Efficiency

[CharlieBrown]

These folks are right.

 

 

It's so much more fun to take 30 minutes longer a task when I don't use piety/super pots. You efficiency guys don't know what you're missing.

 

I disagree, I find it more fun to use extremes and turmoil, and hit constant high numbers. Just because you don't find it fun, doesn't mean others don't.

FUN IS SUBJECTIVE!!!!

 

You sir, failed at sensing sarcasm.

[SirIzenhime]

When on the internet, it's hardly a fail when you don't sense sarcasm, because all you have to go by is text.

I didn't read it as sarcasm, I read it as a casual slayer telling us it's more fun to do it casually.

[xpx]

Another few things people mistake about efficiency:

 

Efficiency doesn't mean 100% concentration and crazy methods. Most of the people who consider efficiency and efficient methods take things like that into account- a method which allows half-attention gameplay at 5% less xp is more efficient than a method that requires 100% efficiency. So yeah, if you still think efficiency always means using some crazy methods, you are just stupid.

 

Efficient players are not forcing anyone to also be efficient. If you want to use inefficient methods, sure, do so, however, when any of you tries to say that those methods are the best, i will, ofcource, bring out the flaw in that. If someone asks for advice, i will, ofcource, give them efficient advice, as there is no reason to purposely give them bad advice. If any inefficient person would like to leech from an efficient team, then ofcource, the efficient people wouldn't be happy about it. The way people train skills is their own problem, if you don't want to be efficient, don't ask for advice from other people.

[WeatherMatt]

Playing efficiently doesn't have to mean playing with crazy methods. You can be a perfectly semi-efficient player without doing things like alching planks made by magic in between woodcutting actions, etc. My opinion on that gameplay is that you suck all the interaction out of the game doing that. You may as well be playing with Excel spreadsheets (nothing against Grimy with that statement). But I respect that style of play, even if I never will choose to do the same.

 

But it doesn't mean efficiency isn't good to strive for during every-day scaping. Take slayer, for example. I went and spent the 2 weeks needed to get myself a Chaotic Rapier because I knew it was the best weapon to train to max combat stats with. I got 85 herblore because I knew I'd want the levels anyways, and being able to use super antifires and stewed extremes would help during slayer as well. Better to get them now and use them rather than after my melee stats are finished, after all. That's efficient.

 

I don't cannon or use piety, though. (Trying to save money, I guess) So I'm not what one would consider a "pro" slayer. I don't play the game to achieve robotic, 100% maximum xp gains at the expense of interactivity within the game. I value my clan chat, for example, and don't mind stopping during my travels if an interesting topic comes up. I don't devote 120% of my attention or reaction time to the game just to squeeze a few extra XP's per hour out of my time. I also don't (generally) play 8+ hours at a time, gaining large amounts of xp in a certain skill(s) quickly. So am I inefficient? Some would say yes, others no. But I feel like I get so much more out of the game this way. This is a massively multiplayer game, after all. Embrace that aspect, and you'll find a lot more fun in the game than no-lifing for hours on end or multitasking in between game ticks to the extreme.

[Racheya]

Do what you want, don't hate just 'cause we are better

 

This is exactly what I hate about efficiency freaks.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Do what you want, don't hate just 'cause we are better

 

This is exactly what I hate about efficiency freaks.

why waste time and emotion on something so petty.

[Saunamajuri]

I sometimes play efficiently and sometimes I don't. Generally, I don't care if one is efficient or inefficient. Only thing that annoys me is when someone comes telling me how I am failing when I am not playing efficiently. Why would one care how others play their game?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I sometimes play efficiently and sometimes I don't. Generally, I don't care if one is efficient or inefficient. Only thing that annoys me is when someone comes telling me how I am failing when I am not playing efficiently. Why would one care how others play their game?

Like I said earlier, efficiency generally encourages the overall teamwork of the economy.

if everybody else were efficient, (including OR excluding yourself)

If people were more efficient, they would collect resources and level up faster and gain access to higher level resources, resources would become more abundant.

cheaper bones, cheaper herbs, cheaper godwars items, cheaper everything in general.

