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Tip.It Times - 16th January 2011


Racheya

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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

 

[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

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2. Spelling and grammar errors can be reported to Racheya by PMing her and they will be fixed promptly. It is not necessary to post them on the discussion topic.

 

3. Off topic posts that do not discuss the content of that week's articles will be removed. This is not the place to discuss the direction of the times, how much you love or hate the times, etc. Off topic posts will be removed.

 

By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

[/hide]

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

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I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].

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First Article: nice synopsis of the events right around the new year. He forgot to mention that apparently what keeps zaros soldiers from attacking you is bonuses.

 

It seems to be about ~200 defense in a certain catagory + overload makes that type of combat unagressive.

 

I managed to get rangers, meleers, and reavers to unagro me with nietz, dhide top and chaps, BSS, D boots, Fury, Sw cape, zerker ring, and Overloads. Pretty good, considering the mages were the ones I wanted to kill.

 

 

Second Article:

 

I agree that the difference between solo and team dungoneering seems unbalanced.

 

I will say though, that unlike most other skills, it is readily apparent when someone is bad at dungoneering. I have been doing floors on 117 lately, mostly with a few friends who are a much lower level then I am at dungeoneering. Usually, I start the team so I just get the ggs right away, and I am always the Keyer.

 

It is astounding the number of leeches or overall bad players on 117. I average about 12 DG levels higher then anyone else on the teams I make, but on 117, it seems that DG level is no barrier to how well you can DG. Strangely enough though, the worst of the DGers on 117 are ~80 DG, and ridiculously proud that they just got their CLS or something. They leeched and hogged food all the way to their first 2mil xp and they don't seem to know any other way to dungeoneer. They also have been doing it so long that the behavior has sunk in, and they can't be convinced it is actually faster to give the keyer/other players some of their BOB full of salves when we are running on 3 web snippers.

 

I found the same phenomenon in Barbarian Assault. I love that Minigame, and whenever I play it, I take the low teams that no one else wants. Any 120s spamming the chat with "Any Here, need another torso, someone take me OMFG" at BA get ignored by me, and I usually find the ~90s who have experiencing BA for the first time. Far easier to teach a new player the right way to play then it is to break the habit of someone who has been doinitwrong for quite a while.

 

/rant

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When the referendum finally came out, along with a validation system, it took players three weeks to attain the magical one million plus votes needed to make the opinions expressed statistically considerable.

 

1 million votes weren't needed to make it statistically considerable, that was just an arbitrary figure Jagex threw out there. I think someone posted before it was around 16k votes needed to make it statistically significant, so to have so many votes anyway in my opinion makes it a huge success on Jagex part and an overwhelmingly positive response for free trade to be brought back.

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i kinda felt it jumped around a ton. but what evah (the first one)

 

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First article:

 

Well the petition and referendum definitely caused some stirring but apart from a bit of a fail on jagex's side and their usual covering of having made a mistake, there wasn't anything bad about that. And to covering up we're sadly used to by now.

 

King of dwarves definitely was not the best of quests, but I still liked it. I don't know where that ridiculous fight came from, and the puzzles weren't perfect either. But the storyline it itself was quite good and I think it's mostly a preparation for the grand finale - and after chosen commander we know that mod john a is good at finales

 

And nex...is simply one of the best updates recently. Finally a boss that needs really high levels(even though i am not high-leveled), cannot be soloed(yet) and does consist of more than "hit and eat"+tanking. I don't see the problem with the armour being degradable - if you can afford it, you can afford the degrading costs anytime. You also missed the fact that high defence bonuses make the zaros kc monsters unaggressive, as well as the fact that getting the key, in comparance to nex is a piece of cake and if you're actually having trouble doing that, you shouldn't even attempt nex.

 

When I have a look at all that, I cannot see how you deem january to be a disappointing month. I just about disagree with almost all of your points :P

 

 

Second article: I actually like that fact that leveling dungeoneering is at first very slow and the xp rates grow a lot over time. I find both the fact to be able to breeze through 60-70 levels in a skill so fast and having such a huge gap that takes ages after 99 rather a joke. Imo, this system is far better.

