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Efficiency


Michael

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Tbh I'm not sure why we're debating about a 'perfectly efficient world' because there won't ever be one :P

 

Efficiency does benefit the economy BUT total efficiency wouldn't imo.

>_< I was trying to tell you that your definition of total efficiency is incorrect.

Your definition of total efficiency is everybody going after certain resources like frost dragon bones.

 

I was saying, that that would in fact, be less efficient, and most definitely not be "total efficiency"

I suppose that's correct, the number of people going for something would make it inefficient, moving people to other methods... I will concede that. But I don't think on the whole that a really efficient Runescape would be good. It's not a job, or a company, the main point is that you HAVE fun. Whether that means playing Castle Wars or killing frost dragons... as long as it's what you want to do then I'm behind it 100%.

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I suppose that's correct, the number of people going for something would make it inefficient, moving people to other methods... I will concede that. But I don't think on the whole that a really efficient Runescape would be good. It's not a job, or a company, the main point is that you HAVE fun. Whether that means playing Castle Wars or killing frost dragons... as long as it's what you want to do then I'm behind it 100%.

All I've been trying to say this thread is that fun can be one of the goals of efficiency.

Typically we just calculate getting the best gp and xp with your time.

It does not mean however, that efficiency can be getting the best gp, xp, AND fun with your time.

After all, playing a game and not having fun, is most definitely not efficient.

 

I just choose not put fun in my calculations.

Because calculating math equations with fun as a variable, is most definitely, not fun.

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I'm not particularly efficient myself but it really annoys me when people come into an argument (such as whether one item is better than another) and say "Lol why not just use what is fun." Pretty stupid thing to say really.

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Guest jrhairychest

If you're not being efficient in your game play, you're doing it wrong.

 

Time is money, and you're essentially wasting your cash if you're just chitchatting in world 1 Lumbridge or something, and not actually training your skills.

 

Efficiency - that's what most of Runescape is all about. Without efficiency, good luck actually doing stuff in game...

 

This is completely a completely ridiciulous post . Basically anyone having fun or doing the things that they want to do in the game is WRONG and doing things your way is right because its efficient and you say so? Biggest load of claptrap I've ever read.

 

I've a healthy bank account, I have a great time in the game, sometimes (shock horror) I even take the long route to doing things and I still profit plenty. Why? Because I enjoy it. So that puts two fingers up to your theory.

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Efficiency comes into play when there are certain goals involved. The most efficient method is one, which gets you there in the smallest amount of time (factoring in potential gp/h). Then again you might not like that method (not "fun"), so you'll choose another in which case achieving your goal will take longer. Just a matter of how much you want to achieve and how much time you're willing to spend.

 

Personally, I don't see RS as a very "fun" game. It's more of a time killer. My goal is to max out and I'd like to achieve that as soon as possible. :)

It's a question of mentality and why you're playing RS.

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Actually it would reek havoc on the economy. People would ONLY buy the items that were efficient and, since it's not efficient to make those items in the first place, there'd be no supply and cause prices to completely skyrocket.

(also to your other posts) For prayer, there is only one efficient method (that is, altaring) and almost all methods are dependant on bones. But taking for example herblore; there are many potions you can make. Herblore gp/xp can't get too far from the average or people won't train with a potion (only making it when they need it badly), reducing demand and lowering the price. The same is true for many other training methods. For example, cutting ivy produces no logs. If everybody would cut ivy then kill frost dragons for money, frost dragon bones would decrease in price (decreasing the income to be made there). At the same time, log prices would go up, causing more people to cut logs instead of ivy.

 

What I said is basically theory of a free-market economy. Of course the GE has restrictions, which make it possible for some items to become 'stuck' with a price. I don't think, however, that any 'efficiency revolution', fast enough to actually hit these boundaries, will happen. If we're going towards an efficient world, it'll be slow enough that the GE is approximately a free market.

