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Adr1an

Tip.it and TWR need a jump start.

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Take a look at this - http://forum.tip.it/topic/270471-tipit-war-rankings/

 

Currently my own clan is #1. Weird thing is we dont feel like #1.

 

Tip.it needs a change. TWR needs a change. Rules should be implemented so that ranks matter. TWR should be made attractive so that more experienced clans want to join. With the return of the old wilderness on the horizon (I believe that it will happen) the CWA - era may very well come to an end.

 

Many of the clans that are against the change were developed within the CWA era. They were not around for old pvp (the clans not the members). The lack of wanting to change will only put TWR into more inactivity. The War list has to be attractive so that ANY clan big or small can join. It also has to be accurate based on warring power AND activity.

 

THE is not the strongest warring clan on the list. Why then are we #1. Why dont more clans fight?

 

Now I have tried my hardest to actually care about TWR and help it grow. I have even done write ups on the possibilities that TWR could do what RAW never was able to do. Adjust and change based on what the majority of the clan world wants. RSC sucks ass. The mods suck. The people on it suck. Why doesnt TIP.IT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS.

 

Adjust TWR rules. Ask other clans to join in. Do better than RSC. Tip.it used to be the place to go and it could be that way again.

 

Over the last couple months the excuses of the CET, Winter break, etc. could be used..... what I want to know is what is the excuse now?

 

Adaptation is the key to success. If tip.it and TWR do not adapt soon they will flounder and sink. Can not even deny that one.

 

So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it?

What would it take for your clan to join TWR?


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It'd take a PvP addition to TWR as most top clans, my own included, display little to no interest in CWA..and that's all the TWR currently has to offer. If a PvP aspect was added to TWR, I can almost guarantee that more clans would join and become active on Tip.it.


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Fasty as of right now the idea I wish to set forth is such.

 

Changing reward points for PKRIs/CWRIs

I was also suggested that we change the way points are awarded for these kind of fights.

here is the suggestion: since PKRI wins are based on Ending Ops, thats what should be considered when giving points. Since CWRI wins are based on kills, thats what points should be based on.

 

So the point addition is based on the difference.

If in a CWRI two clans get 150 and 110 kills, the difference is 40. So the winner would get 100 points + 40, which would be the difference. The loser gets 50 - basic losing points.

Since PvP wins are based on ops, the ops difference counts here. A difference of 30 ops would mean the winner would get 100+30, loser gets 50. Since this war is based on numbers, points could be rewarded accordingly.

 

Of course the full out/matched aspect would be ending opts both pvp or cwa.

 

There is already a bonus for fighting fullouts/pkri's over matched.

 

There is also a bonus for fighting in pvp over cwa.


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You're allowed to war in pvp for TWR, you always have been.

 

I welcome any suggestions though, it does take a while to implement changes, but, contrary, i'm sure, to public opinion; the staff wants the TWR to succeed as much as anyone.

 

The TWR has always aimed to be a list that allows small, organized clans to prosper as much as large pvp clans - and such is the reason why it has even enjoyed the success it has. It doesn't mean we can't make changes, but I'm vehemently opposed to turning it into a RAW like list that only caters to the current number one (not saying that's what you're suggesting). Times change, yes, and change is good - if it's measured and done properly.


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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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Yeah I know that catering to just the top will not help this. It is why RAW failed.

 

I believe with all the ideas that I have set forth for the changes in TWR that if all implemented it can cater to anyone. Yes the small clan could get farther ahead by warring more but also at the same time the stronger clans can as well. With a mixture of these as well as the change in how pkri points are done TWR would cover every possible aspect of warring. Heck you could even add in a bonus for p2p fights if you really want.

 

It is about making TWR possible for any clan, big or small, able to prosper in TWR. Activity will still play a major part.


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The CJ tournament is still going on, and we've had the TICT, followed by Clan Europe's tournament so it's been a busy end to 2010 for clans. When CJ finishes, if we don't see improved activity then actions need to be taken.

