Shadow Silk Hood

[Star_Fox]

I want to discuss this very popular item in Daemonheim which is sought by (almost) every dungeoneering fanatics. Forgive me if some of you recognize

this topic from the RSOF.

 

The hood is very useful for rushers and serves as a requirement to participate in any hardcore dungeoning but the problem I noticed with the hood

is that it completely skews the whole concept of binding items. I used to think the hood is terrible but ever since someone was kind enough to let me

bind one, dungeoneering felt too different. Everything was too easy since I haven't gotten a lot of attention from monsters and food was piling up to

the point where teammates asked me to borrow some because they weren't fortunate enough to have a shadow hood.

 

The requirement to join particular clans also raises some questions. Clans require that you have this hood it will obviously help them be

more efficient and consume less time fighting monsters and havocs. As from my experience, there has been NO clans that require you to have

another specific item besides the hood. Unless you count clans that require you to have the ability to bind 3 or more items but again, a majority

requires you to have the hood.

 

I know I might get a little flame for saying this but I think Jagex should intervene and modify the hood's ability to the point where other

items may have a chance of favoring more players to bind something else. I am completely unsatisfied of the binding system

because it just seems too similar. Everyone's goal for binding is the hood + 2h combo. There's NO other specified combos besides

anything that involves the hood. I used to think Dungeoneering was unique and everybody has a chance to play it their own way

but now it just seems like any other skill where only 1 way is the best way....

 

If the hood was removed from dungeoneering, this will favor more challenge and there will be a reason to bind a platebody or something else that

will matter and it honestly wouldn't be a bad thing.

[jettrider]

Having everyone binding a platebody and 2h would somehow make bindsets more diverse? You're not going to encourage variety by removing the best item when there is a clear chain of next best second binds waiting behind it. I've met plenty of people who prefer armour to a hood anyway. It's less useful for soloing and in teams with fewer hoods, in in teams it is a far more dynamic (and yes, better) bind.

 

So what? There's always going to be commonly accepted "best binds" for the first two slots. And, as should be clear from other topics here, deciding what to bind third and fourth, not to mention the ammo slot, is a matter of constant debate and indecision. It's like summoning: do you expect to be able to be able to choose from a wide variety of pouches to make at the lower levels? No, there is always a most efficient way to use charms, but you can always deviate from this to cover your own needs or lower the cost. Dungeoneering is far, far away from being one-dimensional.

 

Dungeoneering has now progressed to the point where soloing your own way is the same experience as doing your own thing in an average (read: not clan-affiliated) team. There is nothing preventing you from choosing your own path to training, not even experience anymore now that the average team is so bad. If you care more about experience than training your own way - or if you decide that rushing is the most enjoyable way to train - then of course you yourself are going to have to be just as efficient as the people you want to train with.

 

 

 

The one legitimate point you didn't bring up was droprate. Is it fair for players at the same level and relative skill/knowledge to not be able to join teams of equal ability? I see the hood drop as inevitable and fairly common enough (indeed, a ridiculous amount more common than the Hexhunter bow, which seems to be encouraged in the better permanent teams) to be a reward on your way up. With higher exp rates, higher monster concentrations, and higher level requirements for dungeoneering clans, it's safe to say that you'll probably get a hood (though there are exceptions) before you're ready to join a clan that requires it.

 

Not having a hood helps you learn to minimize damage and conserve food, which is a very useful skill to have even with a hood. Grimy Bunyip suggested releasing some sort of inferior piece of shadow silk gear that would provide the cloaking effect but some other detriment, removing luck from the equation. I think that's something to discuss, but remove the hood? Not needed.

[Star_Fox]

Having everyone binding a platebody and 2h would be somehow different?

 

 

I RARELY see anyone who favored a platebody over hood. (Unless the person isn't familar with the hood's capabilities)

but yes, it will make a difference since mages will bind a robetop, rangers will bind a leatherbody, etc.

[Bladewing]

so you are saying that because the item is good, it needs to be made bad?

[Star_Fox]

so you are saying that because the item is good, it needs to be made bad?

 

Well, a platebody is decent for defending and a 2h is a good weapon but shadow hood just seems to be more than that.

It's literally the cream of the crop that serves as a trophy for players who want to get the most efficient binds.

Its like an outlier where other items don't matter. That's the problem I'm concerned with but yeah, I would like

it if the hood was nerfed just a little.

[Racheya]

I hate to see dungeoneering becoming a similar 'everyone wear the same thing' setup, and it probably could be more balanced. I personally have rejected the bind of a hood because I never rush or do 'hardcore' dungeoneering. I take my time and I don't imagine that a hood would be as fun to me as being able to mage.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

so you are saying that because the item is good, it needs to be made bad?

