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This is why you don't stake. Pking is more fun regardless of the outcome and you'll never risk losing your bank.

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Ouch N64jive, that is one bad beat. That's poker though.

 

Slightly off topic, NOT calling anyone a kid NOT calling anyone a RWTer:

 

But free trade is kinda messed up, cause kids play this game. Some of them like staking. Staking is addicting as it has many qualities of gambling. Some of them like to RWT.

 

GP = Money to those particular kids.

 

Therefore, Some kids (those who play RS, stake, and RWT) are gambling. And besides kids, many adults are gambling through RS. Yet, there are no warning labels. It doesn't matter if pixels are Jagex's property, there should still be a warning, as Jagex does not have the resources to track everyone.

 

I've said it for years, but I'm still surprised there hasn't been any sort of legislation for at least warning labels on MMORPGS in any countries yet.


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I'm amazed so many people still haven't gotten the message that OP isn't blaming free trade for his loss. He knows that his loss was because of his own stupidity. What he's saying is that with the advent of free trade he's less inclined to play actively with that financially secure feeling. Free trade has allowed prices to become more volatile and thus make merchanting easier for both experienced and clever merchants. He lost 850 mill and dreads the idea of gaining it back because he isn't as adept at others at making ridiculous amounts of money an hour ranging from the double digits of millions to the triple digits! Why should he take so long to gain back the capital using something that he has experience in that's been a proven way of making good cash for years, when he knows that people in emerging niche interests can generate the same, or an even greater amount of capital in a fraction of that time? It's discouraging for him. Four years ago making one million gp an hour with double nature crafting would be considered high level money making.

 

Now, the return of free trade has allowed people with little experience in those traditional money making areas such as skilling and monster hunting to make that amount of money in at least a tenth of the time it would take a Rune Crafter to accrue that much capital. Simply put, the divide between what was traditionally considered a powerful method and niche skills of making money falters in the face of high-level merchanting. I'm not surprised though. This is an extension of a phenomenon that's been occurring for some time. Skillers have long complained about how several skills like woodcutting and mining were the traditional and long-held methods of accruing significant financial capital in the game. With more powerful bosses being released, and subsequent new armors to be dropped along with the release of armors and weapons and potions to make boss killing easier, skillers feel that they have been shafted because there are people they think are putting little effort into their gains. But such is with the art of monster hunting. You know you risk a significant amount when you attempt to loot-share Corporeal Beast, for example, hoping for a split of a divine sigil drop.

 

Some will argue that the risk is worth the reward. I agree. However, what he's comparing is risk vs reward to a steady amount of income. Skilling is indeed a steady amount of income because the goods produced will be easily sold because there's always a steady demand for those exhaustible commodities, and goods are produced at a constant rate. Staking is an example of a "risk vs reward" type of generating capital, obviously. You choose to risk whatever you have and fight your best to win the spoils of the duel. Just because chances are 50/50 on the surface doesn't mean the odds of winning are equally in favor for both dueling parties though. There are certainly many factors as per what's allowed to be used in the duel, and armor strengths and weapon strengths, and different strategies that can all be executed different ways for similar strategies, that can turn the fight in one's favor. Considering these factors, what seems like a 50/50 fight actually turns into a 10/100 fight in one of the worse case scenarios for you.

 

Merchanting is a hybrid of risk vs reward and a steady income because it (usually) involves dealing with flipping exhaustible commodities. However market conditions have been made more volatile with the return of free trade, so the uncertainty in flipping has made the activity more risk than steady income. Considering now that the risk aspect has been significantly increased, it can now be comparable more-so with monster hunting. What the OP is complaining about is that the reward for merchanting and staking, is marginalizing the efforts of 'legitimate' players who invest more effort into what they produce, and the subsequent discouragement from attempting to engage in what used to be considered a traditional money making method is no longer reliable for meeting the same standards of today's level of capital. Thus, he has become disinterested in playing, because his gaming experience was mostly based on generating cash, and he doesn't want to slave away at regaining 850 mill when others can make 850 mill with relatively little effort, but great risk.

 

This is what it would be like if he blamed free trade for his losses:

 

"I lost all my cash staking it away. I blame free trade."

