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27-Oct.-2010 Emergent Gameplay letter


Hamtaro

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To your separate note, it would be emergent because Jagex did not impliment it for tournaments, more for a reward to keep after the minigame that can be thrown to another. What players do with it after that is up to them.

Neither of us can know that with a reasonable degree of certainty.

Are you asking me to believe that a game designer deliberately made a gnomeball reward that could be thrown around, and did not consider the possibility of player made games being formed by it?

Sure it's possible, but I'd never wager my money on that sort of possibility.

 

 

I can then say exactly the same about all the other forms people have mentioned previously. Can we say that the developers did not foresee people deliberately drawing in minigames? Can we know for certain about all the other examples as well? We can't. For all we know, all the emergent gameplay listed had been known by Jagex and isn't emergent at all.

 

I agree with your first point (wow look guys, learn, somebody agreeing with somebody else), they did ignore the other forms which people are upset about. However, I don't think this article was aimed at any of them, but aimed more at those that frequent the RSOF and may engage in the forms reported on in the Blog.

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This is not a report on emergent gameplay. It is a report on the communities on the forums which use a form of emergent gameplay. As for the tangible benefits appealing to more gamers, that may be true, but it does not mean the for being reported on is not fun for some people. Why should they be ignored?

 

If you want a straight up report or article on emergent gameplay, I would suggest you write something for the Tip.it times, but the community management team at Jagex focuses on communities based around their forums.

The very fact that they called it an emergent gameplay report is what is ticking players off.

There is a lot of pent up energy from players, due to the fact that Jagex tends to ignore goal based emergent gameplay.

Then they make a dev blog called emergent gameplay, and address something completely unrelated.

It's very insulting to the players who do use goal based emergent gameplay.

Because yet again, their form of emergent gameplay has been ignored.

Flaunting it as a dev blog just rubs salt in the wound. Nobody likes being ignored over and over and over.

 

I think your getting to technical on some of the concepts that your forgetting the bigger picture. Using a gnomeball IS emergent gameplay because you yourself make the rules and constraints of how the ball is used. Jagex may have made the ball intended to be tossed around (the same way overload is meant to boost stats), but its how you use the object that makes the content emergent. Just "tossing the ball around" isn't emergent, but making rules and playing a game where players carry the ball to a goalpost in pvp IS emergent gameplay. Jagex only created the medium of what objects are used, not how they are used, thus it is emergent.

 

Also, Jagex did not state this form of emergent gameplay (btw roleplaying IS emergent gameplay if players make their own roles) is the only type available in game. This article was simply to point out a very uncommonly known part of the game. There should be no reason to get upset about an article Jagex isn't even devoting developer content to.

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I can then say exactly the same about all the other forms people have mentioned previously. Can we say that the developers did not foresee people deliberately drawing in minigames? Can we know for certain about all the other examples as well? We can't. For all we know, all the emergent gameplay listed had been known by Jagex and isn't emergent at all.

 

I agree with your first point (wow look guys, learn, somebody agreeing with somebody else), they did ignore the other forms which people are upset about. However, I don't think this article was aimed at any of them, but aimed more at those that frequent the RSOF and may engage in the forms reported on in the Blog.

am I not allowed to use my intuition to say that it is more likely that Jagex considered gnomeball games as a possibility, than it is likely that Jagex considered pack yak altaring a possibility.

(actually this is a bad example because a Jmod actually stated he did not know that pack yak altaring was possible when he accidentally nerfed it)

 

Can we know for certain that electromagnetism exists? No, it's a principle of science. Therefore cannot be 100% proved.

But we are confident it does because of our observations.

Don't draw arguments based on knowing things based on 100% certainty.

Challenge the confidence in my assumption that Jagex considered gnomeball games as a possibility, but not other forms of emergent gameplay.

That or challenge my assertion that Jagex needlessly insulted a nontrivial part of their community by titling their article emergent gameplay, as opposed to "community support" or something else.

 

Otherwise your response has no place in a productive discussion.

 

I think your getting to technical on some of the concepts that your forgetting the bigger picture. Using a gnomeball IS emergent gameplay because you yourself make the rules and constraints of how the ball is used. Jagex may have made the ball intended to be tossed around (the same way overload is meant to boost stats), but its how you use the object that makes the content emergent. Just "tossing the ball around" isn't emergent, but making rules and playing a game where players carry the ball to a goalpost in pvp IS emergent gameplay. Jagex only created the medium of what objects are used, not how they are used, thus it is emergent.