 

Closer OT: Efficieny is always relative to a goal. If your goal is to get untrimmed summoning with all other skills level 3, then yeah, do scrolls or something. It's not an efficient way to get 99 summoning, but that was not the goal. If your goal is to get 99 slayer, then use piety/turmoil, repot often, cannon. If your goal is to get 99 slayer while having fun, then we can't help you unless you provide us with a detailed, understandable (objective) description of what you think is fun (which is very hard to give). Such descriptions are rarely included, so that's why H&A topics are often about efficiency and not fun; fun wasn't in the question.

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

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Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

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okay after reading 6 pages of this...

 

first off i like to do things fast, as i said, so most of the time i do things in efficient methods. that's not to say i don't have fun! go look me up in the high scores i'm ranked pretty high at castlewars. i also love killing bosses and being a merchant in world 2, runescape is lots of fun for me the way i play it.

 

now to my main point. i've seen a lot of the "i'm efficient" people's posts, and frankly a lot of them do seem upsetting. in particular some posts along the lines of "you are wasting time" by Sonic and others - this is a game and of course even the efficient people are wasting time.

 

on the other hand the "i'm not efficient" people are equally repulsive. posts by people like racheya that imply that it is impossible for a person to do something like cannon dagannoths and have fun are obviously unfounded. the insinuation that all players that do anything efficient are obsessed with xp to the point that "they cannot look away from their screen lest they miss 15xp" is frankly malicious.

 

cuique suum guys, where's all the hate coming from

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TL;DR

Dragon drops: 82 (2 claws)

Dagannoth kings drops: 73

Barrows item count: 51

GWD drops: 54 (5 hilts: 1x bandos, 3x saradomin, 1x zamorak)

Whips: 4

Sigils: 1x spectral (FFA), 1x arcane (FFA)

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@XPX

Efficient players are not forcing anyone to also be efficient.

 

Nobody really "forces" anyone to do anything in this game. However, watch the pictures and help & advice threads for awhile and you will constantly see people who endorse "efficiency" hound people for not doing something "x" way because it's inefficient. Its almost every week we have a new thread on this forum saying 1000 reasons why x is better than y. It may be generalizing on elitism, nor am I saying efficiency is "bad", but I don't see people on the opposite end of the spectrum making posts like that towards people who are efficient.

 

Efficiency is just like religion. Everyone thinks they have the best view on it, everyone else who has opposite views is wrong, and anyone who tells you what to think is wrong.

 

That's because people that post in Help and Advice are looking for those kind of answers..... :wall:

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Fisher/Woodcut------Me-----Miner/crafter----Stabber----Leecher

^Golvellius must be so proud^

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Obviously you want to have fun.

So if you define efficiency solely to be the best way to gain the best ratio of gp/xp for your time then you're a moron.

 

Hello clown #2, short time no argue over semantics eh?

 

MSN Encarta dictionary for you.

ef·fi·cien·cy [ i físh'nsee ] (plural ef·fi·cien·cies)

noun

 

Definition:

 

1. competence: the ability to do something well or achieve a desired result without wasted energy or effort.

emphasis on the highlighted words

Haha!

Never look at the last part of that sentence ever.

Bold the middle.

Bold the beginning.

Tell everybody efficiency means happiness.

Tell everybody that definitions of words are subjective.

Standardized english is cruel.

Make up new definitons of commonly used words.

But, for god's sake never acknowledge the last part of that sentence because you'll know your clueless. :lol:

Good job. You managed to ignore the fact that what you posted agreed exactly with the people you are arguing against.

 

It takes a special kind of mind to be able to ignore your own shortcomings so readily. So instead of acknowledging that you are mistaken, you call names and spout drivel.

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cant stand non efficient noobs <.< guess they like wasting time

 

you clearly fail to realize it is a game and you are normally supposed to have fun on a game? not waste away your hours contantly grinding "efficiently"

 

you have no right to call anyone who enjoys the game instead of being efficient a noob

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You clearly fail to realize it is a game and you are normally supposed to have fun on a game? not waste away your hours contantly grinding "efficiently"

So the myth that people have fun while playing games is real o.O. I play games just to kill time. Fun is not an option*. If I am going to kill my time I am going to do it properly (efficiently).

 

*If I want to have fun .. you know .. I'll go outside .. communicate with other people etc etc.

