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Iconic

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Too many rules makes it seem intimidating, whether they are called guidelines or not they appear like solid rules.

I now think you just don't want to meet anyone new and are trying to deter them.

 

I don't want to meet people who are going to turn up for five seconds, post 'OMG WALL OF TEXT' after reading one opening post and then disappear. The rules should be written in the same style as the rest of the Tavern...and what people who have joined the Tavern have actually said is that they don't know what is going on most of the time.

 

If you want a fluffy rule system to attract people then you could just post 'All Tip It Rules Apply'; it would be completely uninformative and pointless, but easy to read and unintimidating.

 

 

And personally, I don't give two stuffs about attracting or repelling new people, if people want to join, great, if they don't, I won't know about it because they won't post.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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I am inclined to agree with Iconic. I found the rules archimage_a to be overly wordy and large in numbers. Although you bring up some good points, archimage, I'm not sure they're all necessary. I think that for now we should stick to the essentials and if some of those things start actually becoming large issues, we can add them ot the rules at a later date.

 

I would also highly advise against having a list of "Falador Tavern Users." First of all, it would require constant updating to add new users and remove old ones. All lists like that prove to be a pain :thumbdown: Furthermore, what if you have users who show up once in a while but aren't incredibly active? Are they on the list or not? And if they're not, they'll probably feel left out. I think that anyone who hangs around for a bit will quickly get a sense of who the Falador Tavern users are.

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I would also highly advise against having a list of "Falador Tavern Users." First of all, it would require constant updating to add new users and remove old ones. All lists like that prove to be a pain Furthermore, what if you have users who show up once in a while but aren't incredibly active? Are they on the list or not? And if they're not, they'll probably feel left out. I think that anyone who hangs around for a bit will quickly get a sense of who the Falador Tavern users are.

 

Well this was my quandry...Obviously the people need to agree to these guidelines, otherwise they are pointless and will simply be ignored, meaning new users won't be helped by following them.

 

At the same time I did mention that people could be added by a majority vote, and could be removed only after a month of inactivity...and would require someone to say 'I think they should be removed'.

If you are only showing up once every month and a half then I don't see how you can partake in a proper roleplay?

If said person then wanted to rejoin they could with a simple vote...taking one, maybe two days.

 

But ultimately 9. doesn't need to be included.

 

I am inclined to agree with Iconic. I found the rules archimage_a to be overly wordy and large in numbers. Although you bring up some good points, archimage, I'm not sure they're all necessary. I think that for now we should stick to the essentials and if some of those things start actually becoming large issues, we can add them ot the rules at a later date.

 

Perhaps a compact version of the rules could be drafted with the extended version in hide tags. Since many of these issues have been outstanding for some months and it would be good to get concensus before they rear up again.

 

Redraft: (I am rubbish at formatting so feel free to add lists and such)

 

Introduction:

Falador Tavern is a role-playing forum aimed at users who are interested in becoming part of a community of roleplayers.

To join said community all you need is an interest in roleplaying and the willingness to post.

If there is anything you wish to ask then it should be directed to one of these friendly people, posted in the Backroom or asked off the thread creator through the private message system.

 

Falador Tavern Rules:

 

1. Games are run by the Moderator or Mod or the Game Moderator or the Game Master or the Dungeon Master or the Author, or the Thread Creator. So if you see someone being refered to as any of these terms you can be fairly certain that is the person to PM with any questions you may have about the thread/game.

 

2. Make sure your posts are honest, kind and neccessary.

 

3. Don't advertise in other people's threads.

 

4. If there is a problem with someone's game, Private Message them first, if they don't listen, post your comment in the Back Room, and see if people agree with you. If they still won't listen then just walk away...starting a flame war will only end in tears.

 

5. The Moderator does NOT have to let you play.

 

6. ALL Posters must follow the Rules set out by the Tip It Forum.

 

Extended Edition (If you have any questions about the rules, this is the place to look):

[hide]

1. Games are run by the Moderator or Mod or the Game Moderator or the Game Master or the Dungeon Master or the Author, or the Thread Creator. So if you see someone being refered to as any of these terms you can be fairly certain that is the person to PM with any questions you may have about the thread/game.

 

1.2 If you are ever unsure who the Moderator is then post in the thread asking. If you forget please look back over the thread.

