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Dungeoneering's Impact on the Community at Large


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#81
TheAncient
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There is nothing wrong with stupidity


FTFY

God i feel sorry for whoever manages to get stuck in a dungeon with you

Anyway, ot: i'd say it's a kind of step-function in terms of correlation. below 90ish you get the people who dung only for chaotics, and theyre usually really bad. above 100ish you get the people who dung for fun and in general are more willing to learn. it's hard to make a set cutoff point but i think a 100-105 cutoff for pro dung clans is perfectly reasonable, just because they want to ensure that the majority of members are good.

for a learning cc, i can understand a lower requirement. and that's fine. it doesnt take 100 dg to dg well.
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#82
AlexRose
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FTFY

God i feel sorry for whoever manages to get stuck in a dungeon with you


Oh, be nice Ancient. There's nothing wrong with deciding that speed isn't your main priority when Dungeoneering.


Anyway, ot: i'd say it's a kind of step-function in terms of correlation. below 90ish you get the people who dung only for chaotics, and theyre usually really bad. above 100ish you get the people who dung for fun and in general are more willing to learn. it's hard to make a set cutoff point but i think a 100-105 cutoff for pro dung clans is perfectly reasonable, just because they want to ensure that the majority of members are good.

for a learning cc, i can understand a lower requirement. and that's fine. it doesnt take 100 dg to dg well.


That generalization is assuming, of course, a player has been more or less been playing consistently for the past 10 or so months and has discovered how much he likes or dislikes dungeoneering (I initially did not like Dungeoneering; it took me till about level 50 before it grew on me).

#83
SirIzenhime
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There is nothing wrong with 60 minute dungeons.


=D>

theres also nothing wrong with powerslaying using your fist


He is right though, there is nothing wrong with 60 minute dungeons. Just depend on how you like to do it.
However...you can't "powerslay" with your fists, you need a rapier, turmoil, cannon, ext and steel titan to do that silly :rolleyes:

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#84
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And honestly, if Jagex just made effigies buyable for say 30k-60k tokens.
That would revive dungeoneering permanently.
It would make dungeoneering the best way to skill any skill.
It'd be really OP.
But it'd fit the lore and would solve the problem.

Omg, this.
You can already get effigies on average once per 65 mins, so it wouldn't be OP. Just an actual enjoyable way to get them.
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#85
SirTommy2005
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I had to quit for awhile when dungeonneer came out, a month into the skill all the hardcore players had chaotic longs or rapiers, which made finding teams for bosses harder, not to mention soloing.
Turns out, money can't get you the best things, which was true prior to the dung skill.

#86
Youmu
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I agree, something really needs to be done with w117/w148/w7.

The best solution is to fix the problem at hand, not ignore it. This is why I am still willing to do large floors with randoms for about 1 hour each...

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#87
yuriqiu
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Some people like taking longer in dungeons by making armor, chopping trees, fishing fish and killing every monster. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't see people judging others by making pures (which in a way is also inefficient) or making solo accounts where they have 0 interaction with other players. Hell there are even players that refuse to get p2p just because of some sense of grandeur or preference whatever reason those players choose to stay f2p when training in p2p would save both time and effort. It doesn't mean they're wrong or that they're freaks, it just means they're different than me. They have their own community and I have mine. Its no different with dungeoneering. There are players that enjoys doing slow dungeons and have friends just to participate in that, and there are dungers like me who refuse to accept a teammate who can't finish a floor in 20-30 minutes at least. All this says is that I'm different than them.

