Ex-Professional Gamer's view of the "Scrub"

[GuidesForScapers]

Pretty much sums up people who take gaming too seriously, they play to win, i play for fun.

[Bladewing]

 

The fact is, most people going into Daemonheim have the goal of earning dungeoneering exp, and some of them have decided to do it poorly just because "that's the way it's meant to be played" or some rubbish.

 

You seem like your main goal in RS is to max out and get as much exp as efficiently as possible, which is fine. But that's not everyone's goal, hell I've been playing over 5 years and I'm just about to get my first 99. I just never cared about xp or getting high stats, I did whatever was fun the day I logged in regardless of how efficient it was. Different play styles, different goals

nice soapbox you've got there

 

could you please answer me these three questions: when you dungeoneer,

 

1. do you try to die, or avoid dying?

2. do you try to succeed, or fail at killing the boss?

3. do you prefer to get more experience, or less experience?

 

i think after you've answered them i'm sure you'll be able to understand what green is saying.

[Hajutze]

Pretty much sums up people who take gaming too seriously, they play to win, i play for fun.

Usually to have fun you have to achieve a goal. Two examples

> I won

> Meh I lost but at least I played good.

 

Their bar is just set a little bit higher. For example I don't see how anyone can have fun while getting pulverized but hey, if you can - be my guest, actually I'll be happy for you because I can't =/. Nothing personal put usually people who are "just having fun" or are saying "hey it's just a game" are the people who can't win anyways, so they instinctively set the bar lower for themselves.

[GuidesForScapers]

Pretty much sums up people who take gaming too seriously, they play to win, i play for fun.

Usually to have fun you have to achieve a goal. Two examples

> I won

> Meh I lost but at least I played good.

 

Their bar is just set a little bit higher. For example I don't see how anyone can have fun while getting pulverized but hey, if you can - be my guest, actually I'll be happy for you because I can't =/. Nothing personal put usually people who are "just having fun" or are saying "hey it's just a game" are the people who can't win anyways, so they instinctively set the bar lower for themselves.

I don't have to win to have fun, yes i achieve a goal but often that goal is so easy to achieve it is no sort of challenge. For example, getting people kicked out of games on CoD just for the lulz. It is extremely easy to do and i have a lot of fun doing it, of course they don't however...

[Vex]

I thought a "Scrub" was a derogatory term used by Australians lol.

[pulli23]

I haven't posted here in awhile, mostly just a lot of forum reading, but I thought this was worthy of a post.

 

I was linked to an interesting article written by an ex-professional Street Fighter player who discussed the term "scrub" (noob in RuneScape) and to whom it actually applies. I have many opinions about this article myself but I'd rather not leave you guys with an essay. What are your feelings on this article?

 

"A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win."

 

Here is the article link: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

 

P.S. I apologize in advance if this article has been posted before, I tried to search for it... but that doesn't always work so well. Enjoy.

Uhm "professional player" is such a stupid term.. It is a self-proclaimed professionalism. Anyone who gives himself that name is just full of himself.

Professional gaming means you game for a living- he earned money from competing in tournaments. It's not a pretentious label, it's what his job was called.

And it's only recognized as a "job" within the self-made circuit. I see it just as gambling: it's not a job, just some people are lucky to get more money than they spent!

[Vex]

I haven't posted here in awhile, mostly just a lot of forum reading, but I thought this was worthy of a post.

 

I was linked to an interesting article written by an ex-professional Street Fighter player who discussed the term "scrub" (noob in RuneScape) and to whom it actually applies. I have many opinions about this article myself but I'd rather not leave you guys with an essay. What are your feelings on this article?

 

"A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win."

 

Here is the article link: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

 

P.S. I apologize in advance if this article has been posted before, I tried to search for it... but that doesn't always work so well. Enjoy.

Uhm "professional player" is such a stupid term.. It is a self-proclaimed professionalism. Anyone who gives himself that name is just full of himself.

Professional gaming means you game for a living- he earned money from competing in tournaments. It's not a pretentious label, it's what his job was called.

And it's only recognized as a "job" within the self-made circuit. I see it just as gambling: it's not a job, just some people are lucky to get more money than they spent!

 

That's the same mentality as sportsmen competing in competitions. I'm not sure how individual sports work - as I don't think they are employed by say an athletics board however they must be part of some form of system to be able to be eligible to compete in the competition for a shot at the cash prize.

 

If they are successful most of their money comes from sponsorship.

 

(This doesn't apply to team sports, as you generally have a contract with the team, and when the team wins the money, the club(business) receives the cash)

[Shovelmeface]

Professional gamer.... Lolz

[Hajutze]

Professional gamer.... Lolz

 

In some countries you can consider gaming a more popular sport than football (soccer). It's a cult. Heck .. they even have special TV channels that broadcast starcraft games/interviews/etc 24-7 (I'm sure they have few channels for the other games as well but SC is the most popular), leagues, associations, they get payed good and the tournaments are regular. I see no reason to call it a profession - you get hired, you get payed, you have sponsors, you have to work to be "in shape" ...