 

2. Threads may or may not have their own rules laid out in the opening post.

 

2.1 If they do have their own rules they will be outlined in the Opening Post as fully as the Moderator can, but games are often a work in progress, so if you are not sure, ask!

 

2.2 If they do have rules outlined then the opening post will probably refer to a well known game type, such as Hegemony or Dungeoneering. These 'Types' are based on Tavern Tradition and may look daunting for new players who don't have a lot of experience with the Tavern, but are based on commonsense concepts which are easy to pick up as you go along. The two main types are outlined at the end of this introduction.

 

3. In roleplaying debates can sometimes get very heated, just remember, its only a game, no one's feelings need to be hurt. If you see someone being picked on, and you think it should stop, please PM the person who is posting the mean comments and ask them to stop, this will usually solve the problem. If they are rude or refuse to stop, please report them, including as much information as you can, by clicking on this button, next to the offensive post:

Q9SQ0.png

 

3.1 If you are ever unsure whether or not to post, ask yourself these questions:

Does it Improve on the Silence?

Is what you saying True?

If it isn't True, is it at least Kind?

 

4. Do not advertise your own game on other people's threads. It can be very hurtful to see people leave your game to play someone else's, and very disruptive to the game.

 

5. If you think a game could be improved in some manner, PM the Moderator with your suggestions, if the Moderator agrees with your suggestions then he or she will post, asking if the players would be ok with this change. It is important not to become over defensive about your ideas, a big argument in the middle of a thread can really disrupt gameplay, something nobody wants.

 

5.1 Occassional 'Discussion' threads are started specifically to discuss an individual game. These should only be started by the Moderator as it can be very hurtful to the Moderator if someone else tries to redesign the game while they are trying to run it.

 

5.2 It is important to understand that the Moderator has the final word here. If you are playing a game and disagree with the Moderator very strongly, so much so you think it may cause problems later, then simply post 'I am sorry [Moderator's Name], I disagree with how you are running this thread and I wish to withdraw from the game.' Losing a player is often saddens a Moderator a great deal, but it is important for both the Moderator and the Player to know where the other stands on the issue.

 

6. If you withdraw from a game then your forfit the right to rejoin that game later and MUST ask the Moderator. The Moderator has no obligation to allow you back into the game.

 

6.1 The Moderator is under no obligation to allow any player to take part in a game that they are running.

 

7. It is the Responsibility of ALL Posters to obey the Rules set out by the Tip It Forum. If they forgo this responsibility then posts may be edited or removed and their accounts warned or banned from the whole Forum.

 

7.1 It is the Moderator's Responsibility to run the game in a manner that is coherant and user friendly. If they forgo this responsibility then players may choose not play the game any longer.

 

7.2 It is the Player's Responsibility to play the game is a manner that is coherant and sensitive to the Moderator. If they forgo this responsibility then the Moderator may choose to give the player penalties or may even decide to give up the game altogether.

 

8. These Rules and Guidelines represent a Voluntary Agreement. There is no reward on penalty for following or not following these rules(With the exception of rule 7.). Failure to follow these rules will simply upset the people who agree with them

 

[/hide]

 

Game Types:

Hegemony

 

Hegemony is a game where you act as the ruler of a country, you control troops, research technologies and rule the world! As a game of skill, the objective is to excel your nations before many others. The game can have many variations: Medieval, Space, Napoleonic and Fantasy. Hegemony usually has aspects of AAR's and minor role-playing but at heart it's a game of tactics and creativity.

 

 

Dungeoneering

 

Dungeoneering is a role-play where you post your actions and the moderator decides the outcome of those actions. As a player you can take on different roles and peform different actions. These actions will give you skills which will improve your ability in a certain skill. Dungeoneering is played on the forum or on IRC where it is live and much faster then forum gaming.

 

 

Forum Roleplays

 

A role-play is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development

 

 

Zombie Survival

 

An ongoing debate with over five thousand posts! Discuss your plan in the upcoming zombie invasion.

 

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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How does telling people who's is an active taverner help anything anyway? It's a bit of a useless feature that doesn't really help anyone.

It's a proven fact that people respond better to a smaller amount of guidelines.

One rule is too centralised and often gets broken because of [seperate-issue-I-forgot-name]

two suffers the same issue to a moreso extent

three suffers (optimal for higher penaltys)

four doesn't suffer much

five-seven optimal

eight doesn't suffer much

eleven+ suffers badly

twenty+ very good for higher penaltys

 

 

Archi: Introduction is great and fantastic (mine failed), rules will need revising and love the game types.

the list goes onto 150+ but very interesting read.

