Neck is so useful for clearing rooms and saving food early on. Its overall usefulness is simply too great. Hexhunter is great for taking out mages and shades. They are probably the most dangerous of the creatures in Dung. Prom plate for general tanking. You can easily protect from magic and be good against everything except for shades. Hood is good, but only one person needs it.

 

Are you kidding me? Hood is easily the best second bind, you obviously haven't tried it when you notice that all the decent teams all have hoods. Lol Baxe>maul>novite spear? Did you make a typo and forget to put the 2h in front of baxe?

I agree with you on neck>plate, but that's only if you never key. If you key, you rarely clear rooms so you need more defense and rarely have the opportunity to leech hp from monsters.

This.

 

2h>hood>plate=neck=baxe, depending on how often you key and all.

 

Personally, I'd do 2h>hood>plate>neck, although at 100 I'd bind hexhunter if I got one.

Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The usefulness of the hood rises dramatically according to how many people on a given team already have hoods. As i said, it doesn't make a major difference when 4 people have platebodies and one has hood, as 1/4 of the melee/range monsters will attack each guy with plate, and the damage isn't that dramatic. However, and this is much more likely to happen nowadays(when most people already have hoods) when all the other people have hoods and you have plate/body, you might aswell quit the team at start because lets face it, if there isn't a mage in the room, you'll be attacked by ALL the monsters while everyone else will be secure. The hood might not be that great of an item on occult floors, but because nearly everyone has one, you have to have it aswell.

 

Or, you can just GGS through said room. Or, pray and run through them. I can't say I've ever had any problem doing a dungeon without a hood, and I doubt I'd have one in the near future.

 

As for bows, a hexhunter bow is always worth binding due to it's sheer rarity. Sagittarian bows, however, are a completely different matter. Firstly, they are only good for a very limited amount of monsters, and secondly, the difference between a saggitarian bow and a grave creeper bow(which are immensely easy to make in any dungeon) is ridiculously small, so if you have any common sense at all, you'd never bind any other bow than hexhunter.

 

The difference between a sag short and a gravekeeper short is about +8 range, which works out roughly to it being about 14 - 15% more accurate. That's not a small pittance by any means.

 

For staves, a celestial cat staff is worth binding when you have 3 binds and are looking to mage quite a bit, but otherwise, as with ranged, a good staff is fairly easy to be made, or you could mage without one(as the targets would have serious negative defense bonus anyway).

 

Number one, I would only hope you'd bind a celestical catalytic staff if you were planning on maging often (seeing as how it takes 99 mage to wield). Number two, it's worth binding as soon as you get it if you're going to mage, as a celestial catalytic staff is +30% damage. The only other staff which comes close to it is a doomcore staff at +25% damage, but I've never even seen one, and I've killed hundreds of nechs (In other words, it's uber rare). After that, the next best staff would be the empowered catalytic staff, but that only grants a +20% damage increase, and to obtain one without getting it as a drop from the Unholy Cursebearer you need 90 woodcutting, 98 fletching and and 99 runecraft. After that, the next best staff is a catalytic staff with a +15% damage increase, which you can make out of tier 5 logs or better and if you have 50 runecraft. No matter what way you slice it, giving up +30% damage for +15% damage, or forgoing that bonus all together, solely so you can possibly use less food doesn't make much sense-- especially when you consider the fact that there are ways to go about skipping rooms you'd otherwise get piled in (like ggs'ing through them) or just running through them with pray (usually range). That alone takes care of the 'need' for a hood. On the flip side, a hood doesn't substitute for offense when you need it, and wasting a bind on a hood makes you less effective against a wider range of monsters than you otherwise would have been. I, personally, would much rather be able to kill a wider ranger of monsters more effectively than I would be able to run through a few rooms safely (which, as I said, can be done without the use of a hood).

 

 

Firstly, for most dungeoneers, it's still a a problem to get round a dungeon without a hood, you will be slowing your team down by not being able to go trough the rooms normally or will be taking much more damage in those rooms than other people. You also have to factor in lag(which most people have) which can be deadly in those situations. If you can do without any armor/proctection, good for you, BUT IT'S IRRELEVANT, as maybe if you'd read the topic, OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T. A hood may be useless to you, a hexhunter bow may be useless to someone with <98 ranged, but it's not the point- hood is still useful to most people and a hexhunter bow is still the best bow in dungeoneering.

 

As for ranged weapons, you just said that sagit short is much better long because accuracy is useless in dungeoneering(mages have no ranged def), but then resorted to saying that a small(relatively) accuracy boost makes you hit with much higher accuracy, so, which is it? Wouldn't grave long be over 50% more accurate than sagit short with ~+80 ranged? Yeah, really poor point.

