Tip.It Times - 16th January 2011

[Blyaunte]

You're argument is flawed because you make irrational and untrue claims. My post contains no circular reasoning.

 

Your implication that they were not removed for the same reasons without backing up that statement is also a mistake. I wonder if you were actually around at that time? They were removed for exactly the same reasons. Anyone paying attention during this time can affirm this.

 

Also, you are the one commiting the logical fallacy by asking me to provide proof. You wish to change the status quo, but you have yet to actually provide a reason why it should be changed.

 

You also commit the Appeal to Probability Fallacy by continuing to claim that Jagex rigged the vote.

 

You also commit the Argument from Fallacy.

 

In addition, your posts seem to be themed with the Is-Ought Problem.

 

Making the claim that what I say is untrue does not refute it. Your belief that I am wrong does not equate to the falsehood of my argument. Continually claiming I am wrong without backing your claims up with logic and proof merely renders your posts unsubstantive and repetitive. (e.g. continually saying "But you're wrong." is not a valid proof of your position)

 

However, because your posts are themed with the Is-Ought Problem, I believe that there is a very good chance you are merely a troll.

 

Just for the record, I considered pointing out the fallaciousness of his arguments too.

lol. I only did it because he tried to use his "knowledge" of fallacies to escape from responding to me.

 

"She" and "her" ... I'm female. :P

 

You're attempting to argue that, because the Wildy and Free Trade were eliminated at the same time, then they MUST be inter-dependent. It's already been clearly demonstrated by LCool and others that the two aspects are not inter-dependent. You can have one without the other. :shame:

 

Jagex produces polls every week with multiple selections and yet they are oddly unable and unwilling to do so in this circumstance? Why?

 

It is abundantly clear that this has been planned for a while yet the actual production and presentation has been entirely shoddy, half-assed and half-baked. Why?

 

All that seems to matter is that you and people like you are happy about it. It appeases so many people, apprarently, that it is being blindly accepted and remains unquestioned. Why is that? Why isn't anyone asking "why now"?

 

Obviously Jagex has neither the willingness or the ability to stop the rampant cheating being conducted within the game. Once the Wildy and Free Trade come back, players on Runescape will only become even more dishonest. Why would Jagex do this?

 

Is this move going to make an improvement on the quality of the Runescape community?

 

When offered the choice of drinking the Kool Aid or ask questions first I always ask questions.

 

Why don't you? I'm curious ...

[Rsvote]

You're argument is flawed because you make irrational and untrue claims. My post contains no circular reasoning.

 

Your implication that they were not removed for the same reasons without backing up that statement is also a mistake. I wonder if you were actually around at that time? They were removed for exactly the same reasons. Anyone paying attention during this time can affirm this.

 

Also, you are the one commiting the logical fallacy by asking me to provide proof. You wish to change the status quo, but you have yet to actually provide a reason why it should be changed.

 

You also commit the Appeal to Probability Fallacy by continuing to claim that Jagex rigged the vote.

 

You also commit the Argument from Fallacy.

 

In addition, your posts seem to be themed with the Is-Ought Problem.

 

Making the claim that what I say is untrue does not refute it. Your belief that I am wrong does not equate to the falsehood of my argument. Continually claiming I am wrong without backing your claims up with logic and proof merely renders your posts unsubstantive and repetitive. (e.g. continually saying "But you're wrong." is not a valid proof of your position)

 

However, because your posts are themed with the Is-Ought Problem, I believe that there is a very good chance you are merely a troll.

 

Just for the record, I considered pointing out the fallaciousness of his arguments too.

lol. I only did it because he tried to use his "knowledge" of fallacies to escape from responding to me.

 

"She" and "her" ... I'm female. :P <--- Sorry.

 

You're attempting to argue that, because the Wildy and Free Trade were eliminated at the same time, then they MUST be inter-dependent. It's already been clearly demonstrated by LCool and others that the two aspects are not inter-dependent. You can have one without the other. :shame: <--- Can't be bothered to reply to this.

 

Jagex produces polls every week with multiple selections and yet they are oddly unable and unwilling to do so in this circumstance? Why? <--- Read my earlier post in reply to you if you genuinely can't understand this decision, also note that there is a significant difference on the impact of this referendum and the weekly polls.

 

It is abundantly clear that this has been planned for a while yet the actual production and presentation has been entirely shoddy, half-assed and half-baked. Why? <--- Read my blogs.

 

All that seems to matter is that you and people like you are happy about it. It appeases so many people, apprarently, that it is being blindly accepted and remains unquestioned. Why is that? Why isn't anyone asking "why now"? <--- Read multiple posts I've made on this subject.

 

Obviously Jagex has neither the willingness or the ability to stop the rampant cheating being conducted within the game. Once the Wildy and Free Trade come back, players on Runescape will only become even more dishonest. Why would Jagex do this? <--- Clause 1: They do lack the ability, as the current scenario within the game illustrates quite clearly. RWTing is considerably worse now than what it was pre ge. Clause 2: You have no evidence for this; I personally would refute it, taking away free trade did more harm than good.

 

Is this move going to make an improvement on the quality of the Runescape community? <--- Yes. Read my earlier post in reply to you.

 

When offered the choice of drinking the Kool Aid or ask questions first I always ask questions. <--- And don't listen when people offer their answers. You keep restating the same points without any regard for what others have said. It's fine if you dissagree, but don't suggest people haven't questioned something when they have indisputably done so.

 

Why don't you? I'm curious ... <--- If you haven't got the message by now, there's absolutely no hope for you.

 

Do read my comments in the quotation above this time, as you've clearly missed the point in my previous replies.

