Just the opposite

[Logdotzip]

By my own stupidity, I have staked my bank away. Most of it anyways. in 3 days, I have lost over 850 million gold because of greed and my mind being clouded by it. You lose all sense of logic and reasoning after a point. I've always had a level head, I knew the risks, I knew I should have stopped, but no. I didn't. At one point I was up a billion gold, and would have been up two billion, but then a glitch the other guy decided to use sealed my fate and I lost it. The problem is once you've had it, once you know you can get it, you'll want it again. Needless to say, luck (and PID) was not in my favor, so I stand here at the duel arena bank and look at my ~60k gold. I could sell some items and go back to staking small amounts, but that would be even more stupid than my already idiotic decisions. Since this thread has been made, I have made nearly all of my money back. The following paragraph still holds true to me, however.

 

I have the levels and supplies to go to Frost Dragons or to whatever boss and make money back, but what I no longer have is the will to. This is what Free Trade, and Staking specifically has done to me. It has killed my motivation to play the game. I play RuneScape for the items, to have the best stuff. I already have the levels I want, now I want the gear. You may play for different reasons, I play for my own. Here's my dilemma. After having made nearly a billion and then losing it within the same 5 minute time span, why would I even dream of going back to Monsterhunting, ranging anywhere from 2 to 3.5m an hour? Why even bother? Why slave away clicking endlessly, actually putting effort into something, only to make 1/100th of some lucky guy in three times the time it took him. It leaves me in a bad spot.

 

 

All the people getting lucky or getting hookups. We have the stakers potentially making millions, and while most will lose it again, some are smart and bank it away slowly. We have the Runescape YouTube heroes taking money off their fanboys or whatever you prefer calling them, for nothing, and you have the people who know how to work the Grand Exchange in their favor and make hundreds of millions flipping items. I am none of those three things. Jagex even said it themselves, since the update, 47 trillion gold has changed hands through trade, staking, and PKing. Knowing this, I find it really hard to get myself back to actual moneymaking grinds, and profiting paltry amounts in contrast to the above three.

 

All in all it has ruined my enjoyment on the game, when I thought it would have done just the opposite. Having played this game almost ten years, I've seen it change a lot. I would have never imagined this would be the thing to ruin my love for it.

 

I just want to know if anyone else feels the same as me or similar to it.

 

[spoiler=For the idiots that don't seem to understand what I am trying to convey with ths thread, Courtesy of Geek Guy]

I'm amazed so many people still haven't gotten the message that OP isn't blaming free trade for his loss. He knows that his loss was because of his own stupidity. What he's saying is that with the advent of free trade he's less inclined to play actively with that financially secure feeling. Free trade has allowed prices to become more volatile and thus make merchanting easier for both experienced and clever merchants. He lost 850 mill and dreads the idea of gaining it back because he isn't as adept at others at making ridiculous amounts of money an hour ranging from the double digits of millions to the triple digits! Why should he take so long to gain back the capital using something that he has experience in that's been a proven way of making good cash for years, when he knows that people in emerging niche interests can generate the same, or an even greater amount of capital in a fraction of that time? It's discouraging for him. Four years ago making one million gp an hour with double nature crafting would be considered high level money making.

 

Now, the return of free trade has allowed people with little experience in those traditional money making areas such as skilling and monster hunting to make that amount of money in at least a tenth of the time it would take a Rune Crafter to accrue that much capital. Simply put, the divide between what was traditionally considered a powerful method and niche skills of making money falters in the face of high-level merchanting. I'm not surprised though. This is an extension of a phenomenon that's been occurring for some time. Skillers have long complained about how several skills like woodcutting and mining were the traditional and long-held methods of accruing significant financial capital in the game. With more powerful bosses being released, and subsequent new armors to be dropped along with the release of armors and weapons and potions to make boss killing easier, skillers feel that they have been shafted because there are people they think are putting little effort into their gains. But such is with the art of monster hunting. You know you risk a significant amount when you attempt to loot-share Corporeal Beast, for example, hoping for a split of a divine sigil drop.

