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Um - is RWT not reportable any more?


Blyaunte

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I'd rather play a game with a self-righteous (and in RuneScape's case, younger) player base that goes around reporting other players for every small thing that just so happens to break 'the rules,' than a game where people openly bot and cheat. Having to watch what you say out of fear of being reported is the best way to force people to be mature and not act like kids that think swearing is fun and a right. But that is just my opinion though I'd hope especially a lot of the older players (older as in 30+) would agree with me. Since if you do nothing against the rules then you have nothing to fear from being reported hence why I've never gotten a blackmark in 7 years of playing. :shades:

 

I feel quite the same. I rather play a game with mature, aware and respectable people than immature, unaware and people who show no respect for others. I like the situation we have -- for the most part. People are required to be careful of what they say and abide by the rules. I don't want to imagine RuneScape without a 'report abuse' feature. People reporting others are being protective, granted many may be doing it for the wrong reasons - but then again you shouldn't be saying things/doing things that could get you in trouble. RuneScape without P-Mods or people who have respect for themselves and others who choose to avail of the Report Abuse feature and protect some potential victim would be quite a mess... I think it may still be fresh in peoples minds as to what happened earlier this year, with a young girl and a predator? Granted, these things can -- and quite obviously do still happen, but on a scale that's barely even viewable in reality...Can you guess how common things like this would become without people reporting others?

 

 

Breaking Real World Laws, on the third column, second rule.

So trading in real life is illegal? Good to know, i'll remember that next time i go to a supermarket.

 

 

Yes, it would be wise to remember that. Especially if you were aware the supermarket you had planned on purchasing those goods had stolen them from another retailer and were selling them as their own. As that is essenially what's going on with RuneScape, no? You don't own the product, therefore have absolutely no right to sell it.

RIP Michaelangelopolous

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correct - however, it would seem as though you are suggesting that it would be better to catch 9 innocents in addition to 1 guilty than to let the guilty go free

 

[...]

 

admitting to rwting is not equivalent to rwting

 

Presumption of innocence is one thing, and something that I definitely support. I often see people reporting others for "botting" if they don't answer in chat, and I tell those people that failing to chat is no proof of botting.

 

It's something else entirely to twist presumption of innocence into a presumption that all confessions of wrongdoing are lies, and that any time sometime admits to doing something wrong we should ignore them.

i give people the benefit of the doubt that they are being sarcastic, joking, or trolling. don't see how that's a problem.

 

please address my other points.

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Going over a number of posts, I'm going to generalize the opinions of those opposed to the OP's actions.

 

1) RWTing is bad. Or at least I haven't seen anyone state outright that they support RWT.

2) Okay, the person discussed probably did RWT. This was admitted very reluctantly. (?)

3) But, reporting is worse!

 

So far as I can tell, and as I originally expected, this seems to be motivated by some sort of juvenile "rebellion" thought process. Jagex is an authority figure, therefore going against them is cool because it's going against "the man". Support cheaters because they're cool for defying authority, and anyone who plays by the rules is lame and a suck up, since anarchy is obviously better. If Jagex can catch someone, then oh well, it happens, but don't tattle snitch report because we need to stick together against the nasty teachers po-po Jagex, who just want to spoil everyone's fun.

 

I'm fairly disgusted.

 

If you believe that the existing rules are there for good reason and agree with them, you should be prepared to report rule-breakers. If you believe an existing rule is wrong, say so and defend your position.

 

But if you really believe that the rules are good, yet rule-breakers should not be reported, then you'll need to do a lot better than ad hominem attacks calling people "wanna be mods".

 

It's obvious to everyone that Jagex can't catch all rule violations through automated systems. I don't think the person the OP encountered should be banned, but that isn't what we're talking about. Reporting just lets Jagex apply the same rules, fairly, to everyone. Thinking that the reporter is to blame for the rule-breaker's punishment is like saying that it's a witness' fault for a murderer going to jail - no, actually, it's the fault of the murderer.

 

If the rules are good ones, why shouldn't we do what we can to reduce botting/RWTing/etc?

 

1) Obviously RWT is bad but the consumer isn't the evil one i dont think. if RWT didnt create bots then id literally have no problem with it, i mean who cares? if bots didnt exist RWT would be absolutely fine. i mean we know it does create bots but this player was obviously very young. as are most of the players who play runescape, come on guys its a kids game. all games are kids games. adults are not meant to have the time for extreme gaming like kids do, almost every game is marketed at kids (11-19ish). please dont expect people in runescape to act like 30 year olds, that would be too weerd if everyone playing runescape was 30. hell i personally have a problem with parents playing runescape. anyway point being, she was obviously young and doesnt know about the rule, i mean its not excactly obvious unless you play a lot and come on forums like this. its easy for us forum users to forget that some of the stuff we all think is obvious, in actual fact, is not. so she was young, i have to assume didnt know it was against the rules as she was talking openly and unprovoked, she got scammed for real money which might well have been her pocket money.. and THEN some jumped up wanna be mod over zealous character reports her.. hmm.. what a great day for her.

 

2) i think it was unprovoked.

 

3) yeah in a case like this, in face i thinkn in most cases. 'rules are made to be broken'. IRL i break laws everyday, constantly lol. i want to be able to talk about breaking laws without fear of someone telling on me. thats like living in nazi germany, with the kids telling on their own parents! (lol well not quite but you know..)

 

i really don't like how you conclude that this is a juvenile rebellion thought process.. i dont know if i can say this, if i cant please delete. but many of my old accounts i shared with my brother, i saw, still very much see, nothing wrong with it. it wasnt trying to be cool or rebel it was just a nice bonding experience, half the grinding for the same levels. the one thing was having friends i thought might report me. that was alright, i just only had 2 friends i trusted. i also bought some gold from a player who hadnt farmed it (how do i know? he was a famous pker) at the time i wasnt aware it was against the rules, i saw on a forum that actually let u discuss these kinds of things (mayhem makers) he was selling, id always found it hard to make cash so i bought some. i dont see that as that bad. that account got banned for autotyping in w2 (come on i dont want arthritis). i see no problem with any of these things and id like to think i could talk to people on rs about them.

 

if thats not allowed can you just delete that paragraph?