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You clearly fail to realize it is a game and you are normally supposed to have fun on a game? not waste away your hours contantly grinding "efficiently"

So the myth that people have fun while playing games is real o.O. I play games just to kill time. Fun is not an option*. If I am going to kill my time I am going to do it properly (efficiently).

 

*If I want to have fun .. you know .. I'll go outside .. communicate with other people etc etc.

 

Obviously people have fun on games. But being efficient on them is not important.

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But when you start paying 5m for a ring that adds 14lp to your max hit, you do wonder about their sanity, or ability to work out what a sensible price is.

 

5 Mill took me slightly more than a week of farming to make, and this is with a brand spanking level 3 account (now level 47).

 

5 mill IS a reasonable price, even for my noob account. And to be honest, its DEFINATELY a reasonable price for someone who has nothing better to buy and who makes 5 mill in a ridiculously short amount of time (when you already have the best armor, you may as well get the best ring).

O.O

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I suppose that's correct, the number of people going for something would make it inefficient, moving people to other methods... I will concede that. But I don't think on the whole that a really efficient Runescape would be good. It's not a job, or a company, the main point is that you HAVE fun. Whether that means playing Castle Wars or killing frost dragons... as long as it's what you want to do then I'm behind it 100%.

All I've been trying to say this thread is that fun can be one of the goals of efficiency.

Typically we just calculate getting the best gp and xp with your time.

It does not mean however, that efficiency can be getting the best gp, xp, AND fun with your time.

After all, playing a game and not having fun, is most definitely not efficient.

 

I just choose not put fun in my calculations.

Because calculating math equations with fun as a variable, is most definitely, not fun.

Yeah, see, Grimy is ftw. Going out and posting exactly what I was gonna say without me even needing to have to say it and saving me the trouble of explaining everything myself. It's great. :thumbsup:

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okay after reading 6 pages of this...

 

first off i like to do things fast, as i said, so most of the time i do things in efficient methods. that's not to say i don't have fun! go look me up in the high scores i'm ranked pretty high at castlewars. i also love killing bosses and being a merchant in world 2, runescape is lots of fun for me the way i play it.

 

now to my main point. i've seen a lot of the "i'm efficient" people's posts, and frankly a lot of them do seem upsetting. in particular some posts along the lines of "you are wasting time" by ____ and others - this is a game and of course even the efficient people are wasting time.

 

on the other hand the "i'm not efficient" people are equally repulsive. posts by people like _____ that imply that it is impossible for a person to do something like cannon dagannoths and have fun are obviously unfounded. the insinuation that all players that do anything efficient are obsessed with xp to the point that "they cannot look away from their screen lest they miss 15xp" is frankly malicious.

 

cuique suum guys, where's all the hate coming from

 

 

No need to point the finger at people in this thread. They are equally deserving to have their own opinion and say on the matter. I have edited your quote here, and I would respectfully ask if you could please remove their names out of courtesy on your post as well. You can make examples without naming people in a bad light :)

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What you're saying is that I should be really efficient, burn myself out, then go have fun. I'd much prefer to just go and have the fun in the first place. I'll worry about how efficient I'm being later.

 

Really because i would much rather barrage at castle wars as opposed to running around casting water surge.

 

The time spent doing some questing, and flipping/farming for some cash isnt really that much, having a much cooler spell to own people with is priceless.

O.O

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What you're saying is that I should be really efficient, burn myself out, then go have fun. I'd much prefer to just go and have the fun in the first place. I'll worry about how efficient I'm being later.

 

Really because i would much rather barrage at castle wars as opposed to running around casting water surge.

 

The time spent doing some questing, and flipping/farming for some cash isnt really that much, having a much cooler spell to own people with is priceless.

Gonna have to disagree with you here. Water surge is weaker (and sucky in general), but it's way cooler than ice barrage...uh, figuratively speaking, that is. Ancient spells need graphical updates. Plus, switching spellbooks is annoying.

