Jump to content

Welcome to Rune Tips, the first ever RuneScape help site. We aim to offer skill guides, quest guides, maps, calculators, informative databases, tips, and much more to help you get the most from the Massive Online Adventure Game, RuneScape, by Jagex Ltd © 2009.

Report Ad

Welcome to Forum.Tip.It
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Tip.It Times - 9th January 2011


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#21
ventuzz
[ Display Name History ]

ventuzz

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:23 January 2005
  • RuneScape Status:Retired
  • RSN:ventuzz
I voted "no" because I had no idea how will they combat RWT. I probably would vote yes if they explained about it. Like tracking IP address, only allow 1 create account per month, block proxy, block china, etc...

This article is good read.
Hacked 10 years old account, permamently quit if Jagex doesn't return items.

Posted Image

#22
Dracae
[ Display Name History ]

Dracae

    Unicorn Horn

  • Editorial Panel
  • 220 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands
  • Joined:10 November 2005
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Dracae
  • Clan:The Tavern
The first article was very interesting and also worrying ..
Some parts I almost hear myself on the forums.. lately in my lil clan we have had to deal with cheating members, botters and accountsharers... used to not be an issue at all.
Now with wildy returning? some old friends also did, but.. I have the same fears about JAgex ability to deal with the inevitable bad consequences .

Besides this, the bit about clans demanding passwords and using ip-atacks is new.. but not surprising, since I also have seen the community change.

This reminds me of a theme in a Jack Vance fantasy story, one that has figured in some movies also: the attitudes, goals and intentions of the Leader of the Universe shapes the 'feel' of the whole universe.
Come to think of this, Jagex themselves used this theme in the Apmeken quest..
I have been seeing a changing attitude in the players as well as in Jagex(mods) be it on forums, or how they run the game...

On a side note, are you saying you can not report a botter if that botter has not talked to you or traded you?
I thought that restriction was only about offensive names?


As far as article 2:

The author sums it up quite nicely, exept.. there is nothing there to tell us why and how Jagex can now deal with the same problems (that ended up taking W/Ft from us).

I know theres new laws in China and Jagex talkes about new ways of combating the cheaters..

But.. what stops the sweatshops moving to lets say Vietnam.. how will Jagex win in legal battles against rwt-sites when the music industry can not against file sharing ones.. and as far as the new ways.. why not let that first prove itself, let it stand against botmakers trying to break it.. before taking down the walls..

#23
Ts_Stormrage
[ Display Name History ]

Ts_Stormrage

    A storm is coming...

  • Editorial Panel
  • 3,747 posts
Experiment yourself...

Have someone make an account that they'll never use again, and have it stand on a world near you... You can even attempt to trade with it before you try and report it...

This is apparently a safety feature so you do not report the wrong person by mis-spelling its name...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
wildsig3.gif
clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
CLICK IT!


#24
Rsvote
[ Display Name History ]

Rsvote

    Rat Meat

  • Members
  • 36 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:29 December 2010
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
"RuneScape and Legacy: Understanding the Context Behind the Referendum"

On the whole it's a poor article filled to the brim with exhausted points and little (if any? I'm giving the benfit of the doubt with "little") actual evaluation/explanation of the context (it basically almost entirely rests on previous statements by Jagex without looking beyond the peripheral value of these statements).

This article can be summarised like this: "Jagex thought autoing would kill the game, they said lots of stuff about this and made extreme changes to get rid of it, now they are going back on their previous changes (which they have devoted a lot of time into making better) due to some super special awesome technology they've obtained which many people are happy about, but I worry this could distract from other super cool things. Oh yeah, lots of things I'm going to ambigiously refer to have happened in 3 years, by the way." What would be more valuable than this would be for the article to say: "Go read all of the previous Jagex announcements relating to this topic and then go gossip with a random RS player for 20 minutes" as they'd get more information on this topic than by reading this shoddy article.

P.S. I also largely agree with the poster below, especially in that this has failed to achieve it's supposed purpose.

