Racheya Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Tbh I'm not sure why we're debating about a 'perfectly efficient world' because there won't ever be one :P Efficiency does benefit the economy BUT total efficiency wouldn't imo.>_< I was trying to tell you that your definition of total efficiency is incorrect.Your definition of total efficiency is everybody going after certain resources like frost dragon bones. I was saying, that that would in fact, be less efficient, and most definitely not be "total efficiency"I suppose that's correct, the number of people going for something would make it inefficient, moving people to other methods... I will concede that. But I don't think on the whole that a really efficient Runescape would be good. It's not a job, or a company, the main point is that you HAVE fun. Whether that means playing Castle Wars or killing frost dragons... as long as it's what you want to do then I'm behind it 100%. I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy_Bunyip Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I suppose that's correct, the number of people going for something would make it inefficient, moving people to other methods... I will concede that. But I don't think on the whole that a really efficient Runescape would be good. It's not a job, or a company, the main point is that you HAVE fun. Whether that means playing Castle Wars or killing frost dragons... as long as it's what you want to do then I'm behind it 100%.All I've been trying to say this thread is that fun can be one of the goals of efficiency.Typically we just calculate getting the best gp and xp with your time.It does not mean however, that efficiency can be getting the best gp, xp, AND fun with your time.After all, playing a game and not having fun, is most definitely not efficient. I just choose not put fun in my calculations.Because calculating math equations with fun as a variable, is most definitely, not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirHartlar Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I'm not particularly efficient myself but it really annoys me when people come into an argument (such as whether one item is better than another) and say "Lol why not just use what is fun." Pretty stupid thing to say really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrhairychest Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 If you're not being efficient in your game play, you're doing it wrong. Time is money, and you're essentially wasting your cash if you're just chitchatting in world 1 Lumbridge or something, and not actually training your skills. Efficiency - that's what most of Runescape is all about. Without efficiency, good luck actually doing stuff in game... This is completely a completely ridiciulous post . Basically anyone having fun or doing the things that they want to do in the game is WRONG and doing things your way is right because its efficient and you say so? Biggest load of claptrap I've ever read. I've a healthy bank account, I have a great time in the game, sometimes (shock horror) I even take the long route to doing things and I still profit plenty. Why? Because I enjoy it. So that puts two fingers up to your theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony112x Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Efficiency comes into play when there are certain goals involved. The most efficient method is one, which gets you there in the smallest amount of time (factoring in potential gp/h). Then again you might not like that method (not "fun"), so you'll choose another in which case achieving your goal will take longer. Just a matter of how much you want to achieve and how much time you're willing to spend. Personally, I don't see RS as a very "fun" game. It's more of a time killer. My goal is to max out and I'd like to achieve that as soon as possible. :)It's a question of mentality and why you're playing RS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Actually it would reek havoc on the economy. People would ONLY buy the items that were efficient and, since it's not efficient to make those items in the first place, there'd be no supply and cause prices to completely skyrocket.(also to your other posts) For prayer, there is only one efficient method (that is, altaring) and almost all methods are dependant on bones. But taking for example herblore; there are many potions you can make. Herblore gp/xp can't get too far from the average or people won't train with a potion (only making it when they need it badly), reducing demand and lowering the price. The same is true for many other training methods. For example, cutting ivy produces no logs. If everybody would cut ivy then kill frost dragons for money, frost dragon bones would decrease in price (decreasing the income to be made there). At the same time, log prices would go up, causing more people to cut logs instead of ivy. What I said is basically theory of a free-market economy. Of course the GE has restrictions, which make it possible for some items to become 'stuck' with a price. I don't think, however, that any 'efficiency revolution', fast enough to actually hit these boundaries, will happen. If we're going towards an efficient world, it'll be slow enough that the GE is approximately a free market. Closer OT: Efficieny is always relative to a goal. If your goal is to get untrimmed summoning with all other skills level 3, then yeah, do scrolls or something. It's not an efficient way to get 99 summoning, but that was not the goal. If your goal is to get 99 slayer, then use piety/turmoil, repot often, cannon. If your goal is to get 99 slayer while having fun, then we can't help you unless you provide us with a detailed, understandable (objective) description of what you think is fun (which is very hard to give). Such descriptions are rarely included, so that's why H&A topics are often about efficiency and not fun; fun wasn't in the question. Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladewing Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 okay after reading 6 pages of this... first off i like to do things fast, as i said, so most of the time i do things in efficient methods. that's not to say i don't have fun! go look me up in the high scores i'm ranked pretty high at castlewars. i also love killing bosses and being a merchant in world 2, runescape is lots of fun for me the way i play it. now to my main point. i've seen a lot of the "i'm efficient" people's posts, and frankly a lot of them do seem upsetting. in particular some posts along the lines of "you are wasting time" by Sonic and others - this is a game and of course even the efficient people are wasting time. on the other hand the "i'm not efficient" people are equally repulsive. posts by people like racheya that imply that it is impossible for a person to do something like cannon dagannoths and have fun are obviously unfounded. the insinuation that all players that do anything efficient are obsessed with xp to the point that "they cannot look away from their screen lest they miss 15xp" is frankly malicious. cuique suum guys, where's all the hate coming from How to Chin Nechyraels for fast XP and profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsomebody6 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 cant stand non efficient noobs <.< guess they like wasting time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gremmy Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 TL;DR Dragon drops: 82 (2 claws)Dagannoth kings drops: 73Barrows item count: 51GWD drops: 54 (5 hilts: 1x bandos, 3x saradomin, 1x zamorak)Whips: 4Sigils: 1x spectral (FFA), 1x arcane (FFA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirIzenhime Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 @XPXEfficient players are not forcing anyone to also be efficient. Nobody really "forces" anyone to do anything in this game. However, watch the pictures and help & advice threads for awhile and you will constantly see people who endorse "efficiency" hound people for not doing something "x" way because it's inefficient. Its almost every week we have a new thread on this forum saying 1000 reasons why x is better than y. It may be generalizing on elitism, nor am I saying efficiency is "bad", but I don't see people on the opposite end of the spectrum making posts like that towards people who are efficient. Efficiency is just like religion. Everyone thinks they have the best view on it, everyone else who has opposite views is wrong, and anyone who tells you what to think is wrong. That's because people that post in Help and Advice are looking for those kind of answers..... :wall: Fisher/Woodcut------Me-----Miner/crafter----Stabber----Leecher ^Golvellius must be so proud^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PereGrin Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Obviously you want to have fun.So if you define efficiency solely to be the best way to gain the best ratio of gp/xp for your time then you're a moron. Hello clown #2, short time no argue over semantics eh? MSN Encarta dictionary for you.ef·fi·cien·cy [ i físh'nsee ] (plural ef·fi·cien·cies) noun Definition: 1. competence: the ability to do something well or achieve a desired result without wasted energy or effort.emphasis on the highlighted wordsHaha! Never look at the last part of that sentence ever.Bold the middle.Bold the beginning.Tell everybody efficiency means happiness.Tell everybody that definitions of words are subjective.Standardized english is cruel.Make up new definitons of commonly used words.But, for god's sake never acknowledge the last part of that sentence because you'll know your clueless. :lol:Good job. You managed to ignore the fact that what you posted agreed exactly with the people you are arguing against. It takes a special kind of mind to be able to ignore your own shortcomings so readily. So instead of acknowledging that you are mistaken, you call names and spout drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehosaphat Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 If I wanna do something efficiently, I'll ask or just do the calculations myself. If not, please take your efficiency elsewhere, because I will not care to listen to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racheya Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 cant stand non efficient noobs <.< guess they like wasting timeOr they just have fun a way that you don't? I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naraku893 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 cant stand non efficient noobs <.