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Wilderness and free trade vote! - Now Closed

  

576 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Jagex reintroduce free trade and the old Wilderness?

    • Yes.
      351
    • No.
      169
    • Indifferent ...
      56


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These days if you want to be on top you have to have hundreds of mills to invest in pvp on things like divine, 95 prayer etc. Extremes would just set back an average account preparing to be an effective pking account, by another couple of hundred mill.

I was responding to this.

 

Yes, they need to fix HP so that we aren't so vulnerable, but that's a poor excuse for singling out one of several high level combat advantages and taking it out of PvP, leaving all the others.

 

No. Even if extremes/overloads were tradeable they still should be banned from pvp. Considering how little defense/hp people have compared to the boost you get, pvp would be completely broken. Again.

 

And why the hell should anyone have to spend 100M+ on a non combat skill to pk? If herblore reflected your cb level like prayer it would be fine, but if extremes/ovl were allowed the best pkers would simply become those who were the riches players and could afford 92+ herb. Obviously more money gives you an advantage, but the money you spend on things that don't boost your CB level can always be lost. The ability to hit higher, tank more hits, and restore your spec (much like all the CB skills combined) can't.

 

Dung is completely different. Dung obviously gives you an advantage, but its literally a one time advantage until you lose your chaotic. Either that or it limits other gear you can bring if you don't want to risk it. There are drawbacks and risks involved with chaotic. However, you can make as many pots as you want in like a minute of simply buying the ingredients and the costs are minimal for making the pots. Dung rewards are items. Herblore reward is a passive ability to gain a HUGE advantage (much more than a rapier/maul) over opponents and would turn herblore into a skill required for combat because it's a passive effect WITH NO DRAWBACKS OR RISKS, unlike dung which has huge risks to using it.

 

Handcannon and other expensive items can all be lost. Herblore grants you a passive ability like being able to hit higher/tank more hits, much like a CB skill which is why you can't compare it to anything else other than combat. No other non-cb skill would give you as distinct as an advantage as overloads/extremes in a fight. Even firemaking for handcannon doesn't increase the power or accuracy, it just lowers the cost of using it.

 

(The dung prayers are about the only thing similar, but the extra benefits pale in comparison to the boosts extremes/overloads get and the prayer levels required are added to your CB level anyway)

 

RPG's obviously involve giving advantages to people with higher stats. But combat and non cb skill should remain separated the way they are. You can get an advantage in pvm. The lines aren't crossed right now, but allowing ovl/extermes are going to blur it.

 

Combat wouldnt be broken now if the defense skill raised your mitigation instead of chance to dodge.

 

Imagine 99 defense as a passive 50% damage reduction, that would make pvp fights much less annoying then whoever spec's high first, and would solve the "problem" of pures. I put problem in " " because people often complain about pures but it isnt really something I personally see as needing to be fixed.

 

Right now 99 defense means you have a passive x% to dodge an attack, while at 1 defense you have a much smaller passive dodge rate. Dodge is way to RNG based to be worthwhile, for pvp. Someone can 2 shot you at 99 defense as they can with 1 defense. Just the odds go down slightly at 99 because they are more likely to miss.

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And why the hell should anyone have to spend 100M+ on a non combat skill to pk?

You can pk even with a bronze dagger, winning is another thing. And in every reality the winner is the one with the most money, skill and luck (in different ratios, but money is always the most important factor)

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And why the hell should anyone have to spend 100M+ on a non combat skill to pk?

You can pk even with a bronze dagger, winning is another thing. And in every reality the winner is the one with the most money, skill and luck (in different ratios, but money is always the most important factor)

 

You can always lose that 30m you spend on claws though. You don't lose the 120M you spend on herblore and its basically like you spent money on a CB stat for a passive ability, only it doesn't affect your cb level. A non CB stat is directly affecting combat. Other skills like smithing and cooking don't, because you can always buy those items directly without wasting 120m or time, and other things like dung have huge risks and drawbacks. Much like buying expensive gear. And dung doesn't even cost money.

