TheAncient Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Please don't tell me I'm making a typo now... Zuriel's robes with a farseer kiteshield is 40% Melee absorption. Let's say that, without any damage soaking, I get hit for 800 from an AGS special attack. 800-200=600 so I will soak 40% of 600, which is 240. So instead of 800 damage, I will get hit for 560. That's an overall damage reduction of 30%?! O.O No: that max hit is reduced 30%, but your OVERALL reduction is much more complicated to calculate. you have to average the hit reduction for all possible hits you could receive to find the OVERALL reduction. this calculation is shown in the other thread your overall reduction will be somewhere around 10% probably. Ever wanted to find street prices of RS items? Check out the SPOLI Index Nex Drops: Pernix Cowl, Pernix Chaps, Torva Helm, Torva Platebody, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Mask, Torva Legs, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Body, Torva Platelegs, Torva Platelegs, Virtus Robe Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeg3 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) Question:We had pretty much agreed, that Dung shield was bad before the update...Can you tell me what on earth has changed?? Dung shileds are still bad.butChaotic kiteshield has been better than DFS against ranged even before teh update, and its still better than obby - so yet again, nothing changed.right? Edited December 14, 2010 by Y_Guy Censor evasion removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncient Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Question:We had pretty much agreed, that Dung shield was bad before the update...Can you tell me what on earth has changed?? Dung shileds are still bad.butChaotic kiteshield has been better than DFS against ranged even before teh update, and its still better than obby - so yet again, nothing changed.right? major change is that obby shields are comparable to DFS against ranged that hits ~500 Ever wanted to find street prices of RS items? Check out the SPOLI Index Nex Drops: Pernix Cowl, Pernix Chaps, Torva Helm, Torva Platebody, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Mask, Torva Legs, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Body, Torva Platelegs, Torva Platelegs, Virtus Robe Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeg3 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Question:We had pretty much agreed, that Dung shield was sht before the update...Can you tell me what on earth has changed?? Dung shileds are still bad.butChaotic kiteshield has been better than DFS against ranged even before teh update, and its still better than obby - so yet again, nothing changed.right? major change is that obby shields are comparable to DFS against ranged that hits ~500I ment concerning Dung shields alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinII Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncient Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Question:We had pretty much agreed, that Dung shield was sht before the update...Can you tell me what on earth has changed?? Dung shileds are still bad.butChaotic kiteshield has been better than DFS against ranged even before teh update, and its still better than obby - so yet again, nothing changed.right? major change is that obby shields are comparable to DFS against ranged that hits ~500I ment concerning Dung shields alone. dg shield stats haven't changed at all. lol. dg shields arent "sht". cks is only like ~10% worse than ely vs ranged; fks is a worse version of arc (but still very good for mages); eeks is a worse version of spec (but still very good anti-mage) Ever wanted to find street prices of RS items? Check out the SPOLI Index Nex Drops: Pernix Cowl, Pernix Chaps, Torva Helm, Torva Platebody, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Mask, Torva Legs, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Body, Torva Platelegs, Torva Platelegs, Virtus Robe Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 No soak on void, also overall small numbers and few items you'd actually use are affected, as far as I can see. Some things changed (obsidian shield vs. dfs for example) but overall the same gear is the best, I guess. Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthensley Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Please don't tell me I'm making a typo now... Zuriel's robes with a farseer kiteshield is 40% Melee absorption. Let's say that, without any damage soaking, I get hit for 800 from an AGS special attack. 800-200=600 so I will soak 40% of 600, which is 240. So instead of 800 damage, I will get hit for 560. That's an overall damage reduction of 30%?! O.O No: that max hit is reduced 30%, but your OVERALL reduction is much more complicated to calculate. you have to average the hit reduction for all possible hits you could receive to find the OVERALL reduction. this calculation is shown in the other thread your overall reduction will be somewhere around 10% probably. If that was the only hit he took, then his OVERALL reduction would have been 30% (assuming his math is correct). Semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdotzip Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Do we know yet if damage soak is calculated first, or after other factors, like overhead, SOL spec, divine, etc? my youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinII Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 For all I know the damage soaking completely ignores the SoL special effect. Just tried it out at DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peronix Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield? I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinII Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield? I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though. No I'm talking about the arcane spirit shield. The arcane spirit shield gives +3 more magic attack, +18 more crush defence, +12 more range defence and +3 prayer bonus than the farseer kiteshield so most people thought the arcane spirit shield was better. But now that the arcane spirit shield gives no damage soak, do you think it will be better than the farseer kiteshield, which gives +14% melee absorbtion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdotzip Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I noticed in crowded areas, like w18 edge, if there's too many damage splats, they don't appear. I don't know if you always see yours or not, but I couldn't see a lot of the damage happening in fights around me. That hopefully will be addressed my youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdotzip Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I noticed in crowded areas, like w18 edge, if there's too many damage splats, they don't appear. I don't know if you always see yours or not, but I couldn't see a lot of the damage happening in fights around me. That hopefully will be addressed Scratch that, I guess nothing appears if you hit zero. Everything makes more sense now lol my youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I noticed in crowded areas, like w18 edge, if there's too many damage splats, they don't appear. I don't know if you always see yours or not, but I couldn't see a lot of the damage happening in fights around me. That hopefully will be addressed Scratch that, I guess nothing appears if you hit zero. Everything makes more sense now lol There's a little icon that pops up, but no letters or numbers it seems. :P Also, for those who like numbers but cba calculating out how much damage x % soak does: [hide]Using a formula Jagex posted on the forum in regards to how the Dungeoneering shields worked, it shows what you would get hit if you had that amount of soak. [/hide] ........::::: Rainy's YouTube Channel - Rainy's Twitter - Rainy's Facebook - Rainy's DeviantArt - Rainy's Tumblr - Rainy's Tip.It Profile :::::......