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Tip.It Times - 16th January 2011


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#21
Ts_Stormrage
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They would've returned all the same with a proper poll...

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#22
PereGrin
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@Grin: I "found out" that they were lying when they switched to what they called a referendum from a poll... The language used is distinctly different from what they have used in the past...

You sign a petition, and vote in a poll... That's the langiage they have always used, and labelling things differently do not make it seem more intentional to me... Ok, I agree that this is not 100% proof, but even bladewing, the supposed target of my supposed troll, agrees with the premise that the "petition" was a mistake...

@wing: no but there may be others like you... *remembers bush v gore*


"You sign a petition, and vote in a poll... That's the language they have always used..."

Who is "they"? I cannot recall Jagex ever running a petition before. As such, they would not have always used this language for petitions. Also, if you would like to argue about word usage, how are you going to "sign" a petition online, if you do not use a pen and paper?

Claiming that Jagex intended the petition as the actual vote, and lied about it when they discovered it was being falsified is by extension claiming that Jagex listend to their player base and responded in a timely manner.

You may as well make the claim that they ran the petition intentionally like this in order to generate publicity. You obviously feel strongly about this issue, enough to write a whole article about it. Chances are, many other people feel just as strongly. This generates controversy, and controversy always receives more press. More press means more people learn about it, which brings more people who had previously left Runescape back, just to figure out what the heck is going on.

Neither of these is likely, and the probability that Jagex came up with a flawed plan, and is now following it is far more in line with Jagex's past track record and thus far more likely.

As you also said, you have no 100% proof, and I would even argue that you have not "refuted" the arguments that you think you have.

Your "refutation" of the 4th reason for the vote discrepancy makes an absolutely massive assumption of the desires of these anonymous voters. Basing a refutation on such a wild guess about what such a large group of people may be feeling does not provide a very firm foundation for your argument.

#23
Rsvote
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Edit: Jagex clearly are giving us a dramatic start to the year ( http://rsvote.wordpr...he-date-is-set/ )

Firstly; I am personally of the belief that the "petition" was a muck up and the "referendum" was a fix, even if Jagex didn't admit to this. However, some people attitudes towards this are rather annoying. I also don't understand how a member of the editorial panel is allowed to flame/insult posters when they dissagree with him? Calling the other person an idiot was completely uncalled for.

No, my dear idiot, EVERY single person knows why there were much more votes/sec in the petition, than in the poll... You do not seem to know it...
Maybe you do not want to know it, because you fear that knowing admitting the truth might actually have an impact on what Jagex decides to to in, say, 5 hours from now... Trust me it doesn't, and I fully realise this (see, it's easy)...



The differences between the petition & the actual vote tells a LOT about the subject. It points out just how much the cheats want it to happen. Are those the people Jagex should be catering to? I don't think so!

Quoted for truth :)


Quoted for stupidity:

A) Prove that all of those who dishonestly voted in the poll are in game cheats. I voted on 5 accounts of mine in the "petition", and would have voted on all of them if the referendum wasn't a clear yes.
B) Punishing the majority due to the activities of a minority is unreasonable and injust.
C) Can't be bothered to restate all of the arguments others have delivered.

In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.

P.S. Why must we use... Full stops... All the time... It's slightly annoying and... obscures your message...
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#24
Ts_Stormrage
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In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.


Sound familiar?

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
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#25
Rsvote
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In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.


Sound familiar?


Jagex made a rubbish voting system, realised they'd mucked up and replaced it. The second one (the referendum) did not engineer a bias in the result. I actually made my own dissaproval of the "petition" clear in the part of my post you quoted (and in other parts of my post), and I have also composed blog entries about it (feel free to read them).
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#26
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*Throws a bucket of water on all the flames.* Let's just all calm down. You're welcome to express your opinions, but PLEASE DON'T ATTACK EACH OTHER!

#27
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RE - Start it off with a bang

A misnomer if ever there was.

"A few weeks into its tenth year" was the opening statement. It being a little early in the year, I felt it was a little too soon for an adequate analysis of recent updates.
The first reflection regarding the Wildy & Free trade debate was almost a paraphrased account of the previous weeks' tipit times. As such it was pointless and superfluous. This is exemplified by the continuing debate regarding the validity of the vote. Dull and monotonous.
The second reflection regarding the new Red Axe instalment, well thanks for the spoiler. It would appear that the author is not providing a platform for discussing the ongoing storyline, or anything, other than advertising the fact that they have completed the quest.
Fortunately, the third reflection regarding Nex did at least attempt to encourage debate regarding the worth of the rewards. However, as I said befor, it's too soon for any meaningful debate, as the price of the armour will be inflated at the moment, perhaps when it's dropped in a couple of weeks when there's a few more on the market it can be assessed better.
All in all, very disapointing.

