An Elitist's View on Crashing

[db300]

All of this talk in the OP about "earning the right" made me chuckle. Runescape...serious business.

[Hedgehog]

Sure, crashing is wrong in single combat areas where there is little to no competition, but in certain situations, such as boss hunting or during one of those crowded tasks, crashing is acceptable. If you can't find an empty spot, why should you sacrifice your xp when you can sacrifice someone else? It may be selfish, but in a game where he concept of survival of the fittest is so strong, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Obviously if you have been crashed you didn't like it. And why should you? Imagine that you own a small business, then a big corporation opens up next door. You're not going to be able to compete and you are going to lose your business. That is wrong. There is very little argument there, since the big corporation is threatening your livelihood. But in a game, there is no such thing as a livelihood. If a 138 crashes a level 110 at Bandos, no one is going to lose their house, or their business, or their family, or their own life, or their possessions, no one will lose anything. It's really not a big deal. If you think it is, it's only because you liken it to the example I gave about the big corporation. Runescape is a game and should only be compared to real life in the rarest of situations, this not being one of them.

 

That is my opinion, nothing can change it.

[Darkkalphite]

Sure, crashing is wrong in single combat areas where there is little to no competition, but in certain situations, such as boss hunting or during one of those crowded tasks, crashing is acceptable. If you can't find an empty spot, why should you sacrifice your xp when you can sacrifice someone else? It may be selfish, but in a game where he concept of survival of the fittest is so strong, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Obviously if you have been crashed you didn't like it. And why should you? Imagine that you own a small business, then a big corporation opens up next door. You're not going to be able to compete and you are going to lose your business. That is wrong. There is very little argument there, since the big corporation is threatening your livelihood. But in a game, there is no such thing as a livelihood. If a 138 crashes a level 110 at Bandos, no one is going to lose their house, or their business, or their family, or their own life, or their possessions, no one will lose anything. It's really not a big deal. If you think it is, it's only because you liken it to the example I gave about the big corporation. Runescape is a game and should only be compared to real life in the rarest of situations, this not being one of them.

 

That is my opinion, nothing can change it.

Lrn2Metaphor. I'm not saying being crashed on RS is anywhere close to RL =.=

[Obtaurian]

Lrn2Metaphor. I'm not saying being crashed on RS is anywhere close to RL =.=

 

As Hedge explained, that's exactly why it's a bad metaphor. :rolleyes:

[Hedgehog]

Sure, crashing is wrong in single combat areas where there is little to no competition, but in certain situations, such as boss hunting or during one of those crowded tasks, crashing is acceptable. If you can't find an empty spot, why should you sacrifice your xp when you can sacrifice someone else? It may be selfish, but in a game where he concept of survival of the fittest is so strong, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Obviously if you have been crashed you didn't like it. And why should you? Imagine that you own a small business, then a big corporation opens up next door. You're not going to be able to compete and you are going to lose your business. That is wrong. There is very little argument there, since the big corporation is threatening your livelihood. But in a game, there is no such thing as a livelihood. If a 138 crashes a level 110 at Bandos, no one is going to lose their house, or their business, or their family, or their own life, or their possessions, no one will lose anything. It's really not a big deal. If you think it is, it's only because you liken it to the example I gave about the big corporation. Runescape is a game and should only be compared to real life in the rarest of situations, this not being one of them.

 

That is my opinion, nothing can change it.

Lrn2Metaphor. I'm not saying being crashed on RS is anywhere close to RL =.=

 

Since when was I talking to you?

[Darkkalphite]

Sure, crashing is wrong in single combat areas where there is little to no competition, but in certain situations, such as boss hunting or during one of those crowded tasks, crashing is acceptable. If you can't find an empty spot, why should you sacrifice your xp when you can sacrifice someone else? It may be selfish, but in a game where he concept of survival of the fittest is so strong, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Obviously if you have been crashed you didn't like it. And why should you? Imagine that you own a small business, then a big corporation opens up next door. You're not going to be able to compete and you are going to lose your business. That is wrong. There is very little argument there, since the big corporation is threatening your livelihood. But in a game, there is no such thing as a livelihood. If a 138 crashes a level 110 at Bandos, no one is going to lose their house, or their business, or their family, or their own life, or their possessions, no one will lose anything. It's really not a big deal. If you think it is, it's only because you liken it to the example I gave about the big corporation. Runescape is a game and should only be compared to real life in the rarest of situations, this not being one of them.

 

That is my opinion, nothing can change it.

Lrn2Metaphor. I'm not saying being crashed on RS is anywhere close to RL =.=

 

Since when was I talking to you?