 

anyway end of the day, reporting one unlucky girl solves absolutely nothing. if she gets banned it does nothing, all it does is ruin the time someone put into the account. i see at as a malicious thing to do. especially if she was young n the OP is like 30 something..

 

already said it but..

 

i would rather an unstable economy than to not say what i want, this isn't just about this one rule, offensive language is another good example. wanna be mods look for trouble, ruin the atmosphere, cause people to not be able to say wat they want in public places for fear of being reported and just generally [cabbage] on everything. i would rather everyone was a bot than to have wanna be mods all over the place.

 

another post is someone being muted for saying, give me your password ill scam you. its the same kind of argument i think.

 

anyway i hate you wanna be mods.

 

I feel quite the same. I rather play a game with mature, aware and respectable people than immature, unaware and people who show no respect for others. I like the situation we have -- for the most part. People are required to be careful of what they say and abide by the rules. I don't want to imagine RuneScape without a 'report abuse' feature. People reporting others are being protective, granted many may be doing it for the wrong reasons - but then again you shouldn't be saying things/doing things that could get you in trouble. RuneScape without P-Mods or people who have respect for themselves and others who choose to avail of the Report Abuse feature and protect some potential victim would be quite a mess... I think it may still be fresh in peoples minds as to what happened earlier this year, with a young girl and a predator? Granted, these things can -- and quite obviously do still happen, but on a scale that's barely even viewable in reality...Can you guess how common things like this would become without people reporting others?

 

no report abuse button would be ridiculous, but save it for the gold farmers, bots and hackers. personally i dont think scamming is bad.

 

eermm i think reporting people all the time is showing no respect for others. i see no reason why saying u rwt is not showing respect for others. quite the opposite it shows u wanna talk and communicate. runescape without player mods was fine. ive never seen anyone get told off by a player mod, personally, and ive played 100 days on my account. it also cant be that protective because u report someone for somethign that has already occurred. it may hinder them. but i doubt this girl considered buying gold again.

 

also i disagree on p mods having respect for others. i was friends with 3 orginal p mods, they were arogant as! in fact i personally know one of them botted high level fishing. i think make mods for banning bots. you ban the bots, you stop the gold farming, you stop the problem cause by rwt and it doesnt matter if it happens.

 

also come oonn dude, talking about peedos now eh? thats just unbeleivably stupid. if u think a player reporting someone would stop the possibility of a peedo. its such a small minority but put urself in the mindset, they groom people by getting to know. in runescapes case beiung friends witht them. it is downright stupid to think no report button would create more incidents like this(to which i was unaware). GOD i hate peedos! but yeah, facebook, msn etc are much better ways for peedos - once again solve the problem, round them up :) (id like to see life prison for all pedophiles)

 

 

point is you rip the head of a flower it survives, u kill the root the flower never grows. in this case the OP is trying to kill a flower for no reason, it will not do anything, only add insult to injury. i wouldve thought you 'mature' players would see that.

 

(oh except your not mature because you spend hours on a kids game)

 

<3:

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correct - however, it would seem as though you are suggesting that it would be better to catch 9 innocents in addition to 1 guilty than to let the guilty go free

 

[...]

 

admitting to rwting is not equivalent to rwting

 

Presumption of innocence is one thing, and something that I definitely support. I often see people reporting others for "botting" if they don't answer in chat, and I tell those people that failing to chat is no proof of botting.

 

It's something else entirely to twist presumption of innocence into a presumption that all confessions of wrongdoing are lies, and that any time sometime admits to doing something wrong we should ignore them.

[/hide]

i give people the benefit of the doubt that they are being sarcastic, joking, or trolling. don't see how that's a problem.

 

please address my other points.

 

Honestly it appeared to me that your only point was that we should ignore confessions of wrongdoing under the assumption that people are lying/joking. I don't think that's a sensible policy if the context indicates it isn't a joke. If you had other points that I missed, I apologize, please point them out to me and I will do my best to reply.

 

 

[hide]

Going over a number of posts, I'm going to generalize the opinions of those opposed to the OP's actions.

 

1) RWTing is bad. Or at least I haven't seen anyone state outright that they support RWT.

2) Okay, the person discussed probably did RWT. This was admitted very reluctantly. (?)

3) But, reporting is worse!

 

So far as I can tell, and as I originally expected, this seems to be motivated by some sort of juvenile "rebellion" thought process. Jagex is an authority figure, therefore going against them is cool because it's going against "the man". Support cheaters because they're cool for defying authority, and anyone who plays by the rules is lame and a suck up, since anarchy is obviously better. If Jagex can catch someone, then oh well, it happens, but don't tattle snitch report because we need to stick together against the nasty teachers po-po Jagex, who just want to spoil everyone's fun.

 

I'm fairly disgusted.

 

If you believe that the existing rules are there for good reason and agree with them, you should be prepared to report rule-breakers. If you believe an existing rule is wrong, say so and defend your position.

 

But if you really believe that the rules are good, yet rule-breakers should not be reported, then you'll need to do a lot better than ad hominem attacks calling people "wanna be mods".

 

It's obvious to everyone that Jagex can't catch all rule violations through automated systems. I don't think the person the OP encountered should be banned, but that isn't what we're talking about. Reporting just lets Jagex apply the same rules, fairly, to everyone. Thinking that the reporter is to blame for the rule-breaker's punishment is like saying that it's a witness' fault for a murderer going to jail - no, actually, it's the fault of the murderer.

 

If the rules are good ones, why shouldn't we do what we can to reduce botting/RWTing/etc?

 

1) Obviously RWT is bad but the consumer isn't the evil one i dont think. if RWT didnt create bots then id literally have no problem with it, i mean who cares? if bots didnt exist RWT would be absolutely fine. i mean we know it does create bots but this player was obviously very young. as are most of the players who play runescape, come on guys its a kids game. all games are kids games. adults are not meant to have the time for extreme gaming like kids do, almost every game is marketed at kids (11-19ish). please dont expect people in runescape to act like 30 year olds, that would be too weerd if everyone playing runescape was 30. hell i personally have a problem with parents playing runescape. anyway point being, she was obviously young and doesnt know about the rule, i mean its not excactly obvious unless you play a lot and come on forums like this. its easy for us forum users to forget that some of the stuff we all think is obvious, in actual fact, is not. so she was young, i have to assume didnt know it was against the rules as she was talking openly and unprovoked, she got scammed for real money which might well have been her pocket money.. and THEN some jumped up wanna be mod over zealous character reports her.. hmm.. what a great day for her.