 

As far as I remember a korean starcraft player went to the football team during the half-match break to cheer the players. And they were happier to see him then .. well the usual opposite (the gamer to see the sports players ..).*

 

Just because you find it silly it doesn't mean it's not a profession =/. For example I still find it dumb to call chess a professional sport but hey .. it's a sport.

 

 

*http://www.decerto.net/showthread.php?21942-Will-Mainstream-Gaming-Ever-Entertain-Huge-Crowds

 

"In Korea Starcraft players are treated like Celebrities. During the 2002 Fifa World Cup when Korea Republic got into the Semi Finals the Starcraft players were brought into the dressing room too inspire the players."

[Ginger_Warrior]

Although professional gaming does undoubtedly exist, I wouldn't call it a career. Much like darts. There's some 50,000 people who play darts 'professionally' in the UK and compete for prize money but the vast majority (ie, all except the very best) of them are dependent on second jobs or sponsorship deals.

 

Also, I don't understand why people are expanding the term 'scrub' to the whole efficiency debate. 'Scrubbing' only applies when people are in direct competition to each other and one person does something someone else perceives as giving them an unfair advantage despite it being an integral part of the game. It has nothing to do with someone making armour in dungeoneering - that's just being naive. But hey, this board loves nothing more than a good efficiency debate, right? :rolleyes:

[Pete Party]

All these people with their ow my what is the highest xp per hour!?

 

Ok yeh having high levels is fun, but I don't like sitting on my chair with my ass all tight because I HAVE to get a lvl up.

I am a laid back player, I try to play efficient so that I reach a personal goal, but I don't do the same things for hours and hours on.

 

 

I am not a noob, I know what I need to know.

I just don't care about how other people play this game, so you don't see me calling people scrubs because they are not doing things with the same reasons as me.

I do call people noobs when dungeoneering, that minigame really pisses me off. sorry for that heheh

[aspeeder]

The article seemed to assume that everyone wants to play to be skilled, to win no matter what, and always be the best and limiting yourself to certain methods only brings you down. While I can respect and in some cases admire that mindset, which allows for solutions that don't readily present themselves otherwise, not everyone has the goal of becoming a professional gamer and so don't need to have their definition of how games should be played changed. Is he right for people who want to win? Yes. Does that apply to every game and every person? No.

[Ginger_Warrior]

The article seemed to assume that everyone wants to play to be skilled, to win no matter what, and always be the best and limiting yourself to certain methods only brings you down.

Well of course it does, you seem to imply this is silly. Baring in mind the article is talking about competing as a Progamer in Street Fighter, why would you enter a competition where you didn't want to be the best there?

 

The article doesn't translate well into RuneScape. Because:

• For somebody to be scrubbing, a game must have a metagame to speak of. Otherwise, the scrubbing isn't scrubbing, it's just whining.
• RuneScape has no metagame (broadly speaking, some exception in proper PKing).

If you think scrubbing is when somebody is adamant on finishing a 5:5 small with full Fractite, then you clearly haven't understand the concept at all. It's completely different.

[pulli23]

The article seemed to assume that everyone wants to play to be skilled, to win no matter what, and always be the best and limiting yourself to certain methods only brings you down.

Well of course it does, you seem to imply this is silly. Baring in mind the article is talking about competing as a Progamer in Street Fighter, why would you enter a competition where you didn't want to be the best there?

Myabe for fun?

 

The thing you should remember is to use things as they are ment for..

 

Games are ment for fun.. And anyone who doesn't take fun as top priority while gaming should just be removed from the game!

[Ginger_Warrior]

I suppose people who play poker professionally should also be 'removed'? Card games were made for entertainment, after all.

[pulli23]

I suppose people who play poker professionally should also be 'removed'? Card games were made for entertainment, after all.

If they don't play for fun, they should be removed from playing yes.

[Hajutze]

I suppose people who play poker professionally should also be 'removed'? Card games were made for entertainment, after all.

If they don't play for fun, they should be removed from playing yes.

This is a whole new level of thinking out there! You shouldn't work for money, you should do it for fun instead :thumbsup:

[green9090]

I suppose people who play poker professionally should also be 'removed'? Card games were made for entertainment, after all.

If they don't play for fun, they should be removed from playing yes.

Wooow, this is the champion level of idiotic ideas. I'm in awe. Well played, sir.

[muggiwhplar]

 

The fact is, most people going into Daemonheim have the goal of earning dungeoneering exp, and some of them have decided to do it poorly just because "that's the way it's meant to be played" or some rubbish.

 

You seem like your main goal in RS is to max out and get as much exp as efficiently as possible, which is fine. But that's not everyone's goal, hell I've been playing over 5 years and I'm just about to get my first 99. I just never cared about xp or getting high stats, I did whatever was fun the day I logged in regardless of how efficient it was. Different play styles, different goals

nice soapbox you've got there

 

could you please answer me these three questions: when you dungeoneer,

 

1. do you try to die, or avoid dying?