 

Also, Jagex did not state this form of emergent gameplay (btw roleplaying IS emergent gameplay if players make their own roles) is the only type available in game. This article was simply to point out a very uncommonly known part of the game. There should be no reason to get upset about an article Jagex isn't even devoting developer content to.

My point was their article was offensive to a nontrivial part of the community.

You seem to be talking about something else.

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I can then say exactly the same about all the other forms people have mentioned previously. Can we say that the developers did not foresee people deliberately drawing in minigames? Can we know for certain about all the other examples as well? We can't. For all we know, all the emergent gameplay listed had been known by Jagex and isn't emergent at all.

 

I agree with your first point (wow look guys, learn, somebody agreeing with somebody else), they did ignore the other forms which people are upset about. However, I don't think this article was aimed at any of them, but aimed more at those that frequent the RSOF and may engage in the forms reported on in the Blog.

am I not allowed to use my intuition to say that it is more likely that Jagex considered gnomeball games as a possibility, than it is likely that Jagex considered pack yak altaring a possibility.

(actually this is a bad example because a Jmod actually stated he did not know that pack yak altaring was possible when he accidentally nerfed it)

 

Can we know for certain that electromagnetism exists? No, it's a principle of science. Therefore cannot be 100% proved.

But we are confident it does because of our observations.

Don't draw arguments based on knowing things based on 100% certainty.

Challenge the confidence in my assumption that Jagex considered gnomeball games as a possibility, but not other forms of emergent gameplay.

That or challenge my assertion that Jagex needlessly insulted a nontrivial part of their community by titling their article emergent gameplay, as opposed to "community support" or something else.

 

Otherwise your response has no place in a productive discussion.

 

I think your getting to technical on some of the concepts that your forgetting the bigger picture. Using a gnomeball IS emergent gameplay because you yourself make the rules and constraints of how the ball is used. Jagex may have made the ball intended to be tossed around (the same way overload is meant to boost stats), but its how you use the object that makes the content emergent. Just "tossing the ball around" isn't emergent, but making rules and playing a game where players carry the ball to a goalpost in pvp IS emergent gameplay. Jagex only created the medium of what objects are used, not how they are used, thus it is emergent.

 

Also, Jagex did not state this form of emergent gameplay (btw roleplaying IS emergent gameplay if players make their own roles) is the only type available in game. This article was simply to point out a very uncommonly known part of the game. There should be no reason to get upset about an article Jagex isn't even devoting developer content to.

My point was their article was offensive to a nontrivial part of the community.

You seem to be talking about something else.

 

 

so you can use an argument but I cannot? My point is that we cannot know for certain whether or not any content was introduced with what has become emergent in mind, so saying gnomeball is not emergent due to that is illogical and cannot be argued past that point. I used the example to show how it can be reversed.

 

 

It should not be offensive though. It reminds me of the Johnathon Ross fiasco here in Britain where A radio show received a handful of complaints, but once the media spread word of the show, it received thousands of complaints from people who did not even listen and had never listened to the broadcast. This Blog was not meant for those who are getting offended. It would have been pointless and illogical for Jagex to include non-community emergent gameplay in an article about community emergent gameplay. It's not that they don't care, it's that they were not aiming for these people. It's the same as somebody taking offence at a website naming the 10 greatest single player games of all time and leaving Runescape out of it. The list would not be aimed at runescape so would be illogical to put it in.

 

If somebody takes offence at the blog, it is their own fault and not Jagex's.

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I think I read somewhere that this blog was going to cover one form for emergent gameplay, not all forms. What I understand emergent gameplay as is using content in a way it wasn't meant to be used. Wouldn't roleplaying (poh hotel, etc..) be a form for emergent gameplay?

 

That being said, I do think the blog should have been labeled differently.

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I think I read somewhere that this blog was going to cover one form for emergent gameplay, not all forms. What I understand emergent gameplay as is using content in a way it wasn't meant to be used. Wouldn't roleplaying (poh hotel, etc..) be a form for emergent gameplay?

 

That being said, I do think the blog should have been labeled differently.