 

No, he has recognized that it is his own stupidity -- for lack of better term -- that's depleted his capital. What he's really saying is:

 

"I lost all my cash staking it away, but I realize I lost my cash because I didn't stop when I should've. Now, I'm faced with the option of regaining that cash because I have the levels to engage in high level money making methods. However, in comparison to what others can receive staking, I feel discouraged from doing so because there are people who are adept at staking who can make as much as I lost with little effort. I have to work for my capital; others don't. Risk generates their capital, hard work generates mine."

 

He recognizes that free trade has contributed to the "caps" of many methods being raised through the roof so to speak. No price limits or trade limits means junk trading is now a viable option for subscribing to street prices to obtain that rare item. Why it works is because there's demand and no supply. The way the system worked before free trade was introduced is that it marginalized supply with the trade limit -- no one could sell for the desired, "true" street price of an item. That increases demand. The supply can now more easily meet with the demand because those obstructions have been removed. He's merely stating that staking has felt the same effects of this obstruction being removed in comparison to other methods of generating capital.

 

However, free trade is not the cause of his loss at all. It is his cause of disinterest because it has augmented various pre-existing methods that were restricted in the reward department because you could only trade so much. Now, the risk -- the chance of winning -- is the same, but the reward is greater because those caps have been removed. Knowing that others invest little risk into their gameplay experience -- as he realizes that gameplay is subjective -- for greater rewards, it's discouraged him from playing the game because his way revolved around capital.

 

He anticipated that free trade would improve his experience because his gameplay revolved around money, and free trade is directly involved with capital. It has done just for the opposite for him. I can sympathize with him -- green dragons are no longer a viable moneymaker for me.


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Similar problem to OP only I lost about 20M overtime staking. Like the above poster said, I found out I was addicted to gambling.


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Ouch N64jive, that is one bad beat. That's poker though.

 

Slightly off topic, NOT calling anyone a kid NOT calling anyone a RWTer:

 

But free trade is kinda messed up, cause kids play this game. Some of them like staking. Staking is addicting as it has many qualities of gambling. Some of them like to RWT.

 

GP = Money to those particular kids.

 

Therefore, Some kids (those who play RS, stake, and RWT) are gambling. And besides kids, many adults are gambling through RS. Yet, there are no warning labels. It doesn't matter if pixels are Jagex's property, there should still be a warning, as Jagex does not have the resources to track everyone.

 

I've said it for years, but I'm still surprised there hasn't been any sort of legislation for at least warning labels on MMORPGS in any countries yet.

They do have the resources to track and they have done it before. However, they don't refund things simply because if they made one exception, every single noob would come stampeding from the woodwork and demand "free st00f pl0x" because they "got hacked/scammed/lured/etc." It's far simpler to just say "no" to everybody.


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I'm amazed so many people still haven't gotten the message that OP isn't blaming free trade for his loss. He knows that his loss was because of his own stupidity. What he's saying is that with the advent of free trade he's less inclined to play actively with that financially secure feeling. Free trade has allowed prices to become more volatile and thus make merchanting easier for both experienced and clever merchants. He lost 850 mill and dreads the idea of gaining it back because he isn't as adept at others at making ridiculous amounts of money an hour ranging from the double digits of millions to the triple digits! Why should he take so long to gain back the capital using something that he has experience in that's been a proven way of making good cash for years, when he knows that people in emerging niche interests can generate the same, or an even greater amount of capital in a fraction of that time? It's discouraging for him. Four years ago making one million gp an hour with double nature crafting would be considered high level money making.

 

Now, the return of free trade has allowed people with little experience in those traditional money making areas such as skilling and monster hunting to make that amount of money in at least a tenth of the time it would take a Rune Crafter to accrue that much capital. Simply put, the divide between what was traditionally considered a powerful method and niche skills of making money falters in the face of high-level merchanting. I'm not surprised though. This is an extension of a phenomenon that's been occurring for some time. Skillers have long complained about how several skills like woodcutting and mining were the traditional and long-held methods of accruing significant financial capital in the game. With more powerful bosses being released, and subsequent new armors to be dropped along with the release of armors and weapons and potions to make boss killing easier, skillers feel that they have been shafted because there are people they think are putting little effort into their gains. But such is with the art of monster hunting. You know you risk a significant amount when you attempt to loot-share Corporeal Beast, for example, hoping for a split of a divine sigil drop.