2. do you try to succeed, or fail at killing the boss?

3. do you prefer to get more experience, or less experience?

 

i think after you've answered them i'm sure you'll be able to understand what green is saying.

 

Oh how wonderful it would be if his opinion could actually be reduced to such simple binaries :roll:

[Golvellius]

Before trying to apply this article to runescape you should move ahead two articles in the chain to "How far should I go to win?".

If you read that you'll quickly see that he mentions WOW and mmorpgs as being fundamentally flawed games that rely on the player to divine the will and rules of the game.

So in essence he is saying that these games aren't the ones that "professionals" play.

He needs games with clearly defined rules and moves like... ping pong.

Which is good, because he is talentless hack that homes in on imbalances/bugs in a game and writes it off as "blame the devs and you're all scrubs if you complain about me".

 

[There is a difference- a noob makes armor in dungeoneering because they haven't realized it's useless yet. A scrub makes armor in dungeoneering because damn it they want to and no efficiency nerd is going to tell them what to do no matter how many "facts" they throw at them.

If its useless then why do all the "pros" bind primal plates?

 

 

The fact is, most people going into Daemonheim have the goal of earning dungeoneering exp, and some of them have decided to do it poorly just because "that's the way it's meant to be played" or some rubbish.

 

You seem like your main goal in RS is to max out and get as much exp as efficiently as possible, which is fine. But that's not everyone's goal, hell I've been playing over 5 years and I'm just about to get my first 99. I just never cared about xp or getting high stats, I did whatever was fun the day I logged in regardless of how efficient it was. Different play styles, different goals

nice soapbox you've got there

 

could you please answer me these three questions: when you dungeoneer,

 

1. do you try to die, or avoid dying?

2. do you try to succeed, or fail at killing the boss?

3. do you prefer to get more experience, or less experience?

 

i think after you've answered them i'm sure you'll be able to understand what green is saying.

I think he is just saying what somebody told him to.

But, I can imagine his answers.

 

1.) Doesn't matter, 20 minute dungeon

2.) Doesn't matter, 20 minute dungeon, DONT MAKE ANY ARMOUR, GO HEAD FIRST WITH WRATH ON, DROP THE GGS ON TOP OF THE SUCKER.

3.) Doesn't matter, 20 minute dungeon, HAVE SOMEBODY FARM POTS THE WHOLE GAME JUST DON'T MAKE ARMOUR CAUSE THEY STUPID.

[aspeeder]

The article seemed to assume that everyone wants to play to be skilled, to win no matter what, and always be the best and limiting yourself to certain methods only brings you down.

Well of course it does, you seem to imply this is silly. Baring in mind the article is talking about competing as a Progamer in Street Fighter, why would you enter a competition where you didn't want to be the best there?

 

The article doesn't translate well into RuneScape. Because:

• For somebody to be scrubbing, a game must have a metagame to speak of. Otherwise, the scrubbing isn't scrubbing, it's just whining.
• RuneScape has no metagame (broadly speaking, some exception in proper PKing).

If you think scrubbing is when somebody is adamant on finishing a 5:5 small with full Fractite, then you clearly haven't understand the concept at all. It's completely different.

This is why the article doesn't apply to runescape very well: runescape doesn't have to be a competition. Like Dan pointed out, runescape is a lot more diverse than 1v1 fighting with no objective other than defeating the other person; how does a goal of completing all the quests apply directly to competition as per this article? It doesn't, not very well. There are certain aspects like pking where this mindset is found, but I stay away from those facets of the game and still have an enjoyable time. I can understand the author not wanting the scrubing attitude to spread so that the tournament style fighting remains top tier, but that hardly has to apply here. I'm agreeing with you, and I don't find the mindset silly as you seem to believe, just not applicable in the gaming culture we've developed here for the most part.

[wormy]

A scrub makes armor in dungeoneering because damn it they want to and no efficiency nerd is going to tell them what to do no matter how many "facts" they throw at them.

 

This did put quite the smile on my face, as I do fall into that category.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Agreed. This whole topic arose from the Wilderness thread about 1-iteming in PKing. This is literally the only example where scrubbing can exist in RuneScape, because it's the only place where players directly compete against one another. 'Competing' for granite rock spawns or a slayer monster isn't really competition, not in this context anyway.

[SirIzenhime]

By Green's definition of Scrub...I sometimes fall into that category, but at the same time, I do many other things efficiently.

[Saunamajuri]

A scrub makes armor in dungeoneering because damn it they want to and no efficiency nerd is going to tell them what to do no matter how many "facts" they throw at them.

 

This did put quite the smile on my face, as I do fall into that category.

I second that. Might as well make use of that pile of cash now that I don't need anything else.