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An Elitist's View on Crashing


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#41
SirIzenhime
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What I really hate is those that crash someone without even taking the time to look for an open world. If I spend the time to find a world with no one else at TDs (which is actually very easy to do), and if I'm there for an hour or two, then some random person comes without even attempting to find an open spot, it makes me mad. And why shouldn't I be mad? I have as much right to kill them as anyone else does.

Yes, sometimes you have to crash because there's simply no other option, such as bandos, but at least take the time to hop a few times, and see if you can't find a world. It's just completely rude to not do so, because chances are, that's what the people you're crashing did when they started their trip.

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#42
Jesus_Status
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Personally I don't mind when a solo crasher tries to crash me because if he does beat me well then kudos to him...What Pisses me off is when I'm soloing and a team comes along, No matter what you use 90% of the time your going to lose to a team. Personally I only crash if I hop 5 worlds and non are open then in my mind it will be acceptable for me to crash. The only exception to this rule is when I'm doing a spirit mage task if there is someone or even a team at Zammy I'll hop in every 40 kc I get and spec out the boss...this only works about 50% of the time though.

#43
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And thus why I really do hate threads like these. Because it's generally one guy (or a group of people) stroking their e-peenors whilst claiming some kind of entitlement complex because they've spent X amount of days in-game, have X stats and X items and. Having better armor "entitles" you to get hit less (or in the case of mage/range armor, hit more often). Having better weapons "entitles" you to hit harder or more often. Having a higher herblore "entitles" you to make better pots, which can either let you hit more often, hit higher or stay in an area longer then you would be able to otherwise. Having better armor or stats then someone else doesn't "entitle" you to any spot or monster, nor does it "entitle" you to be a [cabbage] in-game.

And I could only shake my head at the above emphasized.


Wait. So why do you play an MMO again?

Also, I have the same opinion of certain things in real life. If I feel like someone's wasting my time for something I don't think is worthy, I don't put up with their crap.

What I really hate is those that crash someone without even taking the time to look for an open world. If I spend the time to find a world with no one else at TDs (which is actually very easy to do), and if I'm there for an hour or two, then some random person comes without even attempting to find an open spot, it makes me mad. And why shouldn't I be mad? I have as much right to kill them as anyone else does.


I agree with you - it's pretty easy to find a single open spot for TD's, and crashing for just 1 spot is kind of unneeded and silly.

The problem with TD's is when someone uses two spawns with the Steel Titan method, like I do. It's pretty hard to find a totally empty world, and if only one of the spawns is being used I'll sometimes crash depending on the person's gear.
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#44
Dragonlordjl
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Take heed at the fact that I didn't say that you said that the only reason people raised their stats or got better equipment was to MH.

Anyway, thank you for proving my point. Your "part of the reason - incentive, even - of getting better equipment and stats is earning the right to crash people" line was in error, because crashing plays no part in the majority of the Runescape population's decision to level up or to obtain better items. As it stands, you can't really justify anything you've typed out except to say that you think that you have more of a right to kill some monster then someone else because you've got better equipment/stats then they do which, quite honestly, is pretty sad.

And thus why I really do hate threads like these. Because it's generally one guy (or a group of people) stroking their e-peenors whilst claiming some kind of entitlement complex because they've spent X amount of days in-game, have X stats and X items and. Having better armor "entitles" you to get hit less (or in the case of mage/range armor, hit more often). Having better weapons "entitles" you to hit harder or more often. Having a higher herblore "entitles" you to make better pots, which can either let you hit more often, hit higher or stay in an area longer then you would be able to otherwise. Having better armor or stats then someone else doesn't "entitle" you to any spot or monster, nor does it "entitle" you to be a [cabbage] in-game.

And I could only shake my head at the above emphasized.


