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Petition and Fraud? Mistake and Lies? Other? (results on page 4)


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#21
timmmmm83
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They lied AND some of staff are incompetent.

Lying in the past:
After seeing the reaction of players they took away the description of the flagstaff on the site to promote Runefest. Lying afterwards it ever was there.
Same with climbing boots, before this mess occured they said items on accounts couldn't be checked, lying again.

They aren't good in covering up their own mistakes. Honesty is much more appreciated imo, even when you **** up once in a while.

#22
Bloodstain
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People don't blame Jagex for making the GE ridiculously easy to manipulate, they blame players for doing the only logical thing and taking advantage of it. They don't blame Jagex for not being harsh enough about banning bots, they blame players who bot when they know the worst that'll happen is a temp ban and maybe some stat resetting


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#23
green9090
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They pretty clearly lied. I refuse to believe that they're so stupid that they honestly thought the first version would be an accurate judge of anything- it was publicity and a way to demonstrate interest in their game.

Not to say that they aren't incompetent, but in this particular case they were lying on top of that.


Can you prove that?

No, but their story is ridiculous. They just happened to make a "poll" that maximizes the number of votes (and thus perceived interest) at the expense of any sort of objectivity or validity. Either it was an accident and it was fantastically incompetent, or it was a publicity stunt. It really comes down to how stupid you want to believe Jagex is- I'm not prepared to believe that they honestly can't predict what happens when you let everyone vote for everyone else.
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#24
SirIzenhime
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It's a publicity stunt to attract more players.
It's worked marvelously

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#25
Ts_Stormrage
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They didn't lie. The players lied by submitting runescape users that they did not create or own.

This is a really common argument in RS for some reason. People don't blame Jagex for making the GE ridiculously easy to manipulate, they blame players for doing the only logical thing and taking advantage of it. They don't blame Jagex for not being harsh enough about banning bots, they blame players who bot when they know the worst that'll happen is a temp ban and maybe some stat resetting. And now, they don't blame Jagex for encouraging players to vote multiple times by making a vote that allows it, but instead blame the players who did exactly what they'd be expected to do.

The fact is, when you're in charge of controlling or organizing people, it's more often than not your own damn fault if those people don't do what you want. The key is to make what you want them to do be the best course of action- if somebody can profit from doing something you'd rather they didn't (manipulation clans, spam voting), then you need to CHANGE SOMETHING so that it's no longer a smart thing to do (remove GE limits, implement a login on the vote).

In the case of the vote, anyone who thought for half a second about what a player who wants the wilderness back is going to do would realize, oh hey, they're going to write a script to vote over and over. That is Jagex's fault because is was a direct and inescapable result of making a petition in which anyone can vote an infinite number of times. Why blame players for doing exactly what Jagex all but instructed them to do?



This ^

EEspecially when you consider that they ALREADY HAVE the tech to make a proper poll...

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#26
green9090
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It's a publicity stunt to attract more players.
It's worked marvelously

In what way does that not fall into the category of "lie"?
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#27
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A combination of A, B, and C
Jagex
A. told the truth about wanting to know how the masses responed to free trade and old wild but they were
C. Incompetent when they made a bogus poll and then they
B. Lied about their incompetence and put up the resulting cover story
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#28
SirIzenhime
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It's a publicity stunt to attract more players.
It's worked marvelously

In what way does that not fall into the category of "lie"?


I'll admit I barely looked into this matter, the knowledge I have is basically the two polls...one rigged, the other...half fair-ish.
I didn't see them out right "lie" about anything, that's probably because I didn't look into it.

Regardless...it's still a publicity stunt that's working, lies or not.

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#29
Ts_Stormrage
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LOL, jjjon... It's then the question which one you think weighs heaviest...

Also, I editted the first post to encourage people to listen to arguments and possibly change their votes if they change their minds...

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#30
Will H
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The first poll was a publicity stunt, but it was a mighty good one. Think about how many people spread the word about this. The blokes at Jagex definitely weren't incompetent about this, it was the direct opposite, they have cleverly manipulated the public who haven't yet seen through why they didn't put passwords on the first poll. The result? They've managed to grab the attention of pretty much everyone who left in December '07, and made them take another decision on whether to come back to the game when Free Trade and the old Wilderness returns, and a significant amount of them will say 'yes'. It was a masterpiece of a PR move. What people think about this won't matter in the long term, but the subscription numbers will. This second vote then takes away most of the accusation of incompetence and a lack of sense of a fair vote, as well as being able to say "Well, you voted for it" if anything goes slightly awry with the transition, which it's likely to do.

I don't think you could ever say that Jagex lied about anything here either. You couldn't prove it anyway. They simply omitted information from us, at first giving the impression that the first vote was the deciding vote without confirming it, and then revealing a 'Phase 2' and then saying they had it planned all along. They were white lies.

They're devious, and they walked near a very fine line. I'd ask Jagex to not come so close to outright lying in the future, but they'll do it anyway. Businesses always do that kind of thing.