RE - Curious case of Dungoeneering

Having never played Dungoeneering, I was interested to read an article discussing this skill. Initially, my reluctance to play was based on a desire to avoid entering into conversation with a group of younger players. I know this is a very prejudiced attitude towards younger players. As I have never met a player older than me*, that means everyone. Sorry. I will play at some point, probably once I have finished this damned Shattered Heart statue. Perhaps Kamykazee would be kind enough to help me, I estimate that as I'm putting all my penguin points on this skill, I'll be around the level 70 mark. Fingers crossed ;)
All in all, I found this second article to be engaging, but it did reinforce my initial prejudices.

*If there are any Tipit Mods out there that can confirm or refute that I'm the oldest 'Scaper on the block, I would be very interested to know.
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#28
Range_This11
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"A few weeks into its tenth year" was the opening statement. It being a little early in the year, I felt it was a little too soon for an adequate analysis of recent updates.

That phrase is used to give a frame of reference for the rest of the article. She's talking more about the amount of "drama" that the updates have caused than the updates themselves.

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#29
Blyaunte
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In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.


Sound familiar?


Jagex made a rubbish voting system, realised they'd mucked up and replaced it. The second one (the referendum) did not engineer a bias in the result. I actually made my own dissaproval of the "petition" clear in the part of my post you quoted (and in other parts of my post), and I have also composed blog entries about it (feel free to read them).


Well - for the sake of argument - how do we truly know that Jagex actually honestly recorded "all" the votes on the second poll? Doesn't it seem just as likely that they already planned on bringing it back, and merely made up a poorly designed "poll" the first time, then covered their tracks and recorded only a small percentage of the "no" vote to skew the results into showing what they wanted?

Secondly, if Jagex wanted a real honest vote, why didn't then have each issue voted on separately?

In so many ways, this reminds me of the 1995 Quebec Referendum question:

Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?.


Yes [] No [] Don't care []

:rolleyes:

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#30
Rsvote
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In regards to Stormrages "poll" (which is about as bad as Jagex's "petition" was): Bladewing hit the nail on the head, and yes your poll probably did tell you what you "wanted" to know because you engineered this result.


Sound familiar?


Jagex made a rubbish voting system, realised they'd mucked up and replaced it. The second one (the referendum) did not engineer a bias in the result. I actually made my own dissaproval of the "petition" clear in the part of my post you quoted (and in other parts of my post), and I have also composed blog entries about it (feel free to read them).


Well - for the sake of argument - how do we truly know that Jagex actually honestly recorded "all" the votes on the second poll? Doesn't it seem just as likely that they already planned on bringing it back, and merely made up a poorly designed "poll" the first time, then covered their tracks and recorded only a small percentage of the "no" vote to skew the results into showing what they wanted?

Yes, they could well have done this and it makes a wonderful conspiracy theory; I myself don't trust Jagex and didn't when they first released the "petition". However, my point that the poll itself didn't engineer a result would still hold true; there was no bias in the actual poll's question/answer.

Secondly, if Jagex wanted a real honest vote, why didn't then have each issue voted on separately?

They offered a package which players could opt for or against. We was voting for whether this package was desirable, not our individual interests in each part of it. I'm not giving my position on this decision (it's rather long and boring) but there's no "dishonesty" in blocking them together.

In so many ways, this reminds me of the 1995 Quebec Referendum question:

Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?.


Yes [] No [] Don't care []

:rolleyes:

Hehehehehe.


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#31
cultjunky
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"A few weeks into its tenth year" was the opening statement. It being a little early in the year, I felt it was a little too soon for an adequate analysis of recent updates.

That phrase is used to give a frame of reference for the rest of the article. She's talking more about the amount of "drama" that the updates have caused than the updates themselves.



I could take on board the idea that the article was in regard to the drama that the updates had caused, had all the updates caused some drama. The new quest installment and Nex have in no way caused any drama, if anything, these updates have been overshadowed by the drama of the wildy update.
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#32
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"A few weeks into its tenth year" was the opening statement. It being a little early in the year, I felt it was a little too soon for an adequate analysis of recent updates.