 

What skills are the only things that are suppose to give you the untradebale and passive ability to hit higher and tank more hits? Combat skills. Not herblore.

 

Money obviously matters. But it never mattered to the point where someone with more money at equal CB stats would always be guaranteed forever to be a stronger fighter as if he was higher CB level no matter if he died or not, simply because of one non cb stat. People with 99 fletch aren't stronger than people who have 1 fletch, if you want consistency than herblore shouldn't be any different.

 

The same reason you can't fight people outside your CB level in the wild is the same reason you shouldn't fight someone who functionally is higher CB than you.

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Money obviously matters. But it never mattered to the point where someone with more money at equal CB stats would always be guaranteed forever to be a stronger fighter as if he was higher CB level.

 

Gear does that.

 

Regardless, if Jagex made the pots tradable, this entire argument would be mute. Not as much money may be invested in other things, but every single stat used in essential quests can count for this, because you're not going to get Barrows gloves, or that sword with the insane spec that I've forgotten the name of, or the things you need to do to tank or go complete agro, with anything less then any and all time and money you invest in what's required. The only difference is cost with Herblore. If you're (the community) going to cry about it, stay out of the wild or find a way to get the money. You managed Turmoil. You can manage this.

 

My 0.02.


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Wow is that some poor low herblore level raging I hear?


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The same reason you can't fight people outside your CB level in the wild is the same reason you shouldn't fight someone who functionally is higher CB than you.

 

By that reasoning pures shouldn't exist. Isn't the whole point of a pure to keep ones combat level artificially low?


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It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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Wow is that some poor low herblore level raging I hear?

 

I dont think its much about extremes/overloads as it is that you can hit someone for 80% of their hp at 99 hp and defense. In very few games is this the case (unless you have a super weapon that only .1% of players might have).

 

Damage soaking was a good start but the bonuses are too miniscule to fix the problem. In fact the reason why Jagex took out extremes/overloads in the first place is because they calculated that with the right bonuses + the pots you could actually 1 shot a 138 with max health, given a bit of luck.

 

This is clearly a problem especially for the long run as people keep demanding bigger and badder weapons and armor in the future. Jagex can either increase damage soaking (or edit the whole defense skill to do this so it is actually useful as I said before) or add more major damage soaking armor (like divine shields) or add armor that massively increases lifepoints.

 

Rumor is Jagex has the increase Lifepoint armor, with the behind the frozen door boss.

 

 

Calling players poor noobs if they dont have the levels or might be complaining isnt really adressing the problem, the problem really lies with the brokenness of pvp in general, and the ability to 2 shot someone even if they have max stats.

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Wow is that some poor low herblore level raging I hear?

 

I dont think its much about extremes/overloads as it is that you can hit someone for 80% of their hp at 99 hp and defense. In very few games is this the case (unless you have a super weapon that only .1% of players might have).

 

Damage soaking was a good start but the bonuses are too miniscule to fix the problem. In fact the reason why Jagex took out extremes/overloads in the first place is because they calculated that with the right bonuses + the pots you could actually 1 shot a 138 with max health, given a bit of luck.

 

This is clearly a problem especially for the long run as people keep demanding bigger and badder weapons and armor in the future. Jagex can either increase damage soaking (or edit the whole defense skill to do this so it is actually useful as I said before) or add more major damage soaking armor (like divine shields) or add armor that massively increases lifepoints.

 

Rumor is Jagex has the increase Lifepoint armor, with the behind the frozen door boss.

 

 

Calling players poor noobs if they dont have the levels or might be complaining isnt really adressing the problem, the problem really lies with the brokenness of pvp in general, and the ability to 2 shot someone even if they have max stats.

Then take out dungeoneering rewards, barrows gloves, Korasi's sword, most dragon weapons (the ones with quest requirements), handcannons, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of.

