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L2Ski
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My point is that if you think that all assumptions are equally respectable, then it would be equally respectable for you to think that million-dollar-bills will rain from the sky when I shoot you in the head with a gun. Both predictions, "death" and "money rain", require you to make assumptions. Since both scenarios require assumptions, then by your logic, it would be equally respectable to believe in either scenario.

I never claimed that "all assumptions are equally respectable," because some assumptions can be proved to be incorrect. The assumptions that can't be proved or disproved are equally respectable, however.

 

If I hold a gun to your head and ask you "Do you want me to pull the trigger?" What is your response? Go ahead, disprove the money rain theory. Neither the money rain theory or the theory where you get shot and die are provable or disprovable.

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99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Then sometimes I get that feeling that it doesn't even matter. Religion, no religion, god or no god, facts or no facts. All these pointless debates about a pointless topic. Sometimes its just nice to say "[bleep] it, it doesn't matter" :)

99 Hunter - November 1st, 2008

99 Cooking -July 22nd, 2009

99 Firemaking - July 29th, 2010

99 Fletching - December 30th, 2010

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Man! I was gone for a day and a whole 3 new pages to read.. Keep it up! I am enjoying plus benefitting from reading all of your guys' arguments and debates.

 

I saw someone say how religion cannot be disproved with science and philosophy cannot be disproved with science, and vise-versa. This I must say is probably the most wise (for lack of a better word) way to explain why augments like these tend to per say "circulate."

 

I don't have any questions to through at yall, but I might be back on later to check in and see if I can think of anything.

 

Keep it up!

 

 

 

NOTE: Remember you guys, try to be polite and professional with each other and also try to understand each others views before trying to disprove them.

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I found a really good image that sums up my opinion on the topic, but I know I'll get raged at if I post it lol.

If it makes you feel better, send it to me and I'll post it. :mrgreen:

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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YKAqE.jpg

 

I apologize if it's inappropriate. But I feel this discussion needs a bit of levity in the form of penis humor.

 

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree. haha. I'm not try to "show it off in public" in anyway shape or form, I'm just trying to see what other people think/view life and religion. It's more for growth and learning than really anything else. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, because they may or may not be right. I just want to know what other people think.

 

I sincerely apologize if I have done anything beyond this. ^^

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YKAqE.jpg

 

I apologize if it's inappropriate. But I feel this discussion needs a bit of levity in the form of penis humor.

 

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree. haha. I'm not try to "show it off in public" in anyway shape or form, I'm just trying to see what other people think/view life and religion. It's more for growth and learning than really anything else. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, because they may or may not be right. I just want to know what other people think.

 

I sincerely apologize if I have done anything beyond this. ^^

I don't think he was targeting you L2ski :P He was just addressing religion as a whole.

99 Hunter - November 1st, 2008

99 Cooking -July 22nd, 2009

99 Firemaking - July 29th, 2010

99 Fletching - December 30th, 2010

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Yeah, I have no problem with debating it or this thread, I just have never seen the point. Mostly the image was because I thought it was funny and I had been considering making a similar analogy when I ran across it.

15cbz0y.jpg
[bleep] the law, they can eat my dick that's word to Pimp

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Yeah, I have no problem with debating it or this thread, I just have never seen the point. Mostly the image was because I thought it was funny and I had been considering making a similar analogy when I ran across it.

I think that can be applied to a wide array of topics... politics, drugs, sex.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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I would apply it to all of those. Although I think political debate is important.

You don't want to just whip it out haphazardly though... which is what the image suggests :mrgreen:

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Reading through this thread again, there still have been no valid arguments for the existence of a god or gods, or a valid argument for the need of religion. Sure, there are REASONS to believe in a higher power; such as "I'm a single mother with three kids living on welfare benefits and all I can hope for is that my children are safe; therefore I will believe in a protector-god." This kind of argument is fine with me as long as it's not pushed on other people. Religion is a crutch; and we shouldn't kick it out from under people. We must teach people how to walk independently.

