Too much damage

[Sir_Squab]

Overhauling defense won't happen because they'd have to overhaul it across the board (i.e. update every single monster) to prevent it from making PvM an even bigger joke than it already is. And if they release new armor that blocks damage, it'll immediately be bought up en masse by greedy [bleep]ing manipulator clans and will remain unbuyable in the GE for years to come, being only available to the obscenely wealthy or those who possess discontinued items. It's really a catch-22.

 

Orrrrrrrrrrrrr they just make it common enough so that doesn't happen? I mean, it happens to pretty much any new item in the first couple months, but still. This only happens if they release something with the drop rate of a divine lol.

 

I still think the idea of chaotic shields was a perfect fix for the defense problem, at least the concept of how the shields work; er, how people originally thought they worked. If something hits over Y damage, and Y > X, the damage is reduced and the new damage is Y * Z. Basically, damage absorption for high hits, which shouldn't unbalance too much PVM. Maybe a couple bosses, but Jagex could always put some sort of restriction on these items. Causes GW bosses to hit more for some reason, not allowed in the fight caves, maybe not the corp cave either.

 

Maybe I'll try pk'ing with it, so far I've always failed....ice barrage or venge + koraskis ;)

[Sir_Kurity]

the testing would take a long time and i don't see a need to test it in addition to my personal experience since i'm already pretty certain.

 

I don't have access to even close to max mage defence yet, so i can't test it even if i wanted to. Plus, none of my friends have korasis sword.

 

there is no point to arguing this - if you are so eager to prove me wrong, go and test it yourself

 

Burden of proof. Your the one [cabbage]ting contrary to all past evidence, its your job to prove yourself right. Until then, i'm going by the logical assumption that korasis works like any other weapon, with no exclusive damage reduction.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

i had a post in a topic somewhat like this.

it basicly hold true for this thread two.

 

make range has the longest ranges weapons (mostly) give made slightly shorter range weapons. and melee, well, as melee.

give range less acuracy but more KO potnetail.

give melee less accuracy and less KO.

give make more accuracy and more KO.

 

make all melee weapons of ther same metal closer togeather in efectiveness (aka, not scimy > everything)

 

also give a give a bunch of mage items specal attacks. (mems)

 

make most specal attacks less geard towards KOing.

 

that sums up what i think. the ability to 1 or 2 hit people with melee is way to high. while the other classes its too low.

[JustAGamer]

Suprised nobody mentioned this, but when Jagex updated the Equip Screen, I hoped the damage reduction meant more items would have this function. I imagine a few other people had this hope (although they might have considered it a false one). If they adjusted that, I wouldn't mind Jagex adjusting KO Potential at a later date so long as they were working on the problem.

 

That said, I'm holding my cards until the next BTS update in a few hours. If Jagex doesn't give us anything, I'm going to fold and head back into exile at daemonheim for the foreseeable future.

[Sir_Squab]

Suprised nobody mentioned this, but when Jagex updated the Equip Screen, I hoped the damage reduction meant more items would have this function. I imagine a few other people had this hope (although they might have considered it a false one). If they adjusted that, I wouldn't mind Jagex adjusting KO Potential at a later date so long as they were working on the problem.

 

That said, I'm holding my cards until the next BTS update in a few hours. If Jagex doesn't give us anything, I'm going to fold and head back into exile at daemonheim for the foreseeable future.

 

Your prayers have been answered.

[Yay0siris]

lolz look at dec updates

 

damage soaking

[SirIzenhime]

 

Anyways, I think they your defense bonus should reduce damage taken.

 

 

Boy...I was close...

[Pinata]

 

 

there is no point to arguing this - if you are so eager to prove me wrong, go and test it yourself

 

Burden of proof. Your the one [cabbage]ting contrary to all past evidence, its your job to prove yourself right. Until then, i'm going by the logical assumption that korasis works like any other weapon, with no exclusive damage reduction.

 

 

I'm going to have to agree with TheAncient, because your magical defence is based off your magic skill and not your Defence skill.