 

I agree that the celestial cat staff is worth binding if you plan to mage ALOT, but you'd more than likely have to redo your whole bind list to be able to mage efficiently, most likely bind bloods, staff and sb top to have decent accuracy on most monsters, and that'd leave you quite weak to alot of things in a dungeon, AND you'd still have to work harder. You also seem to overvalue offensive force in a dungeon a bit- we all know that a faster dungeon means more xp, but dieing more also lowers your xp rate dramatically, so people are less inclined to risk death for 2 seconds on a mage or 5 seconds on a prim warrior.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fastest XP would be 1-47 Large, hard to find teams for that though.

 

Check out the dungeon spreadsheets. It give a more accurate idea of xp rates for the skill and what floors are best to c1 based on your average floor time for smalls/larges.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/254457-grimys-reference-spreadsheets/

~ Arcane Rift ~

:: 99 Smithing - 2007-03-04 ::

::
:: 99 Crafting - 2007-06-18 :: 99 Fletching - 2007-08-27 ::

::

:: 99 Strength - 2009-05-28 ::
::
::
::

::

::
:: 99 Prayer - 2011-11-27 ::
:: 99 Slayer - 2012-01-15 ::

::

:: 99 Summoning - 2012-12-07 :: 99 Firemaking - 2012-12-09 :: 99 Woodcutting - 2013-01-17 :: 99 Mining - 2013-01-31 ::

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fastest XP would be 1-47 Large, hard to find teams for that though.

 

Check out the dungeon spreadsheets. It give a more accurate idea of xp rates for the skill and what floors are best to c1 based on your average floor time for smalls/larges.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/254457-grimys-reference-spreadsheets/

 

I can do all the floors, f1-47 large rushing with a good team is faster XP/h than doing c1s and then doing larges on higher floors only.

10xy5fk.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fastest XP would be 1-47 Large, hard to find teams for that though.

 

Check out the dungeon spreadsheets. It give a more accurate idea of xp rates for the skill and what floors are best to c1 based on your average floor time for smalls/larges.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/254457-grimys-reference-spreadsheets/

 

I can do all the floors, f1-47 large rushing with a good team is faster XP/h than doing c1s and then doing larges on higher floors only.

It's extremely unlikely that you can, but if you want me(or most intelligent people here) to give you the benefit of a doubt you should post how much time a 5:5 large or a c1 solo take for you.

 

For me, more or less trusting that spreadsheet(and i do), the best would be to do 37-44 5:5 large.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's extremely unlikely that you can, but if you want me(or most intelligent people here) to give you the benefit of a doubt you should post how much time a 5:5 large or a c1 solo take for you.

 

For me, more or less trusting that spreadsheet(and i do), the best would be to do 37-44 5:5 large.

I still do floors 30-47, because abandons tend to take less time than occults, and my spreadsheets don't account for that.

(I'm actually thinking of adjusting the spreadsheet but haven't had the time), but i want ALOT more data before I start doing anything like that.

 

On another note, I had the pleasure of seeing a hexhunter in action the other day.

It definitely did not hit any 400+'s against t11 mages as according to rswiki, but I guess the ranger wasn't using strong ranging potions and rigour.

I wasn't able to tell if it really was that much better than Pro2h's based on a few floors.

From what I could tell, the accuracy of the bow was a huge problem. I think it missed on the order of 50% of the time against a t11 mage.

 

might be better with proper ranged armor though, the wielder only had the bow + a shadow silk equipped when he ranged.

Naaxi.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On another note, I had the pleasure of seeing a hexhunter in action the other day.

It definitely did not hit any 400+'s against t11 mages as according to rswiki, but I guess the ranger wasn't using strong ranging potions and rigour.

I wasn't able to tell if it really was that much better than Pro2h's based on a few floors.

From what I could tell, the accuracy of the bow was a huge problem. I think it missed on the order of 50% of the time against a t11 mage.

 

might be better with proper ranged armor though, the wielder only had the bow + a shadow silk equipped when he ranged.

 

What other binds did the player have? Did you get his/her name? How did it fare against bosses?

 

I'M SO CURIOUS! :pray:

 

EDIT: Nevermind, you answered the first question.

dgs5.jpg
To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What other binds did the player have? Did you get his/her name? How did it fare against bosses?

 

I'M SO CURIOUS! :pray:

 

EDIT: Nevermind, you answered the first question.

his named was pharnox or something like that

his name started with phar :P

he hate either a primal baxe or a 2h, along with the bow + shadow silk

 

Too hard to say how it did on the bosses, I'm guessing it missed alot, and there weren't such massive hits that I could clearly tell which of the hits came from the hexhunter, and not the rest of us.

 

sorry, that's all I remember

Naaxi.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.