 

2) i think it was unprovoked.

 

3) yeah in a case like this, in face i thinkn in most cases. 'rules are made to be broken'. IRL i break laws everyday, constantly lol. i want to be able to talk about breaking laws without fear of someone telling on me. thats like living in nazi germany, with the kids telling on their own parents! (lol well not quite but you know..)

 

i really don't like how you conclude that this is a juvenile rebellion thought process.. i dont know if i can say this, if i cant please delete. but many of my old accounts i shared with my brother, i saw, still very muich see, nothing wrong with it. it wasnt trying to be cool or rebel it was just a nice bonding experience, half the grinding for the same levels. the one thing was having friends i thought might report me. that was alright, i just only haad 2 friends i trusted. i also bought some gold from a player who hadnt farmed it (how do i know? he was a famous pker) at the time i wasnt aware it was against the rules, i saw on a forum that actually let u discuss these kinds of things (mayhem makers) he was selling, id always find it hard so i bought some. i dont see that as that bad. tbf that account got banned for autotyping in w2. i see no problem with any of these things and id like to think i could talk to people on rs about them.

 

if thats not allowed can you just delete that paragraph?

 

anyway end of the day, reporting one unluckly girl solves absolutely nothing. if she gets banned it does nothing, all it does is ruin the time someone put into the account. i see at as a malicious thing to do. especially if she was young n the OP is like 30 something..

 

already said it but..

 

i would rather an unstable economy than to not say what i want, this isn't just about this one rule, offensive language is another good example. wanna be mods look for trouble, ruin the atmosphere, cause people to not be able to say wat they want in public places for fear of being reported and just generally [cabbage] on everything. i would rather everyone was a bot than to have wanna be mods all over the place.

 

another post is someone being muted for saying, give me your password ill scam you. its the same kind of argument i think.

 

anyway i hate you wanna be mods.

 

I feel quite the same. I rather play a game with mature, aware and respectable people than immature, unaware and people who show no respect for others. I like the situation we have -- for the most part. People are required to be careful of what they say and abide by the rules. I don't want to imagine RuneScape without a 'report abuse' feature. People reporting others are being protective, granted many may be doing it for the wrong reasons - but then again you shouldn't be saying things/doing things that could get you in trouble. RuneScape without P-Mods or people who have respect for themselves and others who choose to avail of the Report Abuse feature and protect some potential victim would be quite a mess... I think it may still be fresh in peoples minds as to what happened earlier this year, with a young girl and a predator? Granted, these things can -- and quite obviously do still happen, but on a scale that's barely even viewable in reality...Can you guess how common things like this would become without people reporting others?

 

no report abuse button would be ridiculous, but save it for the gold farmers, bots and hackers. personally i dont think scamming is bad.

 

eermm i think reporting people all the time is showing no respect for others. i see no reason why saying u rwt is not showing respect for others. quite the opposite it shows u wanna talk and communicate. runescape without player mods was fine. ive never seen anyone get told off by a player mod, personally, and ive played 100 days on my account. it also cant be that protective because u report someone for somethign that has already occurred. it may hinder them. but i doubt this girl considered buying gold again.

 

also i disagree on p mods having respect for others. i was friends with 3 orginal p mods, they were arogant as! in fact i personally know one of them botted high level fishing. i think make mods for banning bots. you ban the bots, you stop the gold farming, you stop the problem cause by rwt and it doesnt matter if it happens.

 

also come oonn dude, talking about peedos now eh? thats just unbeleivably stupid. if u think a player reporting someone would stop the possibility of a peedo. its such a small minority but put urself in the mindset, they groom people by getting to know. in runescapes case beiung friends witht them. it is downright stupid to think no report button would create more incidents like this(to which i was unaware). GOD i hate peedos! but yeah, facebook, msn etc are much better ways for peedos. i guess this guy just like to gain levels while he groomed.. (lol? no? .. )

 

 

point is you ripm the head of a flower it survives, u kill the root the flower never grows. in this case the OP is trying to kill a flower for no reason, it will nto do anything, only add insult to injury. i wouldve thought you 'mature' players would see that.

 

(oh except your not mature because you spend hours on a kids game)

 

<3:

[/hide]

 

You fall outside the grouping I made; you do seem to believe that RWT should be allowed. I disagree with you of course, but that's an entirely different conversation. Since you've implied that you're uncomfortable with adults, I won't push you to discuss it further.

Alphanos

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Yes, it would be wise to remember that. Especially if you were aware the supermarket you had planned on purchasing those goods had stolen them from another retailer and were selling them as their own. As that is essenially what's going on with RuneScape, no? You don't own the product, therefore have absolutely no right to sell it.

The question is, is it illegal, can you get be dealt for this. And the answer is, NO. Selling runescape 'possessions' is in no way controlled by any governments and isn't thus considered illegal. You aren't selling stolen property, there is no definition for who owns it and can sell it. If there is no law, it's not illegal(and yes, i'm 100% sure it's not illegal in Estonia, atleast, and i haven't heard of anyone ever being dealt with for breaking the law in this manner).

 

And yeah, if noone still got it, saying something and actually doing it are very must DIFFERENT entities. DO NOT confuse them(unless it's done under oath, in which case you'd still have to be proven lying).

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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[hide]

[hide]

correct - however, it would seem as though you are suggesting that it would be better to catch 9 innocents in addition to 1 guilty than to let the guilty go free

 

[...]

 

admitting to rwting is not equivalent to rwting

 

Presumption of innocence is one thing, and something that I definitely support. I often see people reporting others for "botting" if they don't answer in chat, and I tell those people that failing to chat is no proof of botting.

 

It's something else entirely to twist presumption of innocence into a presumption that all confessions of wrongdoing are lies, and that any time sometime admits to doing something wrong we should ignore them.

[/hide]

i give people the benefit of the doubt that they are being sarcastic, joking, or trolling. don't see how that's a problem.

 

please address my other points.

