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Tip.It War Ranking Changes

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Thanks to everyone's feedback and suggestions. The clan staff is proud to present a few changes to how the TWR will operate:

 

 


  1.  
  2. Enforce TWR activity (1 war per month)
     
  3. Clans that apply have to war within 1 month or they will need to re-apply
     
  4. Any fight between 2 TWR clans will count for TWR; clans no longer have to declare on another clan to earn points. If two TWR clans have an unplanned PKRI, matched opts, etc. and post it in Wars & Run-Ins then both clans will earn points. The option to declare is still open for clans who prefer that route. Please include TWR in the title or topic description so the staff can award points more quickly.

 

 

Any comments, questions, concerns, feel free to ask myself or any of the clan staff.


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Any fight between 2 TWR clans will count for TWR; clans no longer have to declare on another clan to earn points. If two TWR clans have an unplanned PKRI, matched opts, etc. and post it in Wars & Run-Ins then both clans will earn points. The option to declare is still open for clans who prefer that route. Please include TWR in the title or topic description so the staff can award points more quickly.

 

Best of the 3 that Im certain will make some kind of difference for the better.


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still think 1 month of no warring is way to inactive but hopefully this encourages more activity for twr


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Glad to see something happening with the TWR.

 

I still don't think the changes address the fundamental way that runescape has changed (i.e. the return of the wilderness, along with the fact that few clans now restrict themselves to Clan Wars) but at least you guys are clearing out the dead weight.

 

Good luck gettinng active again TWR :) :thumbup:


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hopefully this will boost the activity somewhat, good luck


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all good rules, number 3 in particular!


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these won't do much but what ever, hopefully it does..

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Glad to see something happening with the TWR.

 

I still don't think the changes address the fundamental way that runescape has changed (i.e. the return of the wilderness, along with the fact that few clans now restrict themselves to Clan Wars) but at least you guys are clearing out the dead weight.

 

Good luck gettinng active again TWR :) :thumbup:

 

Feel free to send us ideas about ways we can adapt. :P


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With love to one, friendship to many, and good will to all.

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Glad to see something happening with the TWR.

 

I still don't think the changes address the fundamental way that runescape has changed (i.e. the return of the wilderness, along with the fact that few clans now restrict themselves to Clan Wars) but at least you guys are clearing out the dead weight.

 

Good luck gettinng active again TWR :) :thumbup:

 

One step at a time, friend. :)

 

I hope to see clans getting more active within the Rankings. We still have other ideas currently being discussed too, so this isn't the last you'll hear for a while.


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Former Tip.It Clan Community Leader

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Thanks to everyone's feedback and suggestions. The clan staff is proud to present a few changes to how the TWR will operate:

 

 


  1.  
  2. Enforce TWR activity (1 war per month)
     
  3. Clans that apply have to war within 1 month or they will need to re-apply
     
  4. Any fight between 2 TWR clans will count for TWR; clans no longer have to declare on another clan to earn points. If two TWR clans have an unplanned PKRI, matched opts, etc. and post it in Wars & Run-Ins then both clans will earn points. The option to declare is still open for clans who prefer that route. Please include TWR in the title or topic description so the staff can award points more quickly.

 

 

Any comments, questions, concerns, feel free to ask myself or any of the clan staff.

Thank you!

 

1 and 3 pretty much go hand-in-hand considering how improbable it would be for any given clan to not run into another TWR clan in the Wilderness unless they simply don't go out.

 

 

Anyway, please clarify what happens/who decides on the results of an undecided undeclared Wilderness fight in which there isn't a clear winner.

 

Will length/opts/opt difference matter in the number of points received per fight? Will any encounter between two clans count or must the encounter encompass a significant portion of the trip?


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Looks Good!

The only question i have is that what happens if a clan has two rounds to a fight, and wins one but loses the other, how would the points be decided then? (i realise the answer kinda seems obvious but i'm just wondering how it'll work exactly).

 

Anyway this should help with activity :)


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Glad to see something happening with the TWR.

 

I still don't think the changes address the fundamental way that runescape has changed (i.e. the return of the wilderness, along with the fact that few clans now restrict themselves to Clan Wars) but at least you guys are clearing out the dead weight.

