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Dungeoneering's Impact on the Community at Large

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Using a dungeoneering bot will get you what, 6k xp/h? You can't team either. But anyways, that's not the point of this thread.

 

The point of this is to stray away from the lazy ways of dungeoneering that is hurting it as a whole (botting, leech flooring, non-rushing in general). Many people are striving so hard to keep the spirit of dungeoneering alive, and it seems like a fair amount simply don't care.

 

Also Everto, last time I checked, frozen floors don't tick off warped. :P

 

6K xp/h? Can't team? this made me chuckle irl. Never seen a dungeoneering bot in action, huh? Shouldn't speak about things you don't know about and throw around numbers you just made up.

 

 

On topic:

 

Some people rush, some don't I don't see what the big deal is, people are free to have their preferances. I, myself don't rush because dieing would be a disgrace, i also like to see xp coming in large chunks, get as many achievements as I can while in a dungeon (mmm, beastmode).

 

Also, 1 hour dungeons are slow for you huh? the average you get in w117 is above 1:30mins, and I've gone as long as 4hours+ (don't remember the exact time, was before the timing system was introduced and i wasn't really tracking time).

I'm pretty sure that 1 hour dungeons are slow, even in W117. (And even for "nonrushers")


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Seems like a communication issue, when i key'ed(very infrequently) I would ask the team whether they wanted a rush, or the slow roll through. This brought the team on same page; and I was always content with doing either.

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Seems like a communication issue, when i key'ed(very infrequently) I would ask the team whether they wanted a rush, or the slow roll through. This brought the team on same page; and I was always content with doing either.

 

I agree with you on communication issues. If you go into a non-clan floor expecting everyone to be avid rushers ready to be as efficient as possible you're in for slow floor times. You really have to let the team know, as a keyer, what your preferences and styles are before leading them through the floor.


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Using a dungeoneering bot will get you what, 6k xp/h? You can't team either. But anyways, that's not the point of this thread.

 

The point of this is to stray away from the lazy ways of dungeoneering that is hurting it as a whole (botting, leech flooring, non-rushing in general). Many people are striving so hard to keep the spirit of dungeoneering alive, and it seems like a fair amount simply don't care.

 

Also Everto, last time I checked, frozen floors don't tick off warped. :P

 

6K xp/h? Can't team? this made me chuckle irl. Never seen a dungeoneering bot in action, huh? Shouldn't speak about things you don't know about and throw around numbers you just made up.

 

 

On topic:

 

Some people rush, some don't I don't see what the big deal is, people are free to have their preferances. I, myself don't rush because dieing would be a disgrace, i also like to see xp coming in large chunks, get as many achievements as I can while in a dungeon (mmm, beastmode).

 

Also, 1 hour dungeons are slow for you huh? the average you get in w117 is above 1:30mins, and I've gone as long as 4hours+ (don't remember the exact time, was before the timing system was introduced and i wasn't really tracking time).

I'm pretty sure that 1 hour dungeons are slow, even in W117. (And even for "nonrushers")

 

 

Well I'm pretty sure (and I did all of my dungeoneering in w117 minus a few friend/clan dungeons) that you don't get faster than 1hour in w117, at least never happened to me, fastest dungeon i remember was 56 minutes, and everyone were very helpful and cooperative then, heck we didnt even have griefers.


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A lot of people? When 3/4ths of the people who visited this thread says they like to plow through dungeons rather than taking a longer time to finish, that is a pretty good representation of people wanting to do the "power" way. If you think that doing everything in a floor is your preferred method of play, then go with what you like.

 

However, the problem is that when efficient players are teamed with inefficient players and the latter refuses to adjust their style, it is the efficient players that are getting hurt (as stated by an earlier post in the thread). Keep in mind that if people do make an effort, I would be happy with it because it shows they are willing to show initiative (something a lot of randomers lack).

 

What do you mean "without any real interest in the wider game"? The dungeoneering metagame is already pretty damn wide, you should see some of the research projects DGS is involved with. If anything the metagaming view is much, much wider than the casualist view.

