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Dungeonsweepers (DGS) - Huge changes; read first post.

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Speaking of lag, is there any way I can reduce door-lag in dungeon? As the dungeon starts to get more open I end up lagging for about 3/4 seconds, which usually ends up either wasting a few Prayer or Life points. Obviously it's particularly troublesome when you lag into a room with high level monsters that you can't hood.

 

I imagine having a ping close to 100 on W99 isn't helping, is it just going to be more effective to dungeoneer on other worlds?

Lower your graphics settings to reduce doorlag, turn off all other programs that are on in the background.

 

World 99 seems to be laggy for some, and not laggy for others.


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People in dgs seem to be very against using tokens on xp

 

 

 

After you've bought all the rewards that you want and upgraded your rings all the way, there is really not any use for tokens other than experience. I'm personally saving my tokens for when the next batch of rewards are released.


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to be honest i think its only worth it to spend on xp if it either gets you to whatever your goal is, or you're about to reset and you've got enough to reach another prestige level.

 

personally i've been using them on placeholders

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to be honest i think its only worth it to spend on xp if it either gets you to whatever your goal is, or you're about to reset and you've got enough to reach another prestige level.

Yes there isnt any other reason to use them on xp. By using them to reach another floor you are getting more than a 10% bonus to xp

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my speedtest results at the absolute best net, aka middle of night.

Ping:654

upload:.08mb/s

download:.29mb/s

this is constantly fluctating, and is normally much worse(about 800-1k ping generally) and is never predictable.

do I win yet?

This may sound mean but personally when I was having huge problems with internet I took a break from dungoneering and did stuff where my slow internet didn't slow down four other people.


PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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I haven't been dungeoneering, and normally, i dont do floors where my net effects the entire team, just showing how "good" my net is so i can learn whether or not I can still flick prayers. I stay away from all tf's.


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Your personal progress through the floor at all times affects the entire team.

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It depends on the team, one team will be affected greatly by it, while another won't at all. You can't make sweeping generalisations about dungeoneering.

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It depends on the team, one team will be affected greatly by it, while another won't at all. You can't make sweeping generalisations about dungeoneering.

 

Lol'd

Spamming is frowned upon.


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There are plenty of more important tactics to focus on than turmoil flicking that aren't dependent on lag. If your only issue is not turmoil flicking, it will be hardly noticeable.


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This is an extension to my discussion with (mainly) Nint about the value of a keyer doing a boss with the team as opposed to running doors while the rest of the team takes down the boss. While the discussion was going on in the CC, the flood of knee-jerk reactions stemming from misunderstanding my point moved the chat so quickly that nobody got a chance to actually read it properly.

 

Before I begin, I must clarify that I measure efficiency by the exp net exp gained by a team. In this case, speed =/= efficiency.

 

My original proposition, made after a runebound fought by two people out of the three that weren't DCed resulted in -81% exp for everyone, was that the keyer should join in on the boss, given these conditions...

 

1. There will be deaths during the boss that equate to a net exp reduction that can be termed as inefficient (each death does not save time worth its respective % of -exp in floor time).

2. The keyer will likely make a difference in combat, preventing enough deaths to make the lost time worth the prevented deaths.

 

It's a pretty damned simple conclusion that requires only logical deduction to arrive at. It also doesn't say much because of that but is correct, regardless. Assuming that every single argument made by a bad DGer is incorrect because they are a bad DGer is not good practice.

 

EDIT: I've posted this instead of taking it to PM because there was a large number of people involved in the discussion that would have walked away thinking that I'm a complete imbecile because of reputable people misconstruing what I said. I may be a complete imbecile for other reasons but this is not one of them.

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This is an extension to my discussion with (mainly) Nint about the value of a keyer doing a boss with the team as opposed to running doors while the rest of the team takes down the boss. While the discussion was going on in the CC, the flood of knee-jerk reactions stemming from misunderstanding my point moved the chat so quickly that nobody got a chance to actually read it properly.

 

Before I begin, I must clarify that I measure efficiency by the exp net exp gained by a team. In this case, speed =/= efficiency.

 

My original proposition, made after a runebound fought by two people out of the three that weren't DCed resulted in -81% exp for everyone, was that the keyer should join in on the boss, given these conditions...

