Dungeoneering Suggestions

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Table of Contents:

A) The Bind Bank

B) Shadow Silk

C) Challenge Room Rewards (Suggested by A Final Name)

D) PVP Dungeoneering (Suggested by Lalala)

E) Race Dungeoneering

F) Pickpocketing

G) Rebalancing Weapon Addons

H) No More Randoms

I) Gauntlet Mode

J) View Floors

K) Holiday Items

 

[spoiler=A) The Bind Bank]So, I'm sure everybody is tired of being restricted to only 1-4 item binds and 1 ammo bind.

And, Jagex does this for good reason. Having too much armor, weapons, and ammo at the start of a floor would be rather game breaking.

Jagex want's to give players a reason to collect resources during a floor, and there's nothing wrong with them wanting that.

 

However, many many rare drops simply go to waste.

Having to throw away a blood necklace at the end of a floor, just seems like a total total shame.

 

You don't need armor in C1's so why not grab a blood necklace?

Maybe you have a reliable perm team, and you feel like rolling with a surgebox and celestial catalytic because you can count on your allies to deal with mage resistant enemies.

 

I personally have a hexhunter, which I don't feel like breaking for a platebody.

But then again I key a lot, in which case a body armor is sooo much more useful than a hexhunter.

 

So, how do we solve this without making the game too easy?

 

How about a bind bank.

Every time you bind an item, it goes into a bank of yours.

And you can bind as many items as the bank can hold (say the bank can hold some arbitrary number of items items)

(people are suggesting 7-10 item slots and 3 ammo slots for the bind bank)

 

The catch is, at the start of the floor, you can only withdraw 1-4 items and 1 ammo from your bind bank (depending on your DG level)

and you cannot withdraw anymore items from your bind bank for the rest of the floor.

 

So, I could go do floor 45, Go with a platebody since I feel like keying.

Then when we finish the floor, my friend tells me he wants to key.

next floor I swap out my platebody for a hexhunter, and he swaps out to his platebody, and we roll out.

 

That way I would never have to feel bad throwing away rare drops (as I wouldn't need to)

And I would still be restricted to 1-4 items + 1 ammo binds each floor.

 

 

[spoiler=B) Shadow Silk]

I know a lot of dungeoneers who are tired of getting the shadow silk hood drop.

And frankly, it's creating a caste divide between the dungeoneers

 

I think Jagex wanted to bring the community together with dungeoneering, by forcing players to work with each other.

But the shadow silk hood (and the tiered bind system to a lesser extent) is really segregating the community.

 

How many dungeoneering raids could you really get into without a shadow silk hood?

 

The suggestion is simple. Release a quest, or mini quest, or achievement diary, or minigame, or ANYTHING of this nature.

Where upon accomplishing the task required, you are guaranteed an inferior version of the shadow silk hood.

It doesn't need to be a hood even, it could be a body piece, a leg piece, a glove piece, whatever.

 

It stat wise, should be as good as the hood, or worse (so as to not to diminish the value of the normal hood)

it must NOT reduce your combat abilities more than the -2 melee atk that the shadow hood already does. (Or people will not like you for slowing GDs down)

 

so I'd say it should be like a shadow silk hood, but gives you less defense, or negative defense or something of this nature.

The point of this would be to remove the rift between hooded players and non-hooded players.

 

 

 

[spoiler=C) Challenge Room Rewards]

Suggested by A Final Name

 

Do you hate Monoliths?

Do you hate Obelisks?

Do you hate Mercenary rooms?

 

You're probably not alone.

However, I am against making these rooms easier.

They were clearly meant to be tougher than your average room.

 

But this is the way I see it.

What would a soulgazer be without a hexhunter drop chance?

An Edimmu without blood necklace drop chance?

They'd just be extra beefy, powerful monsters, that took more food, required slayer levels, and MIGHT drop a fair amount of food for you.

They would definitely not be fun.

