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Tip.It Times - 24th October 2010


Racheya

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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

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I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].

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I agree with the dungoneering article in that it certainly would be more enjoyable if teamfinding was more effective, and its true, the mechanisms are in place to a certain extent but the problem comes from nobody using them. However Jagex needs to add more specifications (such as rushing, combat level requirements, total level requirements) to teamfinding options if they ever hope to attract people into using them.

 

The Void Stares Back article sums up what I have been thinking since it's release. But I think the reason for it being a grandmaster quest is deeper then its requirements. After all, they are arbitrary numbers the designers decided upon. What I really think is the reason is so that Jagex can boast having released another grandmaster quest. It's a shame they need to inflate a master quest through requirements in order to do so.

 

At the end of the day, TVSB isn't the quest with the deepest storyline, hardest boss, hardest puzzles or best reward. It only has requirements which are a shallow way to gauge a quests value. It truly is a shame that it was labeled grandmaster as in my opinion it detracts from the value of that label.

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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Wondering if Foodfight's fictional has been finished or is off because of the Hallowe'en-themed fictional? Either way, good fiction, interesting thought by Rach about players needing to be smart, and [even though I'm not P2P] I found wondering about 'GrandMaster' quests to be something to think about.

 

Good stuff. :thumbsup:

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MOST good people use friends and clanchats for teams tbh

 

u need people that know how to rush and know how to rush effective.

 

its not just "oh just kill gds skip all else"

 

but its also coordinating your gatestones. communicating w/ teamates as to moving the ggs and keys around the map and then prepping for boss effectively as u go along.

 

autogrouping could get u anyone tbh not match up w/ people around the same dg lvls and they dont make it 5:5 they could put u into a duo or trio for floors ud do large.

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Article #1: I actually disagree with Squareroot2. I think teams made with the grouping system would take at least two hours to complete a floor. The ragequitters would be in abundance because getting into another team would be easy if everyone used the system. The key to making good, reliable teams is to be very selective about your teammates. A random grouping system would do the opposite, as you can imagine.

 

Article #2: You recapped the plot of The Void Stares Back, listed the rewards of a few other quests, and asked us to give our opinion? I was kind of waiting for you to give me YOUR opinion. I mean, you did, but a one line article isn't very exciting.

 

As per usual, I don't read the fictional articles. No offense. On a more positive note, I can't really see how these articles can cause any huge debates, so I guess the authors will probably be safe this week. Someone's going to prove me wrong, I'm sure.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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why would i opt to go with random players whom i cannot screen for low skill, combat, and dugneoneering levels when i can actually make a team that can clear a large map in 30-40 minutes instead of 90 minutes? i find it shocking that at 75 dungeoneering the author still hasn't realized how bad random teams can be.

 

on the second article: i don't care what quests are labeled as. labels have no intrinsic meaning, and when they are applied to something as diverse as quests. i generally only do quests if the reward is good because i find the text in runescape's quests to be annoyingly detached, and frankly as much as anyone says they aren't much better than other mmos' quests: "kill x mob", "gather y item", "talk to z npc".

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The dungeoneering article is something I was thinking about just the other day, we have this great system for easily finding teams but noone ever uses it. I think it's because people prefer more choice of picking who they want in their team/the team they choose to join, a level 138 doesn't want to go into a floor with a load of lvl 60s for example. Kind of the same reason why everyone who plays barb assault goes into the rooms where you make your own team, and only very low levels go into the auto grouping rooms. It's just distrust of our fellow players :-|

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why would i opt to go with random players whom i cannot screen for low skill, combat, and dugneoneering levels when i can actually make a team that can clear a large map in 30-40 minutes instead of 90 minutes? i find it shocking that at 75 dungeoneering the author still hasn't realized how bad random teams can be.

 

on the second article: i don't care what quests are labeled as. labels have no intrinsic meaning, and when they are applied to something as diverse as quests. i generally only do quests if the reward is good because i find the text in runescape's quests to be annoyingly detached, and frankly as much as anyone says they aren't much better than other mmos' quests: "kill x mob", "gather y item", "talk to z npc".

eh most people dont realize how fail teams are til around like lvl 85 or 86 where i really depended on good teamates lol.....and that was w/ abandoned its prob like 92-95 where people start to care about how fast dg exp/hr is...

 

um i do quest when i feel like it they are better when u feel like doing them but i skip alot sometimes...