I voted "no" because I had no idea how will they combat RWT. I probably would vote yes if they explained about it. Like tracking IP address, only allow 1 create account per month, block proxy, block china, etc...

This article is good read.


I hope that's a joke. I really do.
Posted Image

Blogs on the free trade/wilderness referendum: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

#25
Earth_Poet
[ Display Name History ]

Earth_Poet

    Scorpion Pit

  • Members
  • 673 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:31 August 2007
  • RuneScape Status:None
  • RSN:Earth Poet

I will not go into additional detail on that count, but the past three years of progress and adjustment by Jagex and the games industry against real world trading must have made this referendum possible.


Actually, this is exactly where you should've went into more detail. You could've answered a lot more questions if your essay had been based solely on this topic. Most of the other information in your article is fairly well-known and has been exhaustively discussed.

By understanding the history and context of the removal of free trade and the wilderness in the first place, we can see that the referendum represents a company confident enough to face the menace of RWT and bots and fight it successfully - a question that Jagex must have answered.


When did they discover this mysterious new power? Yesterday? Last week? The history lesson was nice, but it didn't answer the BIG question.

Certainly Jagex has moved to develop adequate mechanisms to be prepared for the potential scenario of a second surge of botting and RWT.


How are you so certain? Behind the references, your article is still based on supposition. You failed to adequately support such a crucial statement. Most players already understand the significance of the referendum, and if they didn't live through it, then they heard the historical accounts ad nauseam. What everybody wants to know is what has changed since '07. How will things be different? If sending in those abuse reports in '07 did little to stem the tide of bots, why would it change anything now? In fact, the sister article this week even states that it would be impossible to report bots since they revamped the report system. So much for doing our part.
Posted Image

#26
AirWales
[ Display Name History ]

AirWales

    Unicorn Horn

  • Members
  • 179 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Edgeville
  • Joined:17 February 2009
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Air Wales
I would like to compliment the writer of the first article on summing up pretty much everything I think about RuneScape/Jagex how it is today.

I could type a whole rant here on how Jagex should do it differently for the sake of their loyal fan base, but lets be honest, there's nothing which has been said a thousand times already.

Thanks for the good read!

#27
Ts_Stormrage
[ Display Name History ]

Ts_Stormrage

    A storm is coming...

  • Editorial Panel
  • 3,747 posts
Air Wales; Sure thing, spread the word and who knows what might happen...

Sorry that it did not provide as much discussion value as my articles usually do ;)


And yes, Earth Poet, while reporting bots or anyone for that matter seems to be awesully restricted, I'm hoping against hope that jagex will actually implement a system that truly detects all bots...

Its up to them to permban them then, and not give em multiple chances...



Which is something I completely forgot to add to my article...

Jagex stated that they are giving people 2nd and 3rd chances for botting in the hopes that they would not lose revenue over people quitting... But wouldn't it cost much much more to have each bot-suspect account looked at and then decided upon wether to Ban it, remove some XP/GP, and in the latter case how much and of which levels?

Wouldn't a simple (hell yes to automation on this) BOT = BAN rule not free up much more manpower that is now used to determine punishments?

Or, and this is what I fear, are there already some predetermined set of rules when to ban and when not to ban? Say, when you are, or at some point have been a subscriber?

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
wildsig3.gif
clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
CLICK IT!


#28
Flabberwocky
[ Display Name History ]

Flabberwocky

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 85 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Puro-Puro
  • Joined:11 February 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Flabberwocky
  • Clan:36th Chamber
Response to Rsvote

Response to Earth Poet


In closing, I would like to say that I come from an old school of thought where I believe a point made, however well articulated the argument may be, deserves a respectful, and if possible, complete answer. I believe that by setting aside the time to read through my article and then to post on the forum, even if not with the most positive of words I respect some of the points you have made. I have tried my best to provide you with an adequate explanation and response to points of criticism you both raised, and acknowledge where I was indeed weaker in my piece. If you have read through my entire response to your criticism, I thank you again deeply for setting aside your time to do so.


If you have additional questions, etc.


Please do not hesitate to PM me.