 

I do consider for those that have different gameplay styles, but think of this as a movie production. Sometimes, you can't always get what you want. Either you make an effort to accommodate to the team, or you continue to not listen and drag everybody down. In my opinion that is worse than what you claim is "impatience".

 

What we are aiming for are players who are willing to step out of their comfort zone and know how to rush floors, solo and team. They don't necessarily need to be good, because face it, who is born with natural talent? Practice makes perfect, and therefore some work is required to become good.

 

I didn't say all, I said a lot and yes I agree it is a smaller number compared to those that power through the levels, but still enough numbers to be represented.

 

By 'the wider game' I meant all of RS, not just Dungeoneering.

 

'Accommodating the team' works both ways, choose your team wisely and you won't be 'dragged down', alternatively offer to play to other people's style occasionally so you don't drag them down to your style of play....you see? Its all subjective. You would be taken out of your 'comfort zone' learning how to enjoy and explore floors and complete a level in the most thorough way possible. I am just making a point here, that everyone thinks their way is best and you and others are not recognising that fact, making assumptions that anyone who doesn't play it by your rules is inefficient because they don't 'rush floors'. For me it is inefficient to leave something half done, but then xp is not the most important thing to me, game enjoyment is.


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Sounds good.. though I'm possibly biased since I'm an older player who's come out of retirement, to find a new skill called Dungeoneering... I'm going to get flamed so hard when I first try the skill :(

Pretty much the same here lol. I stumbled my way to 15 Dung, didn't 'get it' and since then it's been the resource dungeons and ToG to my current level.


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Solution:

 

Make floor xp independant of floor, so a f46 still gives same xp as f4. The prestige system still applies of course.

 

 

Pro:

 

High level dungeoneers are not punished for dging with low levels

Low levels can dung with high levels so they can learn.

Dung clan requirements can be loosened a lot.

People will actually play the content in 1-29 dungeons (they are otherwise only c1d, which is a waste of dev resources tbfh)

No need to do c1s anymore.

 

con:

 

?

Won't fix everything. Since all floors give equal exp, the efficiency crowd will just run frozen over and over because it is the easiest.

 

And dung clan requirements exist not so much because of floor differences but because someone with 60 dung has a tiny fraction of the knowledge and experience of somebody with 100+ DG.

Nah, you'd still have to c1 everything else if you do that.

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frozen is [cabbage]

people will just plow through furnished and abd and c1 everything else, which would be more efficient


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There's a sort of Nash equilibrium in dungeoneering. From Wikipedia:

 

In game theory, Nash equilibrium (named after John Forbes Nash, who proposed it) is a solution concept of a game involving two or more players, in which each player is assumed to know the equilibrium strategies of the other players, and no player has anything to gain by changing only his own strategy unilaterally. If each player has chosen a strategy and no player can benefit by changing his or her strategy while the other players keep theirs unchanged, then the current set of strategy choices and the corresponding payoffs constitute a Nash equilibrium.

Meaning that although for a 5-man team it's best (xp-wise) if people don't fish, take a death or two each and do a fast floor, it isn't worth doing so taking into account that each individual will try to maximise their own xp, which is achieved by not dying, which requires spending time. Taking into account that nobody else will be dying (and each other person will beslowing the floor down) it isn't worth dying. This cycle of trading floor time for more individual xp will go on a few times, and with each time people try to die less and are willing to spend more time preventing death, slowing the floor even more, making a death even more of a time loss, making it even more important to avoid death.

 

In short, you have to be able to trust your teammates to be willing to sacrifice xp/floor (aka taking deaths) for xp/hr (aka floor time). Trust is crucial to dg and it's hard to trust people in w117 as it's commonly recognized as a place with bad dungeoneers (regardless of the deservedness of this reputation).


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Quyneax (or anyone equipped to handle the question):

 

I am curious about one thing. From a high-end player perspective, would you say that Dungeoneering items are a necessity at your level of play at this point?

 

EDIT: To clarify. I'm one of those idiots who soloed my way to 80ish and then realized that I didn't have 80 atk to use the rapier... derp. So, having no prior experience to go by, I'm just trying to understand why people would want to max out/obtain the rewards in this skill as opposed to others that may give more practical benefits.

