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Dungeoneering's Impact on the Community at Large


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#21
Low C
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High levels don't want to waste time teaching people how to train, it's much easier and faster to just have clans/worlds with level requirements.

I've found 13 who have and will. Still accepting applications for more.

I think Bunyip and co. set up a teaching thing a couple of months back via the clans board. I'm sure he visits this board so perhaps he could confirm how that's going or whether it even existed at all.

Some brutal questions haven't been addressed, yet. Unfortunately, combat level matters in dungeoneering. As does prior experience. Would accepting level 3s w/DG1 be a good idea? Isn't it inevitable that some form of level snobbery has to exist?

RuneScape isn't a game that caters to what this particular community would call a 'casual gamer'. DG is no exception to that, in fact I'd argue the opposite.

They have all joined my group and are leaders, they didn't have enough time and resources to teach the masses. We hope to solve this by making ALOT of people leaders who are knowledgeable and experienced.


Dungeoneering has been a great introduction to team-work and a sense of community.

Yeah, it also multitplied the elitist communitie's ego by 10.

Touche'. Although it is sort of backwards to assume this since we are going out of our way to help those who aren't efficient. We are trying to promote a sense of community and team work while maintaining fast experience rates. If you want to take your time with this skill I'm sure I could send you a few directions to find some teams that fulfill that for you.


So I ask you tip.it, would you rather bang your head against a brick wall while dealing with 60+ minute floors or would you like to help your fellow scaper by giving him/her a sense of community which is limited to those willing to learn how to gain fast and efficient xp. I invoke you to please express your concerns and discuss.


I see this as putting a band-aid on a severed limb. The root of the problem is not the fact that players are now separated by those who get fast xp, and those who don't, but fact you now HAVE to set your goal as fast xp (and be knowledgeable in it) in order to get a team.

Players like myself who like to do dungeons for fun and not grind xp or tokens find it very difficult to find a team. Not only do the "pro teams" not want me because I don't rush floors, but the "normal" teams don't me anymore because I don't rush floors. To me it appears that everyone is focused on the destination part of the skill, rather than the journey.

So what about the people that play it for fun and not and don't want "to learn how to gain fast and efficient xp"? This is a growing problem effecting both groups, so I see it as more of an issue than just "new players can't get teams because they are less experienced at rushing".

For a lot of us, we find it extremely fun to fly through a large dungeon in 25-35 minutes and gain massive amounts of experience. We only accept people who rush the way we do because it is the best way to learn. No one wants to work on Dungeoneering for x amount of hours when you can do it in y.

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#22
Ginger_Warrior
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20 minutes over lunch doesn't achieve anything major, when we're talking about a game where spending hundreds and hundreds of hours just to max out one skill, let alone all the others and let alone the six skills needed to max out melee combat stats, is perfectly normal.

This is not a casual game. The idea of doing a dungeon in RuneScape for a bit of quick fun, in the same way you would go on YouTube or Facebook or even XBL for a Halo match or two, and still expect to enjoy everything the game has to offer is folly.

#23
jettrider
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I spent my time with bad teams just like everyone else. I was just able to minimize it by playing at the right times.

The difference was that I realized the direction the skill was heading and made as much progress as I could over the summer of 2010. The time to go through levels 70-90 was when the elite players were under 120/200m exp.

My mistake was not going for 120 dungeoneering immediately. I need ~72m more experience, and that's going to be a lot harder if I can't find teams consistently (3bo is on the verge of inactivity). Still, since my priority is get level 99 in all skills, I don't really care if I get 120 or not.

Any revival of dungeoneering is going to have to come from a few possible Jagex interventions:
-A system to find teams based on players' rankings of each other rather than simply dungeoneering level. (mentioned as in the works for all minigames)
-A boost to soloing experience (this may be the only option in the future)
-Continuous small updates that temporarily revive interest

2496 Completionist


#24
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Dungeoneering has been a great introduction to team-work and a sense of community.

Yeah, it also multitplied the elitist communitie's ego by 10.


I couldn't agree more.

#25
lotmein2
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I'd join a tip.it dungeoneering clan.

#26
TheAncient
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Dungeoneering has been a great introduction to team-work and a sense of community.

Yeah, it also multitplied the elitist communitie's ego by 10.


I couldn't agree more.


Not really, it's just more obvious who lacks common sense and who doesn't.

Anyway, the resources to learn DG properly are all here. If you want to learn to dung well, as long as you put some effort into finding good guides or good mentors it isn't hard. And really - DG is NOT that hard if you aren't keying.