Thank you if you've taken the time again to read.

#29
Earth_Poet
[ Display Name History ]

Earth_Poet

    Scorpion Pit

  • Members
  • 673 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:31 August 2007
  • RuneScape Status:None
  • RSN:Earth Poet
@Flabberwocky: Thank you for your detailed response. I have read it, but I need some time to form a proper response.

@Ts Stormrage: Do you really think goldfarmers will care about statwipes?
Posted Image

#30
X3EN
[ Display Name History ]

X3EN

    Scorpion Pit

  • Members
  • 556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vilnius, Lithuania
  • Joined:1 February 2007
  • RuneScape Status:Retired
  • RSN:oO000oO0oO00
It is rather interesting to read a full scale article about the fact that community is declining... NOT.

The community is declining, first of all in terms of quantity. There's no need to write a large article how it affects the quality of the leftover.

savormix.gif
R.I.P. oO000oO0oO00, RS2 range pure transformed to a maxed PvM char in EoC, ten years of time completely wasted.
Good to be gone :)


#31
Rsvote
[ Display Name History ]

Rsvote

    Rat Meat

  • Members
  • 36 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:29 December 2010
  • RuneScape Status:P2P


I would like to thank you for reading the article however I disagree with the generalization that you made of it. Most specifically your statement that I somehow articulated that Jagex has invented some "super special awesome technology they've obtained which many people are happy about, but I worry this could distract from other super cool things." Nowhere do I say that they have produced some silver bullet to combat the threat of Real World Trading or Bots to be able to say that Free Trade and the Wilderness could return.

Fine. I apologise.

Based on the context and the reasons Jagex cited to remove the Wilderness and Free Trade however I did conclude the article saying "By understanding the history and context of the removal of free trade and the wilderness in the first place, we can see that the referendum represents a company confident enough to face the menace of RWT and bots and fight it successfully - a question that Jagex must have answered." That sentence was not a declaration of confidence but rather something that I believe that Jagex would have, and I said in the final sentence "must have" answered so that they could even offer this Referendum for the players. If I had phrased this as a question at the end perhaps this confusion would have been avoided. I had made it a statement as a stylistic choice because

I felt that the piece focused very much so on the history of the game in 2007 and how things moved to the present day situation with the Grand Exchange and "New Wilderness" it would be a reasonable statement to conclude.

I think this was a problem with it. You did focus very much on the games news articles at a very peripheral level and gave only ambiguous references to the outside context (which to be honest, was my grand problem with this article), which warrants considerably more attention than this piece gifted.

And finally, I did not choose to ask this question to the players because this is a question that Jagex must have had prepared an adequate answer for. It is their job to supply all parts of this answer they can disclose to us, the players. as well, and tell us how we can help.

Jagex never really cracked transparency. I do wonder if the best answer we'll get has already been given (basically that they have some new software which apparently makes the old system sustainable).

In regards to your statement that it would have been better for me to simply say: "Go read all of the previous Jagex announcements relating to this topic and then go gossip with a random RS player for 20 minutes"

I have friends that have played for years, many of them do not have the urge to go back through and read all those newsposts, all those dev blogs, to read thousands and thousands of words on the subject. I believe it is the purpose of good journalism to collect that massive mountain of information and provide it in an understandable and readable manner for those who may not seek to pour through all those documents.

I know many friends who play RuneScape and have played since 2007 and far, far, earlier even, and when I talked to them about what they remembered, many of them wished to understand the reasoning behind the removal of Free Trade and the Wilderness. I too, did not like the removal of Free Trade and the Wilderness, it devastated the Guild I was in at the time, and many of my best friends and players I trained with and had a great deal of fun with left the game because of it. To reply "Bots" to them certainly would have answered the question. But it would have not given the full context and seriousness of the situation. I wrote the article because I knew that some people would appreciate having someone go through all these documents and from them write one piece that summarized and explained the reason behind it adequately for them.