But since they have a rare drop, people find them fun and exhilarating.

The same logic could be applied towards Monoliths, Obelisks, and Mercenary rooms in my opinion

 

A final name suggested a 1/400 drop rate from these rooms.

A final name also suggested a reward from obelisks where you could bind a special familiar pouch + 125 scrolls for the familiar into your ammo slot.

I will not specify a drop rate. That is not the purpose of the suggestion :P

Nor will I suggest specific rewards for these challenge rooms. As that is not the purpose of this suggestion either.

If I have new item suggestions, I will mention them in a separate suggestion bubble.

 

 

 

[spoiler=D) PVP Dungeoneering]

Suggested by Lalala

2-4 teams start at opposite corners of a dungeon.

They may or may not be allowed to have their dungeoneering binds (optional setting)

Map may or may not be symmetric (optional setting)

 

First team to slay the other team wins.

 

Incentive to kill monsters is and clear rooms is to get to the opposing team ASAP and catch them with their pants down.

Incentive to skill is to get food and equipment necessary to pwn the other team.

 

Should this be part of the dungeoneering skill?

Should it gain xp? tokens? just tokens? just xp?

Should it just be a minigame?

Should the team split up to get resources faster?

Should the team stick together so individuals don't get piled?

Who knows, I'm not going into that, as that is a separate suggestion in itself.

 

 

[spoiler=E) Race Dungeoneering]

Inspired by Lalala's previous suggestion

2 teams start in the same dungeon.

The two teams cannot interact with each other, but can see "shadows" of the players on the opposing team.

 

First team to finish the dungeon wins.

finishing the dungeon could be openning all the doors then slaying the boss, or it could be just killing the boss.

(make it an optional setting or whatever)

 

The point of this is to have teams learn from other players.

There's too much strategy bickering in dungeoneering, especially with random teams.

And this bickering is ultimately pointless because floors are different from each other.

It is time to put the mettle of dungeoneering strategies and teamwork to the ultimate test, against another team.

You're both doing the same floor, so you can't say that one of you just happened to get a better floor.

 

It takes extra time to find 10 people to do the same floor, instead of 5.

So the losing team should NOT earn less xp for the floor if they lose.

But the winning team should definitely earn an XP bonus.

Perhaps even the losing team should get a bonus.

 

I will not specify how much more or how much less, as this is not relevant.

 

 

[spoiler=F) Pickpocketing]

Ever pickpocket in stealing creation?

Do you know the THRILL of stealing a mage's runes?

 

Why not implement this in dungeoneering.

Obviously you would need a shadow silk hood (or just very good safe spotting skills) as you cannot pickpocket while under attack.

But that's irrelevant.

 

Make it so you can pickpocket forgotten warriors/rangers/mages and brutes.

For warriors and rangers, you could make the lootpile consists of GPs, food, charms.

For mages, it could be that, but the additional chance of stealing the mage's only runes!.

After all, mages can spy you through your hood, so there should be and extra benefit for stealing from them before you are inevitably spotted.

Make it such that actually stealing the runes would debuff the mage. A mage without blood runes would not be able to cast wave/surge spells.

A mage without mind runes would not be able to cast monster examine to dehood you.

 

And of course, there is a chance of failure based on your thieving level.

And if you fail, you take damage, lose your hoodedness, and are stunned.

The forgotten warriors you could thieve from would scale with their levels (99 thieving for tier 11 forgottens, 90 for tier 10, etc)

 

IMO, it would not change dungeoneering that much.

But it would most definitely be fun to do.

 

 

[spoiler=G) Rebalancing Weapon Addons]

I think I recall Jagex stating that they don't want to rebalance weapons outside of dungeoneering because it may affect the economy too much.

(Personally I think it would affect the economy in a good and acceptable way, but if Jagex thinks otherwise I need to accept that)

 

Anywhoo, regardless Jagex did make their first attempt at rebalancing weapons indirectly with the Longbow sights.

