120 constitution

[Troacctid]

I'm seeing three different forms of argument against raising the cap here. If you have one other than these three that I missed, please point it out.

 

1) "Only a small percentage will benefit from this and that makes me sadface!" So? Hardly anyone's gonna get 120 dungeoneering, and that's something you have to actively work at to achieve rather than just doing a lot of bossing or slayer with hp exp as a side bonus. Hell, what percentage of people will ever get slayer and runecrafting capes? But those exist. When has a small number of people being able to get something been a valid argument against it? It's called a goal. A common offshoot of that argument is "I'm never going to get 120 constitution so therefore nobody else should either because I'll be jealous," which should be obviously wrong.

 

2) "It will unbalance combat, look at how hard I don't show examples of this!" Yeah, okay. That 21 extra hp is really going to make everything impossible for lower levels in the future. It's not like everyone without over maxed HP will be able to keep playing like they always have, this will literally destroy everything for low levels who don't want to get 120 hp. Common offshoot is "this will mess up the food market!" No it won't. Protip- people with 99 hp generally don't eat food anyway. We have soul split, unicorns, EEE, bunyips, Guthan's, and overloads/brews. 120 hp would mean NOTHING compared to all those things. Take away all the healing methods I mentioned and give me a 120 hp cap and guess what- I'll probably use food lol.

 

3) "There are better ways to boost the hp cap like potions and armor!" Yes, and those should happen too. This is one aspect that could take place in addition to all the other ones. It's not like Jagex is going to raise the hp cap and just go "whew, that was tough, time to ignore combat for another 6 months!"

 

Well, okay, maybe they would, but they shouldn't. My point is that this tweak would not mean the end-all of tweaks to the constitution skill, which makes that a completely invalid argument.

1. Missing the point. The point is not will people do this, it's should people be encouraged to do this. No they shouldn't.

 

2. 120 HP is something the developers would have to keep in mind every time they make new boss monsters. Forever. It will become impossible to design challenging fights for maxed players without making them ridiculously difficult for non-maxed players. You don't see this because you're not the one who has to wrestle with designing and balancing the fights; you just fight them. But it makes it much harder for the developers to design good content.

 

3. Missing the point again. The point was that those things eliminate any need to raise the level cap for HP. What are you trying to accomplish by raising the HP cap? Well, HP-boosting gear has already accomplished all of it, so there's no point raising the HP cap.

[green9090]

1. Missing the point. The point is not will people do this, it's should people be encouraged to do this. No they shouldn't.

 

2. 120 HP is something the developers would have to keep in mind every time they make new boss monsters. Forever. It will become impossible to design challenging fights for maxed players without making them ridiculously difficult for non-maxed players. You don't see this because you're not the one who has to wrestle with designing and balancing the fights; you just fight them. But it makes it much harder for the developers to design good content.

 

3. Missing the point again. The point was that those things eliminate any need to raise the level cap for HP. What are you trying to accomplish by raising the HP cap? Well, HP-boosting gear has already accomplished all of it, so there's no point raising the HP cap.

1. You're right. Encouraging people to level up in an RPG is ridiculous. It's not like that's the foundation of everything currently in the game.

 

2. Not really. HP cap has relatively little to do with difficulty of a fight unless you're talking bosses that are going to be KOing people often, in which case we already have solutions to that (for example, Nomad has an attack that will always take off all but a tiny chunk of your LP, regardless of your HP level). And if we get alternatives like HP-boosting armor and potions that can compensate for a low HP level, well, there you go.

 

3. What am I trying to accomplish with the raised hp cap? An outlet for the deluge of extra exp that floods in from every angle every time you try to do anything. I want to make money? I'm getting extra hp exp. I want to go boss hunting? More exp. Champion scrolls? Tons of exp. Maxing slayer and summoning and dungeoneering? SO MUCH exp.

 

I think you might be the one missing the point. Which is not exactly surprising given the fact that you're only 87 hp.

[Troacctid]

1. Missing the point. The point is not will people do this, it's should people be encouraged to do this. No they shouldn't.

 

2. 120 HP is something the developers would have to keep in mind every time they make new boss monsters. Forever. It will become impossible to design challenging fights for maxed players without making them ridiculously difficult for non-maxed players. You don't see this because you're not the one who has to wrestle with designing and balancing the fights; you just fight them. But it makes it much harder for the developers to design good content.

 

3. Missing the point again. The point was that those things eliminate any need to raise the level cap for HP. What are you trying to accomplish by raising the HP cap? Well, HP-boosting gear has already accomplished all of it, so there's no point raising the HP cap.