 

there is very big difrence between an item being TOO good and made bad, then an item being good and made mad.

 

its another thing entirely for an item to be TOO good and made ok.

im not saying the hood is too good, but its worth pointing out.

 

anyway. yea the hood is usefull, maybe too usefull. imo it would of been best to not have it in the first place, dunge is about skilling and fighting to victory, skilling is allsmot not usefull (besdies gettin in to a bonous room, why would u ever make a skill pot?!), combat is used a lot though, to remove combat also kinda makes things a bit dry.

 

they should put some form of limit on the hoods efect, as though to be sometimes visible wven without a mage.

then also should had harsh melee penaltys (-20 stab, slash, crush?)

[ThePeoplesNo0b]

so you are saying that because the item is good, it needs to be made bad?

 

Well, a platebody is decent for defending and a 2h is a good weapon but shadow hood just seems to be more than that.

It's literally the cream of the crop that serves as a trophy for players who want to get the most efficient binds.

Its like an outlier where other items don't matter. That's the problem I'm concerned with but yeah, I would like

it if the hood was nerfed just a little.

 

 

Wasn't there a thread on the hlf or somewhere with a Mod discussing possible updates to having your items remain with you throughout dungeons if you remained logged in/didn't leave to create new teams, etc? Or was that just a brainstorm that was talked about. I don't remember.

 

However, the hood is the cream of the crop when it comes to speed, which is what 99% of RS is concerned with(at least those with high dung levels). It forces everyone else to follow in their footsteps to at least have a chance of being on a good team. Although, if the person accepts their own risk of getting piled in every room because they don't have it + they accept that people are going to be annoyed sharing food, if the team allows em in, let it ride. (Rare, i know)

 

Yeah its unfair, but it makes the most logical sense. I'm 100 dung, and i used the Hood throughout my climb, and wouldn't have had it any other way <100, because I do care about speed and efficiency.

 

 

 

 

HOWEVER, I do wish the hood wasn't a req for all teams, it kills the teamwork aspect of Dungeoneering that was originally intended; because people get left out. A paradox of sorts.

[jettrider]

Having everyone binding a platebody and 2h would be somehow different?

 

 

I RARELY see anyone who favored a platebody over hood. (Unless the person isn't familar with the hood's capabilities)

but yes, it will make a difference since mages will bind a robetop, rangers will bind a leatherbody, etc.

 

That's because the people who favor platebodies over hoods are soloing, not joining your teams.

 

Also, leatherbody vs. platebody is a debate still going on. It's just not as commonly discussed before 100 (or usually 120) dungeoneering.

 

The [under construction] part became a full post :)

[Bladewing]

in that case, we should reduce the stats of chaotic rapier, abyssal whip, all defenders, amulet of fury, all barrows armor, all spirit shields, and arcane stream necklace. they are outliers and must be nerfed because they are superior to dragon scimitar, rune scimitar, dragon square shield, amulet of power, dragon armor, dragonfire shield, and third age mage amulet.

[TheAncient]

hood is already pretty hard to use well

[Sir_Kurity]

It shouldn't be nerfed.

 

However, other things should be buffed, and there should be a slightly bigger penalty for not killing monsters (But XP should be increased in compensation), which would give more options to getting maximum dungeoneering XP.

[Star_Fox]

in that case, we should reduce the stats of chaotic rapier, abyssal whip, all defenders, amulet of fury, all barrows armor, all spirit shields, and arcane stream necklace. they are outliers and must be nerfed because they are superior to dragon scimitar, rune scimitar, dragon square shield, amulet of power, dragon armor, dragonfire shield, and third age mage amulet.

 

Then it's not an outlier.

[Bladewing]

then hood is not an outlier

[Star_Fox]

then hood is not an outlier

 

You're just like completely ignoring everything I'm saying. The definition of outlier (especially in Statistics) only represents one or few. You're saying

like a gazillion items are outliers to another gazillion items....That's a 5 year old thinking of the word outlier, no offence to you.

 

Whatever the case is, I still stand against the representation of the shadow silk hood.

[Youmu]

I think it's more of an issue of armor being underrepresented. Monsters in Daemonheim practically hit through armor as if it wasn't there.

 

If armor actually defended you as it should be, then it can be considered an option as well.

 

As for the hood, make magic-based monsters (especially forgotten mages) more common, and just like that the hood becomes less useful.

 

Attack styles are underestimated as well. Honestly how many people pure range/mage? Hell, even longswords are underused because stab is less useful than crush/slash on most floors...

[Star_Fox]

I think it's more of an issue of armor being underrepresented. Monsters in Daemonheim practically hit through armor as if it wasn't there.

 

If armor actually defended you as it should be, then it can be considered an option as well.