 

Honestly it appeared to me that your only point was that we should ignore confessions of wrongdoing under the assumption that people are lying/joking. I don't think that's a sensible policy if the context indicates it isn't a joke. If you had other points that I missed, I apologize, please point them out to me and I will do my best to reply.

 

 

[hide]

Going over a number of posts, I'm going to generalize the opinions of those opposed to the OP's actions.

 

1) RWTing is bad. Or at least I haven't seen anyone state outright that they support RWT.

2) Okay, the person discussed probably did RWT. This was admitted very reluctantly. (?)

3) But, reporting is worse!

 

So far as I can tell, and as I originally expected, this seems to be motivated by some sort of juvenile "rebellion" thought process. Jagex is an authority figure, therefore going against them is cool because it's going against "the man". Support cheaters because they're cool for defying authority, and anyone who plays by the rules is lame and a suck up, since anarchy is obviously better. If Jagex can catch someone, then oh well, it happens, but don't tattle snitch report because we need to stick together against the nasty teachers po-po Jagex, who just want to spoil everyone's fun.

 

I'm fairly disgusted.

 

If you believe that the existing rules are there for good reason and agree with them, you should be prepared to report rule-breakers. If you believe an existing rule is wrong, say so and defend your position.

 

But if you really believe that the rules are good, yet rule-breakers should not be reported, then you'll need to do a lot better than ad hominem attacks calling people "wanna be mods".

 

It's obvious to everyone that Jagex can't catch all rule violations through automated systems. I don't think the person the OP encountered should be banned, but that isn't what we're talking about. Reporting just lets Jagex apply the same rules, fairly, to everyone. Thinking that the reporter is to blame for the rule-breaker's punishment is like saying that it's a witness' fault for a murderer going to jail - no, actually, it's the fault of the murderer.

 

If the rules are good ones, why shouldn't we do what we can to reduce botting/RWTing/etc?

 

1) Obviously RWT is bad but the consumer isn't the evil one i dont think. if RWT didnt create bots then id literally have no problem with it, i mean who cares? if bots didnt exist RWT would be absolutely fine. i mean we know it does create bots but this player was obviously very young. as are most of the players who play runescape, come on guys its a kids game. all games are kids games. adults are not meant to have the time for extreme gaming like kids do, almost every game is marketed at kids (11-19ish). please dont expect people in runescape to act like 30 year olds, that would be too weerd if everyone playing runescape was 30. hell i personally have a problem with parents playing runescape. anyway point being, she was obviously young and doesnt know about the rule, i mean its not excactly obvious unless you play a lot and come on forums like this. its easy for us forum users to forget that some of the stuff we all think is obvious, in actual fact, is not. so she was young, i have to assume didnt know it was against the rules as she was talking openly and unprovoked, she got scammed for real money which might well have been her pocket money.. and THEN some jumped up wanna be mod over zealous character reports her.. hmm.. what a great day for her.

 

2) i think it was unprovoked.

 

3) yeah in a case like this, in face i thinkn in most cases. 'rules are made to be broken'. IRL i break laws everyday, constantly lol. i want to be able to talk about breaking laws without fear of someone telling on me. thats like living in nazi germany, with the kids telling on their own parents! (lol well not quite but you know..)

 

i really don't like how you conclude that this is a juvenile rebellion thought process.. i dont know if i can say this, if i cant please delete. but many of my old accounts i shared with my brother, i saw, still very muich see, nothing wrong with it. it wasnt trying to be cool or rebel it was just a nice bonding experience, half the grinding for the same levels. the one thing was having friends i thought might report me. that was alright, i just only haad 2 friends i trusted. i also bought some gold from a player who hadnt farmed it (how do i know? he was a famous pker) at the time i wasnt aware it was against the rules, i saw on a forum that actually let u discuss these kinds of things (mayhem makers) he was selling, id always find it hard so i bought some. i dont see that as that bad. tbf that account got banned for autotyping in w2. i see no problem with any of these things and id like to think i could talk to people on rs about them.

 

if thats not allowed can you just delete that paragraph?

 

anyway end of the day, reporting one unluckly girl solves absolutely nothing. if she gets banned it does nothing, all it does is ruin the time someone put into the account. i see at as a malicious thing to do. especially if she was young n the OP is like 30 something..

 

already said it but..

 

i would rather an unstable economy than to not say what i want, this isn't just about this one rule, offensive language is another good example. wanna be mods look for trouble, ruin the atmosphere, cause people to not be able to say wat they want in public places for fear of being reported and just generally [cabbage] on everything. i would rather everyone was a bot than to have wanna be mods all over the place.

 

another post is someone being muted for saying, give me your password ill scam you. its the same kind of argument i think.

 

anyway i hate you wanna be mods.

 

I feel quite the same. I rather play a game with mature, aware and respectable people than immature, unaware and people who show no respect for others. I like the situation we have -- for the most part. People are required to be careful of what they say and abide by the rules. I don't want to imagine RuneScape without a 'report abuse' feature. People reporting others are being protective, granted many may be doing it for the wrong reasons - but then again you shouldn't be saying things/doing things that could get you in trouble. RuneScape without P-Mods or people who have respect for themselves and others who choose to avail of the Report Abuse feature and protect some potential victim would be quite a mess... I think it may still be fresh in peoples minds as to what happened earlier this year, with a young girl and a predator? Granted, these things can -- and quite obviously do still happen, but on a scale that's barely even viewable in reality...Can you guess how common things like this would become without people reporting others?

 

no report abuse button would be ridiculous, but save it for the gold farmers, bots and hackers. personally i dont think scamming is bad.

 

eermm i think reporting people all the time is showing no respect for others. i see no reason why saying u rwt is not showing respect for others. quite the opposite it shows u wanna talk and communicate. runescape without player mods was fine. ive never seen anyone get told off by a player mod, personally, and ive played 100 days on my account. it also cant be that protective because u report someone for somethign that has already occurred. it may hinder them. but i doubt this girl considered buying gold again.

 

also i disagree on p mods having respect for others. i was friends with 3 orginal p mods, they were arogant as! in fact i personally know one of them botted high level fishing. i think make mods for banning bots. you ban the bots, you stop the gold farming, you stop the problem cause by rwt and it doesnt matter if it happens.