1. You're right. Encouraging people to level up in an RPG is ridiculous. It's not like that's the foundation of everything currently in the game.

 

2. Not really. HP cap has relatively little to do with difficulty of a fight unless you're talking bosses that are going to be KOing people often, in which case we already have solutions to that (for example, Nomad has an attack that will always take off all but a tiny chunk of your LP, regardless of your HP level). And if we get alternatives like HP-boosting armor and potions that can compensate for a low HP level, well, there you go.

 

3. What am I trying to accomplish with the raised hp cap? An outlet for the deluge of extra exp that floods in from every angle every time you try to do anything. I want to make money? I'm getting extra hp exp. I want to go boss hunting? More exp. Champion scrolls? Tons of exp. Maxing slayer and summoning and dungeoneering? SO MUCH exp.

 

I think you might be the one missing the point. Which is not exactly surprising given the fact that you're only 87 hp.

 

1. Are you suggesting that the game doesn't already encourage people to level up? Look, we're not just talking about maxing out. We're talking about training to 200m XP. Why do you want to encourage people to do that?

 

2. Uh...what? Of course it does.

 

3. You imagine it as a reward for people who already have it. In reality, it is also an incentive for people who don't already have it. Those sorts of incentives are unhealthy for the game.

[Obtaurian]

Uh, what? Since when does level 120 = 200m exp? It's 104m.

[Racer434]

1. Missing the point. The point is not will people do this, it's should people be encouraged to do this. No they shouldn't.

 

2. 120 HP is something the developers would have to keep in mind every time they make new boss monsters. Forever. It will become impossible to design challenging fights for maxed players without making them ridiculously difficult for non-maxed players. You don't see this because you're not the one who has to wrestle with designing and balancing the fights; you just fight them. But it makes it much harder for the developers to design good content.

 

3. Missing the point again. The point was that those things eliminate any need to raise the level cap for HP. What are you trying to accomplish by raising the HP cap? Well, HP-boosting gear has already accomplished all of it, so there's no point raising the HP cap.

1. You're right. Encouraging people to level up in an RPG is ridiculous. It's not like that's the foundation of everything currently in the game.

 

2. Not really. HP cap has relatively little to do with difficulty of a fight unless you're talking bosses that are going to be KOing people often, in which case we already have solutions to that (for example, Nomad has an attack that will always take off all but a tiny chunk of your LP, regardless of your HP level). And if we get alternatives like HP-boosting armor and potions that can compensate for a low HP level, well, there you go.

 

3. What am I trying to accomplish with the raised hp cap? An outlet for the deluge of extra exp that floods in from every angle every time you try to do anything. I want to make money? I'm getting extra hp exp. I want to go boss hunting? More exp. Champion scrolls? Tons of exp. Maxing slayer and summoning and dungeoneering? SO MUCH exp.

 

I think you might be the one missing the point. Which is not exactly surprising given the fact that you're only 87 hp.

 

 

I agree with both of arguments but I think jegax has no real way to appease everyone in this scenario. If they raise the hp cap and by continuation raise other skills to 120 then for people starting the game the amount of griding in the game will seem un approachable but on the other hand if they don't provide huge high level grindable content then the high levels who pay alot of membership money will dwindle as they run out of things to do.

 

In my own opinion I would rather have less grinding content and more talent oriented content so 120 hp or alot of 120 skills in general just seems bad to me.

 

I play the game the way I want to play it, grinding isn't really all that fun unless its slayer, so i try and keep non slayer grinding to a minium

[Troacctid]

Uh, what? Since when does level 120 = 200m exp? It's 104m.

It's HP, so you need to get 200m xp in other skills to get to 104m HP.

[green9090]

1. Are you suggesting that the game doesn't already encourage people to level up? Look, we're not just talking about maxing out. We're talking about training to 200m XP. Why do you want to encourage people to do that?

 

2. Uh...what? Of course it does.

 

3. You imagine it as a reward for people who already have it. In reality, it is also an incentive for people who don't already have it. Those sorts of incentives are unhealthy for the game.

1. No, I'm suggesting that encouraging people to gain experience is an extremely well-established precedent here. It's not like until now the game has been about doing whatever and abilities just fall out of the sky and all of a sudden I'm like "how about people who have spent longer working on stuff become better at it?" Which is what you seem to be implying by saying that encouraging exp = reward is some sort of evil thing that shouldn't happen.

 

Side note- level 120 is like 104m exp, not 200m.

 

2. Nuh uh. Your turn. I provided examples for why it doesn't matter, you're going to need to counter that with something more meaningful than an empty negation.