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It's good to see the DG grouping system see some attention :) while it is indeed a shame that all the time spent on coding it has been for naught, at the end of the day I feel that there's really nobody but the coders who are to blame for it. My opinion on things such as the DG grouping system is pretty black and white: if it's worth using, people will use it. As it is, there's just too many flaws and shortcomings in the system, some of which have already been pointed out in this topic. I'd like to add the fact that the entire system isn't really intuitively clear - the way rooms are linked to themes and FFA play is just rather abstract, and the fact that the KB article needs five paragraphs to explain the system kind of underlines that. There's really no way to find out about just what the rooms do unless you read about it or just randomly stumble into them for no reason, and as we all know there's many people who don't like reading much at all :P general design principle is that if you want people to use your stuff, keep it stupid simple. Not happening here.

 

But hey, no shame in not getting it right the first time around. Even Blizzard needed two tries to properly nail down their 'looking for group' system. I can almost describe the situation before that by copying a sentence from the article and changing a whopping two phrases: 'people stand around in capital cities shouting an assortment of letters and numbers, waiting for people to whisper them as a request for joining their team' :P

 

So yeah, while there's certainly some merit to an automated grouping system, the current one just isn't cutting it.

 

 

As for the second article, I must admit that I stopped reading it after a few paragraphs 'cause of spoilers. I'm one o f the few crazy nuts who does care for the story behind quests, and I haven't done the void series yet so :(

 

That 'did you know' is kinda scary. I recall making a bit of a detour 'cause I forgot my seal of passage like a week ago, I had no clue you could just lie about things. Duh! :(

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Grandmaster quests are grandmaster quests based ONLY on their requirements. Nothing else. Jagex confirmed that on their game update faq thread on the forums. Maybe it should be labelled by difficulty or length instead but at the end of the day, it's only a label and does not affect the quest in any way. I think it's pointless to complain about what the quest is labelled as because Jagex should be able to label their quests whatever way they want to.

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Well, personally I like to shout "F30 Large 5:5 130+" so the grouping thing is kinda out for me. I would love to use it if there were more options though.

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Dungeoneering isn't a skill.

I'm faster than bots at Sorceress Garden.

PM me if you want to chat. My PM is always off.

My keyboard is on fire. Want some?

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The only places an autogrouping system works generally fall into two categories:

 

-Individual performance is more important than team performance (Stealing Creation)

-Teams are too large to matter and are limited based on strength (Cwars, Soul Wars)

 

Autogrouping will never work for dungeoneering or Barbarian Assault. These things are complicated enough to warrant handpicking teammates.

 

In dungeoneering, teams are small enough so that everyone needs to be on the same page about bound items and strategy. The majority of dungeoneers are very inexperienced, have sub-par bound items, and are clueless about the fastest way to complete a dungeon and the best ways to preserve food.

 

In Barbarian Assault, roles are simply too important to be ignored in making teams.

2496 Completionist

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I really don't think The Void Stares Back was worthy of the title "Grandmaster" quest. It wasn't that long.. the boss fight (while harder than most I suppose) wasn't particularly challenging. The quest was great, and lots of fun, but I don't see what makes it grandmaster at all!

 

And about the first article.. I never really thought about those auto-grouping rooms. o.O Why on Earth don't people use them?? xD I hope people start to now, I sure want to!

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The Dungeoneering grouping system was not a success for the reasons posted in this thread and the article itself. It's not very user friendly and obvious, yet it also doesn't allow for in-depth customization and control. Therefore, you have a system that isn't simple and isn't deep - bad on both sides.

 

Jagex obviously knows this though, and they have said that a simple, universal grouping system will be released in the future. Honestly, matchmaking is rarely good for most type of games. If you have a simple yet robust party system to use, then hand-picking through survey and communication is obviously going to be the best option. For something like Dungeoneering, matchmaking should not even be available, unless you have really high-tech algorithms that match players based on playstyle and skill (which I doubt Jagex would be willing to spend the time and resources on).

 

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The second article was, in my opinion, nothing more than a "glorified" post from the thread regarding the update itself. Nothing in that article was new to me, having read/followed the update's thread when it was started. Everything wingless said had already been brought up in the thread, and beaten to death on both sides. Heck, even the last paragraph made it feel like it belonged in General Discussion, rather than as an article. "Here's my opinion, but what's yours?"

