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821 replies to this topic

#21
Nadril
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I do not believe there is substantial enough evidence of devine intervention for me to personally believe a god exists, but I do not deny how other people's lives have been enriched as a result of this belief, however fallacious I personally think that belief is.

So long as religious belief doesn't infringe on my rights, each to their own.


I partially agree with you. One question though..

Were do those rights come from if not (for this example) God? Just some food for thought.


Common sense? Survival Instinct? Laws?

If you really need a God telling you "don't do this or you go to HELL" to not do bad things than you really need to reevaluate yourself as a person. Anyways laws, generally, are fairly common sense for the wellbeing of people. A country could not run if people could just murder others, or steal.

#22
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Were do those rights come from if not (for this example) God? Just some food for thought.

Realistically, my fists. Humans set up their own rights, which really are just limits of their temper.
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#23
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I do not believe there is substantial enough evidence of devine intervention for me to personally believe a god exists, but I do not deny how other people's lives have been enriched as a result of this belief, however fallacious I personally think that belief is.

So long as religious belief doesn't infringe on my rights, each to their own.


I partially agree with you. One question though..

Were do those rights come from if not (for this example) God? Just some food for thought.


Common sense? Survival Instinct? Laws?

If you really need a God telling you "don't do this or you go to HELL" to not do bad things than you really need to reevaluate yourself as a person. Anyways laws, generally, are fairly common sense for the wellbeing of people. A country could not run if people could just murder others, or steal.


God is a man made concept.

 

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#24
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I'm a Roman Catholic, at several points in my life I have had trouble believing the "dogma" of the Church until I read the reasoning behind it. The more I learn about faith and understand, the more beautiful and mysterious it becomes, which is someone paradoxical if you think about it.

The way people look at religion is sort of like math, actually. For someone to have beliefs, there have to be established "axioms" - say G0 is that God exists, G1 is that God created everything, and so on. People that can't accept that will never be able to understand different parts of religion, or the conclusions drawn from them.

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#25
Nadril
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God is a man made concept.


Uh... yeah? Duh?

#26
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I agree with you guys for the most part, but what makes "man" think that X is right and Y is wrong? What makes up the difference between the two? Is it just, logic? If so, does that make logic our "god" then?

Just throwing ideas out there.

#27
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I agree with you guys for the most part, but what makes "man" think that X is right and Y is wrong?

If it hurts his interests.
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#28
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It's interesting how people seem to conflate religion, faith and theology as one in the same. Not to get into semantics, but they're very distinct and I tend to think a lot of miscommunication between people, in terms of the beliefs, are derrida-ved (hehe pun) from not expressing them separately.
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#29
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OP, I suggest you just make a poll.
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#30
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to be honest. i hate religion, but i love christ

wat

what makes "man" think that X is right and Y is wrong?

"The Bible should be one sheet of paper, and on that sheet of paper it should say: "Try not to be a [bleep]."" - Jim Jeffries

The burden of proof is on the religious to provide evidence for a creator-god. The only reason most religious people can come up with for believing in a higher power is, "It seems nice." But just because an idea seems nice doesn't make it at all true. "What's the point of life if there's no god?" There isn't one. All meaning is man-made; life is a blank canvas on which to paint our own meaning.
I'm Atheist, and I'd probably go so far as to call myself anti-theist. I care about the truth, not because it's comforting or the idea seems nice, but because it's the truth. Because it's real.

And may I also assert this: No-one really believes that there is a god. That's right, no-one. If you really believed that there is an eternal heaven waiting for you after you died, you would do everything in your power to not sin, and to follow all of the Old Testament laws. But, I see nobody doing those things today. Christians often say that the Old Testament laws no longer apply, because of Jesus' death. May I provide evidence to the contrary: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB).
The reason you don't waste your life on living according to the vicious OT laws is that deep down, you know this is the only life you're going to get.
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#31
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I agree with you guys for the most part, but what makes "man" think that X is right and Y is wrong? What makes up the difference between the two? Is it just, logic? If so, does that make logic our "god" then?