 

The point is that it's inconsistent. They need to fix combat, not just turn PvP into more of a stupid ugly mess than it already is by randomly cherry picking what can and cannot be used there.


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Wow is that some poor low herblore level raging I hear?

 

I dont think its much about extremes/overloads as it is that you can hit someone for 80% of their hp at 99 hp and defense. In very few games is this the case (unless you have a super weapon that only .1% of players might have).

 

Damage soaking was a good start but the bonuses are too miniscule to fix the problem. In fact the reason why Jagex took out extremes/overloads in the first place is because they calculated that with the right bonuses + the pots you could actually 1 shot a 138 with max health, given a bit of luck.

 

This is clearly a problem especially for the long run as people keep demanding bigger and badder weapons and armor in the future. Jagex can either increase damage soaking (or edit the whole defense skill to do this so it is actually useful as I said before) or add more major damage soaking armor (like divine shields) or add armor that massively increases lifepoints.

 

Rumor is Jagex has the increase Lifepoint armor, with the behind the frozen door boss.

 

 

Calling players poor noobs if they dont have the levels or might be complaining isnt really adressing the problem, the problem really lies with the brokenness of pvp in general, and the ability to 2 shot someone even if they have max stats.

 

Overall, I agree with you. I'd love to see overloads and extremes in PVP, but I don't like the idea of 138's being one-hit. We need level 80 armor with decent soak. I agree that defense should have an inherent soak ability.

 

PVP would be much more interesting/entertaining if it was no holds barred.


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Unless overloads doesn't have the ability to automatically restore your levels within the wilderness, I still find it a silly idea. It would be who could jug the brews the fastest, and jugging brews doesn't prevent your character from continuing to attack

 

Extremes should be allowed, but also introducing some good soaking armours (maybe enhance the PvP stuff, like Vesta)

 

Overall, this is the juiciest update since 07

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They need to hurry the [bleep] up with the smithing update... im sure they have something cool planned.

 

And on topic... just make herb potions tradeable and be done with it...


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That was the most epic multi-post of all time.

 

I bet the smithing update was just dungeoneering lol. Just how that was supposed to be our fix of new bosses...

 

And I really do hope the extreme potions are allowed. Just annoying to selectively limit which skills can give you an advantage and which cannot.

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We need higher soaking armor and soak itself was designed very poorly.

 

You absorb UP TO your percentage of soaking, from damage that completely ignores the first 200 you are hit for. So instead of being hit for a 500 with 25% absorb and reducing that to a 375, it ignores the first 200 damage in that calculation and so the maximum amount you'd absorb is 75, leaving to to still eat a 425.


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We need higher soaking armor and soak itself was designed very poorly.

 

You absorb UP TO your percentage of soaking, from damage that completely ignores the first 200 you are hit for. So instead of being hit for a 500 with 25% absorb and reducing that to a 375, it ignores the first 200 damage in that calculation and so the maximum amount you'd absorb is 75, leaving to to still eat a 425.

 

While it needs improvement, Jagex choosing to make soaking 200+ only was something they did right. Had they made it a full % of any hit over 200, Monster Hunting would be Extremely effected making almost any boss a joke. The only boss the 200+ update really effects is Corp & Zammy.

 

What they need to fix is adding a higher tier absorption rate. Armors that can absorb 40-50% of damage over 500, 60% over 600, ect..

 

By doing that, coupled with LP armor, you make high hitting weapons capped at around 600-700 damage without effecting to much of NPC combat.

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Money obviously matters. But it never mattered to the point where someone with more money at equal CB stats would always be guaranteed forever to be a stronger fighter as if he was higher CB level.

 

Gear does that.

 

Regardless, if Jagex made the pots tradable, this entire argument would be mute. Not as much money may be invested in other things, but every single stat used in essential quests can count for this, because you're not going to get Barrows gloves, or that sword with the insane spec that I've forgotten the name of, or the things you need to do to tank or go complete agro, with anything less then any and all time and money you invest in what's required. The only difference is cost with Herblore. If you're (the community) going to cry about it, stay out of the wild or find a way to get the money. You managed Turmoil. You can manage this.