 

True, teaming up can sometimes be a bit annoying, but in the end it's what makes the skill really fun. I think it's ok that Jagex wants to encourage group playing. And if you really want to solo - hey! you still can, and the xp rates are not *that* bad either.

 

On the last point - of course the skill was hyped up in the q&a's. W/e, it will always be.

 

The only thing that I agree with is that frozen, furnished floors etc. are kind of a waste and it's sad to see them only rushed through. But hey, we need to start somewhere, and it's clear that most of the development time went into the high floors.

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Well I wouldn't call it all disappointing of course. There's a lot of potential to be had with the finale of the Red Axe series and hopefully more people will enjoy fighting Nex later on; I actually like the fact that it isn't another OMG BAWSS RUSH LAWL! But the Wilderness & Free Trade Petition/Referendum/Discussion sort of overshadowed a lot of the updates we had this month, and in an indirect way almost made all the other stuff not so hyped as it should, especially Nex.

 

Heck, I even forgot to write about the $10k a month give away. >.o Not that there is much to write about, but there's not much discussion/to discuss there unfortunately (unless we wanna go "OMG JAMFLEX GIVE $120k OUT DIS YEAR! WERE TEH MONEY$ COME FROM!?!?!?" etc.). :P

 

I guess what I'm really trying to say is just how the community reacted pretty much killed the excitement for some of the updates.

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i want Veldaban to put us in charge of the Red Axe company :)

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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The differences between the petition & the actual vote tells a LOT about the subject. It points out just how much the cheats want it to happen. Are those the people Jagex should be catering to? I don't think so!

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Well I wouldn't call it all disappointing of course. There's a lot of potential to be had with the finale of the Red Axe series and hopefully more people will enjoy fighting Nex later on; I actually like the fact that it isn't another OMG BAWSS RUSH LAWL! But the Wilderness & Free Trade Petition/Referendum/Discussion sort of overshadowed a lot of the updates we had this month, and in an indirect way almost made all the other stuff not so hyped as it should, especially Nex.

 

Heck, I even forgot to write about the $10k a month give away. >.o Not that there is much to write about, but there's not much discussion/to discuss there unfortunately (unless we wanna go "OMG JAMFLEX GIVE $120k OUT DIS YEAR! WERE TEH MONEY$ COME FROM!?!?!?" etc.). :P

 

I guess what I'm really trying to say is just how the community reacted pretty much killed the excitement for some of the updates.

 

Your last sentence kind of exemplified the most striking thing about your article, to me at least - that is, it felt like it didn't have a thesis. You nicely summed up some recent events in Runescape, but you failed to tie them together or draw any sort of conclusion from them. Your ending in particular felt as forced as some of my conclusion paragraphs from school papers I didn't want to write. :P I hate to sound like my former English teachers, but between brainstorming a topic and writing the article you gotta have some outlining beyond just your three main points. :) (I'd talk more about the substance of your article, but there's not much to say because you didn't really present any opinions with your facts; you summarized recent events and that was pretty much it. And there I am not talking about the substance of your article some more, so I'll stop now, heh.)

 

The second article raised some excellent points that I never really thought to consider, mostly because I'm still stuck in the early-ish levels of DG and I can't bring myself to care enough about it to move past them. The rewards look excellent (tome of frost? new prayers? coal bag? YES PLEASE!), but I really can't bring myself to slog through the dungeons to gain XP to get to the point where I can slog through even larger dungeons to gain enough XP and tokens to actually get any of the rewards! I've fallen back on letting Tears of Guthix catch me up a bit, and maybe I'll spend some penguin points on it as well - once I use that (and the occasional dungeon delve) to get up to those higher more profitable levels, maybe it'll be more tolerable for me, though from the looks of this it won't be.

Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape.
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The differences between the petition & the actual vote tells a LOT about the subject. It points out just how much the cheats want it to happen. Are those the people Jagex should be catering to? I don't think so!

Quoted for truth :)

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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Second article: I don't think you can analyze any skill thoroughly and not mention the rewards. The dungeoneering rewards were completely left out, and imo I believe they deserve mention in any criticism or discussion of dungeoneering as a whole.

 

You can talk about how good or bad the skill is in itself, but then there are Chaotics beating out conventional weapons in almost every case. You have the scroll of life, cleansing, and efficiency, which revolutionize skill training. You can even dip into the little things, like coal bags helping f2pers in their smelting.

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The differences between the petition & the actual vote tells a LOT about the subject. It points out just how much the cheats want it to happen. Are those the people Jagex should be catering to? I don't think so!

Quoted for truth :)

ingroup bias

 

try to stay objective

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LOL... Believe whatever you want to tell yourself... My poll shows that only 4 out of 10 people believe Jagex told us the truth over believing they are either incompetent or lying (or both)...

 

1.2M votes in 24 hours or in 3 weeks... Surely it doesn't take 21 times longer to add your password and select your option of choice, rather than just your name, now does it?

 

SURELY the discrepancy in votes MUST be the fact that a lot of people;

1: Lost their password... It takes 3 minutes to get your password back

2: Couldn't be arsed to vote a second time... Yeah why vote when you can actually have a choice of opinion

3: Didn't know there was a second poll... Funny that they did notice the first one without any advertising, and not the second one when it was all over the front page, with emails and even a message when you logged into the game itself

4: Thought that their point was already made with a vote in the petition... You'd think that you'd want to at least match the numbers found in the first poll right? But they didn't... No, 1.2M people 'signed the petition' to support the changes within the first 24 hours (1.6M when it closed), yet only a little over 1.1M people voted yes in the poll

 

I heard all excuses and I countered every single one of them...

 

No, my dear idiot, EVERY single person knows why there were much more votes/sec in the petition, than in the poll... You do not seem to know it...

Maybe you do not want to know it, because you fear that knowing admitting the truth might actually have an impact on what Jagex decides to to in, say, 5 hours from now... Trust me it doesn't, and I fully realise this (see, it's easy)...

 

 

I understand Jagex for screwing up... It is afterall very hard to run a proper poll when you've had the technology on your website for years and years, and have used it in the past (can you smell the sarcasm already?)...

 

I don't understand Jagex for lying about it, nor do I understand the people who will defend these lies at all costs... For some reason they think that, if their desired changes are brought about on the credibility of people willing to commit fraud, the game is somehow different and possibly less enjoyable for them... Well congratulations to you, dear Bladewing, cuz you might actually be one of the good guys...

 

PS: sorry for going somewhat off topic

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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i never contested that the first petition was flawed and that some people abused it - i think it's pretty clear that this was the case.

 

i'm just saying that to disregard that 91% of people still voted yes in the second poll and say "haha some scumbags support it, therefore it should not be considered at all!" is pretty foolish.

 

ps your own poll was flawed because the body of the post and the poll's wording itself favored certain responses. it's hardly objective, and on top of that does not represent the population of runescape players, rather only the population of active tip.it forum, general subforum users.

 

pps - i didn't vote in the second poll because the cost of logging in is not worth the benefit of one more vote supporting my choice

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Compared to the first poll that's a 9 point drop in support already... Oh and the people that ARE discouraged from voting in the 2nd poll, are actually the ones that DIDN't want it... They, like me, saw through this scam, and didn't bother to change Jagex' mind, cuz it was apparently already made up...

 

As for my own poll not being accurate; it shows what I needed to know...

 

As for you not voting a 2nd time around: how stupid will you feel if they decide that "we didn't get the 1.2m supportive votes needed, so no changes, sorry"..? We all know that's not goign to happen, but :)

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
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[hide]LOL... Believe whatever you want to tell yourself... My poll shows that only 4 out of 10 people believe Jagex told us the truth over believing they are either incompetent or lying (or both)...