 

It would be nice if they touched on the other forms of emergent gameplay instead of the vanilla they posted up.

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so you can use an argument but I cannot? My point is that we cannot know for certain whether or not any content was introduced with what has become emergent in mind, so saying gnomeball is not emergent due to that is illogical and cannot be argued past that point. I used the example to show how it can be reversed.

you made two arguments

1) we should not judge what is an emergent form of gameplay or not unless we know for 100% certainty.

My response is that such an argument would not be valid in a scientific community.

"PROVE ME WRONG" is essentially your argument. That's really something I'd expect from golvellius, not a forum mod.

The fact of the matter is I cannot prove you wrong. That's not going to stop me from thinking that you're wrong though.

 

The point is you've set up an argument that I do not see meaningful resolution to, hence I will not continue in this discussion.

I am allowed to ignore arguments that I see to be pointless am I not?

 

2) the article is moreso about community management.

I agreed with this argument. There is nothing more to say here.

 

It should not be offensive though. It reminds me of the Johnathon Ross fiasco here in Britain where A radio show received a handful of complaints, but once the media spread word of the show, it received thousands of complaints from people who did not even listen and had never listened to the broadcast. This Blog was not meant for those who are getting offended. It would have been pointless and illogical for Jagex to include non-community emergent gameplay in an article about community emergent gameplay. It's not that they don't care, it's that they were not aiming for these people. It's the same as somebody taking offence at a website naming the 10 greatest single player games of all time and leaving Runescape out of it. The list would not be aimed at runescape so would be illogical to put it in.

 

If somebody takes offence at the blog, it is their own fault and not Jagex's.

It's ultimately a stupid business decision is what I'm arguing.

Most non-community emergent gamers read dev blogs.

Because dev blogs (such as the damage control dev blog, or the jad vs chicken dev blog) provide insight into the game, and a useful resource that helps these players with their non-community emergent gameplay.

 

A missionary can post a christian billboard anywhere they want. And sure they could be targeting someone else than me.

But if I'm not christian and I never want to be christian, posting it in my back yard is simply a bad decision.

 

Jagex posted their community emergent gameplay thread in an area that non-community emergent gamers have a strong reason to frequent.

Hence their decision was poorly made.

 

That'd be like posting anti-abortion posters in mecca. It's silly.

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How in the world did this thread jump from "that's not emergent gameplay, that's roleplaying" to "[bleep] efficiency trolls@@#!@$@"?

 

Anyway, that's not emergent gameplay, that's roleplaying. Jagex mods obviously play Runescape. /lies

 

EDIT:

 

Not everyone plays the game to max out and boss hunt so they can buy divines and phats :rolleyes:

Not everyone is uber efficient at everything they do :rolleyes:

Other people like to enjoy other elements of the game. For example, sometimes I just like to relax in the games room and play some draughts or runeversi. So don't be surprised when there are players who enjoy this type of emergent gameplay with their friends.

 

 

Okay, seriously, did you guys click on the wrong thread or something? You two are the first to bring up efficiency. i don't even...

 

OK, MAYBE it is role-playing, maybe it's emergent gaming, we don't know whether or not Jagex intended for people to have wrestling matches in a POH for example. Right?

 

I brought up efficiency because it really disturbs me the first couple of posts by Grimy, Stonewall and Green summed up says "this is wasting time, emergent gaming is cannoning in singles, using BOBs when training prayer, etc". Why is it wasting time? I don't get this, we play the game to kill time, so why is something fun to a group of people considered wasting time? See what I mean? Everywhere I go, I see people dismissing others because they don't play "efficiently" but instead they play their own way. Maybe it is role playing, but who cares? IMO, this type of role playing is emergent because Jagex never intended you to, for example, open up a restaurant in your POH. If you don't find it fun to play inefficiently, you don't have to put down others to stroke your ego.

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No, a good portion of what's in that blog is quite simply not emergent gameplay. For example, tossing gnomeballs at each other is the only conceivable use for gnomeballs. There is no way playing catch with a gnomeball is emergent gameplay by any stretch.

 

By the tone and content of the blog it's abundantly clear that Jagex has confused emergent gameplay and roleplaying, which are absolutely separate terms.

 

 

But making a game out of tossing the ball to each other is emergent. Even here, people are not thinking outside the box. Use your imagination.