 

I'll spell it out for you: Yes I am very happy about the idea of free trade comming back, but the idea that because of this have not "asked questions" or that I'm not querying their motives is fundamentally flawed and evidentially disproven by my conduct on this thread, other threads and on my personal blog on the subject. I can't speak on behalf of the other person you've quoted, but I think it's abundantly clear that he/she has also questioned recent events.

[PereGrin]

Do read my comments in the quotation above this time, as you've clearly missed the point in my previous replies.

 

I'll spell it out for you: Yes I am very happy about the idea of free trade comming back, but the idea that because of this have not "asked questions" or that I'm not querying their motives is fundamentally flawed and evidentially disproven by my conduct on this thread, other threads and on my personal blog on the subject. I can't speak on behalf of the other person you've quoted, but I think it's abundantly clear that he/she has also questioned recent events.

 

You speak the truth. I actually took the time to come up with a coherent argument for my point of view rather then claiming that opposing views were invalid simply because they were not in agreement with mine.

 

Also, RWT included those people practicing credit card fraud. Both members and nonmembers worlds had bot accounts clogging the yew trees. It is far easier to use stolen credit cards/fake credit cards to pay for these accounts. Even if the account gets banned after a few months of botting yew trees or other moneymakers, you still get enough yew logs out of it to sell to people and then sell your gold to your paying customer. You don't even have to worry about running out of names for these accounts as there are 4.87x10^18 ( :shock: ) names possible on Runescape.

 

Even supposing that creating an account took 30 seconds, and you were creating 100million accounts (vastly vastly exaggerated) each time, it would still take 46,363.8 years to use all the names.

[Rsvote]

Do read my comments in the quotation above this time, as you've clearly missed the point in my previous replies.

 

I'll spell it out for you: Yes I am very happy about the idea of free trade comming back, but the idea that because of this have not "asked questions" or that I'm not querying their motives is fundamentally flawed and evidentially disproven by my conduct on this thread, other threads and on my personal blog on the subject. I can't speak on behalf of the other person you've quoted, but I think it's abundantly clear that he/she has also questioned recent events.

 

You speak the truth. I actually took the time to come up with a coherent argument for my point of view rather then claiming that opposing views were invalid simply because they were not in agreement with mine.

 

Also, RWT included those people practicing credit card fraud. Both members and nonmembers worlds had bot accounts clogging the yew trees. It is far easier to use stolen credit cards/fake credit cards to pay for these accounts. Even if the account gets banned after a few months of botting yew trees or other moneymakers, you still get enough yew logs out of it to sell to people and then sell your gold to your paying customer. You don't even have to worry about running out of names for these accounts as there are 4.87x10^18 ( :shock: ) names possible on Runescape.

 

Even supposing that creating an account took 30 seconds, and you were creating 100million accounts (vastly vastly exaggerated) each time, it would still take 46,363.8 years to use all the names.

 

RWT is also directly facilitated by the GE system, through clan manipulations.

 

Some examples:

1. Paying for clans ranks (some clans sell even the lowest ranks for £10 each)

2. Paying for someone to sell your junk.

3. "Buying in on a manipulation": where you pay a "leader" who instructs you on what to buy long before the manipulation, to then (if not scammed) reap the profit of the merch in full spring or (if you're scammed) for the item to never actually be merched.

4. Clan leaders raising "starter" accounts (training them to a reasonable level and gradually securing a high cash store due to manipulations). <--- Note that GE/trade limits did absolutely nothing to stop the selling of accounts.

 

I've never believed the majority should have been punished so much due to the minority of rule breakers, but for them to be punished for the measures to actually not work is an even greater insult.

[greecl]

@TS_Stormrage:

 

Obviously, the first poll was a bit of a misfire. An absolute failure. But it did fulfill its stated purpose, which was merely to gauge interest in the old wildy and free trade. And as you keep going on about how it's so terrible that there is such a difference in the poll and the actual vote, i feel i must address this as well. When people first saw that they could possibly bring back the old wildy and free trade, OF COURSE they voted multiple times; after all, if Jagex had wanted it not to be that way, they would have required a login to vote. And as it did not affect the final outcome, it is inconsequential how many times people voted.

[Rsvote]

@TS_Stormrage:

 

Obviously, the first poll was a bit of a misfire. An absolute failure. But it did fulfill its stated purpose, which was merely to gauge interest in the old wildy and free trade. And as you keep going on about how it's so terrible that there is such a difference in the poll and the actual vote, i feel i must address this as well. When people first saw that they could possibly bring back the old wildy and free trade, OF COURSE they voted multiple times; after all, if Jagex had wanted it not to be that way, they would have required a login to vote. And as it did not affect the final outcome, it is inconsequential how many times people voted.

 

The problem being that that wasn't it's "stated purpose" until AFTER it had been removed. Jagex made a flawed poll, they fixed it; they should have come clean and told everyone they mucked up.

 

Outside of that, everything you've said is fundamentally correct.

 

EDIT: http://rsvote.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/the-reasons-for-not-splitting-the-vote/ splitting the vote blog.

[helring]

While I wouldn't say Wildy and Free Trade are completely interdependent, the old wildy is completely dependant on there being free trade. A major part of the old wilderness was that when you killed someone, you got what they had on them not counting the safed items not this random item drop cabbage and maybe an item of theirs. If theirs no free trade then you can't really give all items dropped on death or it kind of defeats the purpose. As far as free trade without the wilderness, it's possible but why bother keeping the wilderness out if free trade comes back, they only removed it in the first place so that there wasn't an easy end run around new trade limits.

[Rsvote]

Following the hot debates in this thread and others, I did indeed compose a blog on the vote being split, as it's an issue of controversy which has contributed to starting the year with a bang: http://rsvote.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/the-reasons-for-not-splitting-the-vote/