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Like Morionic mentioned, efficiency seems to be very stigmatic on these forums. There's much misunderstanding going on. I mean, think about who the main "culprits" are, then go and read their posts on this thread. What do they all have in common? They all mention FUN as being a very important part of efficiency and playing Runescape in general. Not one of them has mentioned spending billions of GP for a 1% increase in exp/h or anything like that. You're all exaggerating, and it's getting very tiring to read.

 

Morionic made a very good post about this very subject a while ago. He said that people who love efficiency and who try to figure things out for other people (e: Grimy's spreadsheets) are actually being INEFFICIENT by doing so. They take time out of their days so YOU don't have to. How many of you anti-efficiency players have used xpx's frost dragons guide? What about Bladewing's chinning nechs guide? TheAncient's dungeoneering guide? I won't even ask about Morionic's spreadsheets. What do all of these things have in common? These players took time out of their days to help YOU, and you thank them by flaming them.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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to those who support efficiency, you should get a factory job you have a natural aptitude for it (especially when you spend your free time working on being more efficient...)

Actually, I have a job where I purposely come 20 minutes early, because it saves me 30+ minutes later. And you know what? I LOVE MY JOB.

 

There is a mathematical, scientific, testable, and thus provable BEST way to do many things, including training skills. Well people ask for advice, they normally want the best/fastest/most gp/hr way. EG, if I ask about the best way to train mining @ 80 mining, I would expect answers talking about granite (Most xp/hr) and C Gold (AFK, profit, and still fast). I would NOT expect advice about mining copper, or iron. (Unless F2P). If I asked about best herb to grow, I would expect people to take into advice average profit per seed, and profit per run, as well as xp. I wouldn't expect answers based on feelings (Don't grow snapdragons, they may be more profit, but the seeds cost too much).

 

Fun, however, is another matter. That is not only highly subjective, but also what a person considers fun varies over time. I used to love mining. Now I rarely train it. Advice shouldn't be based only on what an individual considers "fun", although that can be a factor. In my case, enjoyment, and AFK-ability is why I'd chose C Gold over granite.

 

Efficiency is about getting the most out of your time. That is why I laugh when people call me a "no lifer". The majority of them, outside the trolls, are probably training quite slower then I am.

 

Granted, I don't always enjoy being efficient in everything, hence why I still go to GWD, and play certain minigames, etc. But remember, whilst you are killing specters without a cannon, tanking them, I'll be finishing my task there in 20 minutes, and profiting more off the time saved then the other saved in P pots. Yet even then, that doesn't mean I'm "better". I just enjoy a different style of play.

 

Even so, making fun of one who is efficient because of whatever you think about them, really makes no sense. Our advice is better (normally) then those who only factor in "fun" or what they THINK is a good way to train, and we achieve more. Its how we enjoy to play. But its still a game. Play how you WANT, but if you ask, we'll tell you the EFFICIENT way, and you make up your own mind if you enjoy it.

 

As my nooby friend ( :D ) above me said, posting on TIF isn't helping us much on RS, but I personally not only enjoy it, but I enjoy helping others achieving their real potential.

 

RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying.

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Gonna have to disagree with you here. Water surge is weaker (and sucky in general), but it's way cooler than ice barrage...uh, figuratively speaking, that is. Ancient spells need graphical updates. Plus, switching spellbooks is annoying.

 

It may look slightly cooler to you (an ice cube is still way cooler IMO), but freezing 5 people for 20+ damage is way cooler than doing 20 damage on a single target before he charges at you and kills you with claws.

O.O

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So the myth that people have fun while playing games is real o.O. I play games just to kill time. Fun is not an option*. If I am going to kill my time I am going to do it properly (efficiently).

 

*If I want to have fun .. you know .. I'll go outside .. communicate with other people etc etc.

 

I'm not saying anything about efficiency, but I do want to talk about how "fun is not an option".

 

Are you [bleep]ing kidding me? Do you play any other games but this one? Games = entertainment. Fun is a byproduct of entertainment. You are supposed to play games to have fun, but apparently you treat runescape as a chore or a job.

 

Are you telling me that when I play MW2 on XBL I'm supposed to be efficient at it, and not use it for any entertainment purposes? How the [bleep] do you be effiecient at shooting games?

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