[Falador tavern]

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How does telling people who's is an active taverner help anything anyway? It's a bit of a useless feature that doesn't really help anyone.

 

Did anyone except you say thats what it was?

I am pretty sure I said:

9. These Rules and Guidelines have been Ratified by Simple Majority of Falador Tavern Users on the Date _______ And by the Tip It Adminstration Team on Date _______.

 

9.1 Falador Tavern Users are defined as:

 

It is just a 'These are the people who agreed to it, this isn't what one person thinks.'

 

It's a proven fact that people respond better to a smaller amount of guidelines.

Its also a proven fact that people who try to put up shelves without instructions get it wrong more often.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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I say we go about this the same way Toady goes about with Dwarf Fortress. Not actively advertise, but let the epicness of the game(s) speak for itself. Also have a moderate-to-hellish learning curve to sift out trolls.

 

Just my opinion, which may or may not change 5 minutes from now.

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I often find that people who violate the rules do one of the following:

 

  • Don't read the rules, even if they are clearly visible.
     
  • Don't care about following the rules and will violate them even if they know it's wrong.
     
  • Know that what they're doing violates the rules but they get caught up in the heat of the moment and lose a bit of self-control.

It is rarely a case of the rules not being detailed enough.

 

Anyway most of what you've said in your extended version of the rules already exists in the Tip.it Forum Rules and doesn't really need to be repeated. Or if it is mentioned, it can be simplified with a link to the Tip.it Forum Rules for more details.

 

More comments:

 

  • 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2 can all be merged and written in a more concise fashion i.e. :
     
    • If a role-play has specific rules they will be outlined in the opening post. If a role-play does not have any rules outlined then the opening post will probably refer to a well-known game type (Hegemony, Dungeoneering, etc.). These types are based on Tavern Tradition and while it may be confusing at first for new players, the rules are easy to pick up as you go along. When in doubt, contact the game moderator for instruction.

    [*]3.0 is covered by the Tip.it Forum Rules (flaming, harassment, etc.). If you feel it is necessary to be included, it can be made more concise like so:

     

    • Flaming, name-calling and other forms of personal attacks are not permitted. If you see such comments being made, please do not reply to them. Instead, report them by clicking the Report button below the post:
      Q9SQ0.png

    [*]3.1 is also covered by the Tip.it Forum Rules (spamming and flaming).

     

    [*]4.0 is covered in the Tip.it Forum Rules under section 1.4 - Stay on Topic.

     

    [*]6.1 - If I understand this correctly, this rule just shouldn't be there. What you're saying is that the moderator reserves the right to exclude users from playing their game. All users are allowed to play any game. I can understand disallowing someone from rejoining if they left the game since it can disrupt the flow of the game, but everyone should be allowed to play if they haven't left and if they want to play.

     

    [*]7.1 - Seems a bit redundant to me, as it was implied in section 5.0.

     

    [*]8.0 needs to be removed or revised unless certain changes are made. As I highlighted before, there are other sections other than 7.0 which are aspects of the Tip.it Forum Rules and need to be followed.

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- 99 runecrafting - 99 prayer - 125 combat - 95 farming -

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Archi, if the rules are agreed then they should be designed by the populous not just one person.

It's completely idiotic to have that in the first place.

 

Stork, problem is:

Dwarf Fortress is epic, as we used to be.

Now we have had a full two active threads over this past month, one a game that frankly isn't appealing to newcomers because it's on IRC and no-one knows what happens in the game. second a game which is inactive.

We are only going to succeed if we get a playerbase.

[Falador tavern]

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Stork, problem is:

Dwarf Fortress is epic, as we used to be.

Now we have had a full two active threads over this past month, one a game that frankly isn't appealing to newcomers because it's on IRC and no-one knows what happens in the game. second a game which is inactive.

We are only going to succeed if we get a playerbase.

Two active threads over the past month is actually about average for the Tavern. The few newcomers, in case you haven't noticed, have actually played that IRC game ANYWAYS, regardless of your continued griping - as opposed to the forum version of it, which didn't really attract anyone new. (If you're gonna say "loluwrong" to this one, you had better post references.)

The inactive game is just one that hasn't yet started with its new mod/schedule yet.