 

I do get ticked when people are very anti efficiency.

It means they don't understand that, selling or buying a resource on GE is ultimately helping someone else out.

Generally speaking, if someone buys or sells something on GE, it means they're willing to pay more than what they paid, or willing to sell for less than what they offered for.

The majority of the time, a trade will do the other trader a favor.

[Racheya]

I sometimes play efficiently and sometimes I don't. Generally, I don't care if one is efficient or inefficient. Only thing that annoys me is when someone comes telling me how I am failing when I am not playing efficiently. Why would one care how others play their game?

Like I said earlier, efficiency generally encourages the overall teamwork of the economy.

if everybody else were efficient, (including OR excluding yourself)

If people were more efficient, they would collect resources and level up faster and gain access to higher level resources, resources would become more abundant.

cheaper bones, cheaper herbs, cheaper godwars items, cheaper everything in general.

 

I do get ticked when people are very anti efficiency.

It means they don't understand that, selling or buying a resource on GE is ultimately helping someone else out.

Generally speaking, if someone buys or sells something on GE, it means they're willing to pay more than what they paid, or willing to sell for less than what they offered for.

The majority of the time, a trade will do the other trader a favor.

Actually it would reek havoc on the economy. People would ONLY buy the items that were efficient and, since it's not efficient to make those items in the first place, there'd be no supply and cause prices to completely skyrocket.

[BeNiceOk]

likewise, inefficient gamers tend to suck team play.

In a team, people work on what they're good at, or what they're better at than the rest of the team.

 

I think this is WAY to big of a generalization. You can't really say that because I bind x and y item instead of y and z item that I work any less hard to offer services to my team's support. I may not rush floors, but when I play with a team of friends I work just as hard regardless if I rush or don't. Like you said, people work at what they are good at. An inefficient person may fill a gap that a efficient person cant.

 

Now if you said the team may not progress as fast with some players who don't play at the highest efficiency, that may be true. But to say someone is "sucky" at team play just cause they are inefficient is just silly.

 

@XPX

Efficient players are not forcing anyone to also be efficient.

 

Nobody really "forces" anyone to do anything in this game. However, watch the pictures and help & advice threads for awhile and you will constantly see people who endorse "efficiency" hound people for not doing something "x" way because it's inefficient. Its almost every week we have a new thread on this forum saying 1000 reasons why x is better than y. It may be generalizing on elitism, nor am I saying efficiency is "bad", but I don't see people on the opposite end of the spectrum making posts like that towards people who are efficient.

 

Efficiency is just like religion. Everyone thinks they have the best view on it, everyone else who has opposite views is wrong, and anyone who tells you what to think is wrong.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Actually it would reek havoc on the economy. People would ONLY buy the items that were efficient and, since it's not efficient to make those items in the first place, there'd be no supply and cause prices to completely skyrocket.

Racheya, fundamental rule of economics.

The reactionary force is never greater than the impetus.

If you send a wave at a wall, do you expect an even larger wave to come back at you? no.

Same thing applies to the economy.

yes, prices would rise as more people would only buy things that were efficient.

but it will be outweighed by the overall rise in productivity of all the players.

 

Think about what you're trying to say. Your saying that a rise in productivity will cause a reaction in the economy, that will be so strong, it will completely destroy the rise in productivity that caused the reaction.

A reaction NEVER overwhelms the cause.

 

I think this is WAY to big of a generalization. You can't really say that because I bind x and y item instead of y and z item that I work any less hard to offer services to my team's support. I may not rush floors, but when I play with a team of friends I work just as hard regardless if I rush or don't. Like you said, people work at what they are good at. An inefficient person may fill a gap that a efficient person cant.

 

Now if you said the team may not progress as fast with some players who don't play at the highest efficiency, that may be true. But to say someone is "sucky" at team play just cause they are inefficient is just silly.