 

1.2M votes in 24 hours or in 3 weeks... Surely it doesn't take 21 times longer to add your password and select your option of choice, rather than just your name, now does it?

 

SURELY the discrepancy in votes MUST be the fact that a lot of people;

1: Lost their password... It takes 3 minutes to get your password back

2: Couldn't be arsed to vote a second time... Yeah why vote when you can actually have a choice of opinion

3: Didn't know there was a second poll... Funny that they did notice the first one without any advertising, and not the second one when it was all over the front page, with emails and even a message when you logged into the game itself

4: Thought that their point was already made with a vote in the petition... You'd think that you'd want to at least match the numbers found in the first poll right? But they didn't... No, 1.2M people 'signed the petition' to support the changes within the first 24 hours (1.6M when it closed), yet only a little over 1.1M people voted yes in the poll

 

I heard all excuses and I countered every single one of them...

 

No, my dear idiot, EVERY single person knows why there were much more votes/sec in the petition, than in the poll... You do not seem to know it...

Maybe you do not want to know it, because you fear that knowing admitting the truth might actually have an impact on what Jagex decides to to in, say, 5 hours from now... Trust me it doesn't, and I fully realise this (see, it's easy)...

 

 

I understand Jagex for screwing up... It is afterall very hard to run a proper poll when you've had the technology on your website for years and years, and have used it in the past (can you smell the sarcasm already?)...

 

I don't understand Jagex for lying about it, nor do I understand the people who will defend these lies at all costs... For some reason they think that, if their desired changes are brought about on the credibility of people willing to commit fraud, the game is somehow different and possibly less enjoyable for them... Well congratulations to you, dear Bladewing, cuz you might actually be one of the good guys...

 

PS: sorry for going somewhat off topic[/hide]

When did we actually find out they were lying? You may perhaps believe that Jagex lied about this Petition and Referendum, but that view is not shared by many other people. No real proof that your beliefs are true has been discovered. It may seem obvious and logical to you, and at the same time seem far fetched and ridiculous to other people. Political parties are a perfect example of this.

 

So while it is not unusual that you yielded to the baser human instincts and degenerated into mocking and name calling, it is rather hypocritical that you seem to take offense when someone does the same to you.

 

In fact, your post not only goes off topic, but rather seems to be entirely focused on bragging about your own intelligence, and attempting to troll bladewing.

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As for you not voting a 2nd time around: how stupid will you feel if they decide that "we didn't get the 1.2m supportive votes needed, so no changes, sorry"..? We all know that's not goign to happen, but :)

i will not feel stupid, because the probability of the situation arising in which jagex would say "oops we were exactly 1 vote short, if only bladewing had voted yes! :(" is astronomically low. i made the right choice, the cost of me logging in far exceeds the probability of that event occurring multiplied by the cost of not having free trade.

 

corollary time:

 

there is a game you can play. it costs $1 to play. a bag is filled with 9999 white marbles and 1 red marble, and this is player knowledge. the player must choose red or white. a marble is drawn from the bag. if the color the player chose is drawn, the player wins $10.

 

the smartest choice is to choose white - if the marble drawn is red, the player does not feel stupid because he still made the smartest choice.

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@Grin: I "found out" that they were lying when they switched to what they called a referendum from a poll... The language used is distinctly different from what they have used in the past...

 

You sign a petition, and vote in a poll... That's the langiage they have always used, and labelling things differently do not make it seem more intentional to me... Ok, I agree that this is not 100% proof, but even bladewing, the supposed target of my supposed troll, agrees with the premise that the "petition" was a mistake...

 

@wing: no but there may be others like you... *remembers bush v gore*

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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however, by the time i logged on to runescape.com and found there was a new poll, there were already hundreds of thousands of votes and the proportion still went 90-7-3 ish. i already knew that the vote would pass yes, so it's not like there was going to be a close call. with bush v gore in florida, polls before the election suggested that the race would be very close, which would be an extra incentive to vote).