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In 2k11, dg items are a must have for high levels. Pking, minigames, and bossing are all activities where chaotics are extremely useful.

 

If you are a mid or low combat level then there many other things to enjoy in rs, in the end dg is targeted at endgame players.


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Quyneax (or anyone equipped to handle the question):

 

I am curious about one thing. From a high-end player perspective, would you say that Dungeoneering items are a necessity at your level of play at this point?

 

EDIT: To clarify. I'm one of those idiots who soloed my way to 80ish and then realized that I didn't have 80 atk to use the rapier... derp. So, having no prior experience to go by, I'm just trying to understand why people would want to max out/obtain the rewards in this skill as opposed to others that may give more practical benefits.

I couldn't imagine using magic without an arcane stream necklace any more than I could imagine melee without a rapier or herblore/farming without their respective scrolls or even the resource dungeons as I use them for slayer (well, only the hellhound dungeon really). They are extremely crucial to any medium-to-high-level monster hunting especially, but also skilling benefits quite a bit. If someone showed up at, say, glacors without an arcane stream (at my level of play, as you call it) it'd be a very curious instance and I wouldn't say that person looked into buying it enough. There basically is no reason not to use it.

 

tl;dr Yes, you can't call yourself a high-end player without dungeoneering items.

 

The ability to buy many dungeoneering items and keep them repaired at a relatively low cost that comes with higher dungeoneering levels is mainly important for dangerous pvp, but it's also a convenience.


Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Also, 1 hour dungeons are slow for you huh? the average you get in w117 is above 1:30mins, and I've gone as long as 4hours+ (don't remember the exact time, was before the timing system was introduced and i wasn't really tracking time).

I'm pretty sure that 1 hour dungeons are slow, even in W117. (And even for "nonrushers")

 

 

Well I'm pretty sure (and I did all of my dungeoneering in w117 minus a few friend/clan dungeons) that you don't get faster than 1hour in w117, at least never happened to me, fastest dungeon i remember was 56 minutes, and everyone were very helpful and cooperative then, heck we didnt even have griefers.

I've been doing w117 with my noob account and times are anywhere from 30mins (very responsive, willing to sacrifice a death) to 50mins (people who can't dg or listen).

 

@Quyneax: I've never thought of it as a Nash Equilibrium, good call on that one (and only reason I know of that is "A Beautiful Mind". Great movie.). There lies the problem with 117, most seek to maximize exp/fl thinking that's giving them the most exp rather than maximizing exp/h.


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You don't get it. Let's make it even simpler for you for understand.

Player 1 tries to play efficiently: Gets 6+ deaths but speeds up dungeon.

Player 2 through 5: play like idiots and slow down everything, player 1 ends up having to wait while they fish, cook and make armour

Result: Dungeon is 2 hours long and player 1 has got even less xp than the idiots

 

That's why the "masses" don't go around dying on purpose. That sort of thinking only works when you have a clan that knows what they're doing. People that are too low lvled to get into a clan and have to use w117 have basically no choice but to play inefficiently.

This is why player 1 must try and fix the other 4 players' mindset. As long as even 1 person in the floor knows what they are doing you shouldn't be getting 2 hour floors.

 

I didn't say all, I said a lot and yes I agree it is a smaller number compared to those that power through the levels, but still enough numbers to be represented.

 

By 'the wider game' I meant all of RS, not just Dungeoneering.

 

'Accommodating the team' works both ways, choose your team wisely and you won't be 'dragged down', alternatively offer to play to other people's style occasionally so you don't drag them down to your style of play....you see? Its all subjective. You would be taken out of your 'comfort zone' learning how to enjoy and explore floors and complete a level in the most thorough way possible. I am just making a point here, that everyone thinks their way is best and you and others are not recognising that fact, making assumptions that anyone who doesn't play it by your rules is inefficient because they don't 'rush floors'. For me it is inefficient to leave something half done, but then xp is not the most important thing to me, game enjoyment is.

"Dragging them down" to what is considered the accepted style of gameplay? There is a reason dungeoneering clans only advocate rushes, because it is better in all cases. The only times where I did do what you mentioned would be before I found said clans, and times when I would do joke floors with my friends (the clear alls still took only 30-40min).

