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Sylpheed

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The Penguins D&D could be a real problem if the old wilderness makes a comeback. All it takes is one PKer to join the clan chat and leak the information and World 60 Wilderness will be a nonstop massacre. Some of you have pointed out that one should not even be bringing more than 3 valuable stuff to the Wilderness when penguin hunting. However, that poor soul would die every single time a PKer decides to assault him, albeit not loosing anything. As compared to one who risks full gear but is able to defend against PKers and eventually get to the penguin. Even though World60Pengs vs PKers sounds totally cool, you must note that majority of the players hunting penguins are not trained for player killing, so the battle will be no doubtly one sided.

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The Penguins D&D could be a real problem if the old wilderness makes a comeback. All it takes is one PKer to join the clan chat and leak the information and World 60 Wilderness will be a nonstop massacre. Some of you have pointed out that one should not even be bringing more than 3 valuable stuff to the Wilderness when penguin hunting. However, that poor soul would die every single time a PKer decides to assault him, albeit not loosing anything. As compared to one who risks full gear but is able to defend against PKers and eventually get to the penguin. Even though World60Pengs vs PKers sounds totally cool, you must note that majority of the players hunting penguins are not trained for player killing, so the battle will be no doubtly one sided.

 

So people won't be able to look for penguins in the wildy en masse.

 

You know, the way it would have been had revs been as dangerous as PKers.

 

I don't think it'll be much of a problem. If you look at it from a PKer's point of view, World60Pengs is a small group of armed opponents (I expect some of them would bring equipment. Consider also the possible rise of an anti-pker group) with a lot of human shields. If "The armed" have the sense to keep their equipment in their inventory, they and the shields are indistinguishable until you attack them. If you attack a shield (as is likely), you'd be attacked by a player (Or group of players) who would have ample time to pot up AND get first strike. Point being that there would be a serious risk of death for little profit (Remember, even 1-itemers have a chance of losing their items).

 

The only scenario that might be a problem is a 100cb player kicking a 20cb to death for the lulz and a free trip to their spawn.

Castle of Zoltar

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How about we just everything as it is?

 

Maybe it's just me, but from '04-'07 I actually felt worried about going into the wilderness because someone would jump out and ancients me. Unfortunately, I can just waltz from level 1-55 in the wilderness and not face a single danger anymore. I just want a wilderness that is dangerous again.

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99 Cooking - August 20th, 2010

99 Woodcutting - September 3rd, 2010

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...

 

Anyway, the topic at hand, a lot of my friends (myself included) have yet to cast a vote (not like it matters) on whether to say yes or no, not because we hate wildy but because of this; relocating existing content. Here's a list of the majority of the updates that have been released since 2007 that relate to the wilderness. (If I forget any, please remind me)

 

- Spirit of Summer/Summers End - Corporeal Beast

- All Fired Up - Beacon Network - Inferno Adze

- The Temple at Senntisten - Ancient Curses

- Clan Wars

- Wilderness Volcano

- Defender of Varrock - Armoured Zombies

- Stealing Creation

- Chaos Tunnels - Bork

- Penguins

 

...

 

You know, it would honestly be simpler if they just created a new Wilderness area with the old rules, rather than go through the task of stripping the legacy Wilderness area of content. Easier to code, easier to implement, less likely to be full of [bleep]ed up coding oversights...

 

I’m sure someone else said this...

PvP is not for me

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About that amulet, it will vanish once the quest is done and it's immunity will wear off if you attack a player, it only keeps you immune if you don't attack them.

That would still be extremely useful. Once revs disappear, nothing would be a threat if you just had that amulet. Skilling in the wilderness would be easy (brawling gloves, anyone?).

Even in PvP situations, you could never be ambushed and you'd be guaranteed first strike.

So we'd have lots of PKers running around with that amulet on. As a result, nobody would be able to attack anybody. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the wilderness...

Castle of Zoltar

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No one in their right mind would pk if it was a guaranteed money loss case. Or pk if the odds are like 40% loss..

 

The problem with only pker worlds would mean that only pkers go there..