Basically what I'm trying to get to here is that people are different. If you don't like rushing floors, you made a choice not to rush and you have to live with the results of your choice (smaller community of people who're willing to dung with you). If you like to rush floors, you also have to live with the fact that there are less and less "pro" dungers to dung with and it'll be harder to get teams. It's not being noob/obnoxious/elitist. It's just people being different. This honestly makes the game more interesting otherwise we'd all be maxxed total levels with the same total xp because we are all the same player.
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#88
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Some people like taking longer in dungeons by making armor, chopping trees, fishing fish and killing every monster. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't see people judging others by making pures (which in a way is also inefficient) or making solo accounts where they have 0 interaction with other players. Hell there are even players that refuse to get p2p just because of some sense of grandeur or preference whatever reason those players choose to stay f2p when training in p2p would save both time and effort. It doesn't mean they're wrong or that they're freaks, it just means they're different than me. They have their own community and I have mine. Its no different with dungeoneering. There are players that enjoys doing slow dungeons and have friends just to participate in that, and there are dungers like me who refuse to accept a teammate who can't finish a floor in 20-30 minutes at least. All this says is that I'm different than them.

Basically what I'm trying to get to here is that people are different. If you don't like rushing floors, you made a choice not to rush and you have to live with the results of your choice (smaller community of people who're willing to dung with you). If you like to rush floors, you also have to live with the fact that there are less and less "pro" dungers to dung with and it'll be harder to get teams. It's not being noob/obnoxious/elitist. It's just people being different. This honestly makes the game more interesting otherwise we'd all be maxxed total levels with the same total xp because we are all the same player.

I'd agree if the community was actually well segregated between slow and rush DGers.
Because then slow and rush DGers could both have the respective type of fun they want.

But it's not. Pretty much everybody who dungeoneers will encounter dozens of other players who are infinitely worse than themselves.
And these encounters are frustrating because they waste people's time.
There would be nothing wrong if this did not happen, but it does.

Dungeoneering is a situation where, most players, will be forced to play with players they are not familiar with.

It's just common courtesy to not waste other people's time in these scenarios.
And in this case, it can be done by not sucking.
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#89
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Some people like taking longer in dungeons by making armor, chopping trees, fishing fish and killing every monster. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't see people judging others by making pures (which in a way is also inefficient) or making solo accounts where they have 0 interaction with other players. Hell there are even players that refuse to get p2p just because of some sense of grandeur or preference whatever reason those players choose to stay f2p when training in p2p would save both time and effort. It doesn't mean they're wrong or that they're freaks, it just means they're different than me. They have their own community and I have mine. Its no different with dungeoneering. There are players that enjoys doing slow dungeons and have friends just to participate in that, and there are dungers like me who refuse to accept a teammate who can't finish a floor in 20-30 minutes at least. All this says is that I'm different than them.

Basically what I'm trying to get to here is that people are different. If you don't like rushing floors, you made a choice not to rush and you have to live with the results of your choice (smaller community of people who're willing to dung with you). If you like to rush floors, you also have to live with the fact that there are less and less "pro" dungers to dung with and it'll be harder to get teams. It's not being noob/obnoxious/elitist. It's just people being different. This honestly makes the game more interesting otherwise we'd all be maxxed total levels with the same total xp because we are all the same player.

I'd agree if the community was actually well segregated between slow and rush DGers.
Because then slow and rush DGers could both have the respective type of fun they want.

But it's not. Pretty much everybody who dungeoneers will encounter dozens of other players who are infinitely worse than themselves.
And these encounters are frustrating because they waste people's time.
There would be nothing wrong if this did not happen, but it does.

Dungeoneering is a situation where, most players, will be forced to play with players they are not familiar with.

It's just common courtesy to not waste other people's time in these scenarios.
And in this case, it can be done by not sucking.

It is true that in your mind you feel that you meet many DGers who are worse than yourself. However, many of those people are this way by choice. I have nagged at many people throughout my time DGing to try get them gtgd faster or gate a door. However, many DGers just enjoy a slower paced DG where they can go at a more relaxing pace. For them w117 is actually perfect because at that pace no one would ever die and everyone in that world would be happy that they did a good floor. For DGers such as you however, you view that as unacceptable with good reasons. At the end of the day, it does not mean they are not DGing well, it just means they prefer to be slower. Haven't you ever just sat at a bank talking with a friend for an hour just to talk with them? Would you view that as an unacceptable waste of time? I certainly would not. If you're doing something you enjoy, then its a perfectly good use of my time on RS. It is only when they feel that they are DGing slow and that they want to improve themselves, then I show them a door to a different method. At the end of the day though, the most I can do is to point them in a direction. It is their own choice if they want to join the DG rush community with 3BO or stay in a slower paced DG with w117.

