Prior to the release of clan wars there was only the big clans of Zybez. Clan wars changed all that, it gave everybody a chance at warring, they could see what it was like, and most of them thoroughly enjoyed it.
Gotta disagree with that, prior to the release of Clan Wars (i.e. the 'old wilderness') there was much more activity from small and mid-level clans. The RAW list used to have 50 clans on it, with 25 more on the waiting list. Only the top 10 or so were 'big' clans, the rest were mid- and small-sized clans. If anything, Clan Wars killed off a lot of the mid-level clans.
When I was a CL here I really felt that the TWR needed to go to a wildernerss-based format to be able to thrive and grow. Clan Wars was fine when that was all we had, but now there is an alternative and Clan Wars is left for those who are too weak or inexperienced or nervous to fight in the wilderness.
With the return of the wilderness there's really no reason why any clan would want to do Clan Wars anymore. Clan Wars is a very narrow slice of the total warring experience. If you are in a melee+binds only clan (which most TWR clans were when it was really going well) then you basically negate 90% of the warring experience.
Cons of Clan Wars (melee+binds):
1. Little or no emotion attached - If you die, you lose nothing. So most people are willing to bind, but not in the real wilderness. Binding in the real wilderness makes you an instant target for the other clan's snipers. And when you die, you lose 200k. In Clan Wars, if you're sniped you put up pray and run around a wall until it stops. In the wilderness, you get camped by snipers until you die or quit binding. Only the most dedicated will keep binding through snipers. It's a real difference.
2. Only planned fights occur (no chance encounters) - One of the great joys of rivalries is hunting your rival. In Clan Wars you can't do this. You have to ask them nicely for a fight. Which sucks. Which is more fun: "Pleeeeese fight us on Saturday at 2:00 PM, matched options, no dungeoneering or corrupt items" or "If you step in the wildy, we will kill you and all your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Mwuhahahahahahahahaha!"
Quick counter to those who say "you might not get a fight at all in the wilderness!" You will almost always find action. In RSD right now, very few clans want to fight us because we have the capability to pull 120+ people. But we still find a fight almost every day.
3. Too many rules (limitations) in Clan Wars - Melee + binds only, no range, no blasts, no dungeoneering items, no corrupt items, etc. etc. etc. Yawn. If a wilderness fight has rules, it's only to establish boundaries or sniper caps. Most fights don't even have those. Fight until the other guy quits is a lot more enjoyable.
4. Loss of 2/3 of the combat triangle (no blasts, no range) - Similar to #3, it's way too limiting. What incentive is there for mid-level clans to train range when it's never allowed? I remember back in '07 or so Dragonwood made a name for themelves with their range unit. They had a lot of maxed rangers in a medium-level clan and really used it to their advantage. In Clan Wars with all it's rules and limitations, what's the point in doing this?
5. No looting - Not just rune, which is nice, but supplies as well. With the return of the 'old wildy' we can now loot runes, food, arrows, and basically stay on the battlefield indefinitely. For the clan that is winning it increases their advantage as they don't have to return as much and will cut down on outlasting.
6. No returning - In Clan Wars it takes only 30 seconds or so to return, or if you got KO'ed, literally 1 second to return. It's lame.
7. No publicity - This might be the most important thing for Tip.it should they ever switch to a wildy-based TWR. When we (RSD) fight another big clan there's usually 100's of extra people around throughout the fight. There's AC'ers, crashers, looters, and watchers, all playing minor roles in the fight. So when our topic goes up on RSC, there's literally 300-400 people who had some part in the fight, and another 100 who want to post simply to antagonize the people who were there. For better or worse, that one fight will generate more posts than 50 Tip.it fights. Not many people care about Clan Wars, look at the Clan Wars topics on RSC, they rarely get more than 3 pages of responses, which there is a dead topic.
With lots of posts come lots of trolls. Tip.it has been up until now very restrictive of trolling, which has obviously driven the trolls away, but it also drives away a lot of the drama and argumentitive posts. In a Tip.it fight post, 95% of the responses are 'good fight' or some variation of that. On RSC, 50% of the posts are 'good fight' and the other 50% are people arguing about some point or other.
If Tip.it wants to get away from the 'small clan' image, it will have to go out of its way to do so. My idea was to have a ranking system that included PKRI's as a valid war, but that's just one idea. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Unfortunately that's what's going on with the TWR right now. Most everyone would agree that the current system isn't driving good activity or any new activity, but none are willing to change it.