Sorry I didn't specify, but i was referring to the overall mentality of an efficient person.

Not specific techniques in dungeoneering which may be efficient or not (rushing vs not rushing, prom2h vs other weapons, etc), i don't want to deal with that discussion right now.

 

I'm just saying, a person who has done efficiency calculations, tends to understand the gains and losses from their decisions better.

you don't know how many times i've done dungeons, to have a single player run off after a floor to go farm herbs.

 

These people simply don't understand the cost if their decisions.

To them, their herb run just cost them ~5 minutes of time, and they gained some money.

Whereas someone who actually does efficiency calculations on a regular basis, knows that he just spent ~25 minutes of time. 5 minutes of his own time, and 5 minutes from each of his comrades.

I like people who THINK before they make decisions.

They tend to be more considerate to groups.

[Racheya]

Actually it would reek havoc on the economy. People would ONLY buy the items that were efficient and, since it's not efficient to make those items in the first place, there'd be no supply and cause prices to completely skyrocket.

Racheya, fundamental rule of economics.

The reactionary force is never greater than the impetus.

If you send a wave at a wall, do you expect an even larger wave to come back at you? no.

Same thing applies to the economy.

yes, prices would rise as more people would only buy things that were efficient.

but it will be outweighed by the overall rise in productivity of all the players.

 

Think about what you're trying to say. Your saying that a rise in productivity will cause a reaction in the economy, that will be so strong, it will completely destroy the rise in productivity that caused the reaction.

A reaction NEVER overwhelms the cause.

Yes productivity will rise but ONLY in certain items, which won't be being bought meaning that people will have to buy overpriced items, to make items that won't sell all in the name of efficiency. I'm sorry but a world where everyone was efficient, ie - everyone did the same thing, would be disastrous to Runescape. RS's economy runs by the people and it NEEDS diversity and inefficiency.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Yes productivity will rise but ONLY in certain items, which won't be being bought meaning that people will have to buy overpriced items, to make items that won't sell all in the name of efficiency. I'm sorry but a world where everyone was efficient, ie - everyone did the same thing, would be disastrous to Runescape. RS's economy runs by the people and it NEEDS diversity and inefficiency.

Wait, why do you think efficiency dictates everybody doing the same thing.

Because it doesnt.

Efficiency dictates you doing something that is productive, and that you're better at than the rest of the community.

 

if everybody were more efficient, it surely would not mean everybody focusing on a single resource.

Because demand would rise for the resource. and the resource would become inefficient for those who cannot afford it.

just look at the economy right now.

 

Frost dragon bones are more efficient for those with prayer brawlers and insane incomes.

Dragon bones are a sort of middle ground.

and big bones are most efficient for the low leveled.

 

Increased efficiency would not mean everybody going OMG I NEED FROST DRAGON BONES.

No, that would not make sense.

[Assume Nothing]

Actually playing RuneScape is more efficient than arguing on a forum about efficiency. Besides, it is your choice. You can be 10 times slower than another player at getting a certain level, if that's 'fun' to you, then do it. Anti-Efficiency is one of the things that annoy me. There is nothing wrong with killing Armoured Zombies instead of Chicken, hunting Frost Dragons instead of Goblins, using a Rapier instead of a bronze 2h sword, etc.

 

Sure, there are efficiency freaks out there, but not every efficient player is one. And believe it or not, being efficient can be fun too. I don't enjoy killing chickens with -64 attack and 0 strength. So why assume that inefficiency is better?

[Naraku893]

I just lol at efficiency nerds. Always complaining people are not doing things right.

[Racheya]

Yes productivity will rise but ONLY in certain items, which won't be being bought meaning that people will have to buy overpriced items, to make items that won't sell all in the name of efficiency. I'm sorry but a world where everyone was efficient, ie - everyone did the same thing, would be disastrous to Runescape. RS's economy runs by the people and it NEEDS diversity and inefficiency.

Wait, why do you think efficiency dictates everybody doing the same thing.