 

As for the hood, make magic-based monsters (especially forgotten mages) more common, and just like that the hood becomes less useful.

 

Attack styles are underestimated as well. Honestly how many people pure range/mage? Hell, even longswords are underused because stab is less useful than crush/slash on most floors...

 

I agree with the armor issue. I used a prom pl8 and a primal chain, neither of them made any significance to any types of attacks. Having 200+ stab and slash

is basically the same as having only 100+ or even none at all. The combat triangle is partially ignored since rangers hit very frequent through plate armors

and even meleeing rangers are just as hard as ranging them, making it a struggle to kill the ranger only using what you got. So yeah, if the armor actually

matters, then the hood will become less desired but not entirely.

 

 

 

 

 

The one legitimate point you didn't bring up was droprate. Is it fair for players at the same level and relative skill/knowledge to not be able to join teams of equal ability? I see the hood drop as inevitable and fairly common enough (indeed, a ridiculous amount more common than the Hexhunter bow, which seems to be encouraged in the better permanent teams) to be a reward on your way up. With higher exp rates, higher monster concentrations, and higher level requirements for dungeoneering clans, it's safe to say that you'll probably get a hood (though there are exceptions) before you're ready to join a clan that requires it.

 

 

the hood NEEDS to be more common IF people actually wants them to join a team. I've seen a fair enough of 80+ 90+ or even 100+ dungeoneers who's never had a chance of getting a hood. The worst part is that players who cannot even kill night spiders leeches the hood

killed by another teammate which encourages a lot of unfriendly competition and basically ruins the whole team. Leeching is an issue to basically

any desirable slayer drops and the hood is obviously no different. At 87 dungeoneering, I have yet to see a gold precision bracelet, doomcore staff, blood neck, etc. I would never call any slayer drops common or inevitable.

[Star_Fox]

Double post. Sorry.

[Sir_Kurity]

I think it's more of an issue of armor being underrepresented. Monsters in Daemonheim practically hit through armor as if it wasn't there.

 

Its also an issue of killing monsters not actually mattering.

 

Theres hardly any motivation to kill monsters, it gives only slightly more XP but takes alot longer.

[Quyneax]

You don't have to nerf the hood to bring more diversity, just add two bind slots (level 80 and 90 or so, quite accesable). Of course that would make dg too easy, but it also works. You would see that some people go for hood + plate + 2h + legs, other people go for hood + 2h + hhb + blood neck, some go for sag body, others prefer celestial staff with rapier, csb and blood neck (and hood). Of course they may not be able to obtain all slayer drops, but t11 gear is easy enough to come by (if you got a few friends to do some larges).

[la la la]

If Jagex gets rid of the hood, everyone will bind the plate, and people will be scoffed at for wearing the leatherbody or robe top (which is pointless), and you're back to the same problem. One of the strengths of having 3 binds is that you can get the benefits of the hood and of armour, if you so choose.

[ho3f3l]

i think chaotic rapier is to good for slayer and therefore, takes an option away for variety for weapon choice.

i think pack yak is to good as a bob if you can use, and then takes options away from natural choice of bob

i think dragon pickaxe is better than all....

i think ...

i...

[No_99_Melee]

You make too many topics Clifford...

 

Anyways, just because it is the most usefull item in dungeoneering and is required to join high ranked teams doesn't mean it should be nerfed. There is always going to be the best way of doing things. Once you nerf the hood teams will require a different setup in order to join them based on what the best/most efficient set up is after the hood is nerfed. It's like saying that because the korasi is so overpowered in pvp it should be nerfed, but then once it's nerfed the dragon claws are too powerfull, then you have to nerf them too, then the ags spec gets nerfed and it's a vicious cycle of nerfing. I once had a teacher named Mr.Nerf and he was pretty cool. Also:

 

[Aribiterspar]

if you got that much extra food where its overpiling all the time your not doing enough to help your team

[aspeeder]

in that case, we should reduce the stats of chaotic rapier, abyssal whip, all defenders, amulet of fury, all barrows armor, all spirit shields, and arcane stream necklace. they are outliers and must be nerfed because they are superior to dragon scimitar, rune scimitar, dragon square shield, amulet of power, dragon armor, dragonfire shield, and third age mage amulet.

 

Then it's not an outlier.

I believe what bladewing is saying is:

chaotic rapier/whip are outliers to d scim

defenders are outliers to dfs

barrows armor is an outlier to dragon armor

etc.

 

In which case each is only one outlier in a certain field, and thus should be nerfed under your logic. Either way I agree with blade and the others here that even if the hood is nerfed a new best bind set will be mandated and everyone will still be the same. You're not going to change high level conformity with a single update/nerf, it's an underlying mindset concerned with efficiency that I for one have no problems with.