I do see your point, which makes sense, but if I may ask, why would it be guaranteed loss at all? Anyone fighting with a 0% chance of winning would be incompetent. In the case of 60%, you would still make money... Hopefullly.

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No one in their right mind would pk if it was a guaranteed money loss case. Or pk if the odds are like 40% loss..

 

The problem with only pker worlds would mean that only pkers go there..

I do see your point, which makes sense, but if I may ask, why would it be guaranteed loss at all? Anyone fighting with a 0% chance of winning would be incompetent. In the case of 60%, you would still make money... Hopefullly.

 

Very few non-pkers would be on PvP worlds. So Pkers would play an essentially zero-sum game. The losers would stop Pking and move out. With the losers gone, some of the former winners must become losers. They in turn move out. Rinse and repeat. Voila! Abandoned worlds.

 

Fact is, pkers need vulnerable skillers to exist. Every food chain needs a producer class.

Castle of Zoltar

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Personally I think that, considering all the hoops that Jagex jumped through in their efforts to appease the "vast majority" of players who wanted the return of the "old wilderness" I think it is only fitting that, if, as and when they bring back the "old wilderness", Jagex give to those players who'd prefer NOT to have the "old wilderness" back, the SAME consideration.

 

That is, there should be NON-PVP worlds made available so that people can go penguin hunting and do all the other activities in the Wildnerness that exist therein today.

 

This, in my opinion, would be the easiest solution ...

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Personally I think that, considering all the hoops that Jagex jumped through in their efforts to appease the "vast majority" of players who wanted the return of the "old wilderness" I think it is only fitting that, if, as and when they bring back the "old wilderness", Jagex give to those players who'd prefer NOT to have the "old wilderness" back, the SAME consideration.

 

That is, there should be NON-PVP worlds made available so that people can go penguin hunting and do all the other activities in the Wildnerness that exist therein today.

 

This, in my opinion, would be the easiest solution ...

 

You forget, Jagex isn't trying to be fair. They're trying to generate revenue. Since few people will quit over the reintroduction of the old wilderness, Jagex will do whatever tickles their fancy.

Castle of Zoltar

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Personally I think that, considering all the hoops that Jagex jumped through in their efforts to appease the "vast majority" of players who wanted the return of the "old wilderness" I think it is only fitting that, if, as and when they bring back the "old wilderness", Jagex give to those players who'd prefer NOT to have the "old wilderness" back, the SAME consideration.

 

That is, there should be NON-PVP worlds made available so that people can go penguin hunting and do all the other activities in the Wildnerness that exist therein today.

 

This, in my opinion, would be the easiest solution ...

 

You forget, Jagex isn't trying to be fair. They're trying to generate revenue. Since few people will quit over the reintroduction of the old wilderness, Jagex will do whatever tickles their fancy.

 

True dat -- but given their "track record" at coding big updates of game content -- and this would certainly be one of them, I'd think that they'd prefer to take the path of least resistance.

 

Just sayin' ... :unsure:

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Personally I think that, considering all the hoops that Jagex jumped through in their efforts to appease the "vast majority" of players who wanted the return of the "old wilderness" I think it is only fitting that, if, as and when they bring back the "old wilderness", Jagex give to those players who'd prefer NOT to have the "old wilderness" back, the SAME consideration.

 

That is, there should be NON-PVP worlds made available so that people can go penguin hunting and do all the other activities in the Wildnerness that exist therein today.

 

This, in my opinion, would be the easiest solution ...

 

You forget, Jagex isn't trying to be fair. They're trying to generate revenue. Since few people will quit over the reintroduction of the old wilderness, Jagex will do whatever tickles their fancy.

 

True dat -- but given their "track record" at coding big updates of game content -- and this would certainly be one of them, I'd think that they'd prefer to take the path of least resistance.

 

Just sayin' ... :unsure:

 

Good point, but wouldn't we end up having little to no skillers in PvP worlds? That would seriously impair PKing. Not because the majority of PKers prey on skillers but because they prey on those that do.