Because it doesnt.

Efficiency dictates you doing something that is productive, and that you're better at than the rest of the community.

 

if everybody were more efficient, it surely would not mean everybody focusing on a single resource.

Because demand would rise for the resource. and the resource would become inefficient for those who cannot afford it.

just look at the economy right now.

 

Frost dragon bones are more efficient for those with prayer brawlers and insane incomes.

Dragon bones are a sort of middle ground.

and big bones are most efficient for the low leveled.

 

Increased efficiency would not mean everybody going OMG I NEED FROST DRAGON BONES.

No, that would not make sense.

Actually it WOULD mean everyone would do the same thing. Everyone would be doing the MOST efficient things and there are very few of the 'most efficient' things. I can't really give examples since I don't know the most efficient ways of doing things.

 

And, of course, efficient doesn't mean the most xp. It can mean monetarily efficient as well. Striking a balance between cost and xp - but it STILL means everyone doing the same thing.

 

This is in a world where everyone does the most efficient thing, of course.

[xpx]

@XPX

Efficient players are not forcing anyone to also be efficient.

 

Nobody really "forces" anyone to do anything in this game. However, watch the pictures and help & advice threads for awhile and you will constantly see people who endorse "efficiency" hound people for not doing something "x" way because it's inefficient. Its almost every week we have a new thread on this forum saying 1000 reasons why x is better than y. It may be generalizing on elitism, nor am I saying efficiency is "bad", but I don't see people on the opposite end of the spectrum making posts like that towards people who are efficient.

 

Efficiency is just like religion. Everyone thinks they have the best view on it, everyone else who has opposite views is wrong, and anyone who tells you what to think is wrong.

In H&A discussions, people are OBVIOUSLY looking for efficiency. That's what the board there is all about. People ask for advice because they want to do things better, otherwise they would keep doing what they find fun. Inefficient players have little to offer for H&A because their methods are always inferior. In most of the ''what is best'' discussions, it's the same case. That's why i said that i'm fine with other people being inefficient, but if the discussion goes to which are the best methods or what weapon(etc) you should choose, don't come up with your horrible methods, because even you know that they aren't the best.

 

Efficiency is nothing like religion, and it's a terrible analogy. People in my country are the least religious in the world, people in some other countries are almost completely religious. Efficiency is something you want to do in order to be successful, or be more successful than others- if you don't care about your levels/goals, efficiency isn't for you. Your view of the world is obviously too much black and white, right or wrong to have a reasoned discussion, the gray area will always be dominating.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Actually it WOULD mean everyone would do the same thing. Everyone would be doing the MOST efficient things and there are very few of the 'most efficient' things. I can't really give examples since I don't know the most efficient ways of doing things.

 

And, of course, efficient doesn't mean the most xp. It can mean monetarily efficient as well. Striking a balance between cost and xp - but it STILL means everyone doing the same thing.

 

This is in a world where everyone does the most efficient thing, of course.

It wouldn't.

Like I said.

Training with frost dragon bones can be efficient for some people, not others.

This is why my spreadsheets require players to input their incomes.

 

Efficiency is different person to person.

 

it is NOT the same for every person.

 

I mean I have nothing left to say, efficiency is NOT the same for everybody.

If you can't believe that, I have nothing else to say.

[Racheya]

Actually it WOULD mean everyone would do the same thing. Everyone would be doing the MOST efficient things and there are very few of the 'most efficient' things. I can't really give examples since I don't know the most efficient ways of doing things.

 

And, of course, efficient doesn't mean the most xp. It can mean monetarily efficient as well. Striking a balance between cost and xp - but it STILL means everyone doing the same thing.

 

This is in a world where everyone does the most efficient thing, of course.

It wouldn't.

Like I said.

Training with frost dragon bones can be efficient for some people, not others.

This is why my spreadsheets require players to input their incomes.

 

Efficiency is different person to person.

 

it is NOT the same for every person.

 

I mean I have nothing left to say, efficiency is NOT the same for everybody.