 

3. See 1. Unhealthy for the game? Keeping maxed players playing is unhealthy? Yeah, you're right, we should just kick everyone out at 2000 total so that the game can focus on more meaningless mid level content that nobody will ever use.

 

What the hell could possibly be unhealthy about providing extra content to reach?

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

i think of all the skills, HP, err, con, is the one that would be best to make its max level 120.

 

thats not to say it should be 120, but if any skill (besdies dunge) where to be made that level, it would be con.

 

however if there comes enough hp boosting items like con pots or rock tails and/or enough damage reduceing items like chaotic shields (but usefull >.>) then there would be no need for hp to get any higher. for a while at least.

 

 

although it must be said the in the end, when jagex finealy gives very high level (90+) weapons and armour etc and people go around hitting 2000 lp max hits with some uber kickass weapons. boosting con level to 120 or higher would be allmsot vital.

 

just think, dclaws require level 60 attack and compleation of an easy quest (NOT wgs) to use. yes there exspensive but money can be gained in any amount at any combat level.

iit hits large hits with its specal 4 times, twice.

 

now think of a weapon with that spec that required 90 attack.

ouch.

[Racer434]

What the hell could possibly be unhealthy about providing extra content that nobody wants to spend half their life trying to reach?

 

fixed

 

Ya I feel like if you max all skills to 99 its about time to quit, I mean going for front page ranks is cool and all but unless your bed ridden or have some special work circumstance that allows you to play 10+ hours a day... Common.

 

I don't really want to be rude to any players going for 200m or whatnot but I will never do that myself because I would rather be gaining experience irl :ugeek:

[Gandorf61]

Moved to suggestions and removed some bad posts. Let's keep a mature discussion going ok? :thumbup:

[Obtaurian]

Uh, what? Since when does level 120 = 200m exp? It's 104m.

It's HP, so you need to get 200m xp in other skills to get to 104m HP.

 

Only if you intentionally go for 200m exp in a single combat skill. For example, I will definitely NOT have any combat skills near 200m exp by the time I get 104m constitution exp, and I'm not even strict about keeping my combat experience equal.

[Articultural]

So, hypothetically, if Jagex were to decide to raise HP to 120 because you get so much extra XP, why not raise other skills to 120 too? I have enough XP for over 99 in almost every level 99 I have, why should my HP be raised above 99 but not any of my other post-99 skills?

[Range_This11]

It seems to me (and this is a recurring trend) that people are really afraid of Runescape changing. The more I read through this thread, the more I want to see it bumped to 120. This game is getting stagnant and I think that a bump to 120, although a drastic change, would ultimately be good for the game. It would open a lot more doors than it would close.

 

And this got moved to suggestions? I thought this was more of a hypothetical discussion than a suggestion. General Discussion needs better topics, move it back.

[Articultural]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the idea of 120s. In fact, I'd prefer if all stats went up to 120 (and Jagex would work towards trying to increase the max XP by swapping to 64bit instead of 32bit). I just don't see why Constitution should be boosted and the rest left at 99, especially as there is so much space to expand the constitution skill already (IIRC, there are only three things in RS that require a HP level).

[Quyneax]

I don't really support. Yes, it's easy to think they should raise the caps when you have been playing 6 years, and you've accumulated 30+m hp xp, but seriously, even for the above average gamer, 104m HP xp is a bit too much of a grind.

 

Sigh. I don't get why people have this "everybody has to be casual" mentality.

How do you conclude that Bedman (or anyone, really) wants everybody to be casual?

 

Anyway consider this:

 

One needs a reason to change the level cap (don't fix it if it isn't broken). I think we agree on this.

 

Now you (plural) say there are reasons.

 

It would reward people with that xp, which makes some players happy, which is a good thing.

[hide]

It might make players unhappy, which may be a good thing, but I think not.

It might be a bad idea to reward what is called an 'unhealthy game style'.

[/hide]

 

It would also improve pvp by reducing rushing effectiveness.

[hide]

Improve is, of course, subjective. Some people like rushing.

Few pvpers will actually have the health needed to prevent a good claw or gmaul combo. Rushing may not be reduced at all, or very little.

[/hide]

 

It would also improve pvm by allowing for harder bosses.

[hide]

Again, improve is subjective. Some people like easier bosses or campable bosses.

Boss hardness is not directly related to max hit. "HP cap has relatively little to do with difficulty of a fight" as green said.

[/hide]

So really, in the end, nothing you provide as a reason is an uncontested argument. You should not pretend that it is a solved case, that everybody who opposes this is irrelevant or that logic proves you right (regardless of whether you did any of this or not).