< guess they like wasting time you clearly fail to realize it is a game and you are normally supposed to have fun on a game? not waste away your hours contantly grinding "efficiently" you have no right to call anyone who enjoys the game instead of being efficient a noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajutze Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 You clearly fail to realize it is a game and you are normally supposed to have fun on a game? not waste away your hours contantly grinding "efficiently"So the myth that people have fun while playing games is real o.O. I play games just to kill time. Fun is not an option*. If I am going to kill my time I am going to do it properly (efficiently). *If I want to have fun .. you know .. I'll go outside .. communicate with other people etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naraku893 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 You clearly fail to realize it is a game and you are normally supposed to have fun on a game? not waste away your hours contantly grinding "efficiently"So the myth that people have fun while playing games is real o.O. I play games just to kill time. Fun is not an option*. If I am going to kill my time I am going to do it properly (efficiently). *If I want to have fun .. you know .. I'll go outside .. communicate with other people etc etc. Obviously people have fun on games. But being efficient on them is not important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Kurity Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 But when you start paying 5m for a ring that adds 14lp to your max hit, you do wonder about their sanity, or ability to work out what a sensible price is. 5 Mill took me slightly more than a week of farming to make, and this is with a brand spanking level 3 account (now level 47). 5 mill IS a reasonable price, even for my noob account. And to be honest, its DEFINATELY a reasonable price for someone who has nothing better to buy and who makes 5 mill in a ridiculously short amount of time (when you already have the best armor, you may as well get the best ring). O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troacctid Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I suppose that's correct, the number of people going for something would make it inefficient, moving people to other methods... I will concede that. But I don't think on the whole that a really efficient Runescape would be good. It's not a job, or a company, the main point is that you HAVE fun. Whether that means playing Castle Wars or killing frost dragons... as long as it's what you want to do then I'm behind it 100%.All I've been trying to say this thread is that fun can be one of the goals of efficiency.Typically we just calculate getting the best gp and xp with your time.It does not mean however, that efficiency can be getting the best gp, xp, AND fun with your time.After all, playing a game and not having fun, is most definitely not efficient. I just choose not put fun in my calculations.Because calculating math equations with fun as a variable, is most definitely, not fun.Yeah, see, Grimy is ftw. Going out and posting exactly what I was gonna say without me even needing to have to say it and saving me the trouble of explaining everything myself. It's great. :thumbsup: Read my blog | Follow me on Twitter | Track my XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triquos Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 okay after reading 6 pages of this... first off i like to do things fast, as i said, so most of the time i do things in efficient methods. that's not to say i don't have fun! go look me up in the high scores i'm ranked pretty high at castlewars. i also love killing bosses and being a merchant in world 2, runescape is lots of fun for me the way i play it. now to my main point. i've seen a lot of the "i'm efficient" people's posts, and frankly a lot of them do seem upsetting. in particular some posts along the lines of "you are wasting time" by ____ and others - this is a game and of course even the efficient people are wasting time. on the other hand the "i'm not efficient" people are equally repulsive. posts by people like _____ that imply that it is impossible for a person to do something like cannon dagannoths and have fun are obviously unfounded. the insinuation that all players that do anything efficient are obsessed with xp to the point that "they cannot look away from their screen lest they miss 15xp" is frankly malicious. cuique suum guys, where's all the hate coming from No need to point the finger at people in this thread. They are equally deserving to have their own opinion and say on the matter. I have edited your quote here, and I would respectfully ask if you could please remove their names out of courtesy on your post as well. You can make examples without naming people in a bad light :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Kurity Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 What you're saying is that I should be really efficient, burn myself out, then go have fun. I'd much prefer to just go and have the fun in the first place. I'll worry about how efficient I'm being later. Really because i would much rather barrage at castle wars as opposed to running around casting water surge. The time spent doing some questing, and flipping/farming for some cash isnt really that much, having a much cooler spell to own people with is priceless. O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troacctid Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 What you're saying is that I should be really efficient, burn myself out, then go have fun. I'd much prefer to just go and have the fun in the first place. I'll worry about how efficient I'm being later. Really because i would much rather barrage at castle wars as opposed to running around casting water surge. The time spent doing some questing, and flipping/farming for some cash isnt really that much, having a much cooler spell to own people with is priceless.Gonna have to disagree with you here. Water surge is weaker (and sucky in general), but it's way cooler than ice barrage...uh, figuratively speaking, that is. Ancient spells need graphical updates. Plus, switching