This item was an addon so it did not really affect the price of longbows.

 

At the same time, the longbow(s) rebalanced longbows in the weapon set (althought crossbows are still too dominant in my opinion)

But that's not the point.

 

Jagex can rebalance the weapons through weapon addons. Hilt Extension + 2 Handers for example.

 

 

 

[spoiler=H) No More Randoms]

It'd be easier to write a botting script for a random event than for dungeoneering.

The problem with random events, is that if say a player needs to cash in their reward tokens real quick, and they inevitably get random evented, the random event consumes the time of not only the player in the random event, but all 4 other players in the team.

It's simply an unnecessary strain on teams.

Many dungeoneers can be drama queens. It's important to not strain them too much if you want to promote a sense of community.

 

 

 

[spoiler=I) Gauntlet Mode]

I present this mode for three purposes:

 

-As a funner alternative to C1's

-To help players who have a small number of floors before reset, and can't find teams for them.

-Provide a challenge for more competent boss fighters.

 

You start off, provided with a set amount of resources.

After you and your team prepare, you enter the gauntlet.

After you enter, you cannot exit to restock on materials.

 

You fight the 6 bosses for a floor type (frozen, furnished, abandoned, occult, warped) in a row.

Death may or may not be permanent (I don't want to consider balancing details in this thread)

Upon completion, all floors of the type are cleared off.

You can do a gauntlet without XP loss so long as you have a single floor from the floor type incomplete.

 

That way say, if you have only floor 43 left

and another player has only floor 47 left

You can do a gauntlet mode together in spite of the lack of common floors.

 

And of course you can do a single frozen gauntlet to clear 1-11 in a single go.

 

I also won't comment on how much xp/tokens this mode will give since I don't want to consider balancing details in this thread.

 

 

 

[spoiler=J) View Floors]

I'm really wondering why such a small, yet huge improvement isn't suggested:

 

being able to see your own floors (which you have open or finished) without going into a team!

 

 

 

[spoiler=K) Holiday Items]

Let us bring untradeable holiday items such as christmas hats and scarves into daemonheim.

 

 

[Sir_Squab]

Would be nice. And your not the first person to suggest this.

[Dax]

Yes please. :thumbup:

[Obtaurian]

I love it. A far more elegant solution than the crazy stuff I've posted on the RSOF. :P

[Youmu]

Definitely makes less of a hassle for range/mage in f2p.

 

However, can you switch between the binds during the dungeon? It seems like you're saying you cannot, and I can understand why.

[Obtaurian]

Definitely makes less of a hassle for range/mage in f2p.

 

However, can you switch between the binds during the dungeon? It seems like you're saying you cannot, and I can understand why.

 

and you cannot withdraw anymore items from your bind bank for the rest of the floor.

[Youmu]

Ahh, I see. Kinda confused at the wording, lol.

 

Then I do support this. :thumbup:

[jsboutin2]

Full support

[Hegelstad]

Full support x2

[Dire_Wolf]

Good idea.

[Myweponsg00d]

I agree wholeheartedly. It seems to be the same problem that used to plague WoW with the talent specialization system.

 

Both WoW's talens specialization system and RS's bind system exist for a reason. It adds depth to the game. It makes you think more about the choices you are making...

 

However, if this type of a system is too restrictive, the opposite can occur. If the talent choices (or in our case, equipment choices) are too narrow-ended...people will only invest their options into the "correct" choices. Obviously, unless you key all of the time, or are uninterested in having the fastest/easiest exp rate possible, you would bind the same few items. (hood, top quality plate, top quality spear/2h)

 

But...is this setup ALWAYS the best? No, not REALLY. I mean, if you could set up your team however you wanted to for each dungeon, it might be beneficial to have other people with different weapon specializations. There are certainly other viable strategies that could be considered for bind setups, but only in certain situations. These situations occur too infrequently to commit your ONLY set of binds to a "rarely useful" setup...therefore everyone ends up with the same setup.