 

Some will argue that the risk is worth the reward. I agree. However, what he's comparing is risk vs reward to a steady amount of income. Skilling is indeed a steady amount of income because the goods produced will be easily sold because there's always a steady demand for those exhaustible commodities, and goods are produced at a constant rate. Staking is an example of a "risk vs reward" type of generating capital, obviously. You choose to risk whatever you have and fight your best to win the spoils of the duel. Just because chances are 50/50 on the surface doesn't mean the odds of winning are equally in favor for both dueling parties though. There are certainly many factors as per what's allowed to be used in the duel, and armor strengths and weapon strengths, and different strategies that can all be executed different ways for similar strategies, that can turn the fight in one's favor. Considering these factors, what seems like a 50/50 fight actually turns into a 10/100 fight in one of the worse case scenarios for you.

 

Merchanting is a hybrid of risk vs reward and a steady income because it (usually) involves dealing with flipping exhaustible commodities. However market conditions have been made more volatile with the return of free trade, so the uncertainty in flipping has made the activity more risk than steady income. Considering now that the risk aspect has been significantly increased, it can now be comparable more-so with monster hunting. What the OP is complaining about is that the reward for merchanting and staking, is marginalizing the efforts of 'legitimate' players who invest more effort into what they produce, and the subsequent discouragement from attempting to engage in what used to be considered a traditional money making method is no longer reliable for meeting the same standards of today's level of capital. Thus, he has become disinterested in playing, because his gaming experience was mostly based on generating cash, and he doesn't want to slave away at regaining 850 mill when others can make 850 mill with relatively little effort, but great risk.

 

This is what it would be like if he blamed free trade for his losses:

 

"I lost all my cash staking it away. I blame free trade."

 

No, he has recognized that it is his own stupidity -- for lack of better term -- that's depleted his capital. What he's really saying is:

 

"I lost all my cash staking it away, but I realize I lost my cash because I didn't stop when I should've. Now, I'm faced with the option of regaining that cash because I have the levels to engage in high level money making methods. However, in comparison to what others can receive staking, I feel discouraged from doing so because there are people who are adept at staking who can make as much as I lost with little effort. I have to work for my capital; others don't. Risk generates their capital, hard work generates mine."

 

He recognizes that free trade has contributed to the "caps" of many methods being raised through the roof so to speak. No price limits or trade limits means junk trading is now a viable option for subscribing to street prices to obtain that rare item. Why it works is because there's demand and no supply. The way the system worked before free trade was introduced is that it marginalized supply with the trade limit -- no one could sell for the desired, "true" street price of an item. That increases demand. The supply can now more easily meet with the demand because those obstructions have been removed. He's merely stating that staking has felt the same effects of this obstruction being removed in comparison to other methods of generating capital.

 

However, free trade is not the cause of his loss at all. It is his cause of disinterest because it has augmented various pre-existing methods that were restricted in the reward department because you could only trade so much. Now, the risk -- the chance of winning -- is the same, but the reward is greater because those caps have been removed. Knowing that others invest little risk into their gameplay experience -- as he realizes that gameplay is subjective -- for greater rewards, it's discouraged him from playing the game because his way revolved around capital.

 

He anticipated that free trade would improve his experience because his gameplay revolved around money, and free trade is directly involved with capital. It has done just for the opposite for him. I can sympathize with him -- green dragons are no longer a viable moneymaker for me.

 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not blaming The updates for my loss of money on RS, this is obviously my fault. I am simply asking if others have lost interest in the game as a RESULT of the update, knowing that while you grind away doing your daily activities, some lucky others are making fortunes you can only imagine having.

 

All I am asking here is if other people have lost interest in the game from these updates, and how. I merely used staking in the thread to explain how I lost mine.

 

THE THREAD IS NOT ABOUT STAKING OR MONEY MAKING. It's about how you play the game yourself. I play it to make money, which is why I focus on that most.