WRONGWRONGWRONWRONGWRONG

 

Emergent gameplay is using something for which it wasn't designed. The gnomeball was designed to be thrown. Anything involved in throwing it is using it as it was designed. Alching gnomeballs for mage xp would be emergent gameplay though. Or using it as fiat currency. What you are talking about is making your own fun. Its not emergent gameplay, and I really CBF continually defining terms to people (not saying you here Danz, its on many other threads too) who are too stubborn to listen, and continually apply their own (Incorrect) definitions, and then argue their point, based ON THEIR STUPID, WRONG, ILLOGICAL DEFINITION. If you define terms differently, and I'm right here with my definition, then we are actually arguing different points. Its really moot to continually arguing what EG is, without defining it.

 

BTW Katori is wrong, this is a mmoRPG. Thus RPG was designed. Thus it is IMPOSSIBLE to be emergent.

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OK, MAYBE it is role-playing, maybe it's emergent gaming, we don't know whether or not Jagex intended for people to have wrestling matches in a POH for example. Right?

 

I brought up efficiency because it really disturbs me the first couple of posts by Grimy, Stonewall and Green summed up says "this is wasting time, emergent gaming is cannoning in singles, using BOBs when training prayer, etc". Why is it wasting time? I don't get this, we play the game to kill time, so why is something fun to a group of people considered wasting time? See what I mean? Everywhere I go, I see people dismissing others because they don't play "efficiently" but instead they play their own way. Maybe it is role playing, but who cares? IMO, this type of role playing is emergent because Jagex never intended you to, for example, open up a restaurant in your POH. If you don't find it fun to play inefficiently, you don't have to put down others to stroke your ego.

 

Yeah . . . no one put down anyone in this thread (except for Golvellius attempting to troll, as per usual). You're mad because a couple players voiced their opinions on role-playing, and you somehow inferred that it MUST be because it's inefficient to do so. :rolleyes: The problem that Grimy, Stone, and Green have with the dev-blog is that it portrays ROLE-PLAYING as EMERGENT GAMEPLAY. That's it. There's no need to have an anti-efficiency attack over it. :rolleyes:

 

And a few more of these for emphasis: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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OK, MAYBE it is role-playing, maybe it's emergent gaming, we don't know whether or not Jagex intended for people to have wrestling matches in a POH for example. Right?

 

I brought up efficiency because it really disturbs me the first couple of posts by Grimy, Stonewall and Green summed up says "this is wasting time, emergent gaming is cannoning in singles, using BOBs when training prayer, etc". Why is it wasting time? I don't get this, we play the game to kill time, so why is something fun to a group of people considered wasting time? See what I mean? Everywhere I go, I see people dismissing others because they don't play "efficiently" but instead they play their own way. Maybe it is role playing, but who cares? IMO, this type of role playing is emergent because Jagex never intended you to, for example, open up a restaurant in your POH. If you don't find it fun to play inefficiently, you don't have to put down others to stroke your ego.

 

Yeah . . . no one put down anyone in this thread (except for Golvellius attempting to troll, as per usual). You're mad because a couple players voiced their opinions on role-playing, and you somehow inferred that it MUST be because it's inefficient to do so. :rolleyes: The problem that Grimy, Stone, and Green have with the dev-blog is that it portrays ROLE-PLAYING as EMERGENT GAMEPLAY. That's it. There's no need to have an anti-efficiency attack over it. :rolleyes:

 

And a few more of these for emphasis: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Well, we obviously see it differently because we have different views, so don't :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: at me.

 

Also, some role playing is considered emergent gameplay, depending on how you look at it.

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Well, we obviously see it differently because we have different views, so don't :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: at me.

 

Also, some role playing is considered emergent gameplay, depending on how you look at it.

 

Speaking from a completely objective point of view, you were the first person in this thread to mention efficiency. You can't have a "different view," because YOU brought it up in a thread that has NOTHING to do with it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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OK, MAYBE it is role-playing, maybe it's emergent gaming, we don't know whether or not Jagex intended for people to have wrestling matches in a POH for example. Right?