 

Some will argue that the risk is worth the reward. I agree. However, what he's comparing is risk vs reward to a steady amount of income. Skilling is indeed a steady amount of income because the goods produced will be easily sold because there's always a steady demand for those exhaustible commodities, and goods are produced at a constant rate. Staking is an example of a "risk vs reward" type of generating capital, obviously. You choose to risk whatever you have and fight your best to win the spoils of the duel. Just because chances are 50/50 on the surface doesn't mean the odds of winning are equally in favor for both dueling parties though. There are certainly many factors as per what's allowed to be used in the duel, and armor strengths and weapon strengths, and different strategies that can all be executed different ways for similar strategies, that can turn the fight in one's favor. Considering these factors, what seems like a 50/50 fight actually turns into a 10/100 fight in one of the worse case scenarios for you.

 

Merchanting is a hybrid of risk vs reward and a steady income because it (usually) involves dealing with flipping exhaustible commodities. However market conditions have been made more volatile with the return of free trade, so the uncertainty in flipping has made the activity more risk than steady income. Considering now that the risk aspect has been significantly increased, it can now be comparable more-so with monster hunting. What the OP is complaining about is that the reward for merchanting and staking, is marginalizing the efforts of 'legitimate' players who invest more effort into what they produce, and the subsequent discouragement from attempting to engage in what used to be considered a traditional money making method is no longer reliable for meeting the same standards of today's level of capital. Thus, he has become disinterested in playing, because his gaming experience was mostly based on generating cash, and he doesn't want to slave away at regaining 850 mill when others can make 850 mill with relatively little effort, but great risk.

 

This is what it would be like if he blamed free trade for his losses:

 

"I lost all my cash staking it away. I blame free trade."

 

No, he has recognized that it is his own stupidity -- for lack of better term -- that's depleted his capital. What he's really saying is:

 

"I lost all my cash staking it away, but I realize I lost my cash because I didn't stop when I should've. Now, I'm faced with the option of regaining that cash because I have the levels to engage in high level money making methods. However, in comparison to what others can receive staking, I feel discouraged from doing so because there are people who are adept at staking who can make as much as I lost with little effort. I have to work for my capital; others don't. Risk generates their capital, hard work generates mine."

 

He recognizes that free trade has contributed to the "caps" of many methods being raised through the roof so to speak. No price limits or trade limits means junk trading is now a viable option for subscribing to street prices to obtain that rare item. Why it works is because there's demand and no supply. The way the system worked before free trade was introduced is that it marginalized supply with the trade limit -- no one could sell for the desired, "true" street price of an item. That increases demand. The supply can now more easily meet with the demand because those obstructions have been removed. He's merely stating that staking has felt the same effects of this obstruction being removed in comparison to other methods of generating capital.

 

However, free trade is not the cause of his loss at all. It is his cause of disinterest because it has augmented various pre-existing methods that were restricted in the reward department because you could only trade so much. Now, the risk -- the chance of winning -- is the same, but the reward is greater because those caps have been removed. Knowing that others invest little risk into their gameplay experience -- as he realizes that gameplay is subjective -- for greater rewards, it's discouraged him from playing the game because his way revolved around capital.

 

He anticipated that free trade would improve his experience because his gameplay revolved around money, and free trade is directly involved with capital. It has done just for the opposite for him. I can sympathize with him -- green dragons are no longer a viable moneymaker for me.

 

 

Could not have worded it better myself, thank you for taking the time to type out was having trouble wording. Or maybe some people are just stupid, because you seem to have gotten my point spot on.

 

 

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I feel the same way. While slaying frosts there's always the thought in my head that I could potentially stake the money I'm making and save a few trips or not have to kill them at all. It's just hard to stay focused on money making when you know there's the potential to double your bank in a few seconds instead of 100+ hours.


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Yawn I see your point however even if you solely play to make money, what makes you think that you are the luckiest or smartest guy in the game. Face it, the fact is there is always a bigger fish, and it bugs a lot of people knowing that someone is making millions/billions off a good trade or a lucky stake while everyone else slaves away at traditional money makers.

 

 

You can rage quit, or you can learn the intricate mechanics of staking, and try to earn your way back, through determination and LUCK. Other then that flipping is a good compromise between the worlds of high risk and traditional. You could potentially earn millions a day without slaving away at a boss monster waiting for that lucky drop, and you arent going to get your banked wiped out on a bad trade (maybe a total scam might do it but otherwise things you hold should keep some value.