spellbooks is annoying. Read my blog | Follow me on Twitter | Track my XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtaurian Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Like Morionic mentioned, efficiency seems to be very stigmatic on these forums. There's much misunderstanding going on. I mean, think about who the main "culprits" are, then go and read their posts on this thread. What do they all have in common? They all mention FUN as being a very important part of efficiency and playing Runescape in general. Not one of them has mentioned spending billions of GP for a 1% increase in exp/h or anything like that. You're all exaggerating, and it's getting very tiring to read. Morionic made a very good post about this very subject a while ago. He said that people who love efficiency and who try to figure things out for other people (e: Grimy's spreadsheets) are actually being INEFFICIENT by doing so. They take time out of their days so YOU don't have to. How many of you anti-efficiency players have used xpx's frost dragons guide? What about Bladewing's chinning nechs guide? TheAncient's dungeoneering guide? I won't even ask about Morionic's spreadsheets. What do all of these things have in common? These players took time out of their days to help YOU, and you thank them by flaming them. To put it bluntly, [bleep] off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonewall337 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 to those who support efficiency, you should get a factory job you have a natural aptitude for it (especially when you spend your free time working on being more efficient...)Actually, I have a job where I purposely come 20 minutes early, because it saves me 30+ minutes later. And you know what? I LOVE MY JOB. There is a mathematical, scientific, testable, and thus provable BEST way to do many things, including training skills. Well people ask for advice, they normally want the best/fastest/most gp/hr way. EG, if I ask about the best way to train mining @ 80 mining, I would expect answers talking about granite (Most xp/hr) and C Gold (AFK, profit, and still fast). I would NOT expect advice about mining copper, or iron. (Unless F2P). If I asked about best herb to grow, I would expect people to take into advice average profit per seed, and profit per run, as well as xp. I wouldn't expect answers based on feelings (Don't grow snapdragons, they may be more profit, but the seeds cost too much). Fun, however, is another matter. That is not only highly subjective, but also what a person considers fun varies over time. I used to love mining. Now I rarely train it. Advice shouldn't be based only on what an individual considers "fun", although that can be a factor. In my case, enjoyment, and AFK-ability is why I'd chose C Gold over granite. Efficiency is about getting the most out of your time. That is why I laugh when people call me a "no lifer". The majority of them, outside the trolls, are probably training quite slower then I am. Granted, I don't always enjoy being efficient in everything, hence why I still go to GWD, and play certain minigames, etc. But remember, whilst you are killing specters without a cannon, tanking them, I'll be finishing my task there in 20 minutes, and profiting more off the time saved then the other saved in P pots. Yet even then, that doesn't mean I'm "better". I just enjoy a different style of play. Even so, making fun of one who is efficient because of whatever you think about them, really makes no sense. Our advice is better (normally) then those who only factor in "fun" or what they THINK is a good way to train, and we achieve more. Its how we enjoy to play. But its still a game. Play how you WANT, but if you ask, we'll tell you the EFFICIENT way, and you make up your own mind if you enjoy it. As my nooby friend ( :D ) above me said, posting on TIF isn't helping us much on RS, but I personally not only enjoy it, but I enjoy helping others achieving their real potential. RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying. [hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Kurity Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Gonna have to disagree with you here. Water surge is weaker (and sucky in general), but it's way cooler than ice barrage...uh, figuratively speaking, that is. Ancient spells need graphical updates. Plus, switching spellbooks is annoying. It may look slightly cooler to you (an ice cube is still way cooler IMO), but freezing 5 people for 20+ damage is way cooler than doing 20 damage on a single target before he charges at you and kills you with claws. O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbyallstar Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 So the myth that people have fun while playing games is real o.O. I play games just to kill time. Fun is not an option*. If I am going to kill my time I am going to do it properly (efficiently). *If I want to have fun .. you know .. I'll go outside .. communicate with other people etc etc. I'm not saying anything about efficiency, but I do want to talk about how "fun is not an option". Are you [bleep]ing kidding me? Do you play any other games but this one? Games = entertainment. Fun is a byproduct of entertainment. You are supposed to play games to have fun, but apparently you treat runescape as a chore or a job. Are you telling me that when I play MW2 on XBL I'm supposed to be efficient at it, and not use it for any entertainment purposes? How the [bleep] do you be effiecient at shooting games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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