That phrase is used to give a frame of reference for the rest of the article. She's talking more about the amount of "drama" that the updates have caused than the updates themselves.



I could take on board the idea that the article was in regard to the drama that the updates had caused, had all the updates caused some drama. The new quest installment and Nex have in no way caused any drama, if anything, these updates have been overshadowed by the drama of the wildy update.

And then I respond by saying "drama" is an ambiguous word. Having the most powerful and expensive armor to date being released has definitely stirred the hypothetical pot and caused some drama. You're right about the new quest, though. That doesn't really have a dramatic impact on Runescape.

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#33
PereGrin
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*If there are any Tipit Mods out there that can confirm or refute that I'm the oldest 'Scaper on the block, I would be very interested to know.

Um, if you are talking about the joindate on the Tip.it Forums, then: http://forum.tip.it/...ers&module=list Just hit advanced filters, and then at the bottom of the page, select sort by joindate in ascending order.

ForsakenMage Was apparently the 3rd TIF account created, and he is still active, having posted just before the post I quoted.

And if you are talking about Runescape, I know for a fact that Ashley still plays, and she was the 13th account created on RS I believe. (or 9th account, possibly)

@Blyaunte

You can't have Wilderness without Free Trade, or vice versa. Bringing only one back removes every reason for the removal of the other, rendering it unnecessary and ineffective.

#34
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*If there are any Tipit Mods out there that can confirm or refute that I'm the oldest 'Scaper on the block, I would be very interested to know.

Um, if you are talking about the joindate on the Tip.it Forums, then: http://forum.tip.it/...ers&module=list Just hit advanced filters, and then at the bottom of the page, select sort by joindate in ascending order.

ForsakenMage Was apparently the 3rd TIF account created, and he is still active, having posted just before the post I quoted.

And if you are talking about Runescape, I know for a fact that Ashley still plays, and she was the 13th account created on RS I believe. (or 9th account, possibly)



I've got absolutely no interest in length of period playing, being on the forum, etc. That's just the equivalent of buying a car with a long...nevermind. If you check my profile, it gives my age. I'd don't believe that the advanced search options offer the option of searching by age, to be fair, if they do, they shouldn't. But I know giving a birthdate is a requirement of registration. So I'm interested in trying to find a player who was really born before the real me, rather than their characters age.

Hope that makes things clearer
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#35
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*If there are any Tipit Mods out there that can confirm or refute that I'm the oldest 'Scaper on the block, I would be very interested to know.

Um, if you are talking about the joindate on the Tip.it Forums, then: http://forum.tip.it/...ers&module=list Just hit advanced filters, and then at the bottom of the page, select sort by joindate in ascending order.

ForsakenMage Was apparently the 3rd TIF account created, and he is still active, having posted just before the post I quoted.

And if you are talking about Runescape, I know for a fact that Ashley still plays, and she was the 13th account created on RS I believe. (or 9th account, possibly)



I've got absolutely no interest in length of period playing, being on the forum, etc. That's just the equivalent of buying a car with a long...nevermind. If you check my profile, it gives my age. I'd don't believe that the advanced search options offer the option of searching by age, to be fair, if they do, they shouldn't. But I know giving a birthdate is a requirement of registration. So I'm interested in trying to find a player who was really born before the real me, rather than their characters age.

Hope that makes things clearer


You're only 41. I'm sure there's plenty.

EDIT: I believe my friend made a forum account here a few years ago, and she's 43/44.
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#36
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LOL... Believe whatever you want to tell yourself... My poll shows that only 4 out of 10 people believe Jagex told us the truth over believing they are either incompetent or lying (or both)...


That poll was a little flawed as everyone who voted option C) would also have fallen into category A) or category B) depending on if they felt Jagex lied or told the truth.
I actually voted C) but A) could equally apply to me.
I don't think they lied - but the implementation and the communication surrounding that first interest gauging vote meant it was clearly flawed in more than one way.
Maybe the poll told you what you needed to know, hence I didn't debate it in your actual poll thread, but once you start trying to use it to back up other points it's liable to come under more scrutiny.

#37
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I didn't like either article very much, this week. That being said, though, neither was poor. I felt that the first had some grammar issues that made it distracting. (The second had a few, too, but they were manageable.)