 

also come oonn dude, talking about peedos now eh? thats just unbeleivably stupid. if u think a player reporting someone would stop the possibility of a peedo. its such a small minority but put urself in the mindset, they groom people by getting to know. in runescapes case beiung friends witht them. it is downright stupid to think no report button would create more incidents like this(to which i was unaware). GOD i hate peedos! but yeah, facebook, msn etc are much better ways for peedos. i guess this guy just like to gain levels while he groomed.. (lol? no? .. )

 

 

point is you ripm the head of a flower it survives, u kill the root the flower never grows. in this case the OP is trying to kill a flower for no reason, it will nto do anything, only add insult to injury. i wouldve thought you 'mature' players would see that.

 

(oh except your not mature because you spend hours on a kids game)

 

<3:

[/hide]

 

You fall outside the grouping I made; you do seem to believe that RWT should be allowed. I disagree with you of course, but that's an entirely different conversation. Since you've implied that you're uncomfortable with adults, I won't push you to discuss it further.

[/hide]

 

lol im not unconfortable with adults, i dont agreee with adults playing runescape thats true. i also dont think RWT should occur but only because of the bots it creates. other than that i see no problem? one possible problem would be people amassing loads of gold but the mjority of players probably wouldnt want to sell. in fact it would probably pass them by.

 

do u not agree that by reporting a hapless player, probably young, you solve nothing? you just make her day even worse. if she knew it was against the rules i doubt she would have started talking about it for no reason. i also think that that attitude is a million times less mature than mine. reporting someone for that i mean. to me it just seems petty.

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lol im not unconfortable with adults, i dont agreee with adults playing runescape thats true.

gonna take this on a huge tangent, but in your opinion, at what age is it disagreeable to you that a person plays runescape? 30? 25? 19? 18?

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lol im not unconfortable with adults, i dont agreee with adults playing runescape thats true.

gonna take this on a huge tangent, but in your opinion, at what age is it disagreeable to you that a person plays runescape? 30? 25? 19? 18?

 

to be fair im pretty old, 19. i dont really care either because i mean its not my life. its PARENTS i have a huge problem with, thats harming someone elses life. every minute spent on runescape should be spent either with your klids, or doing something worthwhile and real. im living with a familly at the moment and the mum never seems to have the time of day and she only has 1 kid.

 

yeah actually scrap that its their own life, i dont care. just parents.

 

can someone read the epic post i just wrote, i reckon i made some valid points :thumbsup:

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I find it mildly funny how this thread derailed from being about RWT to being about WBMs then back to RWT.

 

And as a summary of my view:

Should she have reported the person?

Yes; someone blatantly talking about an infraction of the rules should be dealt with appropriately. And if that requires a report, so be it.

 

Is Jagex actually going to do anything about the report?

Most likely not, since their reporting system is so wonderfully flawed.

 

Are WBMs a problem?

Yes, they are a pain in the neck, and the system should be changed to get rid of them.

 

Was the OP being a WBM?

No, she simply stated it as sarcasm.

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Since you asked, I've gone ahead and replied to your posting :).

 

[hide]

Going over a number of posts, I'm going to generalize the opinions of those opposed to the OP's actions.

 

1) RWTing is bad. Or at least I haven't seen anyone state outright that they support RWT.

2) Okay, the person discussed probably did RWT. This was admitted very reluctantly. (?)

3) But, reporting is worse!

 

So far as I can tell, and as I originally expected, this seems to be motivated by some sort of juvenile "rebellion" thought process. Jagex is an authority figure, therefore going against them is cool because it's going against "the man". Support cheaters because they're cool for defying authority, and anyone who plays by the rules is lame and a suck up, since anarchy is obviously better. If Jagex can catch someone, then oh well, it happens, but don't tattle snitch report because we need to stick together against the nasty teachers po-po Jagex, who just want to spoil everyone's fun.

 

I'm fairly disgusted.

 

If you believe that the existing rules are there for good reason and agree with them, you should be prepared to report rule-breakers. If you believe an existing rule is wrong, say so and defend your position.

 

But if you really believe that the rules are good, yet rule-breakers should not be reported, then you'll need to do a lot better than ad hominem attacks calling people "wanna be mods".

 

It's obvious to everyone that Jagex can't catch all rule violations through automated systems. I don't think the person the OP encountered should be banned, but that isn't what we're talking about. Reporting just lets Jagex apply the same rules, fairly, to everyone. Thinking that the reporter is to blame for the rule-breaker's punishment is like saying that it's a witness' fault for a murderer going to jail - no, actually, it's the fault of the murderer.

 

If the rules are good ones, why shouldn't we do what we can to reduce botting/RWTing/etc?

[/hide]

 

1) Obviously RWT is bad but the consumer isn't the evil one i dont think. if RWT didnt create bots then id literally have no problem with it, i mean who cares? if bots didnt exist RWT would be absolutely fine. i mean we know it does create bots but this player was obviously very young. as are most of the players who play runescape, come on guys its a kids game. all games are kids games. adults are not meant to have the time for extreme gaming like kids do, almost every game is marketed at kids (11-19ish). please dont expect people in runescape to act like 30 year olds, that would be too weerd if everyone playing runescape was 30. hell i personally have a problem with parents playing runescape. anyway point being, she was obviously young and doesnt know about the rule, i mean its not excactly obvious unless you play a lot and come on forums like this. its easy for us forum users to forget that some of the stuff we all think is obvious, in actual fact, is not. so she was young, i have to assume didnt know it was against the rules as she was talking openly and unprovoked, she got scammed for real money which might well have been her pocket money.. and THEN some jumped up wanna be mod over zealous character reports her.. hmm.. what a great day for her.

 

2) i think it was unprovoked.

 

Since none of us were there with the OP, much of this is speculation without a chat log. However, I can agree that since this individual was openly talking about the matter, maybe they really didn't know it was against the rules. Depending on the scenario, maybe I would have discussed it that way with them. However I don't want to judge the OP without having been there - for all I know the person RWTing talked about it in those terms, signifying understanding, or talked about doing it multiple times.

 

Players do have to indicate that they've read and understand the rules before they can register an account. It's also possible (maybe more like probable) that lots of players, including that one, just click through without actually reading. There are consequences to agreeing to terms you don't understand, not just online but in real life.

