Please Lock.

[Bloodstain]

You made this topic and made a pretty bold statement, why do we need to wait until the 11th? Is that when you get your paper back with corrections from the teacher?

[Noxx]

You made this topic and made a pretty bold statement, why do we need to wait until the 11th? Is that when you get your paper back with corrections from the teacher?

Because that's when i head back home, where my paper is.

And even if there are corrections on the paper they might still prove you wrong. Just because they are corrections doesnt make them corrections that will agree with your statement :P

[Bloodstain]

You said you're sure you could find reasons on the internet. You have access to the internet now. You admitted you did next to no research for your paper. Why would your paper have any evidence to prove your point aside from your opinion?

[Noxx]

You said you're sure you could find reasons on the internet. You have access to the internet now. You admitted you did next to no research for your paper. Why would your paper have any evidence to prove your point aside from your opinion?

I meant no researh concerning other nations. Should have specified that. My bad.

 

EDIT: Also, it's going to take me a while and a lot of trouble to find the "reasons". A lot more trouble than i can be bothered for. So i'll just wait till the 11th or you could go ahead and do some research yourself if you want to.

[Bloodstain]

Aslo, Bloodstain, i didn't do any research at all. None was required.

 

It's not hard to find studies on the internet. Especially if what you say is true. But it's not, so you won't find any

 

EDIT: Also, it's going to take me a while and a lot of trouble to find the "reasons". A lot more trouble than i can be bothered for. So i'll just wait till the 11th or you could go ahead and do some research yourself if you want to.

 

I can back up pretty much every one of my statements, now YOU back up YOURS

[Noxx]

You said you're sure you could find reasons on the internet. You have access to the internet now. You admitted you did next to no research for your paper. Why would your paper have any evidence to prove your point aside from your opinion?

I meant no researh concerning other nations. Should have specified that. My bad.

 

EDIT: Also, it's going to take me a while and a lot of trouble to find the "reasons". A lot more trouble than i can be bothered for. So i'll just wait till the 11th or you could go ahead and do some research yourself if you want to.

 

I could wait :)

Sweet. Saving me some trouble then.

[Magbill]

I think there should be a death penalty, but only when the worst of crimes are commited. Some people are just far too screwed in the head to be living in society, and if they happen to masacre many people then the death penalty should be given. Of course it should only be given when there is absolutely no doubt who did it. And to the people saying death should not be an option, what if someone masacred children at a primary school. In my opinion there is no punishment to fit a crime such as that.

[Bloodstain]

what if someone masacred children at a primary school.

Never happened to my knowledge, never will happen.

 

 

If you want a good example of someone too far gone, you want Carl Panzram.

"I have no desire whatever to reform myself. My only desire is to reform people who try to reform me. And I believe that the only way to reform people is to kill 'em."

 

"My motto is to rob em all, rape em all, and kill em all"

 

Guy killed and raped and tortured tons and tons of men and boys.

 

"In my lifetime I've murdered 21 human beings, I've committed thousands of burglaries, robberies, larcenies, arsons, and last but not least I have committed sodomy on more than one thousand male human beings"

 

"My intention was to rob, rape, and kill anybody and everybody"

 

"I am sorry...sorry that I am unable to murder the whole damn human race"

 

"For all of these things, I am not the least bit sorry. I have no conscience so that does not worry me. I don't believe in man, God, nor the devil. I hate the whole damned human race including myself."

 

Granted the guy was a victim himself.

It's a damn interesting read, and a tragedy that no psychologists or anything were given access to him

 

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/history/panzram1/1.html

[Guest Rob]

what if someone masacred children at a primary school.

Never happened to my knowledge, never will happen.

It has happened, many times.

[Bloodstain]

When?

[Guest Rob]

A good example would be the Oklahoma bombing. Someone blew up an important building, that happened to have a daycare center in it. I know it's not a school, but I'm positive I've heard about school shootings. I think there was one on this board before, a few months back.

 

Edit: Or, this.