I used to feel like this, I really did. I used to loathe the hell out of crashers. But once you have done a fair amount of boss hunting, you come to realize that you're either the jerk or the victim. It's honestly survival-of-the-fittest, you are either strong enough to take a world or you will lose the world you have sooner or later, because there are way more people who want to do GWD than there are worlds (and spawns) available. Thanks to the EXP weekend, a large amount of people have access to overloads and high-level familiars, so the competition at all lucrative bosses is very tough.
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#45
Squisher_33
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i wonder at what point corp soloers will have to worry about crashers, eventualy there will be a point where most non ls worlds have a corp soloer in them, probably if a chaotic spear gets released

it would be amusing to see what happens in a solo vs solo corp crash off

problem here is no corp soloer is a pushover so even if your totaly maxed and elite, the other guy is probably as good or better

also since corp tends to tank the one whos doing more dmg, then it would usualy be an even fight dmg wise with them both taking turms doing most dmg then getting tanked as the other does more dmg

now that would be truly amusing to see, bandos crash offs are only a few seconds of no fun at all, just a damage off while poor graardor doesnt know what to do


a solution to the bandos boss problem, and to future bosses would be instanced bosses, this would be a boss for every player and would avoid the "bottle neck effect"
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#46
Dragonlordjl
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i wonder at what point corp soloers will have to worry about crashers, eventualy there will be a point where most non ls worlds have a corp soloer in them, probably if a chaotic spear gets released

it would be amusing to see what happens in a solo vs solo corp crash off

problem here is no corp soloer is a pushover so even if your totaly maxed and elite, the other guy is probably as good or better

also since corp tends to tank the one whos doing more dmg, then it would usualy be an even fight dmg wise with them both taking turms doing most dmg then getting tanked as the other does more dmg

now that would be truly amusing to see, bandos crash offs are only a few seconds of no fun at all, just a damage off while poor graardor doesnt know what to do


a solution to the bandos boss problem, and to future bosses would be instanced bosses, this would be a boss for every player and would avoid the "bottle neck effect"


I've long been in favor of "instanced" bosses. The issue lies with if there is an instanced boss, they'd need to make the boss either extremely difficult to kill or make the drops extremely rare, else the drops would be really cheap.
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#47
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I've long been in favor of "instanced" bosses. The issue lies with if there is an instanced boss, they'd need to make the boss either extremely difficult to kill or make the drops extremely rare, else the drops would be really cheap.


Another interesting idea would be to make the boss have a better droprate if you're CSing or LSing. Granted, the boss would also have to be as hard to fight in a group as solo.
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#48
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Someone who has raised their combat stats to kill mithril dragons didn't raise their combat stats to crash anyone, nor did crashing anyone have anything to do with their decision to raise their combat stats.


The majority of monsters in RS are single combat. But what about boss hunting? Like I pointed out, all major bosses are multicombat. And if you're maxed melee and killing mith dragons not as a slayer task, you're probably doing something wrong.


Wait, what? It was bad enough that your argument was somehow predicated on the faulty notion that people get higher levels and better armor/weapons to crash people (the fact that not everyone crashes, and not everyone goes to multi-combat areas renders that notion decidedly false), but now you're assuming that the purpose of getting high stats is to fight certain boss monsters?

Anyway, what about boss hunting? You've yet to prove that the purpose of getting better equipment and stats is the crash someone. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason you can't prove it is because it's not true, and is something you have merely assumed to be true for the purpose of your rant.


I really hate to get in a long flamey thread chain, but I kind of feel compelled to respond.

I didn't explicitly say that the exclusive purpose to get better stats/equipment is solely to MH. People get armor / stats to show off, for the feeling of accomplishment, and a lot of other things. What I did say is that some people (like me) did in fact train solely to MH. And when I'm monster hunting, I claim my stake in spawns that I want because I worked for it. You may want my spawn, and I'd give it to you if I felt like you earned it - but until you have, don't complain.


Take heed at the fact that I didn't say that you said that the only reason people raised their stats or got better equipment was to MH.

Anyway, thank you for proving my point. Your "part of the reason - incentive, even - of getting better equipment and stats is earning the right to crash people" line was in error, because crashing plays no part in the majority of the Runescape population's decision to level up or to obtain better items. As it stands, you can't really justify anything you've typed out except to say that you think that you have more of a right to kill some monster then someone else because you've got better equipment/stats then they do which, quite honestly, is pretty sad.