I can accept that without criticism in itself; indeed there's much value in writing reports/situation summaries. It's the fact you didn't give much (if anything) else in a blog which was about "understanding the context"; there are other contextual factors (Jagex's financial situation, etc), some of which you did indeed give offhanded references to (the legal scenario, for instance). I have read your reply to Earth Poet, and I can understand your reasoning, but fansites are not bound by Jagex's rules and it's a shame appropriate modifications couldn't have been made for a more full understanding of the context as this is what many of your readers will not be aware of/not have time to research.

I have friends who started playing after the removal of Free Trade and the Wild in 2008. They do not understand what the time was like before Free Trade and the Wilderness, and many of them wanted to know why, but did not want to go through the mountains of newsposts and dev blogs that I referred them to. This was a piece that I wrote for them that I hoped would shine some light on the history of the game and have them understand in general, what was going on in RuneScape up to that point that made for a change that so many people have been complaining about.

Finally, I provided those newsposts and dev blog references at the end because I know many types of people read the Tip.it times, and some of them would certainly enjoy reading through those documents themselves firsthand to draw their own conclusion.

You answered most of my criticisms in your reply to Earth Poet, but I have tried to integrate my attitudes into a commentary of the reply which you had intended for me. I now see the logic in your decisions, but I still don't think they were correct; you didn't give enough.


Posted Image

Blogs on the free trade/wilderness referendum: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

#32
Flabberwocky
[ Display Name History ]

Flabberwocky

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 85 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Puro-Puro
  • Joined:11 February 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Flabberwocky
  • Clan:36th Chamber
Rsvote,

I intended to write out a reply to both of you hopefully to address both of your concerns at once, especially considering you agreed with most of Earth's opinions. However because of the length of the response, and to be honest, I was worried that a giant wall of text would prove intimidating I broke it into two individual portions to make sure it was more readable.

I think the major issue you have with my piece remains that you do wish I could have talked more broadly about industry as a whole and the lack of direct citations. Unfortunately that is beyond the scope of my intention with the piece. I wanted to give the RuneScape perspective in 2007 and I admit that I flirted with exploring the topic much more broadly. But I feel such an effort would produce a piece that would have been far more lengthier, far more prone to error, and far more like a research paper than a summary. Many people were excited about the return of Free Trade and the Wilderness and in the community in which I was part of - which I freely admit this piece was intended for in the first place, aimed immediately to talk ecstatically about how the removal of the Grand Exchange focused far too much on the positives whilst not even mentioning the potential threats that Jagex will have to talk to us about - which to me is the RWT threat, something we will have to certainly prepare for.

I wanted to provide the RuneScape perspective and I think by hinting at the broader scope of things when I originally wrote it to be as a conversation starter for those larger industry trends. I think that I should have chosen the wording of the subtitle to the article more carefully to clarify that when I said "To understand the importance of this referendum one needs to understand the reasons for which the Wilderness and free trade were removed in the first place. This piece attempts to do so by examining the history of the period leading up to the removal of free trade and the Wilderness." I was referring specifically to the decisions made by Jagex and in RuneScape and not seeking to do an industry-wide observation piece. I did make an assumption when I submitted the piece to Tip.it that people would see it as a RuneScape focused piece.

I think if after reading this piece that one of your criticisms (which I optimistically hoped would be given as a suggestion though :pray:) was for people to ask "how is the situation in RuneScape similar to other things going on in the industry against RWT" or to chime in (if they had read pieces on it) with their own references to pieces on the subject - by saying that my references to these industry changes " warrants considerably more attention than this piece gifted. " I think while missing the purpose of the piece, does really achieve one of the goals I had for the piece - for people to think about this as one of the big industry challenges for MMOs and how they've tried to address/combat it over the past several years.

Thanks for seeing the logic and reasoning behind the piece. Ultimately I think your main criticism stems from the fact that the piece left you wanting of more information. As I said this piece did not say Jagex had a silver bullet to solve the RWT problem, I will say this piece was not a silver bullet to answer and provide explanations on the level you are seeking. The best the piece can do is to provide the RuneScape perspective in 2007 to remind people of the threat that put in the updates that so many RuneScapers based on the referendum have been eager to repeal in the first place. I respect your decision if you feel my logic, whilst reasonable is ultimately incorrect - but I feel that one of the most important things pieces like this can do is "start" discussion on the subject, not be the be all end all. I know that I would not want to spend all my time acknowledging and responding to criticism - especially if the main issue appears to be "not enough information".