[Bloodstain]

Day care definitely counts, but school shootings aren't elementary shootings. And usually there's a mental component to it too. Definitely not beyond rehabilitation. But of course people would rather see blood and retribution than rehab

[Noxx]

Okay i did a quick search on the Middle East and its crime rate seeing as most of the Middle Eastern countries use the Death Penalty/Capital Punishment. You will find that most of the M-E countries have the lowest Murder rates as well as lowest Murders Per capita rate. Also, they have the lowest Murders With Fire Arms aswell as Murders with fire arms per capita rates. They do however have umongst the highest execution rates (3 middle eastern countries are in the top 4). So this already says something. Keep in mind though, countries like Pakistan and Iran will often be at the top of the table for all 5 of the catagories i mentioned, but those are also countries that have a lot of religious clashes with other religions, so they have to be disregarded. USA featured in the top 10 for 3 of these catagories, and South Africa featured in the top 5 for 4 of them (all except executions). Already this confirms that countries witht he death penalty have a lot less violent crimes. Most of their crimes are GTA's and Break-Ins. An assault here and there, but much fewer murders and rapes. I also came across a piece that said capital punishment as a detterent is a fail seeing as most killers don't think about the punishment while killing, but rather about who they're killing and how to get away. But then again the point of capital punishment is to stop them from having those homocidal thoughts in the first place.

 

I actually had a convo with a friend a 2 years or so ago, just after i moved to Qatar and we spoke about the low crime rate here. I asked him howcome there is no crime, although the majority of the country consists of nationalities where the crime rates are of the highest in the world. His answer was something along the lines of Qataris aren't afraid to kill those who put others' lives at risk. When i asked him about less serious crimes such as shop lifting or car theft,, he replies with something in the lines of Muslims need both hands to survive. I can eat with the same hand i wipe my ass, and i cant wipe my ass with the same hand i eat.

So capital punishment is doing a good job here atleast.

 

Anyway just thought i'd add that find.

[Noxx]

A good example would be the Oklahoma bombing. Someone blew up an important building, that happened to have a daycare center in it. I know it's not a school, but I'm positive I've heard about school shootings. I think there was one on this board before, a few months back.

Colombine(sp?)? Although i'm sure that was high school. Still kids nonetheless.

[Bloodstain]

Okay i did a quick search on the Middle East and its crime rate seeing as most of the Middle Eastern countries use the Death Penalty/Capital Punishment. You will find that most of the M-E countries have the lowest Murder rates as well as lowest Murders Per capita rate. Also, they have the lowest Murders With Fire Arms aswell as Murders with fire arms per capita rates. They do however have umongst the highest execution rates (3 middle eastern countries are in the top 4). So this already says something. Keep in mind though, countries like Pakistan and Iran will often be at the top of the table for all 5 of the catagories i mentioned, but those are also countries that have a lot of religious clashes with other religions, so they have to be disregarded. USA featured in the top 10 for 3 of these catagories, and South Africa featured in the top 5 for 4 of them (all except executions). Already this confirms that countries witht he death penalty have a lot less violent crimes. Most of their crimes are GTA's and Break-Ins. An assault here and there, but much fewer murders and rapes. I also came across a piece that said capital punishment as a detterent is a fail seeing as most killers don't think about the punishment while killing, but rather about who they're killing and how to get away. But then again the point of capital punishment is to stop them from having those homocidal thoughts in the first place.

 

I actually had a convo with a friend a 2 years or so ago, just after i moved to Qatar and we spoke about the low crime rate here. I asked him howcome there is no crime, although the majority of the country consists of nationalities where the crime rates are of the highest in the world. His answer was something along the lines of Qataris aren't afraid to kill those who put others' lives at risk. When i asked him about less serious crimes such as shop lifting or car theft,, he replies with something in the lines of Muslims need both hands to survive. I can eat with the same hand i wipe my ass, and i cant wipe my ass with the same hand i eat.

So capital punishment is doing a good job here atleast.

 

Anyway just thought i'd add that find.

 

So where's the evidence? You were supposed to prove that the lower crime rate was directly related to capital punishment, but you've failed to do that. Also the point of capital punishment isn't really stopping people from having "homocidal" (homicidal) thoughts, it's for retribution

[Bloodstain]

Colombine(sp?)? Although i'm sure that was high school. Still kids nonetheless.

 

Primary school = K - grade 4 or 5.

 

His example is a bad one because it's so unlikely to happen that we're having a hard time finding any examples. It's one of those extreme examples that will almost never happen, but people use because it's the worst thing they could think of, not the most likely.