And thus why I really do hate threads like these. Because it's generally one guy (or a group of people) stroking their e-peenors whilst claiming some kind of entitlement complex because they've spent X amount of days in-game, have X stats and X items and. Having better armor "entitles" you to get hit less (or in the case of mage/range armor, hit more often). Having better weapons "entitles" you to hit harder or more often. Having a higher herblore "entitles" you to make better pots, which can either let you hit more often, hit higher or stay in an area longer then you would be able to otherwise. Having better armor or stats then someone else doesn't "entitle" you to any spot or monster, nor does it "entitle" you to be a [cabbage] in-game.

And I could only shake my head at the above emphasized.


He's not doing a good job of explaining exactly what it means but I'll simplify it. The purpose of leveling up (besides having fun, unlocking other content, etc) is to access higher leveled monsters and more lucrative drops. However, past level about level 70-80 in any skill you have access to everything in the game, so levels past that point are for the sole purpose of being able to more efficiently play content you've already unlocked.

This efficiency drives all players forward. It is the sole reason why people choose to train stats above the level 80 mark - to do better at high level content. Let's single out Tormented Demons (though DKs are fairly close in hourly profit) - they are unlocked after playing through most quests and getting a few stats in the 70s. A player at this level will only kill perhaps 10-15 demons per hour with subpar stats and equipment. The long term kills per hour average for the best gear with maxed stats is 45. Killing monsters three times as fast is an incentive in itself. If TDs spawned in an instanced area in which players didn't have to compete, high levels would pay off normally.

However, with the release of Ancient Effigies this simply isn't the case. After Elite Clues are released next week (unless Jagex shows an unprecedented amount of foresight), killing TDs will be the most rewarding activity in the game by leaps and bounds. Elite Clues could push hourly profit up to 8 figures depending on the GE price of new items, an unheard of average. Ancient Effigies give 90k noncombat experience each plus a dragonkin lamp on top of that, making TDs a surprisingly fast source of hourly experience for noncombats. It's not surprising, therefore, that TDs are becoming packed on every world. Even less efficient players are spending their time wisely by killing them.

The problem is that while there are numerous spots in the chamber to kill a single Tormented Demon, there are a limited number of spaces where multiple TDs can be easily killed at once. These spots are then often taken by level 110 players using a whip and broad bolts, killing one spawn at a time for that 15 kills/hour rate. In this situation, being able to more efficiently play high level content alllows you to play the content in the first place when competition limits the number of players that can do so.

For the longest time I didn't crash anywhere. I stopped going to Bandos GWD, crash city, because the profits with a team are abysmal. If a place is crowded to the point of crashing, it is probably not efficient for moneymaking/training anymore. But this isn't true for the case of TDs or DKs, two places where I am now willing the crash the lowest of the lows I see after a few world hops. I'll honestly try to find a world, but if I can't, I'm sorry - if you can't use a spot to its full potential, and this spot is being widely camped to its full potential, prepare to compete for your spot.

2496 Completionist


#49
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ass.

#50
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All this crashing [cabbage] is why I like Frost Drags so much tbh(that and a 476 dry streak at TDs). Only like 3.5k-4k people with 85 Dungeon, and I guess most of them are competing at TDs/GWD since Frosts seem deserted.


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#51
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ass.

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#52
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I wonder if Jagex should do a couple instanced versions of a boss per world. So rather than having 1 Kree'arra per world, have 5 or so. Place a portal at the door and you could enter one of the 5 instances through it (allowing you to see how many players is in each instance of that boss before going in). That's just an example off the top of my head, but that sort of thing would help; Bandos is full pretty much all the time in every single LS world and I know other bosses are generally pretty full.

I don't approve of crashing really, but it's a dog-eat-dog world, so whatever.

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#53
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I'd be fine with getting crashed if I thought that the person crashing me legitimately tried to find an open world, but I know that they almost never do. Apparently when you're a high enough level to crash and you're a huge [wagon] (see OP) then it's no longer your responsibility to look for an open world.