 

 

 

 

 

In short yes there is always going to be someone who makes money 10x faster then you will ever be able to. Either rise to the occasion or do traditional money makers or just rage quit, the choice is yours and you've already shown us your decision.

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I was a bit surprised that Jagex let staking back in. For most people it is pure gambling (there are some specialized stakers whose stats make is less of a gambling activity). Not really an activity therefore that should be encouraged in a game that is full of younger people.

 

And stupidity isn't the reason people cannot stop once they start losing. It is just human psychology. That's why there are laws in most countries that prohibit the underaged from gambling. Not that gambling addiction is not present in adults. It's just that we assume they are 'more' responsible for their actions. Needless to say that doesn't prohibit millions of adults from acquiring a gambling addiction.

 

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. You fell into a trap, a trap where countless people have falling in. Not because they are stupid, but because they are human.

 

I hope that can find some motivation to play the game in a different way.


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I understand what you're trying to say and I do sympathize with your situation. I feel the same way even though I've never pushed a cashstack over 1b.

 

What I learned is that I need to take this game less seriously and just relax when staking because there are far worse things than losing a sum of cash.


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I doubled my cash then lost 3/4 of it staking, I totally hear where you're coming from. It's really hard to go back to conventional moneymaking when the fact that you could make it all in a single stake is nagging at your head.


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It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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A quote that I will time and time again state:

 

"In the casino, the cardinal rule is to keep them playing and to keep them coming back. The more they play, the more they lose, and in the end, they lose it all. Running a casino is like robbing a bank with no cops around."

 

On the topic of Wilderness, and pking...

 

And you love pking, try what Icegiant99 does:

 

Wear strength boosting gear with no plate or legs, and a tyras helm. Not only do you risk a lot less than you normally would, you also have a far better chance of a good vengeance and doing a quick KO.

 

Method: Wear the above, and be pre-vengeanced with recoil ring (must be done 30 seconds or more before the fight).

 

Fight player using an Ags, and when vengeance hits, vengeance again and special. All it requires is a little luck and you could be reaping in rewards whilst risking as little as 80k a fight.

 

It's also good to know the alchemy values by heart as well. If you see a Dragon Scimitar->Dragon Clawer wearing a Dragon Square Shield, you'll get claws. Food for thought

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I think I actually do get your point. I'm hoping to be able to buy a Divine spirit shield one day myself, but when I think about getting the money. I just get discouraged. Runescape was and is a MMORPG and in a RPG, skills and experience matter to gain money, wether it is through skilling or monster-hunting. But nowadays, earning the big money hardly requires any (trainable) skills at all. This wouldn't be a problem at all, was it not that the economy seems to be based on those high gains of money, seeing the prices of some more elusive items, as Zaros Armour, Spirit Shields and if you want you can include rares. From that perspective I do hold the update of 1 February responsible for at least a fair share of that.

 

The return of staking brought immense cash gains/losts with it and the total freedom of the Grand Exchange made it possible for normal people without junk, from who other normal people could buy expensive items without junk, to sell there expensive items at a much higher price, thus making it for the normal lads even more impossible to buy those things, since the classic moneymaking methods just don't suffice anymore to gain the money. It makes me a sad panda


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Isn't this similar to the private server syndrome thread? You have seen how valueless gp really is so you can no longer force yourself to grind for it?

 

No, because I don't find it valueless, I just find old conventional methods of moneymaking now fruitless.

The "conventional" methods of moneymaking arent fruitless, its obviously the new ones that are. The real winners are the people who, just like in the real world, are producing things, whether its services or products. Staking and flipping is only redistributing wealth that already existed. And just like in the real world, some people win big, either on dishonesty or on playing the market. The RS economy is once again a simulation of the real world economy, and this is a shock to many people, and may make them feel that the petty things they are doing are pointless.

 

 

BOTTOM LINE: Relax people, the economy is no bigger or smaller than it was before, the already existing money is just being redistributed. Make money the hard way, its much easier.


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I understand where you're coming from, and no it's not really your fault, it's because of recent glitches in the Duel Arena.