P.S. You might think that they are wasting your time, but they might also think you are wasting their time if you get frustrated and start directing them to do certain things. If you don't like it stay in 3BO worlds or at least w148. This might just make both of you happier in the long run.
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#90
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It is true that in your mind you feel that you meet many DGers who are worse than yourself. However, many of those people are this way by choice. I have nagged at many people throughout my time DGing to try get them gtgd faster or gate a door. However, many DGers just enjoy a slower paced DG where they can go at a more relaxing pace. For them w117 is actually perfect because at that pace no one would ever die and everyone in that world would be happy that they did a good floor. For DGers such as you however, you view that as unacceptable with good reasons. At the end of the day, it does not mean they are not DGing well, it just means they prefer to be slower. Haven't you ever just sat at a bank talking with a friend for an hour just to talk with them? Would you view that as an unacceptable waste of time? I certainly would not. If you're doing something you enjoy, then its a perfectly good use of my time on RS. It is only when they feel that they are DGing slow and that they want to improve themselves, then I show them a door to a different method. At the end of the day though, the most I can do is to point them in a direction. It is their own choice if they want to join the DG rush community with 3BO or stay in a slower paced DG with w117.

P.S. You might think that they are wasting your time, but they might also think you are wasting their time if you get frustrated and start directing them to do certain things. If you don't like it stay in 3BO worlds or at least w148. This might just make both of you happier in the long run.

You're basically trying to argue that since both parties are frustrated, neither is at fault.
Fault exists, I don't understand what you gain from brushing it off as just a matter of preferences.
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#91
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It is true that in your mind you feel that you meet many DGers who are worse than yourself. However, many of those people are this way by choice. I have nagged at many people throughout my time DGing to try get them gtgd faster or gate a door. However, many DGers just enjoy a slower paced DG where they can go at a more relaxing pace. For them w117 is actually perfect because at that pace no one would ever die and everyone in that world would be happy that they did a good floor. For DGers such as you however, you view that as unacceptable with good reasons. At the end of the day, it does not mean they are not DGing well, it just means they prefer to be slower. Haven't you ever just sat at a bank talking with a friend for an hour just to talk with them? Would you view that as an unacceptable waste of time? I certainly would not. If you're doing something you enjoy, then its a perfectly good use of my time on RS. It is only when they feel that they are DGing slow and that they want to improve themselves, then I show them a door to a different method. At the end of the day though, the most I can do is to point them in a direction. It is their own choice if they want to join the DG rush community with 3BO or stay in a slower paced DG with w117.

P.S. You might think that they are wasting your time, but they might also think you are wasting their time if you get frustrated and start directing them to do certain things. If you don't like it stay in 3BO worlds or at least w148. This might just make both of you happier in the long run.

You're basically trying to argue that since both parties are frustrated, neither is at fault.
Fault exists, I don't understand what you gain from brushing it off as just a matter of preferences.

Would it be a fault for someone to make a lvl 3 skiller? They would be able to level up much faster if they leveled combat instead to unlock better skilling locations.

Or what about a person pking? They could be making more reliable money at frosts or DKs.

If those are fine, why isn't it fine for a person to want to do a floor in an hour as opposed to 20 minutes?
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#92
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Would it be a fault for someone to make a lvl 3 skiller? They would be able to level up much faster if they leveled combat instead to unlock better skilling locations.

Or what about a person pking? They could be making more reliable money at frosts or DKs.

