Dungeoneering Shields Discussion

[Den]

I was bored so I made this quick graph because I was curious how much better the shields soaked compared to each other.

Since Elysians soak 25%, 70% of the time, I put it at an avarage of 17,5% soaking, 100% of the time.

The one below is if Elysian soaked 25%, 100% of the time.

 

Red = Base Damage

Green = Divine

Blue = Elysian

DG Shield at 14% = Dark Gray

DG Shield at 7% = Light Gray

 

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[DyingSilent]

The surgebox doesn't count as a shield, so don't use tank ring with it (from mod Chris L on HLF). Also from my experience you end up taking less damage using gatherer/artisan ring while keying.

 

Taken from "pro dg'ing" topic, can't comment on the reliability of said quote, however

 

Yeah that's one of the posts I was referring to lol. I'm just getting on, so I'll look into it. I only have T5 tank ring atm though :mellow:

[brunokiller]

An average dungeon is 27 minutes? I can't remember the last 5:5 large I did that took less than an hour on world 148 >.<

 

Can someone please explain how in the hell youbare doing dungeons so fast, and where I can find teams like this at level 75 dg, 136 cmb, P2H and plate?

 

Go dung with me and my friends some time :P

 

Solo keying while I call my lvl 100 friend( who doesn't so much damage) for gd's, and a friend with a lvl 60 pure afks in base, doing it in 30 mins usually. Not even bad xp as well.

[LatinII]

I have a farseer kiteshield. Here are some of the damage reductions I am getting. Left is the damage I was taking. Right is the amount of damage being soaked.

 

446 - 39

602 - 65

391 - 30

527 - 53

766 - 91

446 - 42

333 - 21

652 - 73

403 - 32

418 - 35

494 - 47

403 - 32

493 - 47

529 - 53

553 - 57

536 - 54

[sumondskull6]

I'd be happy do go with you, Bruno :P

Afa the hood goes, yeah, I'm just unlucky :/

[xSxqPowerx]

I have a farseer kiteshield. Here are some of the damage reductions I am getting. Left is the damage I was taking. Right is the amount of damage being soaked.

 

446 - 39

602 - 65

391 - 30

527 - 53

766 - 91

446 - 42

333 - 21

652 - 73

403 - 32

418 - 35

494 - 47

403 - 32

493 - 47

529 - 53

553 - 57

536 - 54

Thanks.

 

According to this, you are indeed having hits reduced by

((actual+soaked)-200)*.14

[LatinII]

Yeah. It ALWAYS soaked 14% of what I got hit, minus the 200 damage needed to activate the soaking.

 

I think the farseer kiteshield is pretty cool. No, it can't be compared to a divine, but +17 magic attack, defensive bonuses comparable to an arcane and with a 14% damage reduction for every Melee hit above 200 is pretty good.

[xpx]

Yeah. It ALWAYS soaked 14% of what I got hit, minus the 200 damage needed to activate the soaking.

 

I think the farseer kiteshield is pretty cool. No, it can't be compared to a divine, but +17 magic attack, defensive bonuses comparable to an arcane and with a 14% damage reduction for every Melee hit above 200 is pretty good.

But the problem is, the maximum soaking you actually got was around 10%(of the whole damage), and apart from safe pvp(as you'd never take it to bh) it would barely soak any damage. Thus, for anything realistic, the shield has no damage soaking ability, and has worse stats than a shield much easier(and cheaper) to get. And if you factor in the 100k an hour cost, forget about it.

[Boeg3]

I tested my Eagle eye with a friend of mine.

 

I soaked 38 lp, and he hit a 359 on me.

That whole 14% of the damage over 200...is BS.

 

without the soak, he would have hit a 393 on me.

393-200 = 193

14% of 193 = 27

 

according to the calculations that have been presented, the 38 soak should not be possible.

 

That being said, the dungeoneering reward shields are not worth getting, except for the Eagle-eye (imo) for warring.

 

0,86x+28=y

x beeing initial damage

y beeing final damage

 

0,86x removes 14% from the initial hit

+28 puts the 14% from the 200 first damage, which is never soaked, back - those 14% off 200 is 28

 

therein lies the equation: 0,86+28=y

I do agree, however, that you should never be able to soak 38 damage from that hit, because:

 

0,86x+28=359

=

0,86x=359-28

=

(359/0,86)-28=x

x = 389,44 = 390 initial hit

 

((390-200)/100)*14= 26,6 damage soaked

 

The equation is take directly from jagex tho: QFC: 15-16-815-61884558

 

Conclusion: either you read it wrong, the 38 soaked damage wasnt from the 359 hit OR Jagex cant do their own math.

[SirIzenhime]

I'm 99% sure I didn't read it wrong, and it was with only one person attacking me....no one else was around. I know where the equation was taken from, but at a time like this, Jagex seems to be one the LAST places we should be looking for clarification on how the shields work.

[Boeg3]

I'm 99% sure I didn't read it wrong, and it was with only one person attacking me....no one else was around. I know where the equation was taken from, but at a time like this, Jagex seems to be one the LAST places we should be looking for clarification on how the shields work.