 

Good luck gettinng active again TWR :) :thumbup:

 

Feel free to send us ideas about ways we can adapt. :P

 

 

I posted a topic in the Clan Staff Lounge several months ago that should probably still be there and summed up a comprehensive plan. None of the other Clan Mods / CL's supported it so it was pretty much left for dead. Essentially, my main points for change were: 1. Make the TWR wildy-based instead of Clan Wars based, 2. Allow PKRI's as a valid form of TWR war (along with the standard matched options and full-out knock-out wars), 3. Make the default warring rules by all-styles and full-outs, and 4. Get rid of dead weight clans who aren't actively warring.

 

I also posted a bit on this topic about the pros and cons of Clan Wars: http://forum.tip.it/topic/287726-clan-discussion-improvementssuggestions/page__st__20

 

[hide]

Prior to the release of clan wars there was only the big clans of Zybez. Clan wars changed all that, it gave everybody a chance at warring, they could see what it was like, and most of them thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Gotta disagree with that, prior to the release of Clan Wars (i.e. the 'old wilderness') there was much more activity from small and mid-level clans. The RAW list used to have 50 clans on it, with 25 more on the waiting list. Only the top 10 or so were 'big' clans, the rest were mid- and small-sized clans. If anything, Clan Wars killed off a lot of the mid-level clans.

 

When I was a CL here I really felt that the TWR needed to go to a wildernerss-based format to be able to thrive and grow. Clan Wars was fine when that was all we had, but now there is an alternative and Clan Wars is left for those who are too weak or inexperienced or nervous to fight in the wilderness.

 

With the return of the wilderness there's really no reason why any clan would want to do Clan Wars anymore. Clan Wars is a very narrow slice of the total warring experience. If you are in a melee+binds only clan (which most TWR clans were when it was really going well) then you basically negate 90% of the warring experience.

 

Cons of Clan Wars (melee+binds):

 

1. Little or no emotion attached - If you die, you lose nothing. So most people are willing to bind, but not in the real wilderness. Binding in the real wilderness makes you an instant target for the other clan's snipers. And when you die, you lose 200k. In Clan Wars, if you're sniped you put up pray and run around a wall until it stops. In the wilderness, you get camped by snipers until you die or quit binding. Only the most dedicated will keep binding through snipers. It's a real difference.

 

2. Only planned fights occur (no chance encounters) - One of the great joys of rivalries is hunting your rival. In Clan Wars you can't do this. You have to ask them nicely for a fight. Which sucks. Which is more fun: "Pleeeeese fight us on Saturday at 2:00 PM, matched options, no dungeoneering or corrupt items" or "If you step in the wildy, we will kill you and all your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Mwuhahahahahahahahaha!"

 

Quick counter to those who say "you might not get a fight at all in the wilderness!" You will almost always find action. In RSD right now, very few clans want to fight us because we have the capability to pull 120+ people. But we still find a fight almost every day.

 

3. Too many rules (limitations) in Clan Wars - Melee + binds only, no range, no blasts, no dungeoneering items, no corrupt items, etc. etc. etc. Yawn. If a wilderness fight has rules, it's only to establish boundaries or sniper caps. Most fights don't even have those. Fight until the other guy quits is a lot more enjoyable.

 

4. Loss of 2/3 of the combat triangle (no blasts, no range) - Similar to #3, it's way too limiting. What incentive is there for mid-level clans to train range when it's never allowed? I remember back in '07 or so Dragonwood made a name for themelves with their range unit. They had a lot of maxed rangers in a medium-level clan and really used it to their advantage. In Clan Wars with all it's rules and limitations, what's the point in doing this?

 

5. No looting - Not just rune, which is nice, but supplies as well. With the return of the 'old wildy' we can now loot runes, food, arrows, and basically stay on the battlefield indefinitely. For the clan that is winning it increases their advantage as they don't have to return as much and will cut down on outlasting.

 

6. No returning - In Clan Wars it takes only 30 seconds or so to return, or if you got KO'ed, literally 1 second to return. It's lame.

 

7. No publicity - This might be the most important thing for Tip.it should they ever switch to a wildy-based TWR. When we (RSD) fight another big clan there's usually 100's of extra people around throughout the fight. There's AC'ers, crashers, looters, and watchers, all playing minor roles in the fight. So when our topic goes up on RSC, there's literally 300-400 people who had some part in the fight, and another 100 who want to post simply to antagonize the people who were there. For better or worse, that one fight will generate more posts than 50 Tip.it fights. Not many people care about Clan Wars, look at the Clan Wars topics on RSC, they rarely get more than 3 pages of responses, which there is a dead topic.