 

For example if you ever see those 133 shades in demonheim, you could use pro range to block its ranged attack, and Augury to greatly reduce its magic attack, although if you don't do much dps, you will waste a lot of prayer. I think Korasis sword may have the same effects as bloodvelds. Pro melee blocks att 100&, but magic armor reduces damage w/o pro melee.

 

Someone should try Pro melee while wearing d-hide and using augury or other magic increasing skills.

[Troacctid]

I think Korasis sword may have the same effects as bloodvelds. Pro melee blocks att 100&, but magic armor reduces damage w/o pro melee.

Except you don't reduce damage from bloodvelds with magic armor, you just defend normally.

[SirIzenhime]

[hide]

 

 

there is no point to arguing this - if you are so eager to prove me wrong, go and test it yourself

 

Burden of proof. Your the one [cabbage]ting contrary to all past evidence, its your job to prove yourself right. Until then, i'm going by the logical assumption that korasis works like any other weapon, with no exclusive damage reduction.

 

 

I'm going to have to agree with TheAncient, because your magical defence is based off your magic skill and not your Defence skill.

 

For example if you ever see those 133 shades in demonheim, you could use pro range to block its ranged attack, and Augury to greatly reduce its magic attack, although if you don't do much dps, you will waste a lot of prayer. I think Korasis sword may have the same effects as bloodvelds. Pro melee blocks att 100&, but magic armor reduces damage w/o pro melee.

 

Someone should try Pro melee while wearing d-hide and using augury or other magic increasing skills.

[/hide]

 

Do you realize that nothing you just said has ANYTHING to do with REDUCING damage?

[Hajutze]

BTW since when magic def is not Magic level + Def level o.O (+ armor and etc) ?

[SirIzenhime]

BTW since when magic def is not Magic level + Def level o.O (+ armor and etc) ?

 

Your defense against magic is affected both by you Magic, and defense level. As well as the magic defense your equipment gives.

 

Your magic level provides more defense then your defense level.

[Hajutze]

BTW since when magic def is not Magic level + Def level o.O (+ armor and etc) ?

 

Your defense against magic is affected both by you Magic, and defense level. As well as the magic defense your equipment gives.

 

Your magic level provides more defense then your defense level.

 

I'm going to have to agree with TheAncient, because your magical defence is based off your magic skill and not your Defence skill.

 

He could've fooled me.

[TheAncient]

it's often been quoted as 70% of your magic level and 30% of your defense level

 

anyway OT: i encourage you to watch youtube videos of KS and look at max hits against mage armor and melee armor and see if you notice any difference

 

on BTS:

kudos to jagex for one step (among many future ones apparently!) to balancing combat

[Pinata]

Hmm, I suppose your right is 70%, 30% lol my bad. lol maybe korasis sword is similar to nomads attacks?

 

Anyways, damage soaking will be a nice feature, although regenerating HP faster as your HP level increases would be really nice, considering HP is really only good for lowering your chances of being koed.

[Sir_Kurity]

 

 

there is no point to arguing this - if you are so eager to prove me wrong, go and test it yourself

 

Burden of proof. Your the one [cabbage]ting contrary to all past evidence, its your job to prove yourself right. Until then, i'm going by the logical assumption that korasis works like any other weapon, with no exclusive damage reduction.

 

I'm going to have to agree with TheAncient, because your magical defence is based off your magic skill and not your Defence skill.

 

Yea, i know fully well what magic defence is based off of, and i honestly don't see how this is relevant at all. I mean comon, did you even read my post or did you just spout evenm more unrelated BS?

 

Anyway theres 2 things you need to take into account.

 

1. Defence doesn't soak damage. AT ALL (until new update of course).

2. Korasis is 100% accurate, so thus is uneffected by defence.

 

Therefore, until tested otherwise, defence does not matter.

[Assume Nothing]

It is 100% accurate and the chance of it hitting high hits is reduced by magic defense.

Feel free to disagree with me but you'd most likely be wrong

Your insane, the only armor with damage reduction is dung shields, elysians, and divines.