 

Furthermore, the aforementioned reasoning for believing in a higher power does absolutely nothing in validating the existence of such a being. It's a comforting thought, but is by no means true. I will admit that even I WISH that there is a god. I would like it if we were divinely created, but there's simply no evidence to suggest that. I care about the truth, whether or not it's comforting to me. I'm going to die in about 80 years, and that'll be it. There's going to be nothing for me after that. While I don't exactly like that idea, all the evidence we have suggests that it's the case. And because of that knowledge, I'm able to make more use of the time I have being alive knowing that it's the only life I'll get.

 

And if sees_all1 is STILL using that "but science isn't proven!HURR!" argument, I'll say it again: Just because science isn't proven doesn't mean you are. You're distracting everyone from the point.

The theory of gravity is much, MUCH more solidly grounded than the theory of god.

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Why does it even matter if you make use of the time? You'll die anyway, and all those accomplishments and memories will be absolutely worthless to you :lol:

99 Hunter - November 1st, 2008

99 Cooking -July 22nd, 2009

99 Firemaking - July 29th, 2010

99 Fletching - December 30th, 2010

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And if sees_all1 is STILL using that "but science isn't proven!HURR!" argument, I'll say it again: Just because science isn't proven doesn't mean you are. You're distracting everyone from the point.

The theory of gravity is much, MUCH more solidly grounded than the theory of god.

Would you care to repeat, in your own words, the point I was trying to make? I feel that you may have overlooked it, and that would be a real shame.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Reading through this thread again, there still have been no valid arguments for the existence of a god or gods, or a valid argument for the need of religion. Sure, there are REASONS to believe in a higher power; such as "I'm a single mother with three kids living on welfare benefits and all I can hope for is that my children are safe; therefore I will believe in a protector-god." This kind of argument is fine with me as long as it's not pushed on other people. Religion is a crutch; and we shouldn't kick it out from under people. We must teach people how to walk independently.

 

Furthermore, the aforementioned reasoning for believing in a higher power does absolutely nothing in validating the existence of such a being. It's a comforting thought, but is by no means true. I will admit that even I WISH that there is a god. I would like it if we were divinely created, but there's simply no evidence to suggest that. I care about the truth, whether or not it's comforting to me. I'm going to die in about 80 years, and that'll be it. There's going to be nothing for me after that. While I don't exactly like that idea, all the evidence we have suggests that it's the case. And because of that knowledge, I'm able to make more use of the time I have being alive knowing that it's the only life I'll get.

 

And if sees_all1 is STILL using that "but science isn't proven!HURR!" argument, I'll say it again: Just because science isn't proven doesn't mean you are. You're distracting everyone from the point.

The theory of gravity is much, MUCH more solidly grounded than the theory of god.

 

Take out the deity and religion is philosophy.

 

You keep saying that there is no evidence. If there were evidence for a deity then it wouldn't be a faith.

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Reading through this thread again, there still have been no valid arguments for the existence of a god or gods, or a valid argument for the need of religion. Sure, there are REASONS to believe in a higher power; such as "I'm a single mother with three kids living on welfare benefits and all I can hope for is that my children are safe; therefore I will believe in a protector-god." This kind of argument is fine with me as long as it's not pushed on other people. Religion is a crutch; and we shouldn't kick it out from under people. We must teach people how to walk independently.

 

Furthermore, the aforementioned reasoning for believing in a higher power does absolutely nothing in validating the existence of such a being. It's a comforting thought, but is by no means true. I will admit that even I WISH that there is a god. I would like it if we were divinely created, but there's simply no evidence to suggest that. I care about the truth, whether or not it's comforting to me. I'm going to die in about 80 years, and that'll be it. There's going to be nothing for me after that. While I don't exactly like that idea, all the evidence we have suggests that it's the case. And because of that knowledge, I'm able to make more use of the time I have being alive knowing that it's the only life I'll get.

 

And if sees_all1 is STILL using that "but science isn't proven!HURR!" argument, I'll say it again: Just because science isn't proven doesn't mean you are. You're distracting everyone from the point.

The theory of gravity is much, MUCH more solidly grounded than the theory of god.

 

Take out the deity and religion is philosophy.

 

You keep saying that there is no evidence. If there were evidence for a deity then it wouldn't be a faith.

But why have faith? And why have have faith in one particular god, when there are so many gods?