The first article was a fairly decent summary, but I felt that points like

Their Latin-based names told of their powers, i.e. smoke, shadow, blood, and ice. Even the new armor names hinted of their power ("Torva" meaning savage, "Pernix" meaning nimble or swift, and "Virtus" meaning strength, courage, excellence, and goodness). These were some of the rare instances players can read something in a different language that isn't a translation of the game itself and is not a game-based language.

had very little value. As someone who has studied Latin for years, I do enjoy coming across it in every-day life, but it doesn't make the game, itself, any different. It's not like the Corporeal (from corpis, corporis, n.) Beast's name made it more appear powerful to the average player =p. The fact that "Nex" (death, murder) was left out in the article surprised me, too. Apart from my grammar rant, (sorry!) I felt that the article gave me little insight past that of the Knowledge Base; it felt more like rephrased, embellished ideas found on the RS homepage rather than original thought. Overall though, it wasn't bad =). (Hey, I read the whole thing, right?)

The second article was strictly a summary, to me. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it keeps things very factual and less insightful than I'd like them to be. Although the parts about themes and experience rates were valid, I disagree about Dungeoneering being alone in its "never the same twice" aspect. Slayer is definitely similar, and other skills can be, too, if you train them in certain ways. In response to these paragraphs,

Despite this and the fact that it has been awhile since the skill has been ‘complete’, I still have that feeling I had before we had a clear picture of it. My views on it are still mixed, the same as before all the batches came out. This just doesn’t sound as exciting and thrilling as it was being made out to be back in the Q&A’s from 2009.
Whatever the case may be, as with any skill, Dungeoneering has both supporters and critics. Beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder, and perhaps this is the only true part where the skill flunks – in not being the skill that would appeal to all, but I suppose that is just wishful thinking.

I felt that the author should suggest something in order to improve the state of current events. I was looking for that opinion throughout... Some sort of insight as to where things should go from here would have concluded the piece more strongly.

Sorry for the critical responses... I did read both articles to the end, so they weren't really "bad"... but I would have liked to have seen a little extra!
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#38
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well the only thing about dungeoneering is after the excitement of a new theme moved on it got progressively worse to find a team

its hard to get started on the skill if not started first week...

my advice is always have a friend with you in dungeoneering then thiers always someone that knows what they are doing.

#39
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The 2nd Article means a lot to me. I'm an avid fan of Dungeoneering, but I do agree that Dungeoneering begins to become a joke. I also feel the XP rates are bit unfair. I'm one of those players that don't have a set playing time, I'll often put in a 10hr RS day, but then not play for an entire week, or I'll play like 20mins a day, and It would be nice to be able to solo a medium sized dungeon but get decent XP? Also, imo the skill is waaaaaay to fast, just a giant grind for many maxed players, which I felt the whole presence of Dungeoneering was supposed to be the anti-grind feeling. I think its safe to assume that 70% of the people with 120 Dungeoneering have gotten at least 50M+ xp in a single month, half the way to 120. I got 99 Dungeoneering back before occult came out, and I had a lot more fun playing Dungeoneering. Nowadays if you don't complete a Dungeon in under 20 mins, which I think averaging 20mins is an exaggeration, unless you have a permanent team, your considered a noob. I think it would be nice if DG xp never got so fast after the new floors, so the higher level DG community wouldn't see DG as a grind. If DG was maybe 80k/hr it would put a lot of hardcore grinders off, and the would avoid the skill. Also, c1s existed back at 35 prestige but its a very failed concept, where designing those floors almost become a waste of time, although I heard f1 on 60 prestige is 77k, so people just love grinding for some reason. IMO 77k is a great floor compared to the 30-50k/floor back at f35 prestige. But this is my opinion and I'm just very anti-grinding.


Capes in order: Firemaking - Cooking - Construction - 99 Dungeoneering
- 120 Dungeoneering - Quest - Strength - Prayer - Herblore - Constitution
- Attack - Defence - Ranged - Runecrafting - Magic - Fletching - Mining

- Farming - Smithing - Slayer - Woodcutting - Summoning - Thieving - Hunter

- Fishing - Agility - Crafting - Divination - Max - Completionist

0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0101


#40
Blyaunte
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@Blyaunte

You can't have Wilderness without Free Trade, or vice versa. Bringing only one back removes every reason for the removal of the other, rendering it unnecessary and ineffective.


How do you reckon that one? :unsure:

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