The rest only reduce the chance of hit, unless jagex made an exception for korasis sword and only korasis (which is very unlikely).

In other words, unless you have actual evidence that mage defence has a damage reduction that exclusively applies to korasi sword specs, get your head out of your ass.

Go test it yourself before you say things like that

He is actually right, few tests and personal experience are not enough to prove something. As for now there are no indications that the magic def reduces the damage.

Surely not proven, but highly certain

 

 

You're just making yourself look silly. There is no proof whatsoever that magic defence reduces damage at all. You cannot just base your argument on 'what it feels like', because anyone could just as easily make claims like that without justification.

 

In terms of dice rolls of the combat system, it simply doesn't make sense why more magic defence would equal less chances of getting hit high with a Korasi Special in Single. If the accuracy rolls are simply ignored, and the damage is calculated, why would magic defence even matter at all?

 

The best way to prove that the weapon hits no matter what, is to wear -65 magic and melee attack bonuses. It's proven that you cannot hit with any spell if you have -65 magic attack bonus, or any weapon if the attack style has an attack bonus of -65

 

Oh, and don't even think about using the 'prove me wrong' justification. If you can't prove yourself right, then you're automatically wrong.

 

A normal hit works like this;

 

Your attack dice and the opponent's defence dice is thrown. If your attack dice has won, move on to second dice.

 

Your strength dice decides how high you hit. You have equal chance of hitting all numbers from 0 to your max hit. Whatever figure is thrown is the figure you'll hit, unless there's a damage multiplier, which your figure will be multiplied by (provided they have the life points to deduct).

 

Your exp is calculated, and damage is taken by the next game tick. Your opponent's life points will be deducted by what you hit.

 

A Korasi's special would simply jump the first stage, and go straight to the strength roll. Seeing that the accuracy part is negated, how would wearing dhides reduce damage, exactly?

[TheAncient]

lol I will do research on this when I have time. keep your breath held.

[Assume Nothing]

lol I will do research on this when I have time. keep your breath held.

We're waiting. Don't fail to deliver.

[TheAncient]

lol I will do research on this when I have time. keep your breath held.

We're waiting. Don't fail to deliver.

 

Str gear used: 110 strength

No prayers used

No pots used

Max hit should be ~307

 

Against 150 mage defense

 

Expected Mean Hit: 307

Experimental Mean Hit: 287

SD: 87.28

N = 26

Chi square analysis produced X2 value of 2.2, corresponding to a p value of between 0.05 and 0.10 (X2 = 2.7 for p=0.10, X2 = 3.8 for p=0.05)

 

Significant difference? By traditional statistics, yes, as 0.05=p is the usual critical value. Hard to say though for sure, p=0.10 is not an unreasonable critical value. more testing may be needed

 

Do you want me to test mage pray as well? I'm like 99% sure mage pray reduces damage

 

Thanks to Rocked for data collection

[x_bow80]

I read this when it was first posted and just kinda laughed cus i really didnt think jagex would do anything about this for a while. Good call Lep :thumbup:

[Sir_Kurity]

No... Vid or anything?

 

With comparison to neutral mage def o-course.

[TheAncient]

No... Vid or anything?

 

With comparison to neutral mage def o-course.

 

the vid would have been like 20 minutes long, lol... and no i did not vid it.

 

and such a comparison is not needed; you only need to compare the experimental average hit to the maximum hit as calculated normally.

 

you may very well be right and me wrong - we can't say yet for sure, since a p value of 0.10 is in a really dubious region and could go either way.

 

regardless the original point is that it IS possible to defend against it (mage pray and possibly mage gear)

[Sir_Squab]

You know, I have a thought. Is it possible that defense vs accuracy not only affects the chance that you DO hit, but also effects the chance of someone getting high hits vs low hits, providing the person strikes the target?

[green9090]

You know, I have a thought. Is it possible that defense vs accuracy not only affects the chance that you DO hit, but also effects the chance of someone getting high hits vs low hits, providing the person strikes the target?

Extensive testing says no.