Since everybody is free to post on forums =]

[Hedgehog]

Sure, crashing is wrong in single combat areas where there is little to no competition, but in certain situations, such as boss hunting or during one of those crowded tasks, crashing is acceptable. If you can't find an empty spot, why should you sacrifice your xp when you can sacrifice someone else? It may be selfish, but in a game where he concept of survival of the fittest is so strong, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Obviously if you have been crashed you didn't like it. And why should you? Imagine that you own a small business, then a big corporation opens up next door. You're not going to be able to compete and you are going to lose your business. That is wrong. There is very little argument there, since the big corporation is threatening your livelihood. But in a game, there is no such thing as a livelihood. If a 138 crashes a level 110 at Bandos, no one is going to lose their house, or their business, or their family, or their own life, or their possessions, no one will lose anything. It's really not a big deal. If you think it is, it's only because you liken it to the example I gave about the big corporation. Runescape is a game and should only be compared to real life in the rarest of situations, this not being one of them.

 

That is my opinion, nothing can change it.

Lrn2Metaphor. I'm not saying being crashed on RS is anywhere close to RL =.=

 

Since when was I talking to you?

Since everybody is free to post on forums =]

 

And that means that my general statement was immediately meant for someone with 50 post count that no one's ever heard of? Nice :thumbup:

 

Anyway, let's get back on topic before it gets locked.

[Darkkalphite]

Yeah, because your postcount gives you all the fame and glamour :rolleyes:

 

I'm just saying, try to be nice irl and in RS =) Be positive

[Hedgehog]

All I was saying was not to assume that I was talking to you.

 

And I am positive, so you don't need to worry your little head about that anymore.

[Darkkalphite]

All I was saying was not to assume that I was talking to you.

 

And I am positive, so you don't need to worry your little head about that anymore.

Being disrespectful is so much fun! Don't you agree?

[Dragonlordjl]

Yeah, because your postcount gives you all the fame and glamour :rolleyes:

 

I'm just saying, try to be nice irl and in RS =) Be positive

Didn't you hear? Post count is directly proportional to e-peen0r size. \:D/

[CallmeNice]

Agreed i got turmoil-ovlds-Cls to be (BETTER) than the competition.. just like the kid who gets bullied i school does a hel of alot of push ups and gets ripped lol..

 

Come [bleep] with me now =D

[Hedgehog]

All I was saying was not to assume that I was talking to you.

 

And I am positive, so you don't need to worry your little head about that anymore.

Being disrespectful is so much fun! Don't you agree?

 

I'm really sorry, but I don't think crashing is disrespectful. All it is is stepping on a bug. Honestly, that's the best way I can describe it.

[Darkkalphite]

All I was saying was not to assume that I was talking to you.

 

And I am positive, so you don't need to worry your little head about that anymore.

Being disrespectful is so much fun! Don't you agree?

 

I'm really sorry, but I don't think crashing is disrespectful. All it is is stepping on a bug. Honestly, that's the best way I can describe it.

I was rather targetting at the way you adress me! For me it's just a principle, be empathic!

[Sly_Wizard]

This thread is proof as to why the Runescape community gets a bad wrap.

[Logdotzip]

I pretty much only do DKS in terms of monsterhunting, and I can't merch for s***, so essentially my income on RuneScape is solely from powerslaying and soloing DKS.

 

I hop two - three times before I consider crashing. Why? Everytime you logout with a familiar summoned, it's timer goes down by a minute. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't mind hopping more. But when my trip overall is cut short or jeopardized because I feel bad for that level 117 in his torag's and dhide, I start to reconsider my sympathy for him.

 

 

After stats and gear, Luck is the most deciding factor of crashing. I have 99 Herblore, the best gear in game (Save for divine and CR/CLS), arcane stream, onyx(i) etc. etc., Max combat stats (except 94 range, but lol, f*** it), and I can still be crashed by a level 130 with less than ideal setup on occasion. That's when it's disheartening.

 

That's why I don't crash players with near levels to me and near setup to me, because at that point, who gets the kill comes down to sheer luck.

[Danqazmlp]

This thread is proof as to why the Runescape community gets a bad wrap.

 

The problem is that those willing to defend their crashing seem to skip most of the posts which give very good criticism to the crashing yet pick up and start arguments on the posts which have more holes in them.

 

Guys, if you are going to discuss this, do it in a sensible and constructive manner. Personal insults and off topic arguments will be removed from here on in.

[Sly_Wizard]

This thread is proof as to why the Runescape community gets a bad wrap.

 

The problem is that those willing to defend their crashing seem to skip most of the posts which give very good criticism to the crashing yet pick up and start arguments on the posts which have more holes in them.