Pro's of Clan Wars:
No Crashing - Except for unsecured CC's and portal hopping.
Feel free to debate any or all of these points, or add your own
•How Do we attract these people form Runescape to Tip.It
•How do we change the notoriously conservative attitude of the average RSoF User?
While several people do graduate from RSB clans to RSC and Tip.it clanning, most do not. I don't know if it's their conservative nature or just an unwillingness to leave their comfort zone, but I don't see a lot of RSB graduates. A few, but not a lot.
I think one thing that has hurt mid-level clanning is when Clan Wars came around, the clans who really loved the wildy slowly died out. And with their departure were their non-wildy events. I remember back in TDM when it was really active we had 2-3 wars and PK's a week, but also another 10-15 non-wildy events that were visible to the non-clanning world. If you see 15 people killing Bandos, or 40 fishing at Catherby, it might make you want to join one of those clans. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-wildy clanning event in RS . . it's been a while. No events = no publicity.
•Get the forums active
•Get New Posters
•Get Good, Meanigful Discussions running on a consistent basis
•Chilax a little with the rules. I know it's often said the mods are more lenient here than anywhere else on the forums, but still, I think action should only be taken against a player if they spam, start a flame war or directly insult a member of staff.
•Unban the banned
•Advertise CD on other parts of the form - this gets new posters in which picks up activity which will bring old posters back!
Your first three points here are pretty well summed up with the third point about good, meaningful discussions. Do that, and people will want to contribute. Build it, and they will come
Unbanning the banned - Don't really agree with this one. Most of the people who are banned are banned for good reason. And no one gets banned without several warnings in advance, so they knew what was coming but chose to continue their bad behavior anyways. Rules are rules, and you follow them . . . posting on Tip.it is a priveledge, not a right. Abuse it and it's gone. I agree with that. I do also agree, however, that if we want increased activity there needs to be a lenient approach to arguments, as long as they are related to in-game things. Once they cross into personal insults and flames, that's where the line is crossed.
As for Tacatar it's not her first language - and if i remember correctly, you speak just one. So her to speak two, she's doing pretty good in my book. I value her versatility in that department. Sure her English isn't perfect, but mine isn't either.
Cool, it's a shame we are on a english runescape board though and not in Asia looking to hiring a translator.
You know, when you post [wagon] comments that's all people will take away from them; is that you're an [wagon]. All the good points you might have made are lost. The previous Clan Staff who've worked with you all seem to think you're fairly intelligent and could do good things if you wanted to, but all I see is an [wagon].
The personal attack on her on this topic is an example of the attitude of posting we shouldn't be seeing here, not because it's rude but because it makes our forums just like RSC. We all know what RSC forums are like and I'm not prepared to let Tip.It stoop down to RSC's level, and neither would anybody moderating the clan forums.
If the goal of Tip.it is to become much more active, then some amount of debate and/or argument needs to be allowed to transpire. 'Good fight' comments are boring to read and won't attract much attention. Nor do Clan Wars fights. So a little bit of RSC-style posts aren't all bad.
Regarding Pan's post, it's outright insulting and a direct attack on one person's attempt to speak in a second language. Taca is one of the most active CL's I've seen in quite a while and certainly not deserving of that kind of garbage. No clan community allows that kind of post, not even RSC. I'm amazed it hasn't been deleted already.
Secondly, I have personal thoughts about how we could improve TWR to expand the amount of clans posting on these forums. Like Das said, there's a big topic behind closed doors and once we have made a decision amongst ourselves about whether the ideas could work, we most likely will be discussing this with clan officials. I'm not going to give too much away, but we aren't sitting back letting this activity happen without consequence or change. I can promise you that much.
This isn't really directed at you Jack, since you've only been a CL for a short time. But that topic you're referring to has been up around a year, I know because I posted a proposal to change the TWR around then that evolved into a discussion of what we should and shouldn't do in regards to changing the TWR to make it more attractive. The end result of all that discussion was that nothing happened. There might be a new post up, but the concept isn't new. Hopefully you guys are able to make more happen than I was; when I was there we talked for over a year and couldn't agree on anything, and discussion topics in the Conclave went unanswered for the most part.
Over the past year we've (the Clan Staff) had several conversations and topics about how the TWR needs to change and adapt, and for over a year we've done nothing. During that time the TWR went from marginally active to completely inactive. The TWR in its current form is dead. Unless there is something new and exciting added, it will probably stay dead.