 

I brought up efficiency because it really disturbs me the first couple of posts by Grimy, Stonewall and Green summed up says "this is wasting time, emergent gaming is cannoning in singles, using BOBs when training prayer, etc". Why is it wasting time? I don't get this, we play the game to kill time, so why is something fun to a group of people considered wasting time? See what I mean? Everywhere I go, I see people dismissing others because they don't play "efficiently" but instead they play their own way. Maybe it is role playing, but who cares? IMO, this type of role playing is emergent because Jagex never intended you to, for example, open up a restaurant in your POH. If you don't find it fun to play inefficiently, you don't have to put down others to stroke your ego.

 

Yeah . . . no one put down anyone in this thread (except for Golvellius attempting to troll, as per usual). You're mad because a couple players voiced their opinions on role-playing, and you somehow inferred that it MUST be because it's inefficient to do so. :rolleyes: The problem that Grimy, Stone, and Green have with the dev-blog is that it portrays ROLE-PLAYING as EMERGENT GAMEPLAY. That's it. There's no need to have an anti-efficiency attack over it. :rolleyes:

 

And a few more of these for emphasis: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Well, we obviously see it differently because we have different views, so don't :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: at me.

 

Also, some role playing is considered emergent gameplay, depending on how you look at it.

 

No its not. You are wrong. An RPG, by definition, allows for Role playing. Thus its designed, and not emergent. Any type of rollplaying is a subset of that design.

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No, a good portion of what's in that blog is quite simply not emergent gameplay. For example, tossing gnomeballs at each other is the only conceivable use for gnomeballs. There is no way playing catch with a gnomeball is emergent gameplay by any stretch.

 

By the tone and content of the blog it's abundantly clear that Jagex has confused emergent gameplay and roleplaying, which are absolutely separate terms.

 

 

But making a game out of tossing the ball to each other is emergent. Even here, people are not thinking outside the box. Use your imagination.

 

 

WRONGWRONGWRONWRONGWRONG

 

Emergent gameplay is using something for which it wasn't designed. The gnomeball was designed to be thrown. Anything involved in throwing it is using it as it was designed. Alching gnomeballs for mage xp would be emergent gameplay though. Or using it as fiat currency. What you are talking about is making your own fun. Its not emergent gameplay, and I really CBF continually defining terms to people (not saying you here Danz, its on many other threads too) who are too stubborn to listen, and continually apply their own (Incorrect) definitions, and then argue their point, based ON THEIR STUPID, WRONG, ILLOGICAL DEFINITION. If you define terms differently, and I'm right here with my definition, then we are actually arguing different points. Its really moot to continually arguing what EG is, without defining it.

 

BTW Katori is wrong, this is a mmoRPG. Thus RPG was designed. Thus it is IMPOSSIBLE to be emergent.

 

What about using the onion coloured clothing with the pupetmaster emote and role playing with that. That would technically be emergant game play because i'm sure jagex had no intentions of having that sort of material in a game with lots of kids playing it.

 

And by your definition then there can be no such thing as emergant game play. BOB's were meant to carry and withdraw items therefor using the withrdrawl option to increase pray xp is not emergant. Or even cannoning multiple targets in single with a cannon since it is designed to shoot cannon balls.

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What about using the onion coloured clothing with the pupetmaster emote and role playing with that. That would technically be emergant game play because i'm sure jagex had no intentions of having that sort of material in a game with lots of kids playing it.

 

And by your definition then there can be no such thing as emergant game play. BOB's were meant to carry and withdraw items therefor using the withrdrawl option to increase pray xp is not emergant. Or even cannoning multiple targets in single with a cannon since it is designed to shoot cannon balls.

 

Emergent gameplay means EXPLOITING parts of the game in ways that the developers had not intended, but does not necessarily constitute bug abuse. It's not just using something, it's EXPLOITING it for some sort of advantage. This is the crucial difference between "role-playing" and emergent gameplay. Sure, Jagex had not designed POHs to be used as strip clubs or restaurants, but using them as such is not advantageous exploitation - it's just role-playing.

 

- Using the withdraw-x option on a BoB to CONTINUOUSLY use bones on an altar is an example of emergent gameplay.

- Using a cannon in a single-combat zone to hit multiple targets is an example of emergent gameplay.

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No, a good portion of what's in that blog is quite simply not emergent gameplay. For example, tossing gnomeballs at each other is the only conceivable use for gnomeballs. There is no way playing catch with a gnomeball is emergent gameplay by any stretch.