 

1. There will be deaths during the boss that equate to a net exp reduction that can be termed as inefficient (each death does not save time worth its respective % of -exp in floor time).

2. The keyer will likely make a difference in combat, preventing enough deaths to make the lost time worth the prevented deaths.

 

It's a pretty damned simple conclusion that requires only logical deduction to arrive at. It also doesn't say much because of that but is correct, regardless. Assuming that every single argument made by a bad DGer is incorrect because they are a bad DGer is not good practice.

 

EDIT: I've posted this instead of taking it to PM because there was a large number of people involved in the discussion that would have walked away thinking that I'm a complete imbecile because of reputable people misconstruing what I said. I may be a complete imbecile for other reasons but this is not one of them.

No, you are wrong. You likely do not understand combat tactics such as ss flashing and hiding behind the crystals while melee pray is activated. You also probably did not pick up enough food during gds or featherfoils/buckthorns or use an altar.

It is always worth it to start on the boss asap, except for thunderous.


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You're trying to sound smart, and not doing a very good job.

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Runebound is easy when done correctly, like Tui said. You don't need the whole team for it.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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This is an extension to my discussion with (mainly) Nint about the value of a keyer doing a boss with the team as opposed to running doors while the rest of the team takes down the boss. While the discussion was going on in the CC, the flood of knee-jerk reactions stemming from misunderstanding my point moved the chat so quickly that nobody got a chance to actually read it properly.

 

Before I begin, I must clarify that I measure efficiency by the exp net exp gained by a team. In this case, speed =/= efficiency.

 

My original proposition, made after a runebound fought by two people out of the three that weren't DCed resulted in -81% exp for everyone, was that the keyer should join in on the boss, given these conditions...

 

1. There will be deaths during the boss that equate to a net exp reduction that can be termed as inefficient (each death does not save time worth its respective % of -exp in floor time).

2. The keyer will likely make a difference in combat, preventing enough deaths to make the lost time worth the prevented deaths.

 

It's a pretty damned simple conclusion that requires only logical deduction to arrive at. It also doesn't say much because of that but is correct, regardless. Assuming that every single argument made by a bad DGer is incorrect because they are a bad DGer is not good practice.

 

EDIT: I've posted this instead of taking it to PM because there was a large number of people involved in the discussion that would have walked away thinking that I'm a complete imbecile because of reputable people misconstruing what I said. I may be a complete imbecile for other reasons but this is not one of them.

 

No team should suck so hard that they die that many times throughout the floor, even less so achieving those deaths on a boss. The only reasons why this would happen is 1) the teammates don't know proper combat mechanics, 2) they don't know how to fight bosses in an effective and efficient way, or 3) they aren't paying attention or there is humongous lag due to internet speeds. There may be other factors I haven't looked into, but those are the most common.

 

I think the only person who would ever have such a reason for lag is someone with 600-1000 ping (you know who you are lol), and even then, Runebound shouldn't be so bad with door lag that he kills everyone down to -81%. If you actually know how to fight Runebound, it is actually a very easy fight, even if you only have melee'ers.

 

It's also supremely ILLOGICAL to proclaim that ONE PERSON opening the last few remaining doors makes such an impact in how fast a boss dies, even less to assume that it's more EFFICIENT to AFK in HT while the keyer runs around opening doors (I know you didn't explicitly state this, but it's implied, is it not?). If one person does make a huge impact whether you get 0 deaths or a -81% experience mod, it's LOGICAL to assume that it's the fault of that teammate (or teammates), NOT the keyer or whoever is opening doors.

 

One bad experience in a floor =/= supreme logical visionary breakthrough. You need a lot more experience before you can make any such claims.

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I’m glad you posted this here because having this conversation in the CC is very hard. You need to understand two points about why bossing with only part of the team is better when there are paths to be run.

 

First, having one less person at the boss lowers your death likelihood only slightly. A vast majority of the times you die with 4 people in the boss you would have died with 5 people as well. Doorlag matters for only a few bosses, namely Gulega and Thunderous. As you level up, you’ll be more familiar with boss mechanics so that a slight period of lag won’t cost you extra food. Basically, your point #2 is never true.