 

My 0.02.

 

No, the difference is the fact that you can lose korsai or whatever gear/dung/quest rewards you buy. Herblore is functioning as a passive ability, much like combat stats are, and you don't lose the ability to hit high with herblore while you lose the ability to ko if you lose claws.

 

Seriously, allowing your herblore level to affect combat is like saying people with 99 fletch should be able to hit higher and more accurate than someone with 1 fletch, or someone with 99 cooking should be able to get their food to heal 500 lp in one bite. Non combat skills probably shouldn't reflect cb. Or if you want it that way, all noncombat skills at all levels should give untradeable passive abilities like herblore does.

 

Even if I had the ability the make ovl/extremes i would still think its asinine for them to be allowed, most people who want them are just people who can make them and can't pk effectively normally.

 

By that reasoning pures shouldn't exist. Isn't the whole point of a pure to keep ones combat level artificially low?

 

And I'm sure most people agree that the CB system is broken and jagex also feels that pures are an abomination of the CB system. But even that argument doesn't hold much water - there are still drawbacks to keeping low defense to artificially keep your cb level low, there are literally no drawbacks to herblore, not even raising your CB level.

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Wow is that some poor low herblore level raging I hear?

 

I dont think its much about extremes/overloads as it is that you can hit someone for 80% of their hp at 99 hp and defense. In very few games is this the case (unless you have a super weapon that only .1% of players might have).

 

Damage soaking was a good start but the bonuses are too miniscule to fix the problem. In fact the reason why Jagex took out extremes/overloads in the first place is because they calculated that with the right bonuses + the pots you could actually 1 shot a 138 with max health, given a bit of luck.

 

This is clearly a problem especially for the long run as people keep demanding bigger and badder weapons and armor in the future. Jagex can either increase damage soaking (or edit the whole defense skill to do this so it is actually useful as I said before) or add more major damage soaking armor (like divine shields) or add armor that massively increases lifepoints.

 

Rumor is Jagex has the increase Lifepoint armor, with the behind the frozen door boss.

 

 

Calling players poor noobs if they dont have the levels or might be complaining isnt really adressing the problem, the problem really lies with the brokenness of pvp in general, and the ability to 2 shot someone even if they have max stats.

Then take out dungeoneering rewards, barrows gloves, Korasi's sword, most dragon weapons (the ones with quest requirements), handcannons, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of.

 

The point is that it's inconsistent. They need to fix combat, not just turn PvP into more of a stupid ugly mess than it already is by randomly cherry picking what can and cannot be used there.

 

You just ignored everything I just said. Lrn2read or stfu.

 

That post wasnt about herblore it was about how ridiculously high we hit in relation to how much health we have :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

I said exactly that, they need to fix combat before allowing herblore back. Its not about skills having hidden combat bonuses, but the sheer damage people can dish out in relation to ones health. Jagex took out extremes/overloads from pvp originally because they said you could 1 shot a 138 who has max health given a little luck and the right bonuses. It would be extremely irresponsible for Jagex to allow them back in (especially with even better weapons added since they were originally taken out from pvp).

 

They need to add more survivability otherwise pvp really comes down to who attacks and veng's first.

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Yeah, uh, I can make extreme pots on my pure (I bought herblore before I quit), and I don't really think they should be allowed after reading about them.

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Torva armor should've been easily obtainable, with a more powerful-harder-to-get version in my opinion.

 

I always thought Jagex should've held onto extremes, until there were several noncombat stats that provided a comparable boost (dg is a good example of this). If there were several noncombat stats that were allowed, it would balance a bit more than just herblore and duneoneering being the biggest ones, or discount the whole concept entirely.