 

By the tone and content of the blog it's abundantly clear that Jagex has confused emergent gameplay and roleplaying, which are absolutely separate terms.

 

 

But making a game out of tossing the ball to each other is emergent. Even here, people are not thinking outside the box. Use your imagination.

 

 

WRONGWRONGWRONWRONGWRONG

 

Emergent gameplay is using something for which it wasn't designed. The gnomeball was designed to be thrown. Anything involved in throwing it is using it as it was designed. Alching gnomeballs for mage xp would be emergent gameplay though. Or using it as fiat currency. What you are talking about is making your own fun. Its not emergent gameplay, and I really CBF continually defining terms to people (not saying you here Danz, its on many other threads too) who are too stubborn to listen, and continually apply their own (Incorrect) definitions, and then argue their point, based ON THEIR STUPID, WRONG, ILLOGICAL DEFINITION. If you define terms differently, and I'm right here with my definition, then we are actually arguing different points. Its really moot to continually arguing what EG is, without defining it.

 

BTW Katori is wrong, this is a mmoRPG. Thus RPG was designed. Thus it is IMPOSSIBLE to be emergent.

 

What about using the onion coloured clothing with the pupetmaster emote and role playing with that. That would technically be emergant game play because i'm sure jagex had no intentions of having that sort of material in a game with lots of kids playing it.

 

And by your definition then there can be no such thing as emergant game play. BOB's were meant to carry and withdraw items therefor using the withrdrawl option to increase pray xp is not emergant. Or even cannoning multiple targets in single with a cannon since it is designed to shoot cannon balls.

 

Emergent gameplay=/= roleplaying.

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But it doesn't work. There are no safespots at frost dragons.

 

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Honestly, do you guys argue just for the sake of arguing?

Of course they do.

Our self proclaimed experts prance in here, call every thing stupid/wrong, then argue semantics, make up new meanings for words when it doesn't quite work out, and finally cut and paste incoherent crap they find from other self-made experts on wikipedia when the house of cards starts to wobble.

Before you know it they fill up page after page with this idiocracy.

I'm sure this thread is heading for page thirty something of "what is emergent?" just like "what is efficiency?".

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Not a safespot, you can still be attacked by dragons on the other side. I commend you for making a fool of yourself once again, yet still not feeling embarrassed.

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What about using the onion coloured clothing with the pupetmaster emote and role playing with that. That would technically be emergant game play because i'm sure jagex had no intentions of having that sort of material in a game with lots of kids playing it.

 

And by your definition then there can be no such thing as emergant game play. BOB's were meant to carry and withdraw items therefor using the withrdrawl option to increase pray xp is not emergant. Or even cannoning multiple targets in single with a cannon since it is designed to shoot cannon balls.

 

Emergent gameplay means EXPLOITING parts of the game in ways that the developers had not intended, but does not necessarily constitute bug abuse. It's not just using something, it's EXPLOITING it for some sort of advantage. This is the crucial difference between "role-playing" and emergent gameplay. Sure, Jagex had not designed POHs to be used as strip clubs or restaurants, but using them as such is not advantageous exploitation - it's just role-playing.

 

- Using the withdraw-x option on a BoB to CONTINUOUSLY use bones on an altar is an example of emergent gameplay.

- Using a cannon in a single-combat zone to hit multiple targets is an example of emergent gameplay.

 

So, by definition, 76king and Wind Bolting = Emergent gameplay? Or manipulation clans?

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What about using the onion coloured clothing with the pupetmaster emote and role playing with that. That would technically be emergant game play because i'm sure jagex had no intentions of having that sort of material in a game with lots of kids playing it.

 

And by your definition then there can be no such thing as emergant game play. BOB's were meant to carry and withdraw items therefor using the withrdrawl option to increase pray xp is not emergant. Or even cannoning multiple targets in single with a cannon since it is designed to shoot cannon balls.

 

Emergent gameplay means EXPLOITING parts of the game in ways that the developers had not intended, but does not necessarily constitute bug abuse. It's not just using something, it's EXPLOITING it for some sort of advantage. This is the crucial difference between "role-playing" and emergent gameplay. Sure, Jagex had not designed POHs to be used as strip clubs or restaurants, but using them as such is not advantageous exploitation - it's just role-playing.