 

Second, running keys and skill doors after the boss is dead is a huge time killer. It takes on the order of 10 seconds to run through a room and open keys/skills. If one person (the keyer) does this, it “costs” only 10 second of potential boss killing. If, however, the keyer does this after the boss is dead, it costs 50 seconds of team time because the other 4 players are idle. If you get a puzzle like barrels or flowers after the boss dies that could have been done during the boss, you just lost as many as 5-10 minutes of team time and might have to skip the path entirely. The same logic applies to multiple people running paths, making pots, etc while the others boss. Often, if someone is soloing a puzzle and the only other doors on the map are dead end key doors, you’ll want to start boss and have people run their keys as they come in.

 

GDs are a bit of a special case. If you can solo one without dying, you should, because moving the ggs wastes some “team time” with animation lag (and possibly delays in moving) both ways. If there is something that you don’t have the right binds for (lots of CSB or hex monsters), then you should move GGS to the gd and tell either the whole team or just one person with the right bind to teleport there. Large path GDs should be prioritized (there is nothing wrong with doing part of the boss, moving GGS away from boss, then moving it back to finish). You can tell how large a post-boss path is in 2 ways:

1. Map reading (space it can expand to and number of empty spaces on map already used)

2. Number of keys in your inventory

When you have a hexer on your team and find Necro or Flesh you can have them start soloing very early in the map.

 

You’ll find many other situations where you want to start the boss early while someone works on a different part of the map. Doing this saves a huge amount of time in dungeons and so learning how to boss with less than 5 players is critical.

 

Besides, if 2 people dc'ed and you are 3:5ing a large you should expect some crappy exp/times anyway.


2496 Completionist

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No, you are wrong. You likely do not understand combat tactics such as ss flashing and hiding behind the crystals while melee pray is activated. You also probably did not pick up enough food during gds or featherfoils/buckthorns or use an altar.

 

None of us had SS and, as I said, it was 2 vs the boss. I was personally full on food before going in but was still unable to deplete its HP fast enough. In hindsight, I should have told the other person about how to stand behind the magic crystal to lure an AOE attack before gting to the melee crystal, luring it over and activating it.

 

Regardless, this is beside the point. I'll explain why in a second.

 

It's also supremely ILLOGICAL to proclaim that ONE PERSON opening the last few remaining doors makes such an impact in how fast a boss dies, even less to assume that it's more EFFICIENT to AFK in HT while the keyer runs around opening doors (I know you didn't explicitly state this, but it's implied, is it not?). If one person does make a huge impact whether you get 0 deaths or a -81% experience mod, it's LOGICAL to assume that it's the fault of that teammate (or teammates), NOT the keyer or whoever is opening doors.

 

I can only respond with this...

 

2. The keyer will likely make a difference in combat, preventing enough deaths to make the lost time worth the prevented deaths.

 

 

You're still misunderstanding me. You seem to think that I'm saying "you should do bosses like this" when I'm saying that "you should do bosses like this if *condition*, *condition* and *condition*"

 

I've already explained that what I said doesn't even mean much because it's a simple logical deduction but you're ignoring that and assuming that I'm proposing that was I said is appropriate to the majority of floors. I never stated that and simply considering the conditions that I specified should have made that obvious.

 

Once again, I urge you to read the conditions I set out in my post and reconsider what it actually means. You've blown this completely out of proportion.

 

EDIT: Posted this before I was able to read Jett's post. Reading it now.

 

EDIT: Same thing. You're treating it as if I'm claiming that condition 2 is common while I'm only laying out what to do when both conditions are in place, however unlikely that would be.

 

To reiterate, I stated a logical deduction with very little meaning to those able to deduce it for themselves, it was misconstrued (and is still being misconstrued despite it being laid out plainly) and completely blown out of the water.

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You're still misunderstanding me. You seem to think that I'm saying "you should do bosses like this" when I'm saying that "you should do bosses like this if *condition*, *condition* and *condition*"

 

I've already explained that what I said doesn't even mean much because it's a simple logical deduction but you're ignoring that and assuming that I'm proposing that was I said is appropriate to the majority of floors. I never stated that and simply considering the conditions that I specified should have made that obvious.

 

Once again, I urge you to read the conditions I set out in my post and reconsider what it actually means. You've blown this completely out of proportion.