 

Jagex needed to go all-in, or choose to never allow skiller stats to give an advantage in combat. Having one foot half-in and allowing just a few stats to give bonuses just doesn't work.

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I'm still of the opinion Herblore can easily be modified so that letting it add to the combat level is a fair situation. Again, just create 20 or so untradable combat potions spread throughout herblore to just the skill adding to combat. Then, just make a rule like summoning where not having a vial of any sort in your inventory lets herblore not affect your combat level.

 

While they're at it, modify prayer to remove "protect from" but make it so that defense prayers allow for damage soaking. The protect prayers are great for PvM but they're still way overpowered for PvP. However, having a prayer that lowers the limit of damage soak to 19 or 17 or 15 while others can boost defense and the damage soak makes for more versatile prayer use.

 

Ultimately, we can have a system where anyone can 1 hit an 99 hp if that moron has no prayer, defense, summoning or herblore of some sort protecting him. Get a guy with 99 in the combat support skills in addition to using the items those skills allow and he becomes a hard person to kill in one shot depending on his combat stance.


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Why not just tweak it to where OVL/EXT act like their lower equivalents when the player using them is in combat with another player?

So those 125/125/125/122/106 become what, 118/118/118/112/104. Sure, they still stay boosted all the way for the five-minute period and only take up one inventory space, but it's still a fair compromise.

 

If the Overloading player were fighting, say, the Chaos Elemental, their stats would be normal Overload grade. If they attack another player, their stats will lower to the above. However, if they retaliate, their stats will remain Overload grade.

I feel this is very fair. This allows some players a kind of "immunity" from being attacked randomly by PKers, if JaGEx does indeed intend for the Wilderness to return to all worlds.

Some will say, "But those who enjoyed PKing prior to the changes had no choice in the matter!" Yes, this is true. But if you were to deny people the small amenity proposed above based entirely on that rationale, you are nothing but a vindictive [wagon].


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Or they could just keep the way it is now. Ovls/Ext were added after 07.

 

Do you guys really think that if Ovl/ext were added before Dec 07, people wouldn't rage and rant thus making Jagex ban them?

 

Gavati's suggestion sounds reasonable imo.


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So how about the dungeoneering rewards? Just like herblore an item you can get after getting a high lvl in a skill that does not affect combat....directly.

 

Wonder what you guys think about that.


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So how about the dungeoneering rewards? Just like herblore an item you can get after getting a high lvl in a skill that does not affect combat....directly.

 

Wonder what you guys think about that.

 

This. But for some reason, kiddies on the forums keep arguing against me saying that chaotics having combat requirements justify it. In that case, make extremes require 80 combats :rolleyes:

 

As others have said, defense needs to be fixed. Like, actually fixed, not some poor excuse of a fix like they just came out with which does almost nothing against dragon claws. But we don't need items being arbitrarily restricted from the wilderness.

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Why not just tweak it to where OVL/EXT act like their lower equivalents when the player using them is in combat with another player?

So those 125/125/125/122/106 become what, 118/118/118/112/104. Sure, they still stay boosted all the way for the five-minute period and only take up one inventory space, but it's still a fair compromise.

 

If the Overloading player were fighting, say, the Chaos Elemental, their stats would be normal Overload grade. If they attack another player, their stats will lower to the above. However, if they retaliate, their stats will remain Overload grade.

I feel this is very fair. This allows some players a kind of "immunity" from being attacked randomly by PKers, if JaGEx does indeed intend for the Wilderness to return to all worlds.

Some will say, "But those who enjoyed PKing prior to the changes had no choice in the matter!" Yes, this is true. But if you were to deny people the small amenity proposed above based entirely on that rationale, you are nothing but a vindictive [wagon].

 

Youre a smart guy you should get this idea to jagex. Great thinking bro :thumbsup:


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But uh to get back on topic... i thought i had clicked on the (Should Overloads/Extremes be allowed in pvp??) thread lol

 

 

Oh my god i cannot wait for free trade to come back :-D


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