 

I see so many clans who are on TWR war each other, but don't set it up as a TWR war. This is the main problem TWR has. My clan is guilty of it too - don't think I'm critisizing all TWR clans here. But why? I honestly have a couple of ideas of why this is happening and how we can fix it, but I think it's better to be discussed between Clan Officials before it's considered by everyone else. The TWR clans have the right activity...they're just not TWR wars. :unsure:

 

As for PVP - it's the main reason I can imagine why top clans don't come. The top clans never cared about RSC because to them the Rankings never reflected the true rankings of clans in the clan world. It does need more encouragement. With the old wilderness coming back, there should be set rules and extra rewards for PVP warring. I even think there should be House Rules for PVP with wildy coming back - once again a discussion officials need to have.

 

We're also forgetting about one thing. There's a LOT of small clans out there who could join. True Ownage was a small, unknown clan when we joined. So was Downfall, Legendz, Envy and I could list more. Most of the old smaller clans have gained some sort of reputation - and the same could be done in the next generation of smaller clans who join TWR. If TWR is looking for activity - surely we have more chance in getting 10 small clans to join rather than 10 big clans.

 

BUT, saying that, the standards would drop and I do agree that RSC is particularly poor because of it's negative atmosphere. Adr1an is right, we should take advantage, but it's difficult to cater to top clans as they have no care in the world (for the most part) about us smaller clans and therefore you can imagine all the complaints about activity prevails, even though taking that away TWR would turn into the same format as RAW and end up in the same place - the graveyard.

 

So yeah, I'd say wait until after CJ (which is why I haven't replied in Conclave) before we jump to conclusions. If I have anything else constructive to say I'll probably bring in up in the Conclave.


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God for once I agreed with Adrian

 

TWR needs to change

 

 

 

So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it? More challenges of course and more in touch with Jagax...

 

What would it take for your clan to join TWR? As for T0, we r already in it... For AA, more Aussie clans with closer timezone.


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I think my clan is on the TWR but we havn't had a TWR fight in foreverrrrr. I know we aren't/weren't active because it really isn't important at all and we'd rather do other things.


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I think my clan is on the TWR but we havn't had a TWR fight in foreverrrrr. I know we aren't/weren't active because it really isn't important at all and we'd rather do other things.

 

Could any changes occur to make it so that CR becomes more active?


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i think its the clans that are in TWR, we need a more options to war.

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i think its the clans that are in TWR, we need a more options to war.

what options do you suggest?


"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

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Theres many clan officials that cba to even check the TWR. This means no declaring on clans at all. I think TWR needs more clans that represent a big challenge so theres competition.


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THE is not the strongest warring clan on the list. Why then are we #1.

 

I don't want to throw mud, but this is mostly the case in the TWR. The strong clans get bored or frustrated because small clans here cannot seem to understand that when you are challenged by a big clan you will loose probably. It was that way when I was helping doing the TWR, and maybe it's because of the rules or the mentality I don't know. It's a thin line, you can make the TWR very easily attractive for big clans, but as long you don't have a few of them it's hard to enforce rules that aren't beneficial for the most clans active on tip.it. But again, I'm not sure if the (clan) staff really wants strong warring clans here since they would bring a lot of traffic (and work) and require a totally different style of modding, which I'm not sure that it suits tip.it these days.


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Of course we want strong warring clans here. The problem is that strong warring clans will only come here if other strong warring clans are here....and they aren't, making a vicious circle of clans not coming here.

 

If you have any ideas, please, enlighten me.

 

How, exactly, do we make the list attractive to large clans? A straight out ranking list didn't work (RAW). An activity based list won't work either as most clans don't war very often, mostly crash nowadays.

 

We also don't want to shaft the small clans that have stuck with tip.it for such a long time.


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i want everyone here. Big, little, small or large.

 

Yes the workload will increase , but with more people, more people around who can mod, more people around who could do work.

 

require a totally different style of modding

Pray tell.


"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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Of course we want strong warring clans here. The problem is that strong warring clans will only come here if other strong warring clans are here....and they aren't, making a vicious circle of clans not coming here.

 

If you have any ideas, please, enlighten me.