 

From what I've heard so far, I don't think the player should be banned. But they do need to be made aware that RWTing can get them banned. Without having been in the situation, I'm not in a position to judge whether the player just needed a heads up, or whether they were unrepentant and needed to be reported. Also, it should be pointed out again that reported does not equal banned. Jagex has a complicated system of black marks, etc etc, which they've spent a fair bit of time developing. They have a vested interest themselves in keeping paying members online, while still upholding the rules. However, if everyone doesn't report for fear of getting someone banned, it just means that all rule-breaking will continue unhindered.

 

3) yeah in a case like this, in face i thinkn in most cases. 'rules are made to be broken'. IRL i break laws everyday, constantly lol. i want to be able to talk about breaking laws without fear of someone telling on me. thats like living in nazi germany, with the kids telling on their own parents! (lol well not quite but you know..)

 

i really don't like how you conclude that this is a juvenile rebellion thought process.. i dont know if i can say this, if i cant please delete. but many of my old accounts i shared with my brother, i saw, still very much see, nothing wrong with it. it wasnt trying to be cool or rebel it was just a nice bonding experience, half the grinding for the same levels. the one thing was having friends i thought might report me. that was alright, i just only had 2 friends i trusted. i also bought some gold from a player who hadnt farmed it (how do i know? he was a famous pker) at the time i wasnt aware it was against the rules, i saw on a forum that actually let u discuss these kinds of things (mayhem makers) he was selling, id always found it hard to make cash so i bought some. i dont see that as that bad. that account got banned for autotyping in w2 (come on i dont want arthritis). i see no problem with any of these things and id like to think i could talk to people on rs about them.

 

if thats not allowed can you just delete that paragraph?

 

anyway end of the day, reporting one unlucky girl solves absolutely nothing. if she gets banned it does nothing, all it does is ruin the time someone put into the account. i see at as a malicious thing to do. especially if she was young n the OP is like 30 something..

 

It's a good thing you're reading this thread, because you should be aware that in real life, casually discussing breaking real life laws can easily result in real life consequences. In all seriousness, you can get arrested depending on what you're doing and what you say about it. Reporting criminal activity is not anything like Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, if you expressed that you thought some laws were bad and should be changed, you could be in real trouble. In a normal society living by the rule of law, you can get in trouble for actually breaking those laws, but typically not for discussing hoped-for changes.

 

Regarding account sharing and gold trading, there are two primary reasons why they are against the rules. These same reasons apply to botting as well, actually.

 

1) Fairness: If each player has to achieve their own levels, gold, etc, it establishes an even playing field. I can understand the desire to get some of these things more easily, but it's not fair to other players. In a single player game it's easy to say it doesn't matter because it only affects how you play the game, but that isn't true for an MMORPG like Runescape. Other players do affect you all the time, in bossing/crashing, PvP, duelling, clan wars, and so on.

 

2) Monetary Incentive: If Jagex can eliminate, or at least reduce, things like RWTing, account sharing, and botting, it eliminates/reduces the monetary incentive for companies to get involved, which results in many problems. We saw the drastic effects of this first-hand with the elimination of the Wilderness a few years back. For those who don't remember or didn't read it at the time, the major driving force there was that these groups were paying for Runescape membership with stolen credit card information. When the legitimate owners of those cards called their credit companies to dispute the charges, Jagex was slapped with fees and a lot of paperwork, and was basically told that if they couldn't stop the large number of bogus charges they were applying to so many stolen cards, the credit companies would stop letting people pay for Runescape membership. Jagex believes they can avoid the same situation now, for reasons I don't believe they've fully disclosed to us, but with the Wilderness and free trade back, it's even more important than ever to reduce some of these activities.

 

already said it but..

 

i would rather an unstable economy than to not say what i want, this isn't just about this one rule, offensive language is another good example. wanna be mods look for trouble, ruin the atmosphere, cause people to not be able to say wat they want in public places for fear of being reported and just generally [cabbage] on everything. i would rather everyone was a bot than to have wanna be mods all over the place.

 

another post is someone being muted for saying, give me your password ill scam you. its the same kind of argument i think.

 

anyway i hate you wanna be mods.

 

I agree that the example you're referring to, of a mute being given for saying "Give me your password I'll scam you", is ridiculous. It should be obvious to anyone that was a joke.

 

At least for my part, if I see someone i.e. swearing in a public place in Runescape I pay it no attention. However I will report if I see people trying to get others to visit a phishy website, or trying to get people to give out their passwords, etc. Cases like the OP's situation are quite rare; most players who do such things are smart enough to realize it's a bad idea to admit to RWTing or botting.

 

In real life, there are some things that can get you in trouble if you're overheard saying them in public; things relating to various crimes. It's the same in Runescape, just with different crimes that are less serious than their real-world counterparts. If you want to replicate a situation where you hang out privately with your friends and chat about whatever, you can use a clan chat for that :).

 

I feel quite the same. I rather play a game with mature, aware and respectable people than immature, unaware and people who show no respect for others. I like the situation we have -- for the most part. People are required to be careful of what they say and abide by the rules. I don't want to imagine RuneScape without a 'report abuse' feature. People reporting others are being protective, granted many may be doing it for the wrong reasons - but then again you shouldn't be saying things/doing things that could get you in trouble. RuneScape without P-Mods or people who have respect for themselves and others who choose to avail of the Report Abuse feature and protect some potential victim would be quite a mess... I think it may still be fresh in peoples minds as to what happened earlier this year, with a young girl and a predator? Granted, these things can -- and quite obviously do still happen, but on a scale that's barely even viewable in reality...Can you guess how common things like this would become without people reporting others?

 

no report abuse button would be ridiculous, but save it for the gold farmers, bots and hackers. personally i dont think scamming is bad.

 

eermm i think reporting people all the time is showing no respect for others. i see no reason why saying u rwt is not showing respect for others. quite the opposite it shows u wanna talk and communicate. runescape without player mods was fine. ive never seen anyone get told off by a player mod, personally, and ive played 100 days on my account. it also cant be that protective because u report someone for somethign that has already occurred. it may hinder them. but i doubt this girl considered buying gold again.