As long as you listen to the keyer, are willing to put down your ego, have some self control - with a good keyer, even sub 25's is very possible.
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#27
SirIzenhime
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Dungeoneering has been a great introduction to team-work and a sense of community.

Yeah, it also multitplied the elitist communitie's ego by 10.


I couldn't agree more.


Not really, it's just more obvious who lacks common sense and who doesn't.

Anyway, the resources to learn DG properly are all here. If you want to learn to dung well, as long as you put some effort into finding good guides or good mentors it isn't hard. And really - DG is NOT that hard if you aren't keying.

As long as you listen to the keyer, are willing to put down your ego, have some self control - with a good keyer, even sub 25's is very possible.


Kind of sucks though when those "mentors" are elitists who give up on you after one mess up.
I agree with crossed and Star....but I also agree with you ancient.

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#28
Crossed_Body
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Not really, it's just more obvious who lacks common sense and who doesn't.

Anyway, the resources to learn DG properly are all here. If you want to learn to dung well, as long as you put some effort into finding good guides or good mentors it isn't hard. And really - DG is NOT that hard if you aren't keying.

As long as you listen to the keyer, are willing to put down your ego, have some self control - with a good keyer, even sub 25's is very possible.


Yes, I'm sure a guy with lvl40 dungeoneering will get an awesome "mentor", especially on w117 and w148. Moreso if he is under 100 combat!

Surely low combat and low lever dungeoneers are widely accepted in the dungeoneering community!


If you're a low level, these are your possible outcomes:
If you have friends, you can beg one of them to do your low level floors with you. ie: rely on charity
If you don't have friends, soloing is better exp than the average w117 game. And by better exp, I mean ridiculously low exp.





Jagex just needs to boost dungeoneering solo exp. Nothing more, nothing less. A skill stops being balanced when you have to rely on other people for proper exp.
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#29
Low C
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Crossed, we're hoping to solve that. Cheeesy one of our admins has been doing floors as low as f28 larges which most high level dungeoneers skip. We will devote our time to helping those willing to learn.

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#30
Grimy_Bunyip
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Kind of sucks though when those "mentors" are elitists who give up on you after one mess up.
I agree with crossed and Star....but I also agree with you ancient.

there's a difference between mistakes like.
forgetting to drop a group gatestone, or dying in a ramokee room.
those are mistakes that happen due to like, lack of experience conditioning.
Those are fine.

Mistakes that we will not forgive are as follows:
Hording the food and not sharing. Indicates personal insecurity.
Takes too much drama to convince the player otherwise.

Selfishness. Making the team wait 5 minutes so you can get a farm run done.
Once again, too much drama and player to convince the player otherwise.

Lack of communication. How are we supposed to teach you if you don't talk to us?

General stupidity. Average player takes 15 mins to learn safespotting and trampling mechanics.
And most of that time is the instructor figuring out how to explain it.
It's pretty easy to pick up.
But for some players, they just don't get it.
If you can't figure something like that. I have no patience to teach you anything else less trivial.

You haven't dungeoneered with us, so
I dont mind teaching dungeoneering.
But I do NOT play RS to correct other player's psychological problems.

I will never turn down a quick learner though, even if they're only lvl 70 dungeoneering.
I have plenty of high lvl DGers on my black list for just being stupid though.
I mean sure, I'm elitist.
But I'm not skill lvl elitist.
I don't see a problem between discriminating over personality.
I mean clearly you anti-elitists discriminate over personality too.
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#31
Bladewing
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discrimination is only bad if you are discriminating for something people have no control over

discriminating by race et al. - :thumbdown:
discriminating by qualifications - :thumbup:

#32
TheAncient
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discrimination is only bad if you are discriminating for something people have no control over

discriminating by race et al. - :thumbdown:
discriminating by qualifications - :thumbup:


stupid is a demographic tho[/troll]
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#33
SirIzenhime
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Kind of sucks though when those "mentors" are elitists who give up on you after one mess up.
I agree with crossed and Star....but I also agree with you ancient.

there's a difference between mistakes like.
forgetting to drop a group gatestone, or dying in a ramokee room.
those are mistakes that happen due to like, lack of experience conditioning.
Those are fine.

Mistakes that we will not forgive are as follows:
Hording the food and not sharing. Indicates personal insecurity.
Takes too much drama to convince the player otherwise.

Selfishness. Making the team wait 5 minutes so you can get a farm run done.
Once again, too much drama and player to convince the player otherwise.

