Chaotic Kiteshield Vs Divine Spirit Shield

[SirIzenhime]

Ok, so I've been bored lately, and I've been looking at stats of high leveled equipment, mainly the dungeoneering shields, and the spirit shields.

 

I got to the chaotic kiteshield, and decided to stat for stat, compare it to the Divine Spirit shield, and it has me thinking. How do they really compare?

 

I'll be using Bandos GWD for my comparison here

Now, just reading through the effects of the shields, the divine seems obviously better in that regard. But what about when you take stats into consideration?

 

The chaotic Kiteshield has a ranged defense bonus of +89, while the divine has a ranged defense bonus of +57.

 

The bulk of damage that you are taking when at Bandos GWD is from ranged attacks. By logic, with the chaotic kiteshield, Graardor's range attack should become less accurate. It also makes the ranged minion hit you less, every little bit counts. The main thing I wonder about here though, is how much less will his range attack actually hit you when you use the chaotic? You can also take the Damage soak of the Chaotic into consideration here as well. While the Divine obviously negates more damage when you're hit than the chaotic does, how would having BOTH and +32 range defence AND possible 1-20% ranged damage negation compare to the Divines constant 30%, but less range defense?

 

Prayer can also be taken into consideration I feel.

 

With the divine, you'll be getting hit by the range attacks more often, this means you shields effect activates more often, and you use up prayer potions more often. With the chaotic shield, the shields effect does not use up prayer potions, thus possibly allowing you to use less prayer potions, and take more food during a trip. The spirit shield DOES have a +3 prayer bonus, while the chaotic shield has none. How much prayer would you save using the Chaotic Kiteshield over the Divine? Would it be enough to save inventory space for more food, allowing you to stay longer?

 

The divine spirit shield has a +2 magic defense, while the chaotic has a -5. The divine offers you 7 more magic defense against the maging minion, while also negating 30% of damage caused by it. The chaotic kiteshield offers no magic damage negation as well as lower magic defense. How much would this affect damage taken in a trip overall?

 

The last point to take into consideration is which weapon you will be using. If you're using a chaotic rapier, the chaotic shield offers a +2 stab attack bonus. While it's not a lot, every little bit counts, and in the long run leads to faster kills, thus less attack turns bandos will use on you. This of course can be completely ignored if you're using a CLS or Whip.

 

Keep in mind this is all mainly speculation. I have neither shield, so I cannot test it personally, or say from experience in support of either shield.

I'm more interested if any testing actually has been done with the two shields at Bandos Solo trips.

[Quyneax]

I think the cost of using a chaotic kite has been ignored in your argument. Being quadruply under attack while soaking probably degrades that kite pretty fast.

[totalpwnage]

Chaotic Kiteshield doesn't protect over a whip.

Main reason I didn't get it atm. But I will eventually. But thats a real setback for anyone that wants to use it there - they prob have to risk it.

 

I think performance wise Chaotic Kiteshield is going to be about equal to the Divine Spirit Shield.

 

@Quyneax The Kite degrades no faster than a rapier/maul/long there.

[My_Eggs]

Chaotic Kiteshield doesn't protect over a whip.

Main reason I didn't get it atm. But I will eventually. But thats a real setback for anyone that wants to use it there - they prob have to risk it.

 

I think performance wise Chaotic Kiteshield is going to be about equal to the Divine Spirit Shield.

 

@Quyneax The Kite degrades no faster than a rapier/maul/long there.

 

 

Are you sure it doesn't degrade faster? From what I understood, each time it absorbs damage, it degrades some.

 

Edit:

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?rs2item_id=9916

 

'Soaking' damage lessens the charge on the shield more quickly than usual.

 

Taken from the tip.it item database.

[Quyneax]

We have had a topic on this before and the conculsion there was that divine will prevent far more damage than ckite. Also, degrading no faster than a chaotic weapon means that the soak is apparently unnoticable? It still adds to the costs, too.

[SirIzenhime]

The main idea here though, is the massive increase in ranged defense you get IN ADDITION to the possible damage soak. Yes, the divine prevents more damage when actually being hit, but with the chaotic, you should be getting hit less, should you not?

[PereGrin]

at around page 170 of the Partyhat/3rd Age thread, someone did compare the C kite to the ely I think.

 

A guy called Warlock posted an in depth shield comparison on the RSOF right when dungeoneering came out. He came to the conclusion that while Divine absolutely crushed C Kite, the Ely was roughly equal to it.

 

I think he said something like, because you are blocking so much damage with the Divine, not using it means you would take much more damage, and you cannot carry enough extra food to compensate. You can carry far more prayer then you can carry food.

 

Even with the added defense of the chaotic kiteshield. The damage blocking far far outweighs the extra defense.

[SirIzenhime]

so the additional 32 range defense makes no difference, whatsoever?

[PereGrin]

so the additional 32 range defense makes no difference, whatsoever?