There is no reason to choose one god over another when they all have the same probability of existence.

 

The Christian god is a "jealous"(jealousy; a petty human emotion, which certainly shouldn't be the characteristic of an all-powerful god. Who, after all, is so childish and petty that he would send you to a place of eternal damnation if you won't be his cheerleader?) god. If you are a Hindu, you most likely will not get into the Christian heaven.

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But why have faith? And why have have faith in one particular god, when there are so many gods?

There is no reason to choose one god over another when they all have the same probability of existence.

 

The Christian god is a "jealous"(jealousy; a petty human emotion, which certainly shouldn't be the characteristic of an all-powerful god. Who, after all, is so childish and petty that he would send you to a place of eternal damnation if you won't be his cheerleader?) god. If you are a Hindu, you most likely will not get into the Christian heaven.

 

Because they chose a particular one. If not because their parents raised them into it, then probably because it's the biggest religion in their part of the world. The resulting unlikelihood of their deity existing is nothing when you add in the fact that religion is man made. Does it matter?

 

I don't get why you're taking the bible so literally for the sake of ripping it apart. It's a philosophy mixed in with cultural rules written down after a few thousand years of chinese whispers. The nature of all the spooky superstitious stuff and outdated social rules added in means it's easy to pick apart.

 

I agree with you that there is most likely no god, and if there is then it's most likely nothing like any religion describes. But it's not like blindly worshiping something with no purpose. Take out the outdated morals and fundamentalist stuff and it's philosophy and spirituality. Is that so bad? It will make some people better, and some people worse, but it's not our job to play nanny.

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The Christian god is a "jealous"(jealousy; a petty human emotion, which certainly shouldn't be the characteristic of an all-powerful god. Who, after all, is so childish and petty that he would send you to a place of eternal damnation if you won't be his cheerleader?) god. If you are a Hindu, you most likely will not get into the Christian heaven.

First of all, can you please show some intelligence and capitalize the "G" in "God" when you're referring to the Judeo-Christian God? You capitalize the G because God is a proper noun, and by repeatedly making this mistake you (inadvertently?) lose credibility.

 

Second of all, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that there are three types of baptism - baptism by sacrament (All Christians fall under this category), baptism by desire (wanting to lead a good and moral life - other religious beliefs fall under this category), and baptism by blood (martyrdom, being killed for beliefs of a just cause, not necessarily religious).

 

Third of all, the part of being a "jealous" God relates to the First Commandment - which is why Christians and Jews aren't supposed to worship false idols.

 

Please, get your facts straight before you go spouting off a bunch of bull.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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First of all, can you please show some intelligence and capitalize the "G" in "God" when you're referring to the Judeo-Christian God? You capitalize the G because God is a proper noun, and by repeatedly making this mistake you (inadvertently?) lose credibility.

No. I am referring to the Christian god as one of many non-existent gods. If I ever simply called the Christian god, "god" then I apologise as it was not my intent. However, I make sure to refer to it as "the Christian god" and not "Yahweh" or "Adonai" which I will indeed capitalise.

 

Second of all, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that there are three types of baptism - baptism by sacrament (All Christians fall under this category), baptism by desire (wanting to lead a good and moral life - other religious beliefs fall under this category), and baptism by blood (martyrdom, being killed for beliefs of a just cause, not necessarily religious).
So what? What are you trying to say? Just because the Catholic church has these doctrines doesn't mean other religions/churches do. And where did they get the idea from?

 

Third of all, the part of being a "jealous" God relates to the First Commandment - which is why Christians and Jews aren't supposed to worship false idols.
Exodus 20:5 - "5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me," so isn't that what I just said? He claims to be a jealous god.

 

Please, get your facts straight before you go spouting off a bunch of bull.
I honestly think you're trolling.

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IRC Nick: Hiroki | 99 Agility | Max Quest Points | 138 Combat

Bandos drops: 20 Hilt | 22 Chestplate | 21 Tassets | 14 Boots

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First of all, can you please show some intelligence and capitalize the "G" in "God" when you're referring to the Judeo-Christian God? You capitalize the G because God is a proper noun, and by repeatedly making this mistake you (inadvertently?) lose credibility.