 

 

Here are your two conditions:

 

1. There will be deaths during the boss that equate to a net exp reduction that can be termed as inefficient (each death does not save time worth its respective % of -exp in floor time).

2. The keyer will likely make a difference in combat, preventing enough deaths to make the lost time worth the prevented deaths.

 

1) There should be little to no deaths on bosses, especially on ones as easy as Runebound. There is also NO way to know how many times someone will die. I DG with people assuming they know how to do boss, or are intelligent enough to quickly pick up on how to fight them, and thus, deaths will remain at a minimum. There are a few bosses which attack erratically and hard enough that can make people die multiple times, even with prayer/food, like Trio/Gulega/Blink/Forger.

 

 

Like I stated before, the only exceptions to a keyer running around opening doors rather than doing boss, is when you have Thunderous or Gulega as the boss, but Thunderous can be done if the keyer asks when it's OK to door-lag.

 

2) I cannot fathom a situation when the keyer plays such an important part in fighting the boss (or actually, maybe if the keyer is the only hexer in a Necro floor). If the keyer plays such a big part that it causes everyone to live enough for it to matter, there is something wrong with the team, and I've never been in a team that was like that (even when I had 4 new DGS mates in my floor).

 

I am not misunderstanding you. You give out advice based on the little experience you have, which can be a detriment to many, and the experiences you have are very niche; it's unlikely anyone experiences this commonly. Yes, a floor can be bad enough that everyone dies multiple times, but bad enough where the absence of a keyer determines whether you die or not? Give me a break.

 

Please, please, please, please, please, PLEASE, Dungeoneer more, and gain a lot more experience than you have now. You aren't helping yourself by making claims about things that you are ill-prepared and experienced in to comment about, and you may be misleading many people by your proposals. I only say this because this isn't the first time this has happened.

 

Now that I read your revision, I'll give you "real" logic.

 

You are giving an "if->then" statement. If the "if" statement is achieved, then the "then" statement will be the consequence. You have an "and" statement in your "if" statement. So I will rephrase it like this:

 

If A and B, then C,

 

where A = (1), B = (2), and C = the keyer should partake in the boss.

 

In order for the "if...then" statement to be true, the "if" must be true. The "if" statement in this case contains an "and" statement, therefore, in order for this "if" statement to be true, the "and" statement must first be true.

 

In an "and" statement, both conditions must be true. If one or the other is false, the WHOLE condition is false. Therefore, if A OR B is false, then the whole statement is false, even if one is true.

 

For A (about the # of deaths on a boss) is ALWAYS FALSE. There is never a situation where people die this many times ON THE BOSS. If the deaths were also tallied up throughout the floor, it's not the keyer's absence in a boss that accounts for it, it's the individuals. So claim A is false.

 

For B (about the keyer being an integral part of the boss), I outlined one situation where it could be true, and that's when the keyer is also the only hexer in a Necro floor, but even then, you would use magic during the boss, and just teleport out when the skeletons come back in. Heck, even during the downtime after teleporting out, you can fish/cook food, and have no excuse to die whatsoever. So your claim for B is completely FALSE.

 

So in your statement, you are ALWAYS FALSE, no matter the situation. Both statements can never be true. Thus, there is no reason to ever try to justify your claim in any situation.

 

That is "real" logic.

Edited by nintendomaster2024

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noone thinks your an imbecile, and its just nature that people with very much higher dg then you will think theyre automatically right in any argument with you lol.

 

But yeah it really depends on the boss/the floor/the dgers etc etc as to whether the keyer shuld run keys after.. if the keyer is an elite dger you can even send someone else to run the keys ;P

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EDIT: Same thing. You're treating it as if I'm claiming that condition 2 is common while I'm only laying out what to do when both conditions are in place, however unlikely that would be.

 

You're right in saying that condition 2 shouldn't be met if a team is competent but the fact of the matter is that not everyone is. Not accounting for sub-optimal circumstances and continuing to operate as normal is the same as ragequitting because of a bad first half. Being able to make the most of a bad situation is important.

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One question: What is DGS' opinion on spears?


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Click the "Signed in as..." go to Manage ignored users, copy paste Toki_Hakurei.

I'm pretty sure having boobs is the most broken super power anyone can ever have. 0_0

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If you get one as a drop from a hobogoblin, consider using it on dragons!

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