I believe your ultimate grievance lies outside the purpose of my piece (which perhaps would have benefited better as a series on the subject, which was what I originally intended it to be - but I can't explore a subject like this for the paper on the RSOF, and I don't know if the Editorial Panel would be so interested in such a series from a nonstaff member) . I can only conclude by saying that the Tip.it commenting community is knowledgeable enough to provide the answers to acknowledge a piece for its merits, and to continue the discussion beyond the article itself with its active forum community. In fact, if you feel you can address the portions you feel "I didn't give enough" on, absolutely write your own submission for the Times, I would look forward to reading it!

#33
Rsvote
[ Display Name History ]

Rsvote

    Rat Meat

  • Members
  • 36 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:29 December 2010
  • RuneScape Status:P2P

Rsvote,

I intended to write out a reply to both of you hopefully to address both of your concerns at once, especially considering you agreed with most of Earth's opinions. However because of the length of the response, and to be honest, I was worried that a giant wall of text would prove intimidating I broke it into two individual portions to make sure it was more readable.

I think the major issue you have with my piece remains that you do wish I could have talked more broadly about industry as a whole and the lack of direct citations. Unfortunately that is beyond the scope of my intention with the piece. I wanted to give the RuneScape perspective in 2007 and I admit that I flirted with exploring the topic much more broadly. But I feel such an effort would produce a piece that would have been far more lengthier, far more prone to error, and far more like a research paper than a summary. Many people were excited about the return of Free Trade and the Wilderness and in the community in which I was part of - which I freely admit this piece was intended for in the first place, aimed immediately to talk ecstatically about how the removal of the Grand Exchange focused far too much on the positives whilst not even mentioning the potential threats that Jagex will have to talk to us about - which to me is the RWT threat, something we will have to certainly prepare for.

I wanted to provide the RuneScape perspective and I think by hinting at the broader scope of things when I originally wrote it to be as a conversation starter for those larger industry trends. I think that I should have chosen the wording of the subtitle to the article more carefully to clarify that when I said "To understand the importance of this referendum one needs to understand the reasons for which the Wilderness and free trade were removed in the first place. This piece attempts to do so by examining the history of the period leading up to the removal of free trade and the Wilderness." I was referring specifically to the decisions made by Jagex and in RuneScape and not seeking to do an industry-wide observation piece. I did make an assumption when I submitted the piece to Tip.it that people would see it as a RuneScape focused piece.

I think if after reading this piece that one of your criticisms (which I optimistically hoped would be given as a suggestion though :pray:) was for people to ask "how is the situation in RuneScape similar to other things going on in the industry against RWT" or to chime in (if they had read pieces on it) with their own references to pieces on the subject - by saying that my references to these industry changes " warrants considerably more attention than this piece gifted. " I think while missing the purpose of the piece, does really achieve one of the goals I had for the piece - for people to think about this as one of the big industry challenges for MMOs and how they've tried to address/combat it over the past several years.

Thanks for seeing the logic and reasoning behind the piece. Ultimately I think your main criticism stems from the fact that the piece left you wanting of more information. As I said this piece did not say Jagex had a silver bullet to solve the RWT problem, I will say this piece was not a silver bullet to answer and provide explanations on the level you are seeking. The best the piece can do is to provide the RuneScape perspective in 2007 to remind people of the threat that put in the updates that so many RuneScapers based on the referendum have been eager to repeal in the first place. I respect your decision if you feel my logic, whilst reasonable is ultimately incorrect - but I feel that one of the most important things pieces like this can do is "start" discussion on the subject, not be the be all end all. I know that I would not want to spend all my time acknowledging and responding to criticism - especially if the main issue appears to be "not enough information".