 

It is because of people who think their way is best that is hurting dungeoneering as a whole. This isn't a matter of subjectivity, Erewhon. People get unhappy at ones who skill or clear non-gd's, and for good reason too. I know I sound fairly elitist but I'm only stating the truth. I don't get mad easily at said people but others could rage hard.

 

And by the way, I still get under 30 minute dungeons keying for randoms :P


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And by the way, I still get under 30 minute dungeons keying for randoms :P

 

And you were keying in f2p? which is drastically different from p2p. There was a reason for that xp nerf(not a great reason, but still a reason).

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And by the way, I still get under 30 minute dungeons keying for randoms :P

 

And you were keying in f2p? which is drastically different from p2p. There was a reason for that xp nerf(not a great reason, but still a reason).

Misaki got a 10 minute with 4 randoms once, but never with me :(

 

Really the only REAL difference is the fact that you can't pot doors and there are paths involving member skills, which is the main reason f2p gets "faster" floors on average. If it is possible for f2p to be able to do fulls all the time (no pot/member doors), it would definitely have slower times than p2p.

 

- lack of a shadow silk hood

- tier 5 items, NO rings

- magic/range underpowered (look at the hexhunter/CCS in p2p and compare it with fire blast/spine bow...)

- limited prayers

- dusk eel (70 lp) as opposed to salve eel (200 lp)

- armor being completely useless, fractite platebody is probably the most overrated bind...

- lack of agility, familiars, pots, etc.

 

Free players are also stuck with 35 prestige. But discussing the high-level penalty is not the point here. (Although, high-levels in free play do tend to be much rarer than in p2p...)

 

Something else to note. Would doing c1 1-35 be better if done on free worlds? Or would said boosts in p2p override that?


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About the w117 dungeon times, i guess since I have no evidence ill just start tracking and logging the times of the dungeons i do with w117 teams from now on, since im fairly sure ive never seen anything remotely close to 30minutes large dungeons.

 

About the whole "w117 can't dungeroneer properly" thing I'm totally fine with it. Try thinking about it this way: the world of RuneScape is largely based on fighting and combat. The world is full of people who can only go on killing other people or monsters for a living. It's no surprise when such brutes wish to get chaotic weapons - since they're the strongest, but can do little besides killing anyone they see in, while in a dungeon.

 

Think of them as mercenaries, they don't think that much.


The clock is ticking, and your time is running out, mortals.

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I have very little experience of what you may call "modern Dungeoneering" having not been back to Daemonheim for any reasonable length of time since getting 100 4 months after the skill was released. However, I don't see how 117 can still be seen as a 90 minute floor world seeing as I keyed the cape solely on that world and probably averaged at half that floor time. Logic would surely dictate that the public would have slowly improved, on average, with time as more guides, gossip and general knowledge came to light; I feel the biggest problem with Dungeoneering worlds - and this goes for the 3BO world, too - is the attitude of the players deemed worthy of a clan. Everyone with the mindset that W117 should be avoided is the largest cause of the world's terrible reputation. I'm not saying that floor times are based solely on the keyer, or the attitudes of the players, but a large contribution to the success of a community like W117's dungeoneers is that people go in with an open mind and the ability to communicate well their personal aims or feelings. I'm constantly bombarded with requests to key for people and as I've said I haven't dg'd for a stupid length of time - is this because I have god-tier keying capabilities? No, it's simply because these people have heard that I spent the time on a world dubbed terrible for Dungeoneering and still got good exp rates in respect to the average of that time. Dungeoneering has moved on a lot since I left it, and I'd be clueless as to how to key a fast floor in today's higher level society, but I know that I would swiftly learn and regain my joy of keying. All the skill needs is a more accepting, less reserved judgement of the people that are all there for the same thing - experience.