If those are fine, why isn't it fine for a person to want to do a floor in an hour as opposed to 20 minutes?

there are good lvl 3 skillers that can pull their weight in dungeoneering floors, and are accepted in clans like 3BO
I know people who go out of their way to DG with such certain skillers who've made a name for themself.
So yes I would fault a lvl 3 skiller for sucking.

idk what PKing has to do with this. That's not team related.
There's nothing wrong with a person wanting to do a floor in an hour.
There is something wrong with a person wanting to do a floor in an hour, when 4 players on the team want to do the floor in 20 minutes.
And the person wanting to do the floor in an hour is stubborn about his preferences.

I mean, hypothetically, if I were in a team with 4 slow DGers.
Sure, i'd be polite and oblige and do a 1 hour floor with them so they can have fun.
(granted I would never put myself in this position in the first place)

But, I'm pretty sure most DGers prefer fast floors.
Heck, lets make a poll and find out.
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#93
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Would it be a fault for someone to make a lvl 3 skiller? They would be able to level up much faster if they leveled combat instead to unlock better skilling locations.

Or what about a person pking? They could be making more reliable money at frosts or DKs.

If those are fine, why isn't it fine for a person to want to do a floor in an hour as opposed to 20 minutes?

there are good lvl 3 skillers that can pull their weight in dungeoneering floors, and are accepted in clans like 3BO
I know people who go out of their way to DG with such certain skillers who've made a name for themself.
So yes I would fault a lvl 3 skiller for sucking.

idk what PKing has to do with this. That's not team related.
There's nothing wrong with a person wanting to do a floor in an hour.
There is something wrong with a person wanting to do a floor in an hour, when 4 players on the team want to do the floor in 20 minutes.
And the person wanting to do the floor in an hour is stubborn about his preferences.

I mean, hypothetically, if I were in a team with 4 slow DGers.
Sure, i'd be polite and oblige and do a 1 hour floor with them so they can have fun.
(granted I would never put myself in this position in the first place)

But, I'm pretty sure most DGers prefer fast floors.
Heck, lets make a poll and find out.

A level 138 who knows how to rush will always make a team faster than a lvl 3 who knows how to rush. And you're missing my point. You feel that any one who's not efficient in DG is somehow mutated or diseased. But that is nothing but a prejudice based off of your own opinion. To your reasoning I would see a lvl 3 skiller as the same as someone who wants to do a floor in an hour as opposed to 20 minutes. The lvl 3 skiller could have leveled himself up so much faster had he went and trained his combat to just 100 in around a week to unlock many new training spots to help himself level faster.

Off topic: Have you ever multi pked or been in a PKRI? That is VERY team related. Judging from your personality and how I've seen you post though with your idea of efficiency is king, I doubt you would participate in those activities many people on RS view as fun. If I don't judge you for skilling 24/7 getting your total level up (which I see as being dull) why would you judge someone for wanting to relax and do a floor slowly?
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#94
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Man, I remember the very first time I had a floor with Thunderous. I was in a random team with a lvl 100+ dunger, and rather than just soloing Thunderous himself, he took the time to teach me and another person how to do it ourselves. I didn't solo Thunderous well after that; it took me a few times doing it largely on my own to get the hang of it, but that mentoring the first time laid a foundation that was invaluable. Even after I failed miserably the first few times I tried soloing or duoing Thunderous myself, I always felt like I'd get the hang of it eventually because I had done it before successfully.

The whole road from when I started teaming large dunges (I soloed dunge until lvl 74 or 75) to reaching my goal of lvl 100 dunge was built on moments of either someone taking a second to mentor me, or me dying and learning through the school of hard knocks. There's no way to avoid some of those hard knock lessons, but a lot of them can be avoided (or simply not repeated more than once or twice) if you have a mentor giving you advice and teaching you how to do it. Dunge is one of those skills where it absolutely helps to have a mentor because there's only so much you can learn from guides; you need hands on experience, and watching someone in the moment, having someone there who you can ask things when something comes up, is just invaluable.

So, awesome job guys. Right now I'm on a break from dunge until I get 99 def and most likely until I get a few more goal levels in other skills, but as soon I'm back in the swing of things I'll be more than happy to help mentor. My keying needs some work, but I can always be a second set of hands to help teach the ins and outs of team dunging to people new to it.