I believe your ultimate grievance lies outside the purpose of my piece (which perhaps would have benefited better as a series on the subject, which was what I originally intended it to be - but I can't explore a subject like this for the paper on the RSOF, and I don't know if the Editorial Panel would be so interested in such a series from a nonstaff member) . I can only conclude by saying that the Tip.it commenting community is knowledgeable enough to provide the answers to acknowledge a piece for its merits, and to continue the discussion beyond the article itself with its active forum community. In fact, if you feel you can address the portions you feel "I didn't give enough" on, absolutely write your own submission for the Times, I would look forward to reading it!


As you clearly anticipate, I do not retract my desire for more to be given to the Runescape community on one of the larger fan-bases, and (since you suggested it) if I did have the time, I would have indeed composed a piece on the larger context; unfortunately I do not have the time. However, I do appreciate and accept your stance/decision in regards to this article, even if I still hold that it's a shame that more couldn't have been given.

Thank you for taking the time to reply on multiple occassions. I didn't take offence to the reply being split somewhat, by the way.
Posted Image

Blogs on the free trade/wilderness referendum: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

#34
Earth_Poet
[ Display Name History ]

Earth_Poet

    Scorpion Pit

  • Members
  • 673 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:31 August 2007
  • RuneScape Status:None
  • RSN:Earth Poet
@Flabberwocky


Posted Image

#35
cultjunky
[ Display Name History ]

cultjunky

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 88 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Leeds
  • Joined:9 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Cultjunky
Firstly, let me say thank you for two very interesting articals.

In regard to "Come on", I agree, the playing community isn't the same as it was in year dot. Equally, the widespread knowledge of fan sites wasn't as prevelant either, so if you needed help, you had to ask in game. One aspect that wasn't included in the essay, was the role of player moderators. Back in the day, those folks who became player moderators, did so because they felt they had knowledge to impart, or that they could be role models demonstrating a 'right way' to play the game - playing nicely and fairly. I haven't seen a PM being helpfull in a long time. Without that positive influence, the community may well have declined in it's in game friendliness, but that doen't mean the community has declined. It just means that the community as changed how it interacts. The rise in the number and diversity of clans is testament to that.

It's perhaps the role of the player moderators that could be a strong arm in the fight against bots, scams and grifters. They could be used to help identify suspicious play, I don't mean shouting 'BOT - REPORTED' every time they walk past the yew patch and no-one is chatting (c'mon, you never watched TV while woodcutting???), but in being able to identify, correctly, any avatars that are playing in a suspicious manner. Yes, it could be interpreted as a kind of 'secret police', but one would hope a force devoid of corruption.

As to the return of Wildy and unbalanced trade, it's a populist tactic. It would be possible to reintroduce unbalanced trade without the Wilderness of old, but not vice versa. Personally, I don't see that it would be the Wildy of old. Which will only disapoint all those folks that have come out of retirement and so send them back. The game has moved on, new spells, potions and prayers have been introduced, which will make participating in that aspect of the game much more tactical. It could be a very interesting development within the clan communities.

In regard to "Runescape and Legacy..." I think it is important to remind players of old, and inform newwer players of the pitfalls of the reintroduction of Wildy and unbalanced trade, yet I fear that most voters cast their vote and then had a look at the debate. As I previously mentioned, it being a populist tactic, suggests that Jagex didn't want it's players making an informed choice, otherwise, the debate on the forums would have preceeded the vote by a couple of weeks. Calling it a referendum is wrong. A referendum is a period of consultation and debate followed by a vote. It suggests to me that, as mentioned previously in this thread, this is a short term solution to a financial situation Jagex finds itself in. Wouldn't it be terrible, if after all the fanfares and exuberance of the reintroduction of this aspect of the game, actually signals the deathknell of the game?
Posted Image

#36
Rsvote
[ Display Name History ]

Rsvote

    Rat Meat

  • Members
  • 36 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:29 December 2010
  • RuneScape Status:P2P

Perhaps I am a greater cynic of Jagex than you. I never once thought, “Oh, Jagex is finally listening to its players.” I’ve watched the company’s philosophy slowly shift over the last couple of years. Jagex has some history of being disingenuous with its player base. Even this poll has smelled fishy from the start, and a lot of players are waiting to see what the catch to all of this is. To suddenly spring up a poll about the most controversial and most discussed event in the history of the game, and then to feign surprise at the level of response it receives either means they are not as in touch with the community as it may seem, or they are being disingenuous at this very moment.