And we have a loyal playerbase. Me, Mather, Techy, Nex, Earth, Ross, Rocco... the list goes on and on of people who've stuck with the Tavern since they found it. And IIRC, the only people who've been put away by the Tavern are those who'd rather have it accommodate them for their fun as opposed to those who accommodate it and have fun anyways.

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It is rarely a case of the rules not being detailed enough.

I find it is more often the case that people mis-interpt the rules because they are written by people who already know how the system works, thus don't explain it in enough detail.

Or when the rules are based on a traditional understanding which is often subjective in nature.

 

2.0, 2.1 and 2.2 can all be merged and written in a more concise fashion i.e. :

Check.

 

Flaming, name-calling and other forms of personal attacks are not permitted. If you see such comments being made, please do not reply to them. Instead, report them by clicking the Report button below the post:

Q9SQ0.png

Except, as you know, many of the things people take exception to are not actually against the rules... So reporting something 30 times doesn't help, when PMing someone once could solve the problem immediately.

 

And what flaming is defined as varies from forum to forum...So a newcomer who sees a heated debate may feel the rules are being ignored and feel free to break the rules...Which is not acceptable.

As such the defination needs to say LOOK, THIS IS ALLOWED, THIS IS NOT.

You ARE allowed to have a heated debate, you ARE NOT allowed to hurt people's feelings intentionally.

 

4.0 is covered in the Tip.it Forum Rules under section 1.4 - Stay on Topic.

And yet is persistantly ignored, hence why it has been restated.

 

6.1 - If I understand this correctly, this rule just shouldn't be there. What you're saying is that the moderator reserves the right to exclude users from playing their game. All users are allowed to play any game. I can understand disallowing someone from rejoining if they left the game since it can disrupt the flow of the game, but everyone should be allowed to play if they haven't left and if they want to play.

Its a statement of fact. If you want to join a game I do not have to respond to your posts, therefore I do not have to let you play.

Anything else would be akin to slavery...

 

7.1 - Seems a bit redundant to me, as it was implied in section 5.0.

Check, it was only there to reinforce that the Moderator AND Player have responsibilities.

 

8.0 needs to be removed or revised unless certain changes are made. As I highlighted before, there are other sections other than 7.0 which are aspects of the Tip.it Forum Rules and need to be followed.

Check. It might as well be removed then...

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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It would be nice if some people posted in the Help & Introductions thread a little information about themselves and just say there willing to help.

I did the story in a rush (despite the lack of rush) and have used comma's in the wrong place and once to replace an entire sentence so if any Admin would feel like correcting someone... it needs adressing.

[Falador tavern]

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I did the story in a rush (despite the lack of rush) and have used comma's in the wrong place and once to replace an entire sentence so if any Admin would feel like correcting someone... it needs adressing.

I looked over it and made grammatical changes before posting it ;)

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- 99 fletching | 99 thieving | 99 construction | 99 herblore | 99 smithing | 99 woodcutting -

- 99 runecrafting - 99 prayer - 125 combat - 95 farming -

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My god, why are we having a ten page debate on the semantics of guidelines? For christ's sake, nobody cares about the rules. The only rule we need is "try not to be too much of a [bleep]" and it will all fall into place.

This too. I mean, if someone's doing something wrong, we'll typically point it out. If they're not being a [bleep], they'll go along with it and end up playing the game according to guidelines. If they ARE being a [bleep], then it'll end up devolving into "LOL UR GAME SUX I RAGEQUIT" and we won't have to deal with them any more.

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How about: Stickys exist, but aren't stickyed? Its not like a lot of us have looked them in a long time.

 

It would be nice if some people posted in the Help & Introductions thread a little information about themselves and just say there willing to help.

[Falador tavern]

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Let's just leave all is as is. Please! We can stop argueing.

FaladorTavern.png

Youtube account: Earthgragonsage; currently uploading not an effing thing.

[hide=Memorable Crossroads Quotes.]

Reigan: NO MOOSE CAN SAVE US NOW; ...Had that been taken out of context, it would have been comical... Right now, it's terrifying.

[/hide]

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Hi,

If you are interested in joining us, please look here:

http://forum.tip.it/topic/281102-help-introductions/

 

If you are just interested in randomness, please look here:

http://forum.tip.it/forum/9-off-topic/

 

 

You may, of course, choose both or neither.

 

:thumbsup:

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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