[TheAncient]

yep, i really have no motivation to do anything other than nex, dg with friends, and (eventually) pk - versus before, where my continual goal was to always make money. most good items are way overpriced now and not worth saving up for. plus there's no reason to monster hunt when money comes so easily via flipping and merching.

 

maybe once i start pking and get a nice stock of 5+ chaotics/streams to lose i'll start playing more actively

[langer]

Aside from having a hard time selling my stuff on the G.E. and going to ZMI for RC, I haven't changed my gameplay since free trade has come back.

 

I was never into staking and instant wealth. I prefer to work and "grind" for my levels so I don't feel in any similar way to you.

[Mrhouse]

You play runescape just to make money?

[Content]

By my own stupidity

 

 

Yep, it's not the fault of free trade.

[Logdotzip]

By my own stupidity

 

 

Yep, it's not the fault of free trade.

 

 

 

Try reading the thread, you'll look less of an idiot.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Aside from having a hard time selling my stuff on the G.E. and going to ZMI for RC, I haven't changed my gameplay since free trade has come back.

 

I was never into staking and instant wealth. I prefer to work and "grind" for my levels so I don't feel in any similar way to you.

:mellow: Same. Perhaps thats why the update hasn't taken the wind out of my sails like it has some. Oh well.

[Bladewing]

By my own stupidity

 

 

Yep, it's not the fault of free trade.

 

 

 

Try reading the thread, you'll look less of an idiot.

not really, he's right you know. staking is 50/50 odds under the best conditions, and knowing that there are bugs you're probably looking at 40/60 or 45/55. even 49/51, it doesn't matter - staking is a losing game unless you have some shenanigans of your own to pull (be it bug abuse, switching rules, or having specialised stats like 99134th pure).

 

i worked for all the gp i have, and i'm not stupid enough to bet it in a losing game.

[BioIce]

The Duel Arena is a casino. That's what makes it so horrible yet so great at the same time. If you've had 2b+ for more than what looked like a very, very short period of time you might not be in your current funk, I think. You saw another world so close to your grasp only to get the rug pulled from under you. It sounds like you need a detox.

 

Heh. Try this for a while, it was my - and my friends' - personal remedy. Go to the wild with nothing but food at the start, try to survive with whatever you can get your hands on or make out of nothing while up there, and live for as long as possible. You may only visit a bank twice. You may world hop to avoid pkers. Feel free to do whatever you want in the wild - just don't die. And if you do, log off and come back tomorrow. If the adrenaline doesn't clean out your system then I don't know what will.

[HunterDexter]

I too have lost the feeling with RuneScape, my main is untouched since the announcement of free trade and wildy. I simply don't have any joy left in training my levels with hard earned coins (90% came from hunter, when it was just released), now anyone can once again just buy their gold, stake billions within a minute etcetera.

I don't call it rational, but my urge to complete anything on RS just vanished about a month ago.

[Logdotzip]

By my own stupidity

 

 

Yep, it's not the fault of free trade.

 

 

 

Try reading the thread, you'll look less of an idiot.

not really, he's right you know. staking is 50/50 odds under the best conditions, and knowing that there are bugs you're probably looking at 40/60 or 45/55. even 49/51, it doesn't matter - staking is a losing game unless you have some shenanigans of your own to pull (be it bug abuse, switching rules, or having specialised stats like 99134th pure).

 

i worked for all the gp i have, and i'm not stupid enough to bet it in a losing game.

 

What you and him seem to be missing is that this thread isn't blaming free trade or staking for me losing money, obviously that was my own doing. The thread is here explaining my situation and to see if anyone else feels discouraged from playing the game as a result of these updates, regardless of if you've won/lost anything staking

[xpx]

I don't think you can just bluntly blame free trade for it. If you are that insecure to judge your wealth with the luckiest and the richest, no wonder you can't play the game. It's you, not the game that is being broken. Free trade can't change the way you play if you don't let it.

[I_am_Geed]

I am sorry for you loss, even though it was by your own hand. :(

[Bladewing]

[hide]

By my own stupidity

 

 

Yep, it's not the fault of free trade.