Castle of Zoltar

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Personally I think that, considering all the hoops that Jagex jumped through in their efforts to appease the "vast majority" of players who wanted the return of the "old wilderness" I think it is only fitting that, if, as and when they bring back the "old wilderness", Jagex give to those players who'd prefer NOT to have the "old wilderness" back, the SAME consideration.

 

That is, there should be NON-PVP worlds made available so that people can go penguin hunting and do all the other activities in the Wildnerness that exist therein today.

 

This, in my opinion, would be the easiest solution ...

 

You forget, Jagex isn't trying to be fair. They're trying to generate revenue. Since few people will quit over the reintroduction of the old wilderness, Jagex will do whatever tickles their fancy.

 

True dat -- but given their "track record" at coding big updates of game content -- and this would certainly be one of them, I'd think that they'd prefer to take the path of least resistance.

 

Just sayin' ... :unsure:

 

Good point, but wouldn't we end up having little to no skillers in PvP worlds? That would seriously impair PKing. Not because the majority of PKers prey on skillers but because they prey on those that do.

 

Well -- that'd be too bad for the so-called "majority" of players who want the "old wilderness" back, won't it? :roll:

 

If they want to play THEIR game under THEIR terms, then let them play it there. Those players who don't want to play under those rules can play elsewhere.

 

Problem solved.

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It's Jagex' game, not YOUR or THEIR (referring you other players) game. Sorry to disappoint you there, Blyaunte.

 

They can make the decisions they want to, and we can choose to rage quit, quietly quit or continue and adapt.

 

There IS a vast majority that wants the old wilderness back - as shown by the poll and discussion topics here, on RSOF and on other RS related forums - and pkers aren't the only ones. You are forgetting a huge force; clans. Personally I am looking forward to seeing the return of some of the major clans that have closed for various reasons, and I want to see what they can do against the established clans that are currently fighting for and sitting on the top 10 places - unofficially, of course.

 

For someone to imply that pkers and clanners are simply greedy, mean or unintelligent kids would be more than just rude. It would be generalising and directly wrong. Many clans have age limits or a high average age (around 20) compared to the average players. What they are doing is also not morally or ethically wrong, they are just focusing on another part of the gameplay than the majority, that does a little of all.

 

Jagex have said loud and clear that not much gameplay will be affected when it comes to minigames/activities and quests that are situated in the current revenant guarded wilderness. I trust them to think these things over, and I am sure they have more things planned than they can tell us right now - especially in case something is more difficult to code than expected.

 

Free trade I have no strong opinions about, we got used to trade limits, we'll get used to other changes aswell. Doomsaying is for people who wants everything to stay constant, something that will not happen in the real world and most certainly not in a game world. I hope they give this update a shot, and then they can rebalance when needed.

You're accusing me of bigotry, how ironic. It's a nice attempt at argument, but your responses are facile and asinine, if not diatribe. Who's arrogant now?

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It's Jagex' game, not YOUR or THEIR (referring you other players) game. Sorry to disappoint you there, Blyaunte.

 

If it was Jagex's game, they wouldn't be altering the game to suit the desire of a purported, albeit vocal, "majority".

 

Man you can tell that there's no one at Jagex who is a parent. The Pker's have been behaving like children in a department store, screaming about how they want (a certain toy) the "old wildy" back, and instead of curbing the unruly child's behaviour and telling them to sit the [bleep] down and shut up, they've been filling the shopping cart with a variety of items, time and again, in an effort to appease the screaming child.

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Bounty Hunter"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Fist of Guthix"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Clan Wars"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Soul Wars"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

Nothing they have tried has managed to appease these people. Why in the hell do they think that bringing back the "old wildy" will work?

 

What they need to do is behave like responsible parents and take the gods damned child out of the store, already and be done with it.

 

There IS a vast majority that wants the old wilderness back ...

 

Actually no there isn't. There is a "majority" of people who want "the wilderness and free trade" back. There's a difference. A HUGE DIFFERENCE. If they wanted to make this poll realistic, then they should separate the two items completely. They are, in fact, two separate issues.