 

Try to identify the problems you intend to solve with this. Please post them, unambiguously worded, so we can all propose solutions to the same problem. Once we know what problem you are adressing, we can determine whether 120 con would adress those problems in the best way possible.

[PereGrin]

I'm getting close to untrimmed hp, and then I plan on getting at least all 99 melees at the same time to trim it. I would HATE my hp cape trimming just cause I got level 100 in it before I get any other skill capes. :thumbdown: for increasing the HP level cap.

[Articultural]

I'm getting close to untrimmed hp, and then I plan on getting at least all 99 melees at the same time to trim it. I would HATE my hp cape trimming just cause I got level 100 in it before I get any other skill capes. :thumbdown: for increasing the HP level cap.

 

Level 100 in one skill =/= level 99 in two skills. That's not how RS works.

[Quyneax]

I'm getting close to untrimmed hp, and then I plan on getting at least all 99 melees at the same time to trim it. I would HATE my hp cape trimming just cause I got level 100 in it before I get any other skill capes. :thumbdown: for increasing the HP level cap.

 

Level 100 in one skill =/= level 99 in two skills. That's not how RS works.

100 dg trims 99 dg.

[xpx]

I'm getting close to untrimmed hp, and then I plan on getting at least all 99 melees at the same time to trim it. I would HATE my hp cape trimming just cause I got level 100 in it before I get any other skill capes. :thumbdown: for increasing the HP level cap.

 

Level 100 in one skill =/= level 99 in two skills. That's not how RS works.

100 dg trims 99 dg.

Oh my, this is a terrible idea when you consider that hp levels above 99 trim your capes. Absolutely horrific.

 

PLEASE, cape trimming is the MOST trivial stupid reason anyone can give against this idea or any other idea. Guess what? some people NEVER had a chance to own any untrimmed cape, so posting this as a reason is just stupid. No untrimmed cape is a major achievement, not even close when you consider how hard 120 HP would be(and don't be mistaken on this, HP alone is one of the if not the harderst skill in the game).

[Articultural]

I'm getting close to untrimmed hp, and then I plan on getting at least all 99 melees at the same time to trim it. I would HATE my hp cape trimming just cause I got level 100 in it before I get any other skill capes. :thumbdown: for increasing the HP level cap.

 

Level 100 in one skill =/= level 99 in two skills. That's not how RS works.

100 dg trims 99 dg.

 

HP =/= DG.

[Youmu]

Oh my, this is a terrible idea when you consider that hp levels above 99 trim your capes. Absolutely horrific.

 

PLEASE, cape trimming is the MOST trivial stupid reason anyone can give against this idea or any other idea. Guess what? some people NEVER had a chance to own any untrimmed cape, so posting this as a reason is just stupid. No untrimmed cape is a major achievement, not even close when you consider how hard 120 HP would be(and don't be mistaken on this, HP alone is one of the if not the harderst skill in the game).

Exactly. And since untrimmed capes have WORSE stats than trimmed ones there's even less validity in that argument. (Though skillcapes themselves are shunned compared to other capes...)

 

Also how do you "not" get an untrimmed cape? Get 2 cb 99's at the same time? Just wondering.

[Articultural]

Get two 99s before skillcapes came out.

[Zaaps1]

I never thought about it, but now that it's brought up, I think 120 cap on HP is a very viable suggestion. I'm not sure how happy I would be, since I'd probably end up grinding (or at least trying to, lol), but I certainly would not mind it and it's a very helpful and useful addition to the game.

 

Support.

[uzi0espil]

i agree 100%

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

thats because it will be very helpful..

 

as im tierd of maxing things..

 

when there is 120 hp or watever (constitution) pro players will be like :ohnoes:

 

for me thats runescape! i hate it when there is more than 15 players maxed in the game!

 

like old days back in zezima and uloveme and yogosun and like 4 others were on maxed>>

 

i want it like there..

 

 

and there is alot other good results and benefits from this as u said

[Sir_Squab]

If you want those days back, get rid of skillcapes. That's the real reason why so many people are maxed. People just didn't bother before hand because only a select few actually had the combination of desire, motivation and willpower to become maxed. The main thing missing was motivation, in pre-skillcape days, most people saw no point beyond maybe getting the level required for the highest level thing in that skill.

 

Sure, release 120 con and it'll be a while before we see lots of maxed people - just like with DG, took a while before the people who had previously maxed got 120. And yet, count them now.

 

Anyways, if you want to suggest people getting 120HP, suggest a way to get 500k/1m+ constitution exp per hour. I'm personally against it, but raise exp rates for 100+ constitution, but give higher levels better way to train it....