 

I more or less stopped arguing, because it's pointless. The bottom line is that people crash because they think they're more deserving of a spot then someone else is, and that comes down to having an entitlement complex based on stats/equipment. All the rationalizing in the world isn't going to change that fact.

 

Anyway, I honestly wish Jagex would change the way drop mechanics work to something like this.

 

1.) In single-combat, the person to get the last hit should get the drop.

2.) In multi-combat, the person to get the first non-zero hit should get the drop unless they leave the monster's attack range, unless they die, or unless they've gone ten or so seconds without attacking the NPC, in which instances the drop would go to the person who was the second to land a non-zero hit.

3.) In PVP, the person who does the most damage to a player gets the drop.

 

Pretty sure that'd solve most issues regarding crashing, but that'd probably be too hard to work out.

[Logdotzip]

This thread is proof as to why the Runescape community gets a bad wrap.

 

The problem is that those willing to defend their crashing seem to skip most of the posts which give very good criticism to the crashing yet pick up and start arguments on the posts which have more holes in them.

 

I more or less stopped arguing, because it's pointless. The bottom line is that people crash because they think they're more deserving of a spot then someone else is, and that comes down to having an entitlement complex based on stats/equipment. All the rationalizing in the world isn't going to change that fact.

 

Anyway, I honestly wish Jagex would change the way drop mechanics work to something like this.

 

1.) In single-combat, the person to get the last hit should get the drop.

2.) In multi-combat, the person to get the first non-zero hit should get the drop unless they leave the monster's attack range, unless they die, or unless they've gone ten or so seconds without attacking the NPC, in which instances the drop would go to the person who was the second to land a non-zero hit.

3.) In PVP, the person who does the most damage to a player gets the drop.

 

Pretty sure that'd solve most issues regarding crashing, but that'd probably be too hard to work out.

 

 

You make the assumption we all think we deserve the spot we crash. I may not deserve the spot that I crash, but so long as I'm getting the loot, it doesn't matter if I deserve it or not.

 

In response to your three reasonings to make everything more fair

 

1) No real disagreement here, although I imagine if I thought it out, there would be some flaws if drops worked that way

 

2) That will completely turn people off from going anywhere at all, tell me how fair it would be for someone to just walk into a boss area, get a lucky first hit, occasionally thwack an attack on the monster in between hiding in a safespot or some other thing, and recieve the drop? If you're going for consistency, it should be whoever has dealt the most damage, which not only makes the most sense, but is also how it currently works.

 

3) Again, this is already how it currently works, although I think the damage dealt to a player is reset if they logout.

 

 

[TheAncient]

This thread is proof as to why the Runescape community gets a bad wrap.

 

The problem is that those willing to defend their crashing seem to skip most of the posts which give very good criticism to the crashing yet pick up and start arguments on the posts which have more holes in them.

 

Guys, if you are going to discuss this, do it in a sensible and constructive manner. Personal insults and off topic arguments will be removed from here on in.

 

Just saying - maybe the "other criticisms" of crashing are ones that we agree with, and thus don't feel a need to comment on them.

 

Part of the reason I wanted to have such an extreme original post was to point out that you shouldn't get angry over these things. Just suck it up and move on.

[Obtaurian]

The bottom line is that people crash because they think they're more deserving of a spot then someone else is, and that comes down to having an entitlement complex based on stats/equipment. All the rationalizing in the world isn't going to change that fact.

 

You're completely missing the point. It has very little to do with an "entitlement complex."

 

- There are a limited number of non-LS worlds.

- There are thousands of players who want to use these worlds.

 

You see the problem we have? We are FORCED to compete with each other. Like Bladewing said, if you're going to be mad at someone, be mad at Jagex for forcing us into these situations. No one who solo boss hunts regularly will tell you that everything is all fine and dandy and hopping for a half an hour is an acceptable course of action.

 

Like I've said before, crashing is not personal. Crashers are not sociopaths, bullies, or whatever other demeaning title you want to assign to them. They're just playing Runescape the way it was made.

[Danqazmlp]

The bottom line is that people crash because they think they're more deserving of a spot then someone else is, and that comes down to having an entitlement complex based on stats/equipment. All the rationalizing in the world isn't going to change that fact.

 

You're completely missing the point. It has very little to do with an "entitlement complex."

 

- There are a limited number of non-LS worlds.

- There are thousands of players who want to use these worlds.

 

You see the problem we have? We are FORCED to compete with each other. Like Bladewing said, if you're going to be mad at someone, be mad at Jagex for forcing us into these situations. No one who solo boss hunts regularly will tell you that everything is all fine and dandy and hopping for a half an hour is an acceptable course of action.