 

With lots of posts come lots of trolls. Tip.it has been up until now very restrictive of trolling, which has obviously driven the trolls away, but it also drives away a lot of the drama and argumentitive posts. In a Tip.it fight post, 95% of the responses are 'good fight' or some variation of that. On RSC, 50% of the posts are 'good fight' and the other 50% are people arguing about some point or other.

 

If Tip.it wants to get away from the 'small clan' image, it will have to go out of its way to do so. My idea was to have a ranking system that included PKRI's as a valid war, but that's just one idea. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Unfortunately that's what's going on with the TWR right now. Most everyone would agree that the current system isn't driving good activity or any new activity, but none are willing to change it.

 

Pro's of Clan Wars:

 

No Crashing - Except for unsecured CC's and portal hopping.

 

Feel free to debate any or all of these points, or add your own :)

 

 

How Do we attract these people form Runescape to Tip.It

 

How do we change the notoriously conservative attitude of the average RSoF User?

 

While several people do graduate from RSB clans to RSC and Tip.it clanning, most do not. I don't know if it's their conservative nature or just an unwillingness to leave their comfort zone, but I don't see a lot of RSB graduates. A few, but not a lot.

 

I think one thing that has hurt mid-level clanning is when Clan Wars came around, the clans who really loved the wildy slowly died out. And with their departure were their non-wildy events. I remember back in TDM when it was really active we had 2-3 wars and PK's a week, but also another 10-15 non-wildy events that were visible to the non-clanning world. If you see 15 people killing Bandos, or 40 fishing at Catherby, it might make you want to join one of those clans. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-wildy clanning event in RS . . it's been a while. No events = no publicity.

 

Get the forums active

 

Get New Posters

 

Get Good, Meanigful Discussions running on a consistent basis

 

Chilax a little with the rules. I know it's often said the mods are more lenient here than anywhere else on the forums, but still, I think action should only be taken against a player if they spam, start a flame war or directly insult a member of staff.

 

Unban the banned

 

Advertise CD on other parts of the form - this gets new posters in which picks up activity which will bring old posters back!

 

Your first three points here are pretty well summed up with the third point about good, meaningful discussions. Do that, and people will want to contribute. Build it, and they will come :)

 

Unbanning the banned - Don't really agree with this one. Most of the people who are banned are banned for good reason. And no one gets banned without several warnings in advance, so they knew what was coming but chose to continue their bad behavior anyways. Rules are rules, and you follow them . . . posting on Tip.it is a priveledge, not a right. Abuse it and it's gone. I agree with that. I do also agree, however, that if we want increased activity there needs to be a lenient approach to arguments, as long as they are related to in-game things. Once they cross into personal insults and flames, that's where the line is crossed.

 

As for Tacatar it's not her first language - and if i remember correctly, you speak just one. So her to speak two, she's doing pretty good in my book. I value her versatility in that department. Sure her English isn't perfect, but mine isn't either.

 

 

Cool, it's a shame we are on a english runescape board though and not in Asia looking to hiring a translator.

 

You know, when you post [wagon] comments that's all people will take away from them; is that you're an [wagon]. All the good points you might have made are lost. The previous Clan Staff who've worked with you all seem to think you're fairly intelligent and could do good things if you wanted to, but all I see is an [wagon].

 

The personal attack on her on this topic is an example of the attitude of posting we shouldn't be seeing here, not because it's rude but because it makes our forums just like RSC. We all know what RSC forums are like and I'm not prepared to let Tip.It stoop down to RSC's level, and neither would anybody moderating the clan forums.

 

If the goal of Tip.it is to become much more active, then some amount of debate and/or argument needs to be allowed to transpire. 'Good fight' comments are boring to read and won't attract much attention. Nor do Clan Wars fights. So a little bit of RSC-style posts aren't all bad.

 

Regarding Pan's post, it's outright insulting and a direct attack on one person's attempt to speak in a second language. Taca is one of the most active CL's I've seen in quite a while and certainly not deserving of that kind of garbage. No clan community allows that kind of post, not even RSC. I'm amazed it hasn't been deleted already.

 

Secondly, I have personal thoughts about how we could improve TWR to expand the amount of clans posting on these forums. Like Das said, there's a big topic behind closed doors and once we have made a decision amongst ourselves about whether the ideas could work, we most likely will be discussing this with clan officials. I'm not going to give too much away, but we aren't sitting back letting this activity happen without consequence or change. I can promise you that much.