 

How, exactly, do we make the list attractive to large clans? A straight out ranking list didn't work (RAW). An activity based list won't work either as most clans don't war very often, mostly crash nowadays.

 

We also don't want to shaft the small clans that have stuck with tip.it for such a long time.

 

I'm not in the position to write down what I think. I havn't been active on tip.it for a long time, and the things I see are based on a few days of browsing these boards. I do have a few things I'm worried about, however I can only judge for example activity based on what I see people do on these boards and if there are not many new topics, that it seems not only the boards are not so active, but also the people. I am however not active on RS anymore, so I have no idea if clans still do full outs and stuff but I do think - as a general rule - that if you look at it from the perspective from a big warring clan you need to offer them a warring list where they can fight without having to cut more then 10% of their memberlist. Maybe some kind of "cluster" fights where 5-6 small clans unite against 1 big clan for bonus points?

 

 

i want everyone here. Big, little, small or large.

 

Yes the workload will increase , but with more people, more people around who can mod, more people around who could do work.

 

require a totally different style of modding

Pray tell.

 

I meant with a different style of modding not that the current style is bad. I know you're one of the thinkers behind the more loose modding style on the clans section, and I really share your ideas about that and think that the clan section has grown a lot on that topic. I just mean that currentely tip it doesn't have the capacity to handle (big) clans. For me the clan moderators are the heart & soul of a clan staff, and currentely you have none. I know Y Guy, Nobody & yourself are technically clan moderators, but I always wondered how people could focus and on being a super moderator and doing all the clan staff work. I'm not implying they should step down, because it's needed that the "bosses" of the clan staff are higher ranked. I'm just saying you need 5-6 clan moderators who exculsivly manage the clan section, who can train the CL's & who basicly run the place here. I always saw super mods & admins more like "oversee-ers" who manage the section but mostly have a more behind the scenes role. However I have no idea if there is the interest & the quality to hire that many clan mods, but if you do hire people I'd just try to find people with more or less influence in the clan world. But again, I don't know if there are many active tip.it members present here who are a member of the big(er) clans.


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If you're worried that myself being a global and joe being a super detracts from our attendance to CD, don't worry - clans have always been our primary responsibility and will continue to be regardless of rank. I mean, I don't think Joe even posts outside clans :lol:

 

I do agree that more active mods would be nice, and we're always looking to expand the team (a reason why we had applications back in the summer, and probably will again at some point).

 

Come on irc if you want to talk more btw :P

 

Thanks for the input everyone as well, I know often it can take us a while to get moving on some suggestion you make, but I've said it once (and I'll say it again) but when you (the community) make the suggestions and take an active interest in seeing CD do well it means a lot more then when we do, and for that reason, we always welcome input and ideas for possible improvements.


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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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you raise alot of valid points Gamerr and I'll admit, i'd like to see our clan staff expand and add more moderators. If a sudden influx of top clans came, we would be severely understaffed. It's a fear of mine and one i'd love to correct, however currently now we can afford to pick who we want, as although we are overworked, we're not understaffed yet. I'd rather be careful in selecting staff to avoid making any rash decisions than just "load up".

 

I am a fan of looser rules on flaming and stuff - I felt tip.it was too restrictive and pushed for it to be more lax - however if the community wants stricter, I can always help to change that :P

 

I can say Joe/Yguy are clan first, rest of forums second.

 

As far as the ranks go - Supermod just means joe can ban and Yguy likes off topic so he can mod in that as well. Both of these guys are heavily dedicated to clans and very focused on making this section better and brighter.


"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

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I think my clan is on the TWR but we havn't had a TWR fight in foreverrrrr. I know we aren't/weren't active because it really isn't important at all and we'd rather do other things.

 

Could any changes occur to make it so that CR becomes more active?

I don't see that happening, with the current clans here there isn't enough competition and just too many CWA fights which we aren't that interested in. If more top clans were to come here and be active then maybe it would be more important to us.