Thank you for the other information I suggested that you provide though. Two very big things stand out in my eyes. First, Jagex is facing tougher competition, and a gradually declining player base. There will always be a natural turnover rate in players quitting, but I believe there is evidence to suggest that Jagex is having a more difficult time attracting new players and keeping them, which means not enough new players are joining the game to replace the older players that eventually leave. Second, Stellar Dawn is on the horizon. Would it be safe to say that the initial success of the new MMO will significantly depend on the interest of the Runescape players? I believe that at least some reasoning behind this referendum has been to generate some cheap buzz.



I second most of that. However, I think their "feigning surprise" is best understood as: "Okay, we released a completely poor and flawed poll and we don't have the guts to own up and say we mucked up, so let's act stupendously surprised whilst we release a better one without admitting we mucked up". I don't think Jagex have ever really cracked transparency or truly learnt how to apologise/admit they've mucked up, and this is a prime example of it in my opinion.
Posted Image

Blogs on the free trade/wilderness referendum: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

#37
Ts_Stormrage
[ Display Name History ]

Ts_Stormrage

    A storm is coming...

  • Editorial Panel
  • 3,747 posts
Wow, an actual intelligent debate... Havent had one of those in a while :D

@X3en:
I'm sad to see you did not find my article interesting enough for your entertainment... But I do disagree with you...
While the community indeed seems to be shrinking, I also believe that it is breaking up into smaller, more enclosed communities... People that think alike and/or have the same interests tend to end up hanging out with one another...

But I do not agree with you that the community of today is but a "leftover" of some major catastrophic event... The last one that saw a mass exodus out of RuneScape was when the late '07/early '08 updates happened, and the numbers have since then steadily climbed across the board... Not by much, but climbing they did...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
wildsig3.gif
clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
CLICK IT!


#38
Andregiant
[ Display Name History ]

Andregiant

    Rat Meat

  • Members
  • 31 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Quebec
  • Joined:22 December 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:AndreGiant

Wow, an actual intelligent debate... Havent had one of those in a while :D

@X3en:
I'm sad to see you did not find my article interesting enough for your entertainment... But I do disagree with you...
While the community indeed seems to be shrinking, I also believe that it is breaking up into smaller, more enclosed communities... People that think alike and/or have the same interests tend to end up hanging out with one another...

But I do not agree with you that the community of today is but a "leftover" of some major catastrophic event... The last one that saw a mass exodus out of RuneScape was when the late '07/early '08 updates happened, and the numbers have since then steadily climbed across the board... Not by much, but climbing they did...


Andre the Giant (Gentle Giant)

#39
Bladewing
[ Display Name History ]

Bladewing

    Dragon Slayer

  • Members
  • 6,072 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Minnesota, USA
  • Joined:21 December 2005
  • RuneScape Status:None
  • RSN:Stringcheze
i agree with the first article. runescape's community has changed. it is filled too many holier-than-though players condescending from their ivory towers about how horrible "aspect X" is for the game.

if you played this game for fun you wouldn't worry about what others are doing :thumbup:

#40
Andregiant
[ Display Name History ]

Andregiant

    Rat Meat

  • Members
  • 31 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Quebec
  • Joined:22 December 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:AndreGiant
I have to say, this was one of the most, if not the most, interestating debate since I joined.

All replies were polite, articulate, and to the point. Got my attentiion. Read everything.
I'm not a writer, but sure enjoy reading people that know how.
While I do not agree with everything, all of you made your point, about why, and how you saw it.


We need this every week :)

Thank you guys.

.....Andre.
Andre the Giant (Gentle Giant)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users