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14-Dec-2010 - Damage Soaking and New Hitsplats


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#81
TheAncient
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Question:
We had pretty much agreed, that Dung shield was sht before the update...
Can you tell me what on earth has changed??


Dung shileds are still bad.
but
Chaotic kiteshield has been better than DFS against ranged even before teh update, and its still better than obby - so yet again, nothing changed.
right?


major change is that obby shields are comparable to DFS against ranged that hits ~500

I ment concerning Dung shields alone.


dg shield stats haven't changed at all. lol.

dg shields arent "sht". cks is only like ~10% worse than ely vs ranged; fks is a worse version of arc (but still very good for mages); eeks is a worse version of spec (but still very good anti-mage)
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#82
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No soak on void, also overall small numbers and few items you'd actually use are affected, as far as I can see. Some things changed (obsidian shield vs. dfs for example) but overall the same gear is the best, I guess.
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#83
rthensley
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Please don't tell me I'm making a typo now...

Zuriel's robes with a farseer kiteshield is 40% Melee absorption. Let's say that, without any damage soaking, I get hit for 800 from an AGS special attack. 800-200=600 so I will soak 40% of 600, which is 240. So instead of 800 damage, I will get hit for 560. That's an overall damage reduction of 30%?! O.O


No:

that max hit is reduced 30%, but your OVERALL reduction is much more complicated to calculate. you have to average the hit reduction for all possible hits you could receive to find the OVERALL reduction.

this calculation is shown in the other thread

your overall reduction will be somewhere around 10% probably.




If that was the only hit he took, then his OVERALL reduction would have been 30% (assuming his math is correct).

Semantics.
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#84
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Do we know yet if damage soak is calculated first, or after other factors, like overhead, SOL spec, divine, etc?



#85
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For all I know the damage soaking completely ignores the SoL special effect. Just tried it out at DA.

#86
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The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield?


I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though.

#87
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The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield?


I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though.


No I'm talking about the arcane spirit shield. The arcane spirit shield gives +3 more magic attack, +18 more crush defence, +12 more range defence and +3 prayer bonus than the farseer kiteshield so most people thought the arcane spirit shield was better. But now that the arcane spirit shield gives no damage soak, do you think it will be better than the farseer kiteshield, which gives +14% melee absorbtion.

#88
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I noticed in crowded areas, like w18 edge, if there's too many damage splats, they don't appear. I don't know if you always see yours or not, but I couldn't see a lot of the damage happening in fights around me. That hopefully will be addressed

#89
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I noticed in crowded areas, like w18 edge, if there's too many damage splats, they don't appear. I don't know if you always see yours or not, but I couldn't see a lot of the damage happening in fights around me. That hopefully will be addressed




Scratch that, I guess nothing appears if you hit zero.


Everything makes more sense now lol

#90
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I noticed in crowded areas, like w18 edge, if there's too many damage splats, they don't appear. I don't know if you always see yours or not, but I couldn't see a lot of the damage happening in fights around me. That hopefully will be addressed




Scratch that, I guess nothing appears if you hit zero.


Everything makes more sense now lol


There's a little icon that pops up, but no letters or numbers it seems. :P

Also, for those who like numbers but cba calculating out how much damage x % soak does:



#91
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Scratch that, I guess nothing appears if you hit zero.

When I hit 0 a blue shield...ish thing appears ... or it shows two different things for hitting 0 and not hitting at all.

#92
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No, when others are fighting around you, nothing appears to YOU if they hit zero.

#93
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The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield?


I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though.


No I'm talking about the arcane spirit shield. The arcane spirit shield gives +3 more magic attack, +18 more crush defence, +12 more range defence and +3 prayer bonus than the farseer kiteshield so most people thought the arcane spirit shield was better. But now that the arcane spirit shield gives no damage soak, do you think it will be better than the farseer kiteshield, which gives +14% melee absorbtion.


It's not going to get worse if both stats are exactly the same as before
Arc is overall a better shield both before and after the update. The update could only have made arc even better.

If that was the only hit he took, then his OVERALL reduction would have been 30% (assuming his math is correct).

Semantics.


Durr because all combat only consists of your opponent hitting once at 800 durr. overall damage reduction is the value you should care about in 90%+ of situations.
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#94
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The arcane spirit shield gives no damage soaking. Does this make the farseer kiteshield overall better than the arcane spirit shield?


I think you mean spectral? Arcane is for mage offense + defense anyway. Neither mage book, or tome of frost have soak either. Weather farseer is better than spectral is up for debate though.


No I'm talking about the arcane spirit shield. The arcane spirit shield gives +3 more magic attack, +18 more crush defence, +12 more range defence and +3 prayer bonus than the farseer kiteshield so most people thought the arcane spirit shield was better. But now that the arcane spirit shield gives no damage soak, do you think it will be better than the farseer kiteshield, which gives +14% melee absorbtion.


In essence, neither shield has changed -- it's just that around them that has. Unless the presence of magic soaking for opponents makes a difference, nothing will have changed, so the arcane will still be better.

#95
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Also an amazing discovery I made during quests: all those both monster who "attack with XX, but you can only partially pray" simply have half (? or some other percentage) of their damage done in another stat. The last boss of do no evil for example used range + magic combo.

This is usefull for picking outfits (tip it guide says it uses only magic, which made it seem mage pray + mage armour is best - however as I experienced myself and no actually saw best would be to have anti range armour with mage pray).

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#96
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So lets see, i have +379 range defense, 20% range soak over 200, and an additional 30% damage soak from divine, and since I normally tanked supreme anyways, this is going to make DKS OMFG. At least, I hope.

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#97
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In essence, neither shield has changed -- it's just that around them that has. Unless the presence of magic soaking for opponents makes a difference, nothing will have changed, so the arcane will still be better.

Actually, this update made arcane slightly better as you'll have a higher base soak the damage you receive will be already lowered by other armors, thus making the soak on farseer kite less significant. Other than that, arcane isn't frequently used in situations where you get damaged by alot of 200+ hits, so the defense rarely matters, and where you do get hit for 200+, ely or divine are better than farseer/arcane.

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#98
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hmm.. 3a kite vs dfs, one of you statistical nubs figure it out@
edit: nvm can't be, cks has better stats

#99
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So lets see, i have +379 range defense, 20% range soak over 200, and an additional 30% damage soak from divine, and since I normally tanked supreme anyways, this is going to make DKS OMFG. At least, I hope.


20% soak after divine won't do anything (well reduce the max from ~245 to ~235). Before divine, it'd reduce the max to 224.
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#100
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So lets see, i have +379 range defense, 20% range soak over 200, and an additional 30% damage soak from divine, and since I normally tanked supreme anyways, this is going to make DKS OMFG. At least, I hope.


sorry to burst your bubble, but sup's max hit (300ish?) is so low that soaking barely makes an overall difference :(

i thought about this too haha
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