 

Now, wall of text about crappy ideologies aside, Dungeoneering is and always will be fundamental to the success of an account, in my opinion. I know many people hate it and that it becomes a grind like every other skill after a while, particularly if you're not part of a close-knit clan. The average Runescape troll player has no hope of doing well at the skill though, unless someone generous decides to hold their hand throughout the morbid affair. I personally stopped after getting my now-deceased untrimmed cape (Damn you [insert witty play on the word Jagex here] and your infernal cape-in-the-bank-trimming-talons) due to having more interest in the rest of the game, I'll go back one day but that will no doubt be long after Glacors stop being so fun to kill.

 

tl;dr The problem is the community but a few individuals can make a large difference. Sanafari is a butthurt keyer that lost his untrimmed cape and is now sulking.

 

P.S. I just realised I need to remove Dungeoneering from my signature. Sadface.


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Capes: Dungeoneering, Dungeoneering (t), Defence (t), Attack (t),

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Massive thanks to [)en[)en for my signature picture.

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30.7M Dungeoneering XP

 

:roll:


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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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And by the way, I still get under 30 minute dungeons keying for randoms :P

 

And you were keying in f2p? which is drastically different from p2p. There was a reason for that xp nerf(not a great reason, but still a reason).

Misaki got a 10 minute with 4 randoms once, but never with me :(

 

Really the only REAL difference is the fact that you can't pot doors and there are paths involving member skills, which is the main reason f2p gets "faster" floors on average. If it is possible for f2p to be able to do fulls all the time (no pot/member doors), it would definitely have slower times than p2p.

 

- lack of a shadow silk hood

- tier 5 items, NO rings

- magic/range underpowered (look at the hexhunter/CCS in p2p and compare it with fire blast/spine bow...)

- limited prayers

- dusk eel (70 lp) as opposed to salve eel (200 lp)

- armor being completely useless, fractite platebody is probably the most overrated bind...

- lack of agility, familiars, pots, etc.

 

 

And does the higher average monster level offset some/all of those?

 

With a fully outfitted team I agree that p2p would be quicker than a fully outfitted f2p team.

But I am talking about random teams, I have never been in an over 1:15 dungeon in f2p; but from the posts here it seems like a common occurrence in p2p.

Maybe it comes from the being shut off of 1/4 of the dungeon, maybe it is the generally weaker enemies, I dunno.

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I have very little experience of what you may call "modern Dungeoneering" having not been back to Daemonheim for any reasonable length of time since getting 100 4 months after the skill was released. However, I don't see how 117 can still be seen as a 90 minute floor world seeing as I keyed the cape solely on that world and probably averaged at half that floor time. Logic would surely dictate that the public would have slowly improved, on average, with time as more guides, gossip and general knowledge came to light; I feel the biggest problem with Dungeoneering worlds - and this goes for the 3BO world, too - is the attitude of the players deemed worthy of a clan. Everyone with the mindset that W117 should be avoided is the largest cause of the world's terrible reputation. I'm not saying that floor times are based solely on the keyer, or the attitudes of the players, but a large contribution to the success of a community like W117's dungeoneers is that people go in with an open mind and the ability to communicate well their personal aims or feelings. I'm constantly bombarded with requests to key for people and as I've said I haven't dg'd for a stupid length of time - is this because I have god-tier keying capabilities? No, it's simply because these people have heard that I spent the time on a world dubbed terrible for Dungeoneering and still got good exp rates in respect to the average of that time. Dungeoneering has moved on a lot since I left it, and I'd be clueless as to how to key a fast floor in today's higher level society, but I know that I would swiftly learn and regain my joy of keying. All the skill needs is a more accepting, less reserved judgement of the people that are all there for the same thing - experience.

 

Now, wall of text about crappy ideologies aside, Dungeoneering is and always will be fundamental to the success of an account, in my opinion. I know many people hate it and that it becomes a grind like every other skill after a while, particularly if you're not part of a close-knit clan. The average Runescape troll player has no hope of doing well at the skill though, unless someone generous decides to hold their hand throughout the morbid affair. I personally stopped after getting my now-deceased untrimmed cape (Damn you [insert witty play on the word Jagex here] and your infernal cape-in-the-bank-trimming-talons) due to having more interest in the rest of the game, I'll go back one day but that will no doubt be long after Glacors stop being so fun to kill.