 

also i disagree on p mods having respect for others. i was friends with 3 orginal p mods, they were arogant as! in fact i personally know one of them botted high level fishing. i think make mods for banning bots. you ban the bots, you stop the gold farming, you stop the problem cause by rwt and it doesnt matter if it happens.

 

I have to admit I find it somewhat surreal that you think reporting abuse shows a lack of respect, while scamming does not. We agree regarding removing the bots, at least.

 

point is you rip the head of a flower it survives, u kill the root the flower never grows. in this case the OP is trying to kill a flower for no reason, it will not do anything, only add insult to injury. i wouldve thought you 'mature' players would see that.

 

(oh except your not mature because you spend hours on a kids game)

 

<3:

 

You make an excellent point about getting to the root of the problem. In case you're not aware, Jagex has indicated in the past that they see the same value. If they get reliable information about RWTing, they most likely use it to track down the actual gold farmers/sellers and eventually make their move once they have all the details. Past Jagex postings have indicated that they've chosen to operate this way before, so a simple report by the OP could actually result in a gold farming ring being taken down. Since we're talking about XBox Live gamer cards it's not too likely, but this kind of thing can be important. A more plausible scenario is that they could track down the guy who wanted the XBox Live card, and by banning him prevent him from scamming others $30 at a time.

Alphanos

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[hide]Since you asked, I've gone ahead and replied to your posting :).

 

[hide]

Going over a number of posts, I'm going to generalize the opinions of those opposed to the OP's actions.

 

1) RWTing is bad. Or at least I haven't seen anyone state outright that they support RWT.

2) Okay, the person discussed probably did RWT. This was admitted very reluctantly. (?)

3) But, reporting is worse!

 

So far as I can tell, and as I originally expected, this seems to be motivated by some sort of juvenile "rebellion" thought process. Jagex is an authority figure, therefore going against them is cool because it's going against "the man". Support cheaters because they're cool for defying authority, and anyone who plays by the rules is lame and a suck up, since anarchy is obviously better. If Jagex can catch someone, then oh well, it happens, but don't tattle snitch report because we need to stick together against the nasty teachers po-po Jagex, who just want to spoil everyone's fun.

 

I'm fairly disgusted.

 

If you believe that the existing rules are there for good reason and agree with them, you should be prepared to report rule-breakers. If you believe an existing rule is wrong, say so and defend your position.

 

But if you really believe that the rules are good, yet rule-breakers should not be reported, then you'll need to do a lot better than ad hominem attacks calling people "wanna be mods".

 

It's obvious to everyone that Jagex can't catch all rule violations through automated systems. I don't think the person the OP encountered should be banned, but that isn't what we're talking about. Reporting just lets Jagex apply the same rules, fairly, to everyone. Thinking that the reporter is to blame for the rule-breaker's punishment is like saying that it's a witness' fault for a murderer going to jail - no, actually, it's the fault of the murderer.

 

If the rules are good ones, why shouldn't we do what we can to reduce botting/RWTing/etc?

[/hide]

 

1) Obviously RWT is bad but the consumer isn't the evil one i dont think. if RWT didnt create bots then id literally have no problem with it, i mean who cares? if bots didnt exist RWT would be absolutely fine. i mean we know it does create bots but this player was obviously very young. as are most of the players who play runescape, come on guys its a kids game. all games are kids games. adults are not meant to have the time for extreme gaming like kids do, almost every game is marketed at kids (11-19ish). please dont expect people in runescape to act like 30 year olds, that would be too weerd if everyone playing runescape was 30. hell i personally have a problem with parents playing runescape. anyway point being, she was obviously young and doesnt know about the rule, i mean its not excactly obvious unless you play a lot and come on forums like this. its easy for us forum users to forget that some of the stuff we all think is obvious, in actual fact, is not. so she was young, i have to assume didnt know it was against the rules as she was talking openly and unprovoked, she got scammed for real money which might well have been her pocket money.. and THEN some jumped up wanna be mod over zealous character reports her.. hmm.. what a great day for her.

 

2) i think it was unprovoked.

 

Since none of us were there with the OP, much of this is speculation without a chat log. However, I can agree that since this individual was openly talking about the matter, maybe they really didn't know it was against the rules. Depending on the scenario, maybe I would have discussed it that way with them. However I don't want to judge the OP without having been there - for all I know the person RWTing talked about it in those terms, signifying understanding, or talked about doing it multiple times.

 

Players do have to indicate that they've read and understand the rules before they can register an account. It's also possible (maybe more like probable) that lots of players, including that one, just click through without actually reading. There are consequences to agreeing to terms you don't understand, not just online but in real life.

 

From what I've heard so far, I don't think the player should be banned. But they do need to be made aware that RWTing can get them banned. Without having been in the situation, I'm not in a position to judge whether the player just needed a heads up, or whether they were unrepentant and needed to be reported. Also, it should be pointed out again that reported does not equal banned. Jagex has a complicated system of black marks, etc etc, which they've spent a fair bit of time developing. They have a vested interest themselves in keeping paying members online, while still upholding the rules. However, if everyone doesn't report for fear of getting someone banned, it just means that all rule-breaking will continue unhindered.

 

3) yeah in a case like this, in face i thinkn in most cases. 'rules are made to be broken'. IRL i break laws everyday, constantly lol. i want to be able to talk about breaking laws without fear of someone telling on me. thats like living in nazi germany, with the kids telling on their own parents! (lol well not quite but you know..)

 

i really don't like how you conclude that this is a juvenile rebellion thought process.. i dont know if i can say this, if i cant please delete. but many of my old accounts i shared with my brother, i saw, still very much see, nothing wrong with it. it wasnt trying to be cool or rebel it was just a nice bonding experience, half the grinding for the same levels. the one thing was having friends i thought might report me. that was alright, i just only had 2 friends i trusted. i also bought some gold from a player who hadnt farmed it (how do i know? he was a famous pker) at the time i wasnt aware it was against the rules, i saw on a forum that actually let u discuss these kinds of things (mayhem makers) he was selling, id always found it hard to make cash so i bought some. i dont see that as that bad. that account got banned for autotyping in w2 (come on i dont want arthritis). i see no problem with any of these things and id like to think i could talk to people on rs about them.

 

if thats not allowed can you just delete that paragraph?