[Noxx]

Okay i did a quick search on the Middle East and its crime rate seeing as most of the Middle Eastern countries use the Death Penalty/Capital Punishment. You will find that most of the M-E countries have the lowest Murder rates as well as lowest Murders Per capita rate. Also, they have the lowest Murders With Fire Arms aswell as Murders with fire arms per capita rates. They do however have umongst the highest execution rates (3 middle eastern countries are in the top 4). So this already says something. Keep in mind though, countries like Pakistan and Iran will often be at the top of the table for all 5 of the catagories i mentioned, but those are also countries that have a lot of religious clashes with other religions, so they have to be disregarded. USA featured in the top 10 for 3 of these catagories, and South Africa featured in the top 5 for 4 of them (all except executions). Already this confirms that countries witht he death penalty have a lot less violent crimes. Most of their crimes are GTA's and Break-Ins. An assault here and there, but much fewer murders and rapes. I also came across a piece that said capital punishment as a detterent is a fail seeing as most killers don't think about the punishment while killing, but rather about who they're killing and how to get away. But then again the point of capital punishment is to stop them from having those homocidal thoughts in the first place.

 

I actually had a convo with a friend a 2 years or so ago, just after i moved to Qatar and we spoke about the low crime rate here. I asked him howcome there is no crime, although the majority of the country consists of nationalities where the crime rates are of the highest in the world. His answer was something along the lines of Qataris aren't afraid to kill those who put others' lives at risk. When i asked him about less serious crimes such as shop lifting or car theft,, he replies with something in the lines of Muslims need both hands to survive. I can eat with the same hand i wipe my ass, and i cant wipe my ass with the same hand i eat.

So capital punishment is doing a good job here atleast.

 

Anyway just thought i'd add that find.

 

So where's the evidence? You were supposed to prove that the lower crime rate was directly related to capital punishment, but you've failed to do that. Also the point of capital punishment isn't really stopping people from having "homocidal" (homicidal) thoughts, it's for retribution

Well, retribution isn't the only reason. It's also supposed to a work as a scaring method for other criminals. You see a man die for a crime you want to commit and you end up thinking twice before doing so.

[Guest Rob]

See the edit in my original post. There are several primary school massacres, including:

 

[Hide=Warning: Includes violent content.]

 

Dunblane massacre. Unemployed former shopkeeper and Scout leader Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane Primary School armed with two 9 mm pistols and two .357 Magnum revolvers. He killed sixteen children and a teacher, and wounded 15 others before committing suicide. The subsequent police investigation revealed that Hamilton had loaded the magazines for his Browning with an alternating combination of fully metal jacketed and hollow point ammunition. This event led to the banning of handguns in the UK with the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997.

 

Cologne school massacre. Armed with an insecticide sprayer converted into a flamethrower, a lance, and a homemade mace, 42-year-old Walter Seifert entered the Katholische Volksschule in Cologne, Germany, and opened fire on female students playing in the courtyard. He then knocked in classroom windows with his mace and fired inside. Eight children and two teachers died, and twenty children and two teachers suffered injuries of severe burns. After swallowing poisonous insecticide E605, Seifert died the following day, while in custody.

[/hide]

[Bloodstain]

One over 10 years old, the other almost 50 years old. Definitely not anywhere near a common occurrence (that probably sounds weird)

 

e: also, his example or whatever was specifically primary schools.

[stevepole]

There have been primary/elementary school shootings. The first one that comes to mind was a shooting at an amish school a couple years back.

[sees_all1]

In industrialized countries, I'm against the death penalty. A person isn't dangerous once behind bars, so public safety is no longer an issue. In third world countries, securely locking someone up for life might not be an option :unsure: .

 

 

That said, three reasons for generically being against the death penalty are:

1. It puts blood on innocent hands

2. The justice system never was, and never will be 100% accurate

3. Human life is valued/sacred, death should be natural and not forced on anyone.

 

 

I could care less about the costs associated with the justice system, implied crime reduction or other statistics both sides like to throw around. They're small potatoes compared to the moral issues.

[Bloodstain]

There have been primary/elementary school shootings. The first one that comes to mind was a shooting at an amish school a couple years back.

 

There have been but there aren't enough and they don't happen often enough to bring back a form of capital punishment. It's a pretty stupid example anyway

[ho3f3l]

No man can decide about any other man life, especially when choosing to terminate it

[Nenga]

No man can decide about any other man life, especially when choosing to terminate it

Put yourself in the shoes of the victim.

 

This guy, killed your entire family, burned down your house, blew up your car, and killed all your pets. Could you honestly say you're ok with just letting him live? If you say yes, that's means you're a bold faced liar.

 

Oh and uhh welcome to tip.it. We all float down here.

[Magbill]

Pretty sure some some terrorist organisation(Taliban i think) bombs schools full of female children, only to keep them from being educated. Giving them no power or hope of doing anything in life. Just found something talking about this. http://centralasiaonline.com/cocoon/caii/xhtml/en_GB/features/caii/features/pakistan/2010/10/19/feature-02

What punishments suits those that bomb schools.