 

- Using the withdraw-x option on a BoB to CONTINUOUSLY use bones on an altar is an example of emergent gameplay.

- Using a cannon in a single-combat zone to hit multiple targets is an example of emergent gameplay.

 

So, by definition, 76king and Wind Bolting = Emergent gameplay? Or manipulation clans?

 

In a sense, yes. Emergent gameplay isn't by definition good. It can be deleterious. Of course, then you get into the what is/isn't deleterious debate.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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Not a safespot, you can still be attacked by dragons on the other side. I commend you for making a fool of yourself once again, yet still not feeling embarrassed.

 

Proof that Golvellius knows more than me

 

LOL...

Whats the dps of cannon genius? (hint if your not in combat then the cannon goes multi and will lay up to 6 strikes per rotation on a single dragon thats moving overtop the thing)

Best way to kill frost dragons and actually get 200 kills an hour not just fiction from XpXtroll is let the cannon do the work.

Hide behind the rocks in the sw and let the cannon roll.

Only come out when there is only one dragon left, or a dragon goes around the rocks from the south and attacks, or the cannon runs out of ammo.

Doesn't matter if you have rapier, spear, or cls.

Your dps sucks compared to the cannon when its working in multi mode (aka your not in combat or it really is a multiway zone).

Learn to compliment the cannon, not the cannon compliments you.

Exclusive Legacy Mode Player

 

Golvellius.png


He just successfully trolled you with "courtesy" and managed to get a reaction out of you. Lol

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Ah, so your safespot works until you're attacked (because it's not a real safespot), at which point your cannon goes into single-combat mode for a significant amount of time. Yeah, you're pro! :rolleyes:

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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Not a safespot, you can still be attacked by dragons on the other side. I commend you for making a fool of yourself once again, yet still not feeling embarrassed.

 

Proof that Golvellius knows more than me

 

LOL...

Whats the dps of cannon genius? (hint if your not in combat then the cannon goes multi and will lay up to 6 strikes per rotation on a single dragon thats moving overtop the thing)

Best way to kill frost dragons and actually get 200 kills an hour not just fiction from XpXtroll is let the cannon do the work.

Hide behind the rocks in the sw and let the cannon roll.

Only come out when there is only one dragon left, or a dragon goes around the rocks from the south and attacks, or the cannon runs out of ammo.

Doesn't matter if you have rapier, spear, or cls.

Your dps sucks compared to the cannon when its working in multi mode (aka your not in combat or it really is a multiway zone).

Learn to compliment the cannon, not the cannon compliments you.

 

 

But it doesn't work. There are no safespots at frost dragons.

 

 

Was talking about that. You seem to think I am talking about something else. You are wrong. End of story.

Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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Not a safespot, you can still be attacked by dragons on the other side. I commend you for making a fool of yourself once again, yet still not feeling embarrassed.

 

Proof that Golvellius knows more than me

 

LOL...

Whats the dps of cannon genius? (hint if your not in combat then the cannon goes multi and will lay up to 6 strikes per rotation on a single dragon thats moving overtop the thing)

Best way to kill frost dragons and actually get 200 kills an hour not just fiction from XpXtroll is let the cannon do the work.

Hide behind the rocks in the sw and let the cannon roll.

Only come out when there is only one dragon left, or a dragon goes around the rocks from the south and attacks, or the cannon runs out of ammo.

Doesn't matter if you have rapier, spear, or cls.

Your dps sucks compared to the cannon when its working in multi mode (aka your not in combat or it really is a multiway zone).

Learn to compliment the cannon, not the cannon compliments you.

 

 

But it doesn't work. There are no safespots at frost dragons.

 

 

Was talking about that. You seem to think I am talking about something else. You are wrong. End of story.

 

Self-contradiction win. It's like saying you can't get hit, until you get attacked (probably a crap analogy, but it's 2am)

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Ah, so your safespot works until you're attacked (because it's not a real safespot), at which point your cannon goes into single-combat mode for a significant amount of time. Yeah, you're pro! :rolleyes:

 

Why don't you go back to arguing semantics on the word emergent?

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

There is a big picture in front of your face in but your too blind to see it.

Like the old saying goes, you can always lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Exclusive Legacy Mode Player

 

Golvellius.png


He just successfully trolled you with "courtesy" and managed to get a reaction out of you. Lol

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