 

 

 

Try reading the thread, you'll look less of an idiot.

not really, he's right you know. staking is 50/50 odds under the best conditions, and knowing that there are bugs you're probably looking at 40/60 or 45/55. even 49/51, it doesn't matter - staking is a losing game unless you have some shenanigans of your own to pull (be it bug abuse, switching rules, or having specialised stats like 99134th pure).

 

i worked for all the gp i have, and i'm not stupid enough to bet it in a losing game.

[/hide]

 

What you and him seem to be missing is that this thread isn't blaming free trade or staking for me losing money, obviously that was my own doing. The thread is here explaining my situation and to see if anyone else feels discouraged from playing the game as a result of these updates, regardless of if you've won/lost anything staking

...

 

"i am discouraged because i lost money staking"

>free trade's fault

 

no, i am not discouraged from playing due to free trade at all. if i lose a big pile of money (like when i was pked in my own poh for about a quarter of my bank in 2008) yeah it can discourage me

 

but this is not about the new updates, this belongs in the rant thread "how i lost my items by dying or otherwise".

 

whatever you do, please dear god don't write a tip.it times article on it :pray:

[Logdotzip]

I don't think you can just bluntly blame free trade for it. If you are that insecure to judge your wealth with the luckiest and the richest, no wonder you can't play the game. It's you, not the game that is being broken. Free trade can't change the way you play if you don't let it.

 

I've gone ahead and added a simple disclaimer to the original post for those who can't seem to grasp the concept of the message I am trying to convey here. No one seems to get that I am not blaming the updates for what I have lost money wise (Nor did I ever even say that anywhere originally), I am stating that because of the updates in general, it's hard to go back to what I considered good money, when others are 100xing that in minutes.

[Bladewing]

stop comparing yourself to others and you'll be fine :thumbup:

 

it's a game, not the olympics of merchanting

[muuuuuuuuuu]

Needless to say, luck (and PID) was not in my favor, so I stand here at the duel arena bank and look at my ~60k gold.

Damn, I never knew principle ideal domains could have such an effect on wealth in runescape!

[xpx]

I don't think you can just bluntly blame free trade for it. If you are that insecure to judge your wealth with the luckiest and the richest, no wonder you can't play the game. It's you, not the game that is being broken. Free trade can't change the way you play if you don't let it.

 

I've gone ahead and added a simple disclaimer to the original post for those who can't seem to grasp the concept of the message I am trying to convey here. No one seems to get that I am not blaming the updates for what I have lost money wise (Nor did I ever even say that anywhere originally), I am stating that because of the updates in general, it's hard to go back to what I considered good money, when others are 100xing that in minutes.

That's still blaming free trade. You shouldn't even care what others can do as staking is 50/50, pking isn't a major moneymaker and marching didn't become significantly better because of this update.

[Logdotzip]

stop comparing yourself to others and you'll be fine :thumbup:

 

it's a game, not the olympics of merchanting

 

You are playing a videogame with millions of others. If there wasn't meant to be comparisons, highscores wouldn't exist, decorative forms of armor wouldn't exist, and hell, it'd probably be a single player game. You should really start thinking your posts through before you hit the reply button, because you're way out in left field here with regards to what I am saying in this thread.

 

 

All I am asking here is if other people have lost interest in the game from these updates, and how. I merely used staking in the thread to explain how I lost mine.

 

THE THREAD IS NOT ABOUT STAKING OR MONEY MAKING. It's about how you play the game yourself. I play it to make money, which is why I focus on that most.

[Ts_Stormrage]

What I read was "Hi I am L.Z and I am a gambling addict"...

 

Powerful stuff, if you ask me, and I can completely understand why someone would feel that there is no motivation to play RS anymore after that...

 

Say what you will, but this too is an indirect result of Free Trade coming back...

As I said in my article this week: Perhaps it was a good thing that you couldn't just give your Phat collection away...