 

Like I've said before, crashing is not personal. Crashers are not sociopaths, bullies, or whatever other demeaning title you want to assign to them. They're just playing Runescape the way it was made.

 

 

The problem is that many people don't even try to find an empty world. Many people will just crash without trying to find somewhere that will inconvenience nobody. I would be fine with somebody who has hopped 3 -5 times crashing because they have put the effort in NOT to crash. But immediately crashing whoever is there is just doing it is almost lazy.

[crashNburn]

I'd love to see some true instanced boss content, outside of dungeoneering.

 

Barrows is sort of like that, and it's shame jagex hasn't introduced more.

[Obtaurian]

The bottom line is that people crash because they think they're more deserving of a spot then someone else is, and that comes down to having an entitlement complex based on stats/equipment. All the rationalizing in the world isn't going to change that fact.

 

You're completely missing the point. It has very little to do with an "entitlement complex."

 

- There are a limited number of non-LS worlds.

- There are thousands of players who want to use these worlds.

 

You see the problem we have? We are FORCED to compete with each other. Like Bladewing said, if you're going to be mad at someone, be mad at Jagex for forcing us into these situations. No one who solo boss hunts regularly will tell you that everything is all fine and dandy and hopping for a half an hour is an acceptable course of action.

 

Like I've said before, crashing is not personal. Crashers are not sociopaths, bullies, or whatever other demeaning title you want to assign to them. They're just playing Runescape the way it was made.

 

 

The problem is that many people don't even try to find an empty world. Many people will just crash without trying to find somewhere that will inconvenience nobody. I would be fine with somebody who has hopped 3 -5 times crashing because they have put the effort in NOT to crash. But immediately crashing whoever is there is just doing it is almost lazy.

 

You're absolutely right that there are people who do that, but you can never tell. I think people just get angry when they're crashed so they take it as a personal affront.

 

I think crashing without hopping at least a couple times is rude. The only place I think it'd be acceptable is solo Graardor, but even then it's worth hopping just so you can find the easiest person to crash.

[Sly_Wizard]

You make the assumption we all think we deserve the spot we crash. I may not deserve the spot that I crash, but so long as I'm getting the loot, it doesn't matter if I deserve it or not.

 

If you didn't think you deserved the spot, you wouldn't crash it as, by your own logic, you'd have no real claim to it (seeing as how someone else is there).

 

In response to your three reasonings to make everything more fair

 

1) No real disagreement here, although I imagine if I thought it out, there would be some flaws if drops worked that way

 

All righty then.

 

2) That will completely turn people off from going anywhere at all, tell me how fair it would be for someone to just walk into a boss area, get a lucky first hit, occasionally thwack an attack on the monster in between hiding in a safespot or some other thing, and recieve the drop? If you're going for consistency, it should be whoever has dealt the most damage, which not only makes the most sense, but is also how it currently works.

 

Well, I'm not going for consistency, and neither are you if you agree that in single-combat the person who gets the last hit should get the drop while stating that it should be different elsewhere ;)

 

Anyway, the above quoted is easily rectified by getting rid of all safe spots at "boss" monsters or shortening the time amount of time someone can not be engaged in combat with the NPC in question. When you consider the fact that, last I checked, most areas with "boss" monsters don't have a safe spot (the only two that come to mind are the KQ and TD's), there's no reason not to do this.

 

3) Again, this is already how it currently works, although I think the damage dealt to a player is reset if they logout.

 

Yes, I know that's how it currently works.

 

The bottom line is that people crash because they think they're more deserving of a spot then someone else is, and that comes down to having an entitlement complex based on stats/equipment. All the rationalizing in the world isn't going to change that fact.

 

You're completely missing the point. It has very little to do with an "entitlement complex."

 

- There are a limited number of non-LS worlds.

- There are thousands of players who want to use these worlds.

 

You see the problem we have? We are FORCED to compete with each other. Like Bladewing said, if you're going to be mad at someone, be mad at Jagex for forcing us into these situations. No one who solo boss hunts regularly will tell you that everything is all fine and dandy and hopping for a half an hour is an acceptable course of action.

 

Like I've said before, crashing is not personal. Crashers are not sociopaths, bullies, or whatever other demeaning title you want to assign to them. They're just playing Runescape the way it was made.

 

Jagex doesn't make you kill any NPC. They don't make you crash. They don't hold a gun to your head and make you do anything. The fact of the matter is that you crash because you want to, more specifically because you can. If you couldn't, you wouldn't try. You would go do something else. That's the point.