 

tl;dr The problem is the community but a few individuals can make a large difference. Sanafari is a butthurt keyer that lost his untrimmed cape and is now sulking.

 

P.S. I just realised I need to remove Dungeoneering from my signature. Sadface.

Just responding tov the first part but it's too annoying to edit the rest out on mobile view.

 

The thing about 117 nowadays (I wasn't playing during dungeoneerings initial release so I can't speak as to its state then) is that people are just there for their chaotic. Once they get that, they're gone. This means that they tale their knowledge with them so the general level of intelligence hasn't been improving. Also, as Gwyn posted, some high level dungeoneers are also pretty stupid and that misinformation has been spread just as much as accurate information (to the general public that is). In summary: general improvement in ability seems unlikely.

 

As for average time for a 117 floor, 1 hour is not an exaggeration, when I was collecting data I went there and with the exception of a floor done by bu11seye, were consistantly 55-65 mins. During these floors I was tallying

every hit/miss, clearing dead ends, when needed doing puzzles/key doors and averaging >15 deaths a floor. For one thing, I should have lagged far behind the rest of the team clearing dead ends, but I rarely did and was sometimes leading/doing doors. I once had two people watch me suicide a dragon for ~10 deaths, thats how little initative they show. In all of these floors, except the bu11seye one, I had compliments on my dg ability and people asking me to add them. The point of this being that 117ers really have no idea what good dging is.

 

Edit: Oh yes, damn Jagex and their cape trimming antics.


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There's a sort of Nash equilibrium in dungeoneering. From Wikipedia:

 

In game theory, Nash equilibrium (named after John Forbes Nash, who proposed it) is a solution concept of a game involving two or more players, in which each player is assumed to know the equilibrium strategies of the other players, and no player has anything to gain by changing only his own strategy unilaterally. If each player has chosen a strategy and no player can benefit by changing his or her strategy while the other players keep theirs unchanged, then the current set of strategy choices and the corresponding payoffs constitute a Nash equilibrium.

Just think, 15 years ago, before the internet gurus were born we called that a stalemate.

But, hey thanks to an ego trip by somebody who takes 100 words to say one, we got this.

 

Also, we all know that somebody has to die in dungeoneering and it can't be you.

So you call them a keyer.

You glorify them, tell them they are special, but in the end they get less xp than you because it's their job to go in first and DIE.

Let's face it we all know how dungeoneering is really played. *Wink* *Wink*

 

FIX IT JAGEX!


Exclusive Legacy Mode Player

 

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He just successfully trolled you with "courtesy" and managed to get a reaction out of you. Lol

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There's a sort of Nash equilibrium in dungeoneering. From Wikipedia:

 

In game theory, Nash equilibrium (named after John Forbes Nash, who proposed it) is a solution concept of a game involving two or more players, in which each player is assumed to know the equilibrium strategies of the other players, and no player has anything to gain by changing only his own strategy unilaterally. If each player has chosen a strategy and no player can benefit by changing his or her strategy while the other players keep theirs unchanged, then the current set of strategy choices and the corresponding payoffs constitute a Nash equilibrium.

Just think, 15 years ago, before the internet gurus were born we called that a stalemate.

But, hey thanks to an ego trip by somebody who takes 100 words to say one, we got this.

 

Also, we all know that somebody has to die in dungeoneering and it can't be you.

So you call them a keyer.

You glorify them, tell them they are special, but in the end they get less xp than you because it's their job to go in first and DIE.

Let's face it we all know how dungeoneering is really played. *Wink* *Wink*

 

FIX IT JAGEX!

 

It is kind of sad that the more a person contributes to a dungeon, the more likely they are to get "most deaths" at the end.

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Just think, 15 years ago, before the internet gurus were born we called that a stalemate.

But, hey thanks to an ego trip by somebody who takes 100 words to say one, we got this.

 

Also, we all know that somebody has to die in dungeoneering and it can't be you.

So you call them a keyer.

You glorify them, tell them they are special, but in the end they get less xp than you because it's their job to go in first and DIE.

Let's face it we all know how dungeoneering is really played. *Wink* *Wink*

 

FIX IT JAGEX!

 

They don't have to die.


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