EDIT: On the topic of 60 min floors vs. 20 min floors, there's actually a very practical reason why a lot of dungers prefer faster floors, especially when teaming, that has nothing to do with exp/hour (although, admittedly, that is a nice bonus and probably the reason most people would cite first). A lot of teams have at least one random person who is a complete stranger to everyone else on the team. This leaves a large amount of space for personality conflicts to come into play, and the longer the floor goes on the more chance there is for people to blow up and either quit or do something else spiteful that ultimately only hurts the team. Most people can grin and bear someone that annoys them (or does things that annoy them) for twenty minutes, but an hour is pushing it.

Just a caveat, I'm not saying that most players don't worship at the altar of exp/h. They do. Most dungers do. I'm just saying that there are other, equally valid reasons that someone would want to do floors quickly; and the complexity of team play with strangers is definitely one of them.
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#95
Grimy_Bunyip
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A level 138 who knows how to rush will always make a team faster than a lvl 3 who knows how to rush. And you're missing my point. You feel that any one who's not efficient in DG is somehow mutated or diseased. But that is nothing but a prejudice based off of your own opinion. To your reasoning I would see a lvl 3 skiller as the same as someone who wants to do a floor in an hour as opposed to 20 minutes. The lvl 3 skiller could have leveled himself up so much faster had he went and trained his combat to just 100 in around a week to unlock many new training spots to help himself level faster.

Off topic: Have you ever multi pked or been in a PKRI? That is VERY team related. Judging from your personality and how I've seen you post though with your idea of efficiency is king, I doubt you would participate in those activities many people on RS view as fun. If I don't judge you for skilling 24/7 getting your total level up (which I see as being dull) why would you judge someone for wanting to relax and do a floor slowly?

It's not really obvious that a 138 rusher will do better than a lvl 3 skiller.
Because a lvl 3 skiller can lower the combat level of the monsters.
Pro lvl 3 skillers are able to provide a constant flow of prayer potions and melee potions for the room clearers to turmoil and pot the entire floor.
Which is why some people like DGing with a single skiller, as, it CAN be faster than with a 138 rusher in his place.

And I never said anything about someone who is not efficient at DG being mutated or diseased.
I said they lack manners.

You make it sound like I think there's something inherently wrong with them.
No, I just dislike their attitude towards social circumstances.

and for the THIRD time this thread.
I didn't say I judge people for doing floors slowly.

I said that if I was forced into a position where I had to dg with 4 ppl who liked DGing slowly. I would DG slowly.

I said, specifically, multiple times.
That the majority of scenarios, are that of rushers with a few slower DGers.
And that if these slower DGers think they are entitled to DG slowly even if they are in the minority, they are just very selfish.
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#96
yuriqiu
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A level 138 who knows how to rush will always make a team faster than a lvl 3 who knows how to rush. And you're missing my point. You feel that any one who's not efficient in DG is somehow mutated or diseased. But that is nothing but a prejudice based off of your own opinion. To your reasoning I would see a lvl 3 skiller as the same as someone who wants to do a floor in an hour as opposed to 20 minutes. The lvl 3 skiller could have leveled himself up so much faster had he went and trained his combat to just 100 in around a week to unlock many new training spots to help himself level faster.

Off topic: Have you ever multi pked or been in a PKRI? That is VERY team related. Judging from your personality and how I've seen you post though with your idea of efficiency is king, I doubt you would participate in those activities many people on RS view as fun. If I don't judge you for skilling 24/7 getting your total level up (which I see as being dull) why would you judge someone for wanting to relax and do a floor slowly?

It's not really obvious that a 138 rusher will do better than a lvl 3 skiller.
Because a lvl 3 skiller can lower the combat level of the monsters.
Pro lvl 3 skillers are able to provide a constant flow of prayer potions and melee potions for the room clearers to turmoil and pot the entire floor.
Which is why some people like DGing with a single skiller, as, it CAN be faster than with a 138 rusher in his place.