 

Want my opinion, though? I think it's fine being called a Grand-master quest, for whatever the reasons may be. Personally, I don't have the levels for it yet. Something to work towards? Check. From what I've seen, it encompasses a fairly broad spectrum of RS content (Puzzle(s), minigames, and combat). It appears to have an engaging plot. Does it have to take a ridiculously long time to complete to make it worthy of being called grandmaster? Does the boss fight need to be so heavily endurance dependent? Does it need to be all combat and some dialogue, and no puzzles?

 

Personally, I think having to use a special attack to pacify the Queen every so often is a step in the right direction for boss fights. I've always been a fan of interactive fights that require more input than "Whoops, health dropped below X. Time to eat" or "Hey, time to pot up again". It's far from perfected here, but as I said, a step in the right direction.

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First article: i both agree and disagree with this, as a lot of ppl do... The rooms make sense to use if you are not wanting fast exp/tokens... Which is inefficient. So going back to an article a few weeks ago, most ppl tryto play efficiently and using the rooms isnt efficient. Faster at first but after that.... Much less efficient than an elitist team of 'F35 5:5 large 130+ rush'. So for the average lower level player whereefficiency is less issue, they are ok. But for the ppl who reallly want their CR or CLS the hand picked is much better !

 

Second article: i disagree, TVSB is a grandmaster quest imo - difficult boss (at first) until you learn the workings of the fight. But even then. Id still say it was harder than wgs boss. The first wgs boss was a low def, low hp thing that hit hard. The demons were a pi$$ easy fight with the 255 stats you get. As to suggesting BRD should be GM quest, on the reqs i would say possibly - hard fremmy diary done - but the boss.... Easier than TVSB (i died once on BRD cos i lagged out, on TVSB, i RoL'd like 10 times before finally going OTT with sara brews and restores and war tort. [i was using tort with rocktails b4 this thou]).

 

Regarding the rewards of TVSB, yes i know you get less exp than the other GM quests BUT that sword is worth a hell of a lot! Imo its better than a whip cos of spec and str training and metal dragon pwning. As some1 has pointed out, it dominates high level pk - divine tanking with a spec that can hit in the 700s without chance of missing FROM 1 HAND is waaaay greater than the AGS 2h'ed ko spec that has a chance to hit the same imo. [i know u get 2 AGS specs to 1 KS but AGS can and does miss. KS doesnt. Even hitting only 50% your max hit followed by a mage using lunar special bar share or w/e and another 50% - 150% strike will 0KO your opponent - all without needing to remove your other piece of awesome equipment - divine sheild - meaning the ags'er doesnt hit you hard even if spec hits.].

 

Havent even tried NR so cant compare that to it.

 

I know this will probably get me flamed but still, NO I HAVENT GOT A DIVINE. and no i wouldnt pk with it unless i got like 2 of em as drop (and apparently KS helps at corp too so theres another + for it) SO my whole point about pking mayb total BS but i doubt it! And that gives me another point: using the dung sheilds with KS would b similar to DSS.

 

Sorry if i went OTT and away from topic but heh... It had to be said!

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why peopl always mention 130+ imo dg lvl is much more indicator of someones skill of dg lol

 

tho i guess in random worlds its harder to confirm someones dging lvl but yeh it makes a big difference when u have all 100+ or all 105+ dging people on a team.

 

when im with a 100+ team floors are only a lil slower than the speed of a perm team would be when im with a random team filled with some lvl 70-95 dging people its double that.

 

i dont have a perm team due to my friends being in different timezones and dont always do dg so i use cc's to find teams alot.

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OFFT: On Korasi's sword, I hear its not actually 50-150% of your max hit, but 50 lp up to 150% of your max hit. The KB is not reliable, and this has come up so I'd figure just to ask here ;)

 

 

 

Well, on the grouping system, of course it's never going to be as good as a handpicked team. But I think it's a better alternative than crying F35 please! If you have to choose one of those two, the first one would be better imo.

 

 

I didn't read the second artice because I didn't want to get spoiled but it's simple to answer. The VSTB is grandmaster because of its requirements. Nothing, and absolutely nothing else. Why is Nomad's requiem Grandmaster? because of the requirements to kill nomad. Nothing, and absolutely nothing else. And yes, the same goes for WGS.

So I can't see why there would be any arguing about this. And tbh, we already know the system is not 100% consistent, and it's impossible to do so unless you make one category for every quest.

 

 

Fictional, meh, I'm kind of missing a point to it. Combat descriptions never really manage to fascinate me.

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wasnt ew3 a novice quest?? when it had an annoying as hell puzzle that took me gajillion hrs even with a guide.

 

yeh its only about requirements end of.

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