Happens to me all the time slaying, even on tasks that I know more than half the worlds are totally empty.

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#54
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I'd be fine with getting crashed if I thought that the person crashing me legitimately tried to find an open world, but I know that they almost never do. Apparently when you're a high enough level to crash and you're a huge [wagon] (see OP) then it's no longer your responsibility to look for an open world.

Happens to me all the time slaying, even on tasks that I know more than half the worlds are totally empty.


How do you know the person didnt try to hop? There's very little way of knowing.

Also, at places like DK's and Bandos you can almost bet on every single world being full during peak hours. Once you've done enough of those, you'll know what I mean. For smaller things like slayer where there isn't really a reason to crash, I'd totally agree with you
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#55
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I support this thread.
Everybody that disagrees is a tool :)
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#56
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I wonder if Jagex should do a couple instanced versions of a boss per world. So rather than having 1 Kree'arra per world, have 5 or so. Place a portal at the door and you could enter one of the 5 instances through it (allowing you to see how many players is in each instance of that boss before going in). That's just an example off the top of my head, but that sort of thing would help; Bandos is full pretty much all the time in every single LS world and I know other bosses are generally pretty full.

I don't approve of crashing really, but it's a dog-eat-dog world, so whatever.


That would create a lot of unwanted side effects like lowering the price of the drops. Bandos gear (and most GWD gear) is stable because that particular boss is already being killed at peak rate on most worlds. Not necessarily a bad thing if it reduces crashing, but it's something to think about.

Perhaps they should simply create a new boss monster. It's long overdue.

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#57
Aneron
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i wonder at what point corp soloers will have to worry about crashers, eventualy there will be a point where most non ls worlds have a corp soloer in them, probably if a chaotic spear gets released

it would be amusing to see what happens in a solo vs solo corp crash off

problem here is no corp soloer is a pushover so even if your totaly maxed and elite, the other guy is probably as good or better

also since corp tends to tank the one whos doing more dmg, then it would usualy be an even fight dmg wise with them both taking turms doing most dmg then getting tanked as the other does more dmg

now that would be truly amusing to see, bandos crash offs are only a few seconds of no fun at all, just a damage off while poor graardor doesnt know what to do


a solution to the bandos boss problem, and to future bosses would be instanced bosses, this would be a boss for every player and would avoid the "bottle neck effect"


sara solo is a lot easier than corp solo and last time I checked it's pretty easy to find worlds for that. :P unless corp becomes much easier people looking to solo are going to go elsewhere. right now sara is empty because it is more difficult than bandos and less rewarding than arma. corp is empty because it is waaay harder than anything else, and probaby not much more gp/hr than something like TDs because of the huge expenditures involved with supplies and probable deaths. I don't see any feasible update changing this.

anyways ontopic, it seems like the majority of people are of the curious opinion that getting there first gives you the right to kill the boss. i don't see anything unreasonable about the claim that it is not this, but the ability to kill the boss better than anyone else that conveys this right. it doesn't seem pigheaded to me, just logical.

#58
iRed
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Crashing is fun and more efficient. I agree that since I am superior I will crash you, for it's your own fault. Just my point of view, and to everyone else, you guys will understand where we "crashers" come from once you get to this same point. Crashing is a way to put your work and energy into something useful and worthwhile.
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#59
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my view is it depends if a 138 crashes a 110 it doesnt really matter as much a 110 shuld be working on training up thier combat skills
if a 138 with chaotic weapon and claws trys to crash a 138 with a chaotic weapon and claws at bandos its a waste of time..=p

it depends time of day too......yeh i think on weekends thier will be like everyone at godwars and at nite time but in rally late or early morning more likely to find a world =p

and no you don needa monsterhunt and boss for lvl 138 ;p or at least 136 + try and get lvls to monsterhunt efficiently....and gear too

#60
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Lol crashing is fun. Best reason right there.

For the instance of light house daggonaths, who doesn't like to see the noobs rage when you put down a cannon?
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