 

anyway end of the day, reporting one unlucky girl solves absolutely nothing. if she gets banned it does nothing, all it does is ruin the time someone put into the account. i see at as a malicious thing to do. especially if she was young n the OP is like 30 something..

 

It's a good thing you're reading this thread, because you should be aware that in real life, casually discussing breaking real life laws can easily result in real life consequences. In all seriousness, you can get arrested depending on what you're doing and what you say about it. Reporting criminal activity is not anything like Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, if you expressed that you thought some laws were bad and should be changed, you could be in real trouble. In a normal society living by the rule of law, you can get in trouble for actually breaking those laws, but typically not for discussing hoped-for changes.

 

Regarding account sharing and gold trading, there are two primary reasons why they are against the rules. These same reasons apply to botting as well, actually.

 

1) Fairness: If each player has to achieve their own levels, gold, etc, it establishes an even playing field. I can understand the desire to get some of these things more easily, but it's not fair to other players. In a single player game it's easy to say it doesn't matter because it only affects how you play the game, but that isn't true for an MMORPG like Runescape. Other players do affect you all the time, in bossing/crashing, PvP, duelling, clan wars, and so on.

 

2) Monetary Incentive: If Jagex can eliminate, or at least reduce, things like RWTing, account sharing, and botting, it eliminates/reduces the monetary incentive for companies to get involved, which results in many problems. We saw the drastic effects of this first-hand with the elimination of the Wilderness a few years back. For those who don't remember or didn't read it at the time, the major driving force there was that these groups were paying for Runescape membership with stolen credit card information. When the legitimate owners of those cards called their credit companies to dispute the charges, Jagex was slapped with fees and a lot of paperwork, and was basically told that if they couldn't stop the large number of bogus charges they were applying to so many stolen cards, the credit companies would stop letting people pay for Runescape membership. Jagex believes they can avoid the same situation now, for reasons I don't believe they've fully disclosed to us, but with the Wilderness and free trade back, it's even more important than ever to reduce some of these activities.

 

already said it but..

 

i would rather an unstable economy than to not say what i want, this isn't just about this one rule, offensive language is another good example. wanna be mods look for trouble, ruin the atmosphere, cause people to not be able to say wat they want in public places for fear of being reported and just generally [cabbage] on everything. i would rather everyone was a bot than to have wanna be mods all over the place.

 

another post is someone being muted for saying, give me your password ill scam you. its the same kind of argument i think.

 

anyway i hate you wanna be mods.

 

I agree that the example you're referring to, of a mute being given for saying "Give me your password I'll scam you", is ridiculous. It should be obvious to anyone that was a joke.

 

At least for my part, if I see someone i.e. swearing in a public place in Runescape I pay it no attention. However I will report if I see people trying to get others to visit a phishy website, or trying to get people to give out their passwords, etc. Cases like the OP's situation are quite rare; most players who do such things are smart enough to realize it's a bad idea to admit to RWTing or botting.

 

In real life, there are some things that can get you in trouble if you're overheard saying them in public; things relating to various crimes. It's the same in Runescape, just with different crimes that are less serious than their real-world counterparts. If you want to replicate a situation where you hang out privately with your friends and chat about whatever, you can use a clan chat for that :).

 

I feel quite the same. I rather play a game with mature, aware and respectable people than immature, unaware and people who show no respect for others. I like the situation we have -- for the most part. People are required to be careful of what they say and abide by the rules. I don't want to imagine RuneScape without a 'report abuse' feature. People reporting others are being protective, granted many may be doing it for the wrong reasons - but then again you shouldn't be saying things/doing things that could get you in trouble. RuneScape without P-Mods or people who have respect for themselves and others who choose to avail of the Report Abuse feature and protect some potential victim would be quite a mess... I think it may still be fresh in peoples minds as to what happened earlier this year, with a young girl and a predator? Granted, these things can -- and quite obviously do still happen, but on a scale that's barely even viewable in reality...Can you guess how common things like this would become without people reporting others?

 

no report abuse button would be ridiculous, but save it for the gold farmers, bots and hackers. personally i dont think scamming is bad.

 

eermm i think reporting people all the time is showing no respect for others. i see no reason why saying u rwt is not showing respect for others. quite the opposite it shows u wanna talk and communicate. runescape without player mods was fine. ive never seen anyone get told off by a player mod, personally, and ive played 100 days on my account. it also cant be that protective because u report someone for somethign that has already occurred. it may hinder them. but i doubt this girl considered buying gold again.

 

also i disagree on p mods having respect for others. i was friends with 3 orginal p mods, they were arogant as! in fact i personally know one of them botted high level fishing. i think make mods for banning bots. you ban the bots, you stop the gold farming, you stop the problem cause by rwt and it doesnt matter if it happens.

 

I have to admit I find it somewhat surreal that you think reporting abuse shows a lack of respect, while scamming does not. We agree regarding removing the bots, at least.

 

point is you rip the head of a flower it survives, u kill the root the flower never grows. in this case the OP is trying to kill a flower for no reason, it will not do anything, only add insult to injury. i wouldve thought you 'mature' players would see that.

 

(oh except your not mature because you spend hours on a kids game)

 

<3:

 

You make an excellent point about getting to the root of the problem. In case you're not aware, Jagex has indicated in the past that they see the same value. If they get reliable information about RWTing, they most likely use it to track down the actual gold farmers/sellers and eventually make their move once they have all the details. Past Jagex postings have indicated that they've chosen to operate this way before, so a simple report by the OP could actually result in a gold farming ring being taken down. Since we're talking about XBox Live gamer cards it's not too likely, but this kind of thing can be important. A more plausible scenario is that they could track down the guy who wanted the XBox Live card, and by banning him prevent him from scamming others $30 at a time.

 

[/hide]

 

haha thanks for replying. To be fair in real life i guess you can gauge people pretty well, i guess real lifes not really comparable to rs..

 

i think scamming is totally disrespectful aswell i just dont care it goes on. i also think the inventive scams are really cool to hear about :P

 

its all about victim less crimes, which i runescape there are a few. account sharing, especially a relative, is one i think.

 

edit:i mean trade scams mainly. phishing i dont agree with, azlthough fairplay to people who manage to get people to visit then enter there password! also ddosing because those are just harsh. i count those both as hacking though.

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