No. I am referring to the Christian god as one of many non-existent gods. If I ever simply called the Christian god, "god" then I apologise as it was not my intent. However, I make sure to refer to it as "the Christian god" and not "Yahweh" or "Adonai" which I will indeed capitalise.

Right, because you didn't muck it here:

Who, after all, is so childish and petty that he would send you to a place of eternal damnation if you won't be his cheerleader

 

Second of all, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that there are three types of baptism - baptism by sacrament (All Christians fall under this category), baptism by desire (wanting to lead a good and moral life - other religious beliefs fall under this category), and baptism by blood (martyrdom, being killed for beliefs of a just cause, not necessarily religious).
So what? What are you trying to say? Just because the Catholic church has these doctrines doesn't mean other religions/churches do. And where did they get the idea from?

You specifically pointed out Christians, and the majority population of Christians are Catholic. Catholics believe in three types of baptisms, so when you said that Christians believe that other religions most likely go to hell, you were misinformed.

 

 

Third of all, the part of being a "jealous" God relates to the First Commandment - which is why Christians and Jews aren't supposed to worship false idols.
Exodus 20:5 - "5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me," so isn't that what I just said? He claims to be a jealous god.

This is what I said, the word jealous pertains to the First Commandment. "Jealousy" definitely is a human emotion, but how else are people to understand the nature of God if they can't relate?

If God told everyone, "You shall worship no idols," then people think "That's a stupid rule, why?" When God tells everyone that He won't like it because He's jealous and He'll punish you, your children, and generations to come, people won't be so keen to break that rule.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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First of all, can you please show some intelligence and capitalize the "G" in "God" when you're referring to the Judeo-Christian God? You capitalize the G because God is a proper noun, and by repeatedly making this mistake you (inadvertently?) lose credibility.

No. I am referring to the Christian god as one of many non-existent gods. If I ever simply called the Christian god, "god" then I apologise as it was not my intent. However, I make sure to refer to it as "the Christian god" and not "Yahweh" or "Adonai" which I will indeed capitalise.

Right, because you didn't muck it here:

Who, after all, is so childish and petty that he would send you to a place of eternal damnation if you won't be his cheerleader

Are you freaking kidding me? I said that wasn't my intention and that I apologise if I did that. This is why I can't take you seriously.

 

Second of all, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that there are three types of baptism - baptism by sacrament (All Christians fall under this category), baptism by desire (wanting to lead a good and moral life - other religious beliefs fall under this category), and baptism by blood (martyrdom, being killed for beliefs of a just cause, not necessarily religious).
So what? What are you trying to say? Just because the Catholic church has these doctrines doesn't mean other religions/churches do. And where did they get the idea from?

You specifically pointed out Christians, and the majority population of Christians are Catholic. Catholics believe in three types of baptisms, so when you said that Christians believe that other religions most likely go to hell, you were misinformed.

Read it again. Where did they get the idea from? Certainly not the Bible.

 

Third of all, the part of being a "jealous" God relates to the First Commandment - which is why Christians and Jews aren't supposed to worship false idols.
Exodus 20:5 - "5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me," so isn't that what I just said? He claims to be a jealous god.

This is what I said, the word jealous pertains to the First Commandment. "Jealousy" definitely is a human emotion, but how else are people to understand the nature of God if they can't relate?

If God told everyone, "You shall worship no idols," then people think "That's a stupid rule, why?" When God tells everyone that He won't like it because He's jealous and He'll punish you, your children, and generations to come, people won't be so keen to break that rule.

:wall:

"Don't eat the fruit from this tree!"

"Why not?"

"Because you don't love me if you do!"

"Weirdo...."

 

"Cut off your foreskin."

"WTF WHY"

"Just do it lol"

"WTF why did you give me one in the first place?"

"STFU lol"

 

"I'm going to give you extremely sensitive genitalia within reach of highly dexterous hands."

"Cool!"

"Don't touch it."

"WTF"

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IRC Nick: Hiroki | 99 Agility | Max Quest Points | 138 Combat

Bandos drops: 20 Hilt | 22 Chestplate | 21 Tassets | 14 Boots

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