If you can't believe that, I have nothing else to say.

I understand that efficiency can differentiate by levels BUT with everyone playing so efficiently there'll be a point where everyone reaches the top end of efficiency - at which point the most efficient method say, Frost Dragons, will be the most efficient for more and more people - eventually everybody.

 

I've NO problem with efficiency but I don't believe that EVERYONE being efficient would make the game a better place. It would make it dull and nothing more than a second job.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I understand that efficiency can differentiate by levels BUT with everyone playing so efficiently there'll be a point where everyone reaches the top end of efficiency - at which point the most efficient method say, Frost Dragons, will be the most efficient for more and more people - eventually everybody.

 

I've NO problem with efficiency but I don't believe that EVERYONE being efficient would make the game a better place. It would make it dull and nothing more than a second job.

There is no such thing as a top end of efficiency Racheya, not as you speak of it at least.

A machine can be 100% efficient, sure.

but there's no such thing as individuals reaching peak efficiency when speaking of a group.

You're thinking of things too shallowly.

[Racheya]

I understand that efficiency can differentiate by levels BUT with everyone playing so efficiently there'll be a point where everyone reaches the top end of efficiency - at which point the most efficient method say, Frost Dragons, will be the most efficient for more and more people - eventually everybody.

 

I've NO problem with efficiency but I don't believe that EVERYONE being efficient would make the game a better place. It would make it dull and nothing more than a second job.

There is no such thing as a top end of efficiency Racheya, not as you speak of it at least.

A machine can be 100% efficient, sure.

but there's no such thing as individuals reaching peak efficiency when speaking of a group.

You're thinking of things too shallowly.

I mean that, as players progress through different efficient methods their levels increase to the point where they're left with the highest level say... monster, which is efficient to kill. Players will reach this point a LOT faster in a totally efficient world.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I mean that, as players progress through different efficient methods their levels increase to the point where they're left with the highest level say... monster, which is efficient to kill. Players will reach this point a LOT faster in a totally efficient world.

Okay, lets say everybody does reach the highest point in runescape, ability wise.

Then what happens? clearly there aren't enough spawns for everyone.

Then smaller factors start going into action.

 

Player A enjoys hunting DK's

Player B enjoys Hunter Frost dragons

 

but they are both equal stats.

Guess what the efficient outcome of such a situation is.

player A hunts DKs.

player B hunts frost dragons.

 

Is this what you're talking about? I'm not sure.

 

perhaps you are saying that hypothetically, there are 500 million dragon bones in the economy.

And there are 2 pools of players

 

Both sets of players want the 500 million dragon bones.

And both sets of players are very efficient.

 

But Player pool A are predominantly monster hunters, and if they had access to turmoil, they would use it say, 60 hours a month.

Player pool B are predominantly skillers, if they had access to turmoil, they would use it 2 hours a month.

 

Lets say both are very rich, and are 1 hour of turmoil is worth 500k gp to them.

 

Then dragon bones would simply rise to a point, such that player pool A would be justified in buying the dragon bones.

Because they value the benefits of the extra prayer levels 30x more than player pool B.

 

efficiency ultimately dictates that resources should go to people that need them the most.

[Racheya]

Tbh I'm not sure why we're debating about a 'perfectly efficient world' because there won't ever be one :P

 

Efficiency does benefit the economy BUT total efficiency wouldn't imo.

[Naraku893]

If you have more fun killing bandos than corp then kill bandos.

If you have more fun playing castle wars than soul wars play castle wars

If you want to chop willows and not ivy chop willows

 

simple

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Tbh I'm not sure why we're debating about a 'perfectly efficient world' because there won't ever be one :P

 

Efficiency does benefit the economy BUT total efficiency wouldn't imo.

>_< I was trying to tell you that your definition of total efficiency is incorrect.

Your definition of total efficiency is everybody going after certain resources like frost dragon bones.

 

I was saying, that that would in fact, be less efficient, and most definitely not be "total efficiency"