[Bladewing]

stop comparing yourself to others and you'll be fine :thumbup:

 

it's a game, not the olympics of merchanting

 

You are playing a videogame with millions of others. If there wasn't meant to be comparisons, highscores wouldn't exist, decorative forms of armor wouldn't exist, and hell, it'd probably be a single player game. You should really start thinking your posts through before you hit the reply button, because you're way out in left field here with regards to what I am saying in this thread.

yes there are other players, and of course comparisons. people will be better than me and people will be worse than me.

 

i should have been clearer: don't let it get to you. one of my friends went from 100m to over double my bank (accumulated over 7 years) in less than a week, but i don't let it affect my gameplay or how i view my own accomplishments.

[Smapla]

To stop those saying that this only effects stakers... I too feel the same way, though I have never once staked in my life (well i mean, 'risked' staking or whatever it is when you gamble items)

 

yet I too feel like my accomplishments pale in comparison to those who thoughtlessly bet ten times my bank on a minute of fighting. It's really discouraging.

[DyingSilent]

Hmmm...Quite a bit of food for thought. I agree, the update itself has really killed a lot of my motivation to play. Yeah, the update was good IMO...I loved Dh pking again, loved getting actual drops from killing people, loved giving my friends gifts. But for me, it was too much of a rush all at once. I got burnt out from it after 2 days. There really isn't much motivation left. One thing that kept me going the past few months, aside from my friends, was the promise of a divine for trade price. That motivation is GONE. Now "trade price" is "street price."

 

And as previously mentioned, the amount of cash you can make staking/pking (mainly focusing on staking), is considerably more than MHing for a drop. I'm 4+ months, 1k+ kills, dry for claws at Tormented Demons right now. A friend of mine PKed 2 claws in one night, while another friend can win a set of claws on a game of luck staking. I'm happy for them, don't get me wrong, but the fact of the matter is....when people can get a set of claws from staking in ~60 seconds, that puts me off killing Tormented Demons for 4 months, without a set of claws.

 

Maybe I'm just a little ticked that my luck MHing in this game sucks, but regardless, I die a little inside every time I get that PM: "Got another set of claws from _______" (Pking/Staking).

[Golvellius]

 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not blaming The updates for my loss of money on RS, this is obviously my fault. I am simply asking if others have lost interest in the game as a RESULT of the update, knowing that while you grind away doing your daily activities, some lucky others are making fortunes you can only imagine having.

 

All I am asking here is if other people have lost interest in the game from these updates, and how. I merely used staking in the thread to explain how I lost mine.

 

THE THREAD IS NOT ABOUT STAKING OR MONEY MAKING. It's about how you play the game yourself. I play it to make money, which is why I focus on that most.

 

Man, I can't get enough of these woo is me because of free trade threads. :shades:

You people are proof that runescape wasn't ready for free trade.

 

Hey look on the bright side, at least you know how you lost that shed load of gp.

Just imagine being the poor knucklehead who downloaded a trojann-laden 3rd party thing and wakes up the next day with nothing in their bank.

 

Pro tip: Invest in fun not gp/items, thats what free trade rs was all about back in the day :smile:

[mcneilp]

I can't say the game has affected my will to play as I've just started properly playing again recently but free trade has done nothing for me so far that I couldn't do before, except make it a bit harder to get rid of some stuff on the GE.

 

The pictures of folks winning more money than I've ever had in one 1vs1 fight can be off-putting; I've been trying to raise the money for Herb for ages, I see someone win 300M in a single stake, it makes all the time I've put into skilling for money pale in significance. I just accept that, like gambling, you get lucky now and again and win a big stake.You'll lose a few as well but when you see the picture of someone winning Millions in a fight, you forget all about how much they may have lost before that big win.

If people are willing to take the risk gambling fortunes on the outcome of a single fight then fair play to them but it's not for me as I know how much effort I've put into acquiring X amount of cash and the thought of losing all that work in the space of a couple of minutes isn't something I'd fancy going through.

 

I may have went off topic a bit there but hey.