 

This isn't really directed at you Jack, since you've only been a CL for a short time. But that topic you're referring to has been up around a year, I know because I posted a proposal to change the TWR around then that evolved into a discussion of what we should and shouldn't do in regards to changing the TWR to make it more attractive. The end result of all that discussion was that nothing happened. There might be a new post up, but the concept isn't new. Hopefully you guys are able to make more happen than I was; when I was there we talked for over a year and couldn't agree on anything, and discussion topics in the Conclave went unanswered for the most part.

 

Over the past year we've (the Clan Staff) had several conversations and topics about how the TWR needs to change and adapt, and for over a year we've done nothing. During that time the TWR went from marginally active to completely inactive. The TWR in its current form is dead. Unless there is something new and exciting added, it will probably stay dead.[/hide]

 

In a nutshell, the TWR is set up to be a revolving-door ranking system for 'newbie' clans. That wasn't true when the TWR was really popular, as we didn't have an alternative - there was no wilderness to fight in. Now there is, and it's obvious that clans prefer that system. The only clans that want to stay CWA-only are clans that are either inexperienced at warring or are nervous about losing 200k in a wilderness fight. Which is pretty much 'newbie' clans. I know there are CWA-based teams that are both experienced and CWA-only, but that's a small percentage of the clanning world and they have always been free to join the TWR anyways and for the most part haven't (or haven't been particulary active on it while members). Once clans gain experience, they usually leave the TWR and seek wilderness fights.

 

Look at the TWR clans that were active in the heyday of the TWR. While most have closed, the ones that are still around are now primarily wildy-based (or were before they closed): Downfall, DV, CR, DW, TK. A similar exercise would be to look over the current list of ranked TWR clans and see which ones do primarily wilderness fights. It's quite a few of them. Which brings us to a fundamental problem: by making the TWR Clan Wars based by default, you put PVP clans at the mercy of CWA clans.

 

Let's take a clan like PH (#14). PH is capable of pulling 100+ options and is primarily wilderness-based (I know PH hasn't warred since August but they're still ranked on the TWR). Now pair them with a primarily CWA based team like Legendz (#10), who has been a fixture on the TWR for quite a while. Should they try to set up a fight, PH will have to bend to all of Legendz preferences, simply because the TWR says so. I imagine the rules would look similar to this:

 

Clan Wars Center Bounds

Matched Options or House Rules (20 v 20)

Rings Allowed

No Blasts

 

All of these rules benefit Legendz, who would clearly be the weaker clan in a random no-rules matchup. Legendz is far more experienced at Clan Wars, giving them an advantage here. PH routinely pulls 30+ people, so they would likely end up cutting. PH also is used to fighting all-styles, in this fight they would not be able to. So what's the benefit for PH in this scenario? None, and that's exactly why they haven't warred on the TWR in 7 months. Given that the TWR has historically been plagued by clans that pull 10-15 people, it is a problem that is not likely to go away on its own. Nor is it likely to attract new clans, very few experienced clans want to fight hour-long 10v10 melee+binds fights. They're just boring. (No offense meant to Legendz on this post, I just needed a Clan Wars TWR team for comparison and I saw you pulled 16 on your last TWR fight.)

 

In my opinon, to get the TWR more active and also the Clan Discussion forum (a rising tide lifts all boats) then you're going to have to get clans that are both active and that people want to talk about. No one is going to care one lick about a matched 10v10 except for the clans involved. And the current TWR system will only attract and maintain small Clan Wars teams.


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first things first

 

DV were never pvp based, nor would they ever get there. Also TK just warred the same 1-3 clans over and over and invited a bunch of friends when they pk'd.

 

 

2. Allow pkris for twr

 

To my knowledge they are allowed lol, and this post would re instate that they are allowed w/ rule #3

 

Also I could see LGZ doing a full out or a cwri against ph or at least a cap of 30-40 or something, but now if they have to fight in pvp they have to bend all the rules to ph's favor?

 

When you have a Ranking system with clans that like pvp and clans that like cwa it's hard to satisfy both and get fair wars, but I wouldn't mind seeing more clans in pvp I just don't think they are built for it.

 

I agree with most of the other stuff, just skimmed over it really quick though.


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Glad to see something happening with the TWR.