It makes a difference, but the 30% damage block by the divine prevents more damage then the "maybe 20%" damage soak and +32 defense of the Kiteshield

[xSxqPowerx]

Been done before, it's not even close to as good as divine.

 

You have to realize that +32 range defence is nothing, when looking at the whole picture. It's not a difference between +57 and +89, it's a difference between ~300 and ~332. That's pretty much nothing, and has been shown to reduce the frequency that attacks hit by so little that it's almost negligible.

 

Magic defence and reduction: Is nearly as significant as range - the mage minion tears you apart. Divine has better mage defence, and reduces damage.

 

Prayer: Divine has small pray bonus.

 

Overall reduction: CKS reduces like 5% on average apparently, and only on 200+ hits.

 

Frequency of eating: With 30% damage reduction you eat less, and the less you eat, the more time you spend attacking (and less brews you need to drink to kill your stats). More time attacking at higher stats = faster kills.

[mister_moocky]

As I recall from previous topics it's been tested to the point of confirmation that graador's range attack is magic based. So divine provides higher defence bonuses and damage reduction from graardor.

[PereGrin]

Been done before, it's not even close to as good as divine.

 

You have to realize that +32 range defence is nothing, when looking at the whole picture. It's not a difference between +57 and +89, it's a difference between ~300 and ~332. That's pretty much nothing, and has been shown to reduce the frequency that attacks hit by so little that it's almost negligible.

 

Magic defence and reduction: Is nearly as significant as range - the mage minion tears you apart. Divine has better mage defence, and reduces damage.

 

Prayer: Divine has small pray bonus.

 

Overall reduction: CKS reduces like 5% on average apparently, and only on 200+ hits.

 

Frequency of eating: With 30% damage reduction you eat less, and the less you eat, the more time you spend attacking (and less brews you need to drink to kill your stats). More time attacking at higher stats = faster kills.

Because Divine drains prayer, you actually need fewer inventory spots to heal/restore prayer then you do with the kiteshield. I think you save like 2 inventory spots healing 10k lp with divine, compared to either ely or chaotic kite.

 

Chaotic kite seems to be a decent replacement for Ely though, here is what the guy in Phats/3rd age/spirit shields said. Yuriqiu is the name. He posts a few times in the next page or so afterwards. about half way down the page.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/259136-3rd-agespirit-shieldsphats-discussion/page__st__2740

[SirIzenhime]

As I recall from previous topics it's been tested to the point of confirmation that graador's range attack is magic based. So divine provides higher defence bonuses and damage reduction from graardor.

 

They why do Bandos tanks wear full bandos....for range defense?

[Bladewing]

the problem with dungeoneering shields is that they only soak damage that hits over 200. bandos' max with ranged is low 300s, so it's only going to activate like 40% of the time, and only going to activate about 5% of the time for the range minions. also you get no reduction against the mage, who actually does like 25-30% of the damage you receive.

 

40% activation x 20% reduction = 8% reduction of graardor's damage

5% activation x 20% reduction = 1% reduction of ranger's damage

 

vs:

 

100% activation x 30% reduction = 30% reduction of graardor's, ranger's, and mage's damage

 

the +32 ranged defence helps, yes, and the +2 stab helps, yes; however, the benefits of those small bonuses (yes 30 ranged is small - your ranged defence is 303 with divine) pale in comparison to being able to absorb about 4x more damage.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

chaotic kite has:

+20 stab

+25 slash

+11 crush

-7 mage

+32 range

defence when compaired with divine.

 

chaotic kite soaks damage probably from 1 to 20% for range and 1 to 10% for melee.

avrige of 10% range damage soaked.

5% melee damage soaked.

(rounded to be simple)

 

the probably is becouse we dont really know how it works, but we know its up to 20% for range.

 

the range defence is 64% bigger stat wise.

 

so, asumeing you have 0 defence levels (lol) and you have no other armour equiped (lololol)

the chaotic kite will block 64% more hits, but soak 1 third of the damage.

 

 

things worth noteing:

is defence is parabolic or the like the amount of blocked hits would be grater.

it is unknown how often the range soak activates (allways? 1 in 10?)

i will not count cost becouse if you can aford to chouse between a chaotic kite or a divine, you got money to burn. however risk of loseing each shield is still a factor worth noteing.

max hits are lower with divine so even if you take more damage, you still might die less often. with chaotic kite its posible that it might not soak any damage at all when Graardor would hit a max.

with divine Graardor max hit is roughly 420

with kite his max is roughly 600 or 480 is the full 20% kicks in.

 

becouse Graardor has a max of about 600 (i dont clame to be an exspert, but that is corecct is it not?) that menas 2 thirds of hits will be 200+ efectively removeing a third from the avrige soak.

so thats 30% for divine

and 7% for chaotic

 

 

if anything on this post menas something

with 0 defence and no other armour

chaotic kite has a 64% higher chance if blicking a hit, and lowers all range damage by an avrige of 7%

 

divine lowers all range (and other 2 classes) damage by an avrige of 30%

 

i shal let you all talk about what this means.