Lack of communication. How are we supposed to teach you if you don't talk to us?

General stupidity. Average player takes 15 mins to learn safespotting and trampling mechanics.
And most of that time is the instructor figuring out how to explain it.
It's pretty easy to pick up.
But for some players, they just don't get it.
If you can't figure something like that. I have no patience to teach you anything else less trivial.

You haven't dungeoneered with us, so
I dont mind teaching dungeoneering.
But I do NOT play RS to correct other player's psychological problems.

I will never turn down a quick learner though, even if they're only lvl 70 dungeoneering.
I have plenty of high lvl DGers on my black list for just being stupid though.
I mean sure, I'm elitist.
But I'm not skill lvl elitist.
I don't see a problem between discriminating over personality.
I mean clearly you anti-elitists discriminate over personality too.


except I was actually talking about the non-phychological mistakes. I wasn't directing the comment towards anyone in particular, so don't take it personally...as it wasn't towards you. There ARE elitest scumbags out there who will kick players for making the most simple and harmless mistakes. Just because you don't personally, doesn't mean they don't exist.
I WAS NOT directing the comment towards anyone here...especially those who made that dungeon sweeper clan thing.

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#34
demby123
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Will any of these clans support sub 100cb players who lack hoods?
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#35
Grimy_Bunyip
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except I was actually talking about the non-phychological mistakes. I wasn't directing the comment towards anyone in particular, so don't take it personally...as it wasn't towards you. There ARE elitest scumbags out there who will kick players for making the most simple and harmless mistakes. Just because you don't personally, doesn't mean they don't exist.
I WAS NOT directing the comment towards anyone here...especially those who made that dungeon sweeper clan thing.

We don't kick people for non-psychological mistakes.
You've never dged with us.
Not that we would considering you think of us as elitist scumbags.

The only reason you make that comment is out of your own prejudice.

Will any of these clans support sub 100cb players who lack hoods?

I have personally keyed for hoodless players before, to great success (sub 25 min floors on occasion).
Obtaurian was actually hoodless when we were training him, and he's one of the leaders of Dungeonsweep now.
As long as you personally are open and quick to learn, there should be no problem.

Granted SOME players in dungeonsweep might discriminate against you.
I don't think many of the leaders/keyers would.

And honestly, if Jagex just made effigies buyable for say 30k-60k tokens.
That would revive dungeoneering permanently.
It would make dungeoneering the best way to skill any skill.
It'd be really OP.
But it'd fit the lore and would solve the problem.
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#36
Michael
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Will any of these clans support sub 100cb players who lack hoods?


I don't know about sub 100, but being unhooded can only be solved by getting in dungeons, but both of those problems are at the keyer and whether they will accept you or not.

#37
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Crossed, we're hoping to solve that. Cheeesy one of our admins has been doing floors as low as f28 larges which most high level dungeoneers skip. We will devote our time to helping those willing to learn.

I'll do floors with anyone as long as they actually want to learn how to dungeon properly.
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#38
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Do you guys have an irc channel?

#39
SirIzenhime
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except I was actually talking about the non-phychological mistakes. I wasn't directing the comment towards anyone in particular, so don't take it personally...as it wasn't towards you. There ARE elitest scumbags out there who will kick players for making the most simple and harmless mistakes. Just because you don't personally, doesn't mean they don't exist.
I WAS NOT directing the comment towards anyone here...especially those who made that dungeon sweeper clan thing.

We don't kick people for non-psychological mistakes.
You've never dged with us.
Not that we would considering you think of us as elitist scumbags.

The only reason you make that comment is out of your own prejudice.


*sigh*....read all of it please...I was not directing it towards you...or Low...or ancient...or any of the other "elitists" on this forum. There ARE people that kick for the smallest mistakes, I have seen it, I have experienced it, I am not making that comment out of prejudice, I am making it out of experience. I DO NOT think "YOU" are elitist Scumbag. I do however think you are unable to read a full post now..... :mellow:
I wouldn't dg with you either, because I don't need to, I have a group I dung with. It has nothing to do with elitism in your case.

(seriously, this forum is getting worse and worse at reading....)

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#40
Nostar
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I support.

If the clan chat gets popular enough this will be great.

Btw i haven't dunged with you guys yet cause i'm getting alot of vital skills up atm, which would help me alot on overall and dung.
Il be back to dung in a couple of weeks maybe, with the willingnes to become a pro keyer and why not get a rank ! ^^
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