 

Now, look at WoW. After years of having the same mechanism for talent trees, they decided to let players have two talent specializations, and allow them to switch specs any time that they are not in combat. What happened next? Did the game suddenly become boring, over simplified, etc? No. In fact, it became much more interesting. New, more player-friendly strategies emerged. People who really liked to tank created two tanking trees: one tree with the "most common" setup, and the other tree with a more specialized setup that may be good for certain bosses. Raids/guilds were now able to vary the ammount of healers they have in a raid without having people stand on the sidelines waiting, or waiting around for their one member to go to town, unspec, respec, come back, etc...

 

Now of course the line must be drawn somewhere. Do I think that the "bind bank" should have 20 slots?...No. I think that might be a little silly, and leave the door too far open. I think that the bind bank should have somewhere around 8 slots...especially for the lower DG levels. A 20 slot bank might be appropriate for level 120 DGing though...I dont know. I can't comment on that because I don't have personal experience with the meta game at that level.

[SoulWars]

In my opinion, that'd still make things easier, and as Myweponsg00d said, Jagex wants us to make choices. It would, however, be nice. But 20 items? Seems a bit too much to me. I'd say 4 so you can 'save' up for when/if you get 120 dungeoneering.

[Shangdi]

I think that DG lvl*0.1-1 (w/ a minimum of 1) is good.

 

Ex

@1 dg you have 1 bind bank slot

@10 you have 1 still

@29 it's still 1

@30 you get your 2nd one

@58 (my current level as of posting :P) I'd have 4

@99 you'd have 8

@120 you have 11

^{Turning it up to 11.}

 

Not terribly overpowered, but not stifling either.

[civie]

Support.

 

Shangdi's idea of how many is a good addition.

Have it rise with the dungeoneering level, not 20 immediatly.

You don't need 20 binds from level 1 through about 20-30.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

as others have said, 20 is a bit too much. maybe it should be something like you bind bank = the amount uyou can bind x2 (max 8 and 2 ammo binds banked) that looks fair to me.

 

anyway this is a really good idea, i would love to bind a surge box + staff for when i feal like mageing and a high end 2h spear for other times.

one nice side efect of this is that it would alow me to go dunge in f2p without stuffing up my binds (i dunge with f2p friends for fun), its anoying comeing in to a dungeion with nuthing but you feet and hands to kill things with.

[AnneFrank]

Every 5mil exp you get another bank bind

5m-1 item

10m-2 items

15m-3 items

and so on

[Shangdi]

Every 5mil exp you get another bank bind

5m-1 item

10m-2 items

15m-3 items

and so on

Too elitest, and it will never happen--Jagex always bases things on levels.

 

And do you really need 40 bank binds?

[AnneFrank]

Every 5mil exp you get another bank bind

5m-1 item

10m-2 items

15m-3 items

and so on

Too elitest, and it will never happen--Jagex always bases things on levels.

 

And do you really need 40 bank binds?

A bind bank makes dg easier

 

 

3 items is more then enough.

 

 

so how about

 

level 90 DG 1 item

Level 100 DG 2 item

Level 110 DG 3 items

Level 120 DG 4 items

[Quyneax]

Support, but 20 slots is kind of a lot. How about 4 + 1 per 20 dg levels?

 

Blood necklace

Hexhunter

Saggitarian arrows

Surgebox w/ runes

Shadow silk hood

Primal platebody

Primal platelegs

Primal 2h

Primal rapier (for c1s)

Celestial catalytic staff

 

Pretty much what you can do with 10 binds slots. Quite a lot, it seems.

[Youmu]

Yeah now that I think of it, 20 items is indeed a lot.

 

I think 10 is a pretty good number, along with 3 ammo binds.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Yeah now that I think of it, 20 items is indeed a lot.

 

I think 10 is a pretty good number, along with 3 ammo binds.