Just throwing ideas out there.


It's partly logic, it's partly just human interests. Like I've said before, it is logical to have rules against killing and theft. Also morally speaking I really do think most human's are empathetic enough not to want to cause harm to other people.

#32
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to be honest. i hate religion, but i love christ

wat

You could accept the teachings of Christ (Or broader, the tenets of a religion) without accepting the belief behind it. You probably also have atheists/agnostics that are part of a religious group as well, in the same way. It isn't an all-or-nothing issue.
Reasons may include the sense of community or the fact that even without faith the religion still offers a philosophy.

#33
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Religion itself isn't a big problem. In fact I know quite a number of religious people who live healthy, happy lives.

I'm an Atheist myself, but I'm not one to completely dismantle the possibility. I believe that "God" is a man-made concept made to explain phenomena which we couldn't explain previously (and can't fully explain today) or the ideal society. Other cultures in the past (Sumer, Egypt, Greece, Rome...) all had their own ideas of this. In my opinion, it's just as likely as any of the others considering the lack of conclusive evidence. A major portion of these religions included an 'afterlife', because naturally the brain doesn't know what death is like. No one knows really, so obviously an afterlife is easy to assume since living is all we know. I am only further pushed away because of corruption in its past, and many problems associated (eg. Holy Wars).

Don't assume I'm against religion, because I'm not. I just have my own reasons to not believe. If you believe in a higher power, then good for you. There's no doubt that many scriptures depict values that should be respected.

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#34
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I'm atheist. I try not to hate on religious people, but, well, it doesn't work. I'm not too good at it.

I've earned the title of most atheist in my group of mates at school.

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#35
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to be honest. i hate religion, but i love christ

wat

You could accept the teachings of Christ (Or broader, the tenets of a religion) without accepting the belief behind it. You probably also have atheists/agnostics that are part of a religious group as well, in the same way. It isn't an all-or-nothing issue.
Reasons may include the sense of community or the fact that even without faith the religion still offers a philosophy.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

While you're thinking about that one, I have another problem. I would like to sell my sister into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? She's not the best with manners, but you could train her.

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Samoans, but not Maoris. Can you clarify? Why can't I own a Maori?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I call the police?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contact lenses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? Can the Brisbane Lions?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I agree, let's all follow the teachings of Christ! They are moral and just! After all, Jesus and the Old Testament god are one and the same. Trinity, remember?
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#36
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I don't think Jesus would agree with half of whats in the bible.
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#37
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You mean you're surprised that laws written for a desert-dwelling culture thousands of years ago are going to conflict with your modern Australian morals? Or, you know, the fact that the Bible isn't limited to Leviticus and Exodus?

Every time someone brings up that dissonance, they always quote from Leviticus. No context, historical or literary, is necessary, if course... </sarcasm>

I do hate arguing with antitheists. It's like atheism's answer to religious zealots.

#38
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I think of christianity as an outdated part philosophy part superstition, that a select few have been using as a tool for their own means for thousands of years.

Many of these stories in the bible itself have outdated morals laws and science along with contradictions.

The fact that the stories were hand picked from a larger group (by a committee) were the result of a thousand year old game of chinese whispers just makes it even more unreliable and flawed.

Religion itself doesn't bother me, but I have a low opinion of fundamentalists, and a lower opinion of those who use religion to take advantage of others.

#39
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You mean you're surprised that laws written for a desert-dwelling culture thousands of years ago are going to conflict with your modern Australian morals? Or, you know, the fact that the Bible isn't limited to Leviticus and Exodus?

Every time someone brings up that dissonance, they always quote from Leviticus. No context, historical or literary, is necessary, if course... </sarcasm>

I do hate arguing with antitheists. It's like atheism's answer to religious zealots.


Dunno if you know this, but there's a lot of hate and killing and brutality in the OT. I've never been able to understand why a loving, caring, all powerful God would order the Israelites to do things like that.
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#40
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Just because somebody claims to do something in the name of god, that doesn't mean they are.




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