And I never said anything about someone who is not efficient at DG being mutated or diseased.
I said they lack manners.

You make it sound like I think there's something inherently wrong with them.
No, I just dislike their attitude towards social circumstances.

and for the THIRD time this thread.
I didn't say I judge people for doing floors slowly.

I said that if I was forced into a position where I had to dg with 4 ppl who liked DGing slowly. I would DG slowly.

I said, specifically, multiple times.
That the majority of scenarios, are that of rushers with a few slower DGers.
And that if these slower DGers think they are entitled to DG slowly even if they are in the minority, they are just very selfish.

While you think they're selfish for DGing slowly, they're thinking you're selfish because you're telling them what to do as if you own them. Who are you to tell people how they're suppose to play a game? If everyone plays this game like you then we'd all be the same levels with the same xp saying the exact same things. Much rather have some variety like there is right now.
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#97
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The problem with having variety is that the rushers and non-rushers are forced to intermingle, so problems arise, expectedly. When the two groups mix (which they do every single day on 117, 148, and even 3BO), the non-rushers essentially force the rushers to spend extra time that they might not have. It's actually very selfish of them, inherently. In a perfect world, the two groups would be segregated, but this isn't the case, so it makes more sense for non-rushers to just get with the program and rush for the greater good.

In a nutshell:
1) When non-rushers slow rushers down, one party gets hurt.
2) When non-rushers suck it up and rush with rushers, both parties benefit.

It's a pretty simple decision, really.

Posted Image

To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.


#98
Grimy_Bunyip
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Grimy_Bunyip

    Black Knight Trainer

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While you think they're selfish for DGing slowly, they're thinking you're selfish because you're telling them what to do as if you own them. Who are you to tell people how they're suppose to play a game? If everyone plays this game like you then we'd all be the same levels with the same xp saying the exact same things. Much rather have some variety like there is right now.

I had this conversation with Racheya a while back.
Efficiency does not imply that if everybody were efficient, that everybody would be doing the same exact thing.
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#99
yuriqiu
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yuriqiu

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The problem with having variety is that the rushers and non-rushers are forced to intermingle, so problems arise, expectedly. When the two groups mix (which they do every single day on 117, 148, and even 3BO), the non-rushers essentially force the rushers to spend extra time that they might not have. It's actually very selfish of them, inherently. In a perfect world, the two groups would be segregated, but this isn't the case, so it makes more sense for non-rushers to just get with the program and rush for the greater good.

In a nutshell:
1) When non-rushers slow rushers down, one party gets hurt.
2) When non-rushers suck it up and rush with rushers, both parties benefit.

It's a pretty simple decision, really.

I thought it was pretty intuitive that Rushers -> 3bo, nonrushers -> 117. I rush, therefore I never touch 117. Never really have a problem except for maybe 1 person in a given week.
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#100
Obtaurian
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Obtaurian

    Dragon Slayer

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The problem with having variety is that the rushers and non-rushers are forced to intermingle, so problems arise, expectedly. When the two groups mix (which they do every single day on 117, 148, and even 3BO), the non-rushers essentially force the rushers to spend extra time that they might not have. It's actually very selfish of them, inherently. In a perfect world, the two groups would be segregated, but this isn't the case, so it makes more sense for non-rushers to just get with the program and rush for the greater good.

In a nutshell:
1) When non-rushers slow rushers down, one party gets hurt.
2) When non-rushers suck it up and rush with rushers, both parties benefit.

It's a pretty simple decision, really.

I thought it was pretty intuitive that Rushers -> 3bo, nonrushers -> 117. I rush, therefore I never touch 117. Never really have a problem except for maybe 1 person in a given week.


Uh, no. 117 = chickens running around with their heads cutoff. 117 is not a non-rush world, it's a "we don't know what we're doing" world. From what I understand, the quality of 3BO teams is slipping very fast, so it's no longer synonymous with pro-rushing. 148 is supposed to be a rush world, but I would actually say that it's become a non-rush world for the most part, which is very odd considering its origins.

Posted Image

To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.





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