5 i'd say is the minimum number.

because it'd be pointless if the bind bank were 4 and you could bind 4 items.

That doesn't really add the variety to your game play that I would like to see.

 

7-8 non ammo bank slots would be the number where you could have two very different bind set ups even at lvl 120.

or 3 pretty similar ones at 120.

And of course at lower DG levels, that would be even more variety (perhaps too much)

Most people keep hoods for all their binds anyways, so the 8th bind really isn't necessary.

 

As for ammo slots, i think 3 is the ideal number.

Laws, Arrows, and Combat runes.

 

7 items + 3 ammo binds I would personally suggest :P

 

PS: Tons of new suggestions up, from myself and others :)

feel free to contribute.

[Obtaurian]

Loving all of the new suggestions. :thumbup:

[Youmu]

Definitely agree with shadow silk, rewards for challenge rooms, race dungeoneering and pickpocketing! About the challenge room reward, I think maybe a mercenary's staff? It gives the same stats as celestial catalytic (as well as the same requirements), however, every 5th hit there will be an extra damage splat that is 25% of your original damage. Monolith, maybe a ghostly amulet, which when worn, shades cannot spot you. Just like the hood however, it can be deactivated by mages/necromancers for a short while, same time as the shadow silk hood. Obelisk, maybe a spirit cape that makes scrolls use less spec bar, less summoning points are drained, AND familiars last longer.

 

I'm not sure how PvP dungeoneering will work though. I'm not even sure if the idea will even work. Dungeoneering and PvP don't really mix imo.

[Mazhar]

omg I do want that pvp idea so bad

[Articultural]

A lot of good suggestions, but many of them are overpowered or not needed. The bind bank kind of defeats the point of specialisation, if you could lots of items and swap between floors, you wouldn't have to choose between, say, binding laws instead of a surgebox for c1s. The whole point of binds is that you can't have the best of everything and just swap around whenever you feel like it, if you want to swap to an entirely different style of playing, you have to sacrifice your bound items. Maybe just increasing the max amount of binds by 1 or 2 (by means a quest or reward bought by tokens/etc) would work better.

 

The hood suggestion seems a bit ridiculous, hoods aren't *that* rare (I've personally had 3 hood drops since Warped came out) and you can easily do a dungeon without a hood. They are supposed to be for players who take the time to get them, I could use the same argument for a hexhunter bow, should I be guarenteed a bow with slightly worse stats that has the same special effect just because I don't have one?

 

Challlenge room rewards don't really seem neccessary, but would be nice extras. Provided they aren't overpowered (considering their rarity) or not good enough for people to want to bind them, they would be a nice idea. Kind of like an addition to slayer monster drops, for people without high Slayer levels.

 

PvP Dungeoneering sounds like lots of fun, it would probably work best as a minigame, obviously giving less XP than normal dungeons (so people don't just grind it). A good idea would be to implement PvP Dungeoneering-only rewards (akin to the Void deflector from Conquest or PvP armour drops (tradeable or untradeable)), that are similar to Dungeoneering rewards, but still worth getting. It would be a nice addition to Dungeoneering, while not being as efficient (XP-wise) as actually training so that people just do it for fun. :)

 

Race Dungeoneering sounds like it could have lots of problems, it would work if it was another style of PvP Dungeoneering (a minigame) for skillers, perhaps. :P It defnitely shouldn't give faster XP than the current methods (especially not a boost in XP over the current rate for the winner), as then clans would be created and a problem would arise similar to the 50-50 GOP issue.

 

Pickpocketing sounds more annoying than helpful, maybe it could work in PvP dungeons though, rebalancing weapons with addons is a great idea, and I'm sure Jagex will add more in future (considering the success of the longbow sight). I actually quite like the randoms (other than mazes), they only take a few minutes at the most and give free XP. :)

 

Overall, a great list of ideas, just some needs tweaks, but I'd be more than happy for Jagex to implement most of them. :D