 

And if you'd bother to read the other threads about "the old wilderness", you'd notice that what these people want is not "the old wildy" back, but rather a modified variation thereof wherein extremes, dunge weapons and other top-quality equipment isn't allowed, because it might "unbalance" combat. :roll:

 

As I've said before, I don't give a rat's ass if they bring back the wilderness or not, or they allow free-trade or not, I will adapt and play regardless.

 

What annoys me is that Jagex has back-pedalled on this entire issue and, once again, demonstrated poor leadership which will be followed by further poor decisions, poor programming and more [bleep]ing, whining and crying by this imaginary "majority" of players.

 

:rolleyes:

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No one in their right mind would pk if it was a guaranteed money loss case. Or pk if the odds are like 40% loss..

 

The problem with only pker worlds would mean that only pkers go there..

I do see your point, which makes sense, but if I may ask, why would it be guaranteed loss at all? Anyone fighting with a 0% chance of winning would be incompetent. In the case of 60%, you would still make money... Hopefullly.

but in case of 50% (which is ultimatelly the case for the average pking scaper) you will loose money - on food etc.

 

It's like entering a lottery then: the average return on a ticket is always smaller than what you paid for.

First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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Personally – I think that, considering all the hoops that Jagex jumped through in their efforts to appease the "vast majority" of players who wanted the return of the "old wilderness" – I think it is only fitting that, if, as and when they bring back the "old wilderness", Jagex give to those players who'd prefer NOT to have the "old wilderness" back, the SAME consideration.

 

That is, there should be NON-PVP worlds made available so that people can go penguin hunting and do all the other activities in the Wildnerness that exist therein today.

 

This, in my opinion, would be the easiest solution ...

 

So, you think that in Dec 2007, they should've saved half the worlds to allow free trade and the old wilderness?

 

I don't think that's what happened...

 

Also, a very good job ignoring 5/6 of Laikrob's point.

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It's Jagex' game, not YOUR or THEIR (referring you other players) game. Sorry to disappoint you there, Blyaunte.

 

If it was Jagex's game, they wouldn't be altering the game to suit the desire of a purported, albeit vocal, "majority".

 

Man – you can tell that there's no one at Jagex who is a parent. The Pker's have been behaving like children in a department store, screaming about how they want (a certain toy) the "old wildy" back, and instead of curbing the unruly child's behaviour and telling them to sit the [bleep] down and shut up, they've been filling the shopping cart with a variety of items, time and again, in an effort to appease the screaming child.

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Bounty Hunter"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Fist of Guthix"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Clan Wars"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

"Here, screaming child, how about "Soul Wars"?"

 

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

Nothing they have tried has managed to appease these people. Why in the hell do they think that bringing back the "old wildy" will work?

 

What they need to do is behave like responsible parents and take the gods damned child out of the store, already and be done with it.

 

There IS a vast majority that wants the old wilderness back ...

 

Actually – no there isn't. There is a "majority" of people who want "the wilderness and free trade" back. There's a difference. A HUGE DIFFERENCE. If they wanted to make this poll realistic, then they should separate the two items completely. They are, in fact, two separate issues.

 

And if you'd bother to read the other threads about "the old wilderness", you'd notice that what these people want is not "the old wildy" back, but rather a modified variation thereof wherein extremes, dunge weapons and other top-quality equipment isn't allowed, because it might "unbalance" combat. :roll:

 

As I've said before, I don't give a rat's ass if they bring back the wilderness or not, or they allow free-trade or not, I will adapt and play regardless.

 

What annoys me is that Jagex has back-pedalled on this entire issue and, once again, demonstrated poor leadership – which will be followed by further poor decisions, poor programming and more [bleep]ing, whining and crying by this imaginary "majority" of players.