 

Though if I were you I would never ever stake to make cash. It's just too risky in my opinion.


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I doubled my cash then lost 3/4 of it staking, I totally hear where you're coming from. It's really hard to go back to conventional moneymaking when the fact that you could make it all in a single stake is nagging at your head.

 

This is exactly why I don't stake, because it's actually not a money maker in the long run. It gives the illusion that it is, and it can be only if you quit while you're ahead. But since stakes are 50/50, it is pretty clear you'll only be breaking even eventually. I mean if you had the chance to gamble away 50% of your assets in real life for a 50/50 chance of doubling it, would you do it? I know I wouldn't. Granted runescape is only a video game, but you can still apply that same kind of risk/reward logic to it. The OP also mentions this:

 

"Why slave away clicking endlessly, actually putting effort into something, only to make 1/100th of some lucky guy in three times the time it took him. It leaves me in a bad spot."

 

Keep in mind there's also some unlucky guy that lost 100% of his money. Stakes are 50/50 right? So for every lucky guy there's also one unlucky guy. Sometimes I think people just need to actually appreciate what they have and not take it for granted. Imagine for a second that the OP hadn't done any staking at all. The OP stated that he had 850m, Would he have been in this predicament and been thinking about quitting had he kept his money? Sure it takes a lot of clicking to get to 850m, but that's all the more reason in my eyes to be careful with what you have.

 

Thus my advice: If you want to quit runescape, stake your bank away. simple as that. Keep in mind this post is not a dig at the OP, as greed gets the best of all of us. However it's important to keep in mind there's always a lesson to be learned, which you unfortunately have learned the hard way.

 

One last thing, I'll also be one to disagree with you in blaming Free Trade. Free trade is independent of staking. Free trade brought about the removal of trade limits, staking coming back was just a byproduct of free trade coming back. Unless of course you are blaming free trade because of the staking limits being removed, but if you were that's a bit misleading because most people think of free trade as being the removal of trading limits for items, both in the GE and outside. Whatever you are blaming, I think that blame may be a bit misplaced as you have noone to blame but yourself. You made the decision to stake and knew the risks you were getting into, it's not like the duel arena "forced" you to stake. There's always a choice.

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I play as I have always played. I have never staked and probably never will, because I do know what gambling is.


"An Amateur practices until he can get it right. A Professional practices until he can't get it wrong."

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Quests just keep bringing me back to this game.

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I've always thought runescape had too much gambling in it, this extrends beyond staking and dm'ing, coming down to every drop you get, it's gambling. Taking free trade away helped to alleviate a lot of that. People tried to work hard for wealth instead of counting only on luck and gambling.

 

There is a reason why irl there are minimum gambling ages (18-21 depending on your state/country) , to prevent things that happened to you. Now these days people are back to counting on only luck and begging again...


I would prefer even to fail with honor than to win by cheating - Sophocles

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I know what you're coming from. I have fortunately never staked, and probably never will. The problem is when you start staking it becomes an addiction. You want to stake more and more to double your money fast. Just like in a casino. I'm not going to say always, but 99% of the time, you lose all or a large portion of your money. The solution is to use small amounts or don't do it at all.

 

As for the economic advantage, there really is none, theoretically at least. Look at your instance (which is probably the same as for others). You lost the majority of your bank. I'm positive there's many people like you out there who lost vast amounts of cash by dueling. Those who are getting rich are statistically the smaller portion of those who actually duel. The reason why it seems like so many people are getting rich is because you tend to notice the large amounts more.


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Before free trade I had hopes to be able to snipe a divine at 600m or so. Not anymore :P. Ah well it's only 50% more anyway.


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I've always thought runescape had too much gambling in it, this extrends beyond staking and dm'ing, coming down to every drop you get, it's gambling. Taking free trade away helped to alleviate a lot of that. People tried to work hard for wealth instead of counting only on luck and gambling.

 

There is a reason why irl there are minimum gambling ages (18-21 depending on your state/country) , to prevent things that happened to you. Now these days people are back to counting on only luck and begging again...

hi im not sure if you're new or been under a rock for 3 years but pking in bh was pretty much gambling


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Get people to donate climbing boots to you. If you can't beat Youtube heroes then join them :thumbsup:

 

you already have an easily exploitable gimmick you can abuse for more fame so go for it

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