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The whole points system makes it kind of idiotic. The more active you'll be the higher rank you are. I liked RAW when it came down to beating the clan who was marked higher then you to take their place. Now it's just win or lose as much as you can, get a fight for each day and you'll be #1. But hey, I don't really care enough about TWR or RAW (which is gone anyway) to start revamping it. Good luck though and hopefully when it's gotten some facelift more clans will participate in it (especially all the new smaller clans that will be made when the wilderness comes back).


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When the system is more of a hybrid to allow for both small and large clans to participate I will surely be asking multiple clan officials to come give it a try.

 

It is about allowing for PVP and CWA however making pvp options better. About making sure the points system FITS the fight that is going on. There are already bonuses to having pvp fights and full outs.

 

20v20 can not possibly be house rules but matched opts would be better.

 

All styles being the norm will only benefit all clans because people will get used to it. Push clans to be better and more organized and not worse. Can any clan say they have become far worse for adding styles to fights?

 

Rank system based on a hybrid of activity and ranking..... Make it more flowing than RAW but not to the point that its pure activity like it is now. Have it so that of course stronger clans will be higher but if they slack in fighting they can not keep it or rise. Make it so point farming bottom feeders just doesnt get you far ahead and stepping out of your comfort zone and aiming high gets you higher up!

 

Take the best of all the worlds and combine it into 1.

 

Clans that I would hope to come would be Solace, CR (active), TR, Forsaken, etc. Adding simply 5-10 more clans that arent necessarily at the top but are stronger can help bridge the gap to possibly asking top clans to give this a try.


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I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

 

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S


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I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

 

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S

That is somewhat how RAW used to be and it wouldnt work. That only works for 1 style of fighting (back then it was full outs). The thing is there are so many different kinds of fights (CWA/PVP, matched/fullout, returning fights, and p2p/f2p) that system would not really work out well.

 

By giving bonus points for certain things you add more those aspects. Activity will still be key but you can pick and choose.


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problem with bigger clans that come on here, like cr for example, they go and declare on someone but because their size they get forced into rules that arent what they want.

 

Also the clans on here are much smaller and less active so their clan communities are smaller and thus less active on here. If you look at who posts here theres like 30-40 actives, exclude clan leaders and tip.it staff its about 20-30 people.

 

That is why these boards get less interest, get a clans community posting then ull get that clan warring more on here.


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I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

 

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S

That is somewhat how RAW used to be and it wouldnt work. That only works for 1 style of fighting (back then it was full outs). The thing is there are so many different kinds of fights (CWA/PVP, matched/fullout, returning fights, and p2p/f2p) that system would not really work out well.

 

By giving bonus points for certain things you add more those aspects. Activity will still be key but you can pick and choose.

 

For larger clans a ranking list just isn't something that'll work. It has been tried in the past with RAW (which has a more appealing system), but we all know what happened. The point being, what Tip.it has to do is appeal to more mid-sized or smaller clans to participate in the TWR. It's unique as such so that smaller clans are able to compete more freely rather than get slaughtered if it was a RAW-like list which is shown in its success in the past.

 

For trying to get more larger clans to post here more often there has to be more incentives to post here rather than on RSC for example.. The Tip.it Tournament was a step in the right direction, however, it didn't really offer any long-term solutions to the ongoing problem which is the sheer inactivity of Tip.it's clan boards.

 

To clan leaders or clan staff reading this... the best way you can help is by posting topics and replying more often (more notably in the Wars & Run-ins board). For the amount of people who are active here, the number of posts there are nothing more but discouraging. Just remember that if you don't post it yourself, no one else is going to. Activity can only create more activity.

 

Now about rivalries. I remember there were quite a few in the past,and the amount of activity that it brought the boards. But those have mostly died out and further contributed to the stale atmosphere of the clan section. Unfortunately as well those beefs involved people pushing the boundaries which resulted in them being banned. I suppose Tip.it still has to find its balance.

 

I suppose now we can ask ourselves, how far have we really gone? Progress has definitely been made. I remember posting here back in late 2005 having the last active thread being a week or two old. A brighter future is ahead, it just needs the community to help support it by its effort.


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