 

:rolleyes:

Bits of your language and tone aren't very becoming, and I would appreciate it if you toned down the swearing and ranting. This isn't the Rants forum. Thinking and censoring/rewriting a bit before hitting Enter is always a good idea, and I often use that technique myself aswell. :)

 

Back to topic: I am not sure how you can draw a conclusion about the Jagex Mods' real life based on how the company they work for listens to the majority of their young and adult players when implementing huge changes. I could make similar theories to support my view (A zoo decides to stop feeding the lion meat, and instead gives it various vegetables - then decides it's a bad idea, even though there are more varied vegetables and that veggies are better for many animals, and the zoo gives the lion meat again. Zoo = Jagex, lion = a lot of players, meat = old wilderness, vegetables = PvP minigames), yet all it does is telling a story about something else and it proves nothing about the given situation.

 

If you want to quote me, at least quote the full sentence - that is common courtesy, and helps preventing quoting out of context. :)

There IS a vast majority that wants the old wilderness back - as shown by the poll and discussion topics here, on RSOF and on other RS related forums - and pkers aren't the only ones.

What I see on the various discussion topics is a generally positive attitude towards the old Wilderness. Many players have missed it, including myself. :) I am sorry that you chose to disregard some of my post, and compared pkers to crying children. A big part of them are, again, older than the average player base, and many of them have been playing for a very long time.

 

Now I am not sure where your assumption about people wanting a Wildy Light version to avoid the complexity and possible imbalance of one where most equipment, potions and prayers are allowed. Like in the past, many clans stay in F2P for this very reason - and some pkers aswell. In fact, there are very few P2P based clans, and one of the reasons is because it is very expensive for the involved players. This won't change much, if at all, and these players have thoroughly expressed that they want something as close to the old Wilderness as possible. You asked if I had read any of the other topics about this, and yes, I have. On the different forums on Tip.It, on RSOF, on several clan forums and on a few other fansites. In addition I have been listening in on the discussions in some of the clan chats I frequent. Clans is something I take a special interest in, even though I am not a part of the Clan Staff anymore, so I make sure to keep myself updated on changes that may have an effect on the clan world and the views on it. I am sure you can find single quotes supporting your opinion that they "all" want a modified version, but the general tone is that they are very excited about the suggested implementation.

 

Whether Jagex has showed good leadership or not, time will tell. However, taking feedback from the customer base in different areas is one of the main things I would consider important - in addition to creating publicity and securing a healthy company economy. To me, it looks like they are doing that quite well. :thumbup:

 

When it comes to players whining... "Glass house" is my only comment to that.

You're accusing me of bigotry, how ironic. It's a nice attempt at argument, but your responses are facile and asinine, if not diatribe. Who's arrogant now?

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Easiest solution, take all the worlds that are designated pvp now and when the switch is made designate them as non-pvp worlds where no pvp happens anywhere. Then simply add lines of text to all the quests in the wildy so that if they quests are started on a pvp wildy world they are informed that there are worlds where they won't be hasseled by pkers. No need to move anything.

 

About AZ's specifically, to prevent them being too crowded it would be very simple to add a different entrance that isn't in the wildy to those tunnels.

Trolling by giving good advice since April 2011.

 

The Blog - Currently Cleaning Herbs

 

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Simply instance all the Wilderness areas required for quests or provide an alternative path for the non-Wilderness quest areas that can be only reached from the Wilderness. That way there are no lore changes required.

 

E.g.

Defender of Varrock: zombie trail hunting -> instance

Temple at Senntisten: Ghorrock castle -> provide an alternative non-wild path there (via Zemouregal's castle?)

 

Have a character offering free teleports to minigames or provide alternative paths (tunnels?).

 

Moving the Fist of Guthix completely outside Wilderness would require lore changes. If I remember correctly, the Wilderness is dead due to an energy blast caused by Guthix attempting to destroy the Stone of Jas at the place currently known as the Fist of Guthix.

 

Guthix put his fist down and the angels as well as demons fled.
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Yes, I think the proposed changes would be worth the time. Though some of these should be relatively easy to accomodate for anyway, such as "Clan wars" (why not just make a certain perimeter around it "safe" and have some sort of teleportation thing going on? This might well be applicable to others, though I confess I'm behind on quests a bit so I'm not entirely sure).

 

(http://rsvote.wordpress.com).

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Blogs on the free trade/wilderness referendum: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

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