I did think, that Jagex doing their own math wrong, was the most likely of the 3 possibilities

honestly..

[Blutters]

You can only really train Dungeoneering in one way, so there's not much of a cost VS cost type thing; if you're DG'ing for DG XP, how can you use the cost/hr efficiency argument? You're leveling Dungeoneering at the same time, so it might as well be said that you're training Dungeoneering as a main objective and gaining tokens on the side. I guess I just find it unfair to negate the importance of the DG XP you get in the examples of FKS VS ASS (lol).

 

Because dung XP is useless after 85 unless your in it for the e-peen.

 

Everything after that has tokens as the primary objective. And thus you measure the efficiency of gaining tokens in comparison to gaining money.

You don't DG to unlock new content? That's my main objective... :(

The DG bosses are more challenging and have better mechanics than RRS bosses (even though some would disagree for the sake of disagreeing...) and the lore keeps up with even the best quest storylines.

 

I thought of a better allusion to clarify what I said before though - Woodcutting with Ivy or Magic Trees.

Most people consider Ivy more efficient because they can make more money through other activities while gaining quicker XP with Ivy. For Dungeoneering, aside from rather random bits of XP from bonus sources (and no tokens at that), there truly is only one place or method to train it. To simplify the argument: DG XP is invaluable because it is unique to training DG directly.

 

Also to further my previous comment about Castle Wars and the Chaotic Kiteshield:

Magic Defense does not matter [as much] in Castle Wars, for those who are not going after the flag anyway. I have first hand experience from when I was 95ish Magic that one can easily hit through Armadyl and Deflect Magic and even quite high at that. Even those people with Spectral, Arma top/legs, Inf boots - the works - can often get frozen and then killed with just Magic, although some will almost always slip through.

Clotting is rather literally just getting as many players as possible to pile you for as long as possible to take away from the other team's Defenses. In this sense, the DFS or CKS are superior to the DSS because you don't want to carry any potions (except OVL, pers-pref) around with you. Typically, ancienters will stay within their own base to guard their flag, so you won't have to worry about them anyway. I personally am not concerned with costs of quicker degradation since I'd already be using CR and since CW has no real benefits anyway.

[PereGrin]

Doing that at castle wars seems like it would waste charge immensely. Idk how long it would take, but recharging a CKS every 10 games would be a huge waste of money. Assuming that it drains like the weapons, but also depending on how much damage you soak, it seems like it would break pretty fast when you are trying to get tons of people to pile you constantly.

[gypsyeater]

I think having a spectral is still better for castle wars in my oppinion. As you take much less damage if you're not standing still. (frozen).

 

I could even go as far to say you'd take less damage with a spectral than a divine.

 

Even when not capturing, as one of the team members getting frozen can often mean loosing the match.

[Golvellius]

Doing that at castle wars seems like it would waste charge immensely. Idk how long it would take, but recharging a CKS every 10 games would be a huge waste of money. Assuming that it drains like the weapons, but also depending on how much damage you soak, it seems like it would break pretty fast when you are trying to get tons of people to pile you constantly.

Its closer to 50 games than 10.

[gago]

Since this topic is on the first page, i have to bump it a bit.

 

Compared to cheaper shields(like DFS, maybe spectral or arcane), are DG shields worth using for anything at all? Like CKS for bandos or EEKS for arma?

[SirIzenhime]

Chaotic is good for dagannoth kings

Eagle eye is good for armadyl, and nex (though many say unholy book for the offense)

Farseer is more of a Pvp thing, since mageable bosses don't really exist.

[gago]

I don't think i'd choose CKS over DFS at dagannoth kings, as they don't hit as hard.

[brunokiller]

I bought a farseer kite because it had 20% melee reduction as an alternative to divine/ely. Then it turned out that jagex is stupid <_<

 

At least it looks somewhat decent.

 

I'm 89 dungeoneering and dont have another chaotic lol.

[Runecrafts]

If you don't have the money for the blessed spirit shields (Spec,arc,ely,divine), would these shields be worth getting?

[Quyneax]

If you don't have the money for the blessed spirit shields (Spec,arc,ely,divine), would these shields be worth getting?

Probably not, making money for spirit shields is a lot more versatile. You can always resell it.

[brunokiller]

If you don't have the money for the blessed spirit shields (Spec,arc,ely,divine), would these shields be worth getting?

 

Buy arcane instead of farseer, spectral instead of eagle eye. the only real shield without counterpart is the cks (stat wise) if you must get one. Needless to say none of the shields are worth it unless you have all the other rewards already.

[Michael]

If you don't have the money for the blessed spirit shields (Spec,arc,ely,divine), would these shields be worth getting?

 

Buy arcane instead of farseer, spectral instead of eagle eye. the only real shield without counterpart is the cks (stat wise) if you must get one. Needless to say none of the shields are worth it unless you have all the other rewards already.

 

I wouldn't even recommend it then, the shields are pretty useless, you'd be better of buying experience or ring classes.