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajutze Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Scratch that, I guess nothing appears if you hit zero.When I hit 0 a blue shield...ish thing appears ... or it shows two different things for hitting 0 and not hitting at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdotzip Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 No, when others are fighting around you, nothing appears to YOU if they hit zero. my youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncient Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield? I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though. No I'm talking about the arcane spirit shield. The arcane spirit shield gives +3 more magic attack, +18 more crush defence, +12 more range defence and +3 prayer bonus than the farseer kiteshield so most people thought the arcane spirit shield was better. But now that the arcane spirit shield gives no damage soak, do you think it will be better than the farseer kiteshield, which gives +14% melee absorbtion. It's not going to get worse if both stats are exactly the same as beforeArc is overall a better shield both before and after the update. The update could only have made arc even better. If that was the only hit he took, then his OVERALL reduction would have been 30% (assuming his math is correct). Semantics. Durr because all combat only consists of your opponent hitting once at 800 durr. overall damage reduction is the value you should care about in 90%+ of situations. Ever wanted to find street prices of RS items? Check out the SPOLI Index Nex Drops: Pernix Cowl, Pernix Chaps, Torva Helm, Torva Platebody, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Mask, Torva Legs, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Body, Torva Platelegs, Torva Platelegs, Virtus Robe Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherBrainII Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield? I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though. No I'm talking about the arcane spirit shield. The arcane spirit shield gives +3 more magic attack, +18 more crush defence, +12 more range defence and +3 prayer bonus than the farseer kiteshield so most people thought the arcane spirit shield was better. But now that the arcane spirit shield gives no damage soak, do you think it will be better than the farseer kiteshield, which gives +14% melee absorbtion. In essence, neither shield has changed -- it's just that around them that has. Unless the presence of magic soaking for opponents makes a difference, nothing will have changed, so the arcane will still be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulli23 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Also an amazing discovery I made during quests: all those both monster who "attack with XX, but you can only partially pray" simply have half (? or some other percentage) of their damage done in another stat. The last boss of do no evil for example used range + magic combo. This is usefull for picking outfits (tip it guide says it uses only magic, which made it seem mage pray + mage armour is best - however as I experienced myself and no actually saw best would be to have anti range armour with mage pray). First they came to fishingand I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing Then they came to the yewsand I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews Then they came for the oresand I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonewall337 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 So lets see, i have +379 range defense, 20% range soak over 200, and an additional 30% damage soak from divine, and since I normally tanked supreme anyways, this is going to make DKS OMFG. At least, I hope. [hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpx Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 In essence, neither shield has changed -- it's just that around them that has. Unless the presence of magic soaking for opponents makes a difference, nothing will have changed, so the arcane will still be better.Actually, this update made arcane slightly better as you'll have a higher base soak the damage you receive will be already lowered by other armors, thus making the soak on farseer kite less significant. Other than that, arcane isn't frequently used in situations where you get damaged by alot of 200+ hits, so the defense rarely matters, and where you do get hit for 200+, ely or divine are better than farseer/arcane. First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazhar Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 hmm.. 3a kite vs dfs, one of you statistical nubs figure it out@edit: nvm can't be, cks has better stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 So lets see, i have +379 range defense, 20% range soak over 200, and an additional 30% damage soak from divine, and since I normally tanked supreme anyways, this is going to make DKS OMFG. At least, I hope. 20% soak after divine won't do anything (well reduce the max from ~245 to ~235). Before divine, it'd reduce the max to 224. Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncient Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 So lets see, i have +379 range defense, 20% range soak over 200, and an additional 30% damage soak from divine, and since I normally tanked supreme anyways, this is going to make DKS OMFG. At least, I hope. sorry to burst your bubble, but sup's max hit (300ish?) is so low that soaking barely makes an overall difference :( i thought about this too haha Ever wanted to find street prices of RS items? Check out the SPOLI Index Nex Drops: Pernix Cowl, Pernix Chaps, Torva Helm, Torva Platebody, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Mask, Torva Legs, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Body, Torva Platelegs, Torva Platelegs, Virtus Robe Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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