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#31
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I always thought it was kind of stupid to make a petition for something in the game without actually signing into the game with a password.

#32
jjjon123
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LOL, jjjon... It's then the question which one you think weighs heaviest...

Also, I editted the first post to encourage people to listen to arguments and possibly change their votes if they change their minds...


C with a hint of A and a dollop of "D"/B (Publicity stunt/Lie)

:P

Hehe
There is not really a definite line for me all I'm hoping for it to come back.
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#33
All_Is_Great
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So you're trying to convince people that Jagex lied... about putting up the poll to get an idea whether or not to move on to phase 2? And that they only wanted money? They did this to generate revenue, etc?

Of course they did this to generate revenue, that's what a company does.

What's wrong with the way Jagex did this? Since the referendum, accounts must be now logged in to vote yes, no, or indifferent. What's more to complain about? The first poll has no bearing on what the results of the referendum is. And btw, there only needs 3 options, not 4, because free trade and old wilderness is one package, you can't have one without the other.

P.S. I love all the subtle comments you use to make Jagex sound like such [wagon]

Note that you may always change your vote after listening to arguments (this can be done here, unlike at Jagex' poll)...


People don't need to change their mind about this matter. If you read through the 101 pages, it should be clear to you that almost everyone is adamant in their position on this issue.

They didn't expect the fraud would happen on such a massive scale, and therefor after 2 days it was quickly changed to a proper poll...

And then still not where one could select one of 4 options: yes to both Wild and Trade, yes to wild no to trade, no to wild yes to trade, or no to both...


What fraud? That's a really powerful word you're using. The first "poll" isn't even relevant at a time like this, yet you continue to pick on it, while ignoring all the rest of the issue.
The referendum is proper, I don't see anything wrong with it. 3 choices is enough.

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#34
Ts_Stormrage
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I think it's quite relevant how Jagex treats its customers, but thast may be just my opinion...

Just as I posted my opinion, and am asking for other people's opinion... That is all...

I'm not out to make Jagex look like a bunch of tools, they do a pretty damn fine job of that themselves...

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#35
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It's a publicity stunt to attract more players.
It's worked marvelously

QFT. I voted C, though.

So many people have returned including four of my old friends whom I haven't spoken to in almost three years. I don't like how the poll was done, but I am enjoying its effects so far.
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#36
Will H
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I think it's quite relevant how Jagex treats its customers, but thast may be just my opinion...

Just as I posted my opinion, and am asking for other people's opinion... That is all...

I'm not out to make Jagex look like a bunch of tools, they do a pretty damn fine job of that themselves...


If you want it set out straight, this isn't the kind of issue that any multiple choice poll can adequately deal with. They made white lies, they manipulated the masses, but they also did what any forward thinking and intelligent games company would have done.

And then still not where one could select one of 4 options: yes to both Wild and Trade, yes to wild no to trade, no to wild yes to trade, or no to both...


Posted Image They are not issues you can separate. A PK in the old Wilderness rules is identical to a trade whereby one player trades all but x of his/her lowest high alchemy value items to another player directly, and receives nothing in return, where x is his/her item protection value. It is an unbalanced trade. They are one and the same thing.

If I didn't know any better, it would seem that you're looking for an argument where there is none.

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#37
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A combination of A, B, and C
Jagex
A. told the truth about wanting to know how the masses responed to free trade and old wild but they were
C. Incompetent when they made a bogus poll and then they
B. Lied about their incompetence and put up the resulting cover story


Best post in this thread. :thumbup:

In all honesty it really doesn't matter but it seems pretty obvious that Jagex have already decided to make the implementation and the whole poll business was just a publicity stunt to attract members and support. So if you do look at it from that standpoint they are certainly not incompetent because they know how to get exactly what they want from their players.

#38
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Now that I think about it, it's way easier to appear to be incompetent and do mind numbingly stupid things on a regular basis to lower people's expectations than it is to run their particular business model smoothly on its own merits. If they ever did anything "right", people might start getting ideas.

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#39
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I voted that they are telling the truth. Jagex is incompetent, but in this case they definitely knew what they were doing.

All they ran the first poll for was to look at the number. They understand that people would enter in random names. I feel sorry for the people that actually believed Jagex was stupid enough to not predict the fraud.

Jagex had decided they would bring the Wilderness/Free Trade back way before they ran the poll. They knew exactly what results they would get when they ran the poll. They knew that if they ran the poll and then declined to bring it back, it would put a HUGE dent in their reputation. Many, many people not even remotely interested in Runescape already know about the poll, and pulling out would cause an even greater uproar. This was just a thinly veiled attempt to bring in some revenue. The polls are just to increase anticipation and make it seem more 'legitimate' (and apparently that worked considering how many of the Runescape population feel that this was actually a real poll).
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#40
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Just concerning the botting issue, Jagex are either incompetents or liars...take your pick, they can't avoid both accusation.


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