 

also i never said the petition was a mistake, i said it was flawed and no conclusions about what proportion of players support the motion can be drawn from it. the petition was most definitely not a mistake - tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of former players suddenly came back to good ol' runescape.com after not playing.

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They would've returned all the same with a proper poll...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
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==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
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@Grin: I "found out" that they were lying when they switched to what they called a referendum from a poll... The language used is distinctly different from what they have used in the past...

 

You sign a petition, and vote in a poll... That's the langiage they have always used, and labelling things differently do not make it seem more intentional to me... Ok, I agree that this is not 100% proof, but even bladewing, the supposed target of my supposed troll, agrees with the premise that the "petition" was a mistake...

 

@wing: no but there may be others like you... *remembers bush v gore*

 

"You sign a petition, and vote in a poll... That's the language they have always used..."

 

Who is "they"? I cannot recall Jagex ever running a petition before. As such, they would not have always used this language for petitions. Also, if you would like to argue about word usage, how are you going to "sign" a petition online, if you do not use a pen and paper?

 

Claiming that Jagex intended the petition as the actual vote, and lied about it when they discovered it was being falsified is by extension claiming that Jagex listend to their player base and responded in a timely manner.

 

You may as well make the claim that they ran the petition intentionally like this in order to generate publicity. You obviously feel strongly about this issue, enough to write a whole article about it. Chances are, many other people feel just as strongly. This generates controversy, and controversy always receives more press. More press means more people learn about it, which brings more people who had previously left Runescape back, just to figure out what the heck is going on.

 

Neither of these is likely, and the probability that Jagex came up with a flawed plan, and is now following it is far more in line with Jagex's past track record and thus far more likely.

 

As you also said, you have no 100% proof, and I would even argue that you have not "refuted" the arguments that you think you have.

 

Your "refutation" of the 4th reason for the vote discrepancy makes an absolutely massive assumption of the desires of these anonymous voters. Basing a refutation on such a wild guess about what such a large group of people may be feeling does not provide a very firm foundation for your argument.

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Edit: Jagex clearly are giving us a dramatic start to the year ( http://rsvote.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/the-date-is-set/ )

 

Firstly; I am personally of the belief that the "petition" was a muck up and the "referendum" was a fix, even if Jagex didn't admit to this. However, some people attitudes towards this are rather annoying. I also don't understand how a member of the editorial panel is allowed to flame/insult posters when they dissagree with him? Calling the other person an idiot was completely uncalled for.

 

No, my dear idiot, EVERY single person knows why there were much more votes/sec in the petition, than in the poll... You do not seem to know it...

Maybe you do not want to know it, because you fear that knowing admitting the truth might actually have an impact on what Jagex decides to to in, say, 5 hours from now... Trust me it doesn't, and I fully realise this (see, it's easy)...

 

The differences between the petition & the actual vote tells a LOT about the subject. It points out just how much the cheats want it to happen. Are those the people Jagex should be catering to? I don't think so!

Quoted for truth :)

 

Quoted for stupidity:

 

A) Prove that all of those who dishonestly voted in the poll are in game cheats. I voted on 5 accounts of mine in the "petition", and would have voted on all of them if the referendum wasn't a clear yes.

B) Punishing the majority due to the activities of a minority is unreasonable and injust.

C) Can't be bothered to restate all of the arguments others have delivered.

 

In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.

 

P.S. Why must we use... Full stops... All the time... It's slightly annoying and... obscures your message...

yes.png

 

Blogs on the free trade/wilderness referendum: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

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In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.

 

Sound familiar?

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
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In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Jagex made a rubbish voting system, realised they'd mucked up and replaced it. The second one (the referendum) did not engineer a bias in the result. I actually made my own dissaproval of the "petition" clear in the part of my post you quoted (and in other parts of my post), and I have also composed blog entries about it (feel free to read them).

yes.png

 

Blogs on the free trade/wilderness referendum: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

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