[TheAncient]

I think CKS > Ely for range vs range pvp, not sure though. 30 extra defense ~ 10-15% hit less (30/250 ~ 12%); + 2-7% damage reduction

[green9090]

If we're talking about solo Bandos, this isn't even a vaguely interesting discussion. Divine lowers Graardor's max hit, allowing you to let your hp drop a little lower before you ruin your stats by brewing and having to wait for the boost back to 125. This means the difference between having the extra time to get the KO, or having to wait 5 or 6 more 0s after brewing before finally killing the boss when he has 100lp left.

 

Divine IS better for soloing, for that reason alone. It also prevents much more damage and doesn't waste much prayer because brew/restore on overloads makes you drink restore when you don't need it for prayer fairly often anyway.

 

As others have said and provided backup for, Ely is also far superior. Another reason not many people have brought up is the fact that its special activates against magic attacks too, which is helpful.

 

The interesting question is DFS vs. CKS. CKS has 17 more ranged defense, but 15 less magic defense. Compared to a full set of gear, 17 ranged defense is a relatively small boost compared to the huge difference losing 15 magic defense makes when most of it is just from Karil's top and fury. Assuming that the CKS's soak effect is useless (which it really, really is according to every person who owns the shield I've ever asked and every video I've watched of the shield), it all comes down to stats, and in my opinion that magic defense is a lot more important than the ranged defense. DFS is also free to use and provides a helpful strength bonus; CKS has neither of these advantages.

[TheAncient]

If we're talking about solo Bandos, this isn't even a vaguely interesting discussion. Divine lowers Graardor's max hit, allowing you to let your hp drop a little lower before you ruin your stats by brewing and having to wait for the boost back to 125. This means the difference between having the extra time to get the KO, or having to wait 5 or 6 more 0s after brewing before finally killing the boss when he has 100lp left.

 

Divine IS better for soloing, for that reason alone. It also prevents much more damage and doesn't waste much prayer because brew/restore on overloads makes you drink restore when you don't need it for prayer fairly often anyway.

 

As others have said and provided backup for, Ely is also far superior. Another reason not many people have brought up is the fact that its special activates against magic attacks too, which is helpful.

 

The interesting question is DFS vs. CKS. CKS has 17 more ranged defense, but 15 less magic defense. Compared to a full set of gear, 17 ranged defense is a relatively small boost compared to the huge difference losing 15 magic defense makes when most of it is just from Karil's top and fury. Assuming that the CKS's soak effect is useless (which it really, really is according to every person who owns the shield I've ever asked and every video I've watched of the shield), it all comes down to stats, and in my opinion that magic defense is a lot more important than the ranged defense. DFS is also free to use and provides a helpful strength bonus; CKS has neither of these advantages.

 

I agree with pretty much everything green pointed out. I would say DFS > CKS in general.

 

HOWEVER, the one exception I did bring up is raging for pvp. CKS provides 17 more ranged defense AND has 5 more ranged attack than DFS.

[green9090]

^Wait, you can do safe ranged vs. ranged pvp WHILE you solo Bandos?

[TheAncient]

^Wait, you can do safe ranged vs. ranged pvp WHILE you solo Bandos?

 

Obviously. Teleother graardor into clan wars DURRR

[Zaaps1]

Divine may be overwealmingly better, but it DOES cost 1b+ street price, or ~500m if you snipe in GE (which you won't, but for argument's sake, let's use this as the price).

 

At Frost Dragons, that's over 145 hours of work required.

 

CKS is 200k tokens, which will take about 25 hours if you go from ~level 80 (eg. after buying a rapier).

 

I can think of a lot of things I can do with 120 hours.

[green9090]

^...Which is why I compared it (unfavorably) to a more reasonably affordable DFS just now.

 

It's just a bad shield for Bandos solo. I can see it being a good tank shield in a team though.

[SirIzenhime]

people seem to be taking this thread as me saying.. CKS > Divine.

As I said, it's just random speculation, and I was only wondering how they compared.

[Zaaps1]

^...Which is why I compared it (unfavorably) to a more reasonably affordable DFS just now.

 

It's just a bad shield for Bandos solo. I can see it being a good tank shield in a team though.

 

I wasn't responding to anyone in particular, just to the discussion prompt.

 

But now that you bring it up, I suppose CKS COULD be compared to the DFS, although I'm not sure how willing I would be to go out and charge the thing.

 

Someone said before, though, that the CKS = Elysian?

 

Although I'm just waiting until the dragon defender just blows all of these shields out of the water.

[Bladewing]

Divine may be overwealmingly better, but it DOES cost 1b+ street price, or ~500m if you snipe in GE (which you won't, but for argument's sake, let's use this as the price).

 

At Frost Dragons, that's over 145 hours of work required.

 

CKS is 200k tokens, which will take about 25 hours if you go from ~level 80 (eg. after buying a rapier).

 

I can think of a lot of things I can do with 120 hours.

you can sell the divine back you cannot sell the cks back

 

your argument seems to have backfired?