 

I still don't think the changes address the fundamental way that runescape has changed (i.e. the return of the wilderness, along with the fact that few clans now restrict themselves to Clan Wars) but at least you guys are clearing out the dead weight.

 

Good luck gettinng active again TWR :) :thumbup:

 

Feel free to send us ideas about ways we can adapt. :P

 

 

I posted a topic in the Clan Staff Lounge several months ago that should probably still be there and summed up a comprehensive plan. None of the other Clan Mods / CL's supported it so it was pretty much left for dead. Essentially, my main points for change were: 1. Make the TWR wildy-based instead of Clan Wars based, 2. Allow PKRI's as a valid form of TWR war (along with the standard matched options and full-out knock-out wars), 3. Make the default warring rules by all-styles and full-outs, and 4. Get rid of dead weight clans who aren't actively warring.

 

I also posted a bit on this topic about the pros and cons of Clan Wars: http://forum.tip.it/topic/287726-clan-discussion-improvementssuggestions/page__st__20

 

[hide]

Prior to the release of clan wars there was only the big clans of Zybez. Clan wars changed all that, it gave everybody a chance at warring, they could see what it was like, and most of them thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Gotta disagree with that, prior to the release of Clan Wars (i.e. the 'old wilderness') there was much more activity from small and mid-level clans. The RAW list used to have 50 clans on it, with 25 more on the waiting list. Only the top 10 or so were 'big' clans, the rest were mid- and small-sized clans. If anything, Clan Wars killed off a lot of the mid-level clans.

 

When I was a CL here I really felt that the TWR needed to go to a wildernerss-based format to be able to thrive and grow. Clan Wars was fine when that was all we had, but now there is an alternative and Clan Wars is left for those who are too weak or inexperienced or nervous to fight in the wilderness.

 

With the return of the wilderness there's really no reason why any clan would want to do Clan Wars anymore. Clan Wars is a very narrow slice of the total warring experience. If you are in a melee+binds only clan (which most TWR clans were when it was really going well) then you basically negate 90% of the warring experience.

 

Cons of Clan Wars (melee+binds):

 

1. Little or no emotion attached - If you die, you lose nothing. So most people are willing to bind, but not in the real wilderness. Binding in the real wilderness makes you an instant target for the other clan's snipers. And when you die, you lose 200k. In Clan Wars, if you're sniped you put up pray and run around a wall until it stops. In the wilderness, you get camped by snipers until you die or quit binding. Only the most dedicated will keep binding through snipers. It's a real difference.

 

2. Only planned fights occur (no chance encounters) - One of the great joys of rivalries is hunting your rival. In Clan Wars you can't do this. You have to ask them nicely for a fight. Which sucks. Which is more fun: "Pleeeeese fight us on Saturday at 2:00 PM, matched options, no dungeoneering or corrupt items" or "If you step in the wildy, we will kill you and all your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Mwuhahahahahahahahaha!"

 

Quick counter to those who say "you might not get a fight at all in the wilderness!" You will almost always find action. In RSD right now, very few clans want to fight us because we have the capability to pull 120+ people. But we still find a fight almost every day.

 

3. Too many rules (limitations) in Clan Wars - Melee + binds only, no range, no blasts, no dungeoneering items, no corrupt items, etc. etc. etc. Yawn. If a wilderness fight has rules, it's only to establish boundaries or sniper caps. Most fights don't even have those. Fight until the other guy quits is a lot more enjoyable.

 

4. Loss of 2/3 of the combat triangle (no blasts, no range) - Similar to #3, it's way too limiting. What incentive is there for mid-level clans to train range when it's never allowed? I remember back in '07 or so Dragonwood made a name for themelves with their range unit. They had a lot of maxed rangers in a medium-level clan and really used it to their advantage. In Clan Wars with all it's rules and limitations, what's the point in doing this?

 

5. No looting - Not just rune, which is nice, but supplies as well. With the return of the 'old wildy' we can now loot runes, food, arrows, and basically stay on the battlefield indefinitely. For the clan that is winning it increases their advantage as they don't have to return as much and will cut down on outlasting.

 

6. No returning - In Clan Wars it takes only 30 seconds or so to return, or if you got KO'ed, literally 1 second to return. It's lame.

 

7. No publicity - This might be the most important thing for Tip.it should they ever switch to a wildy-based TWR. When we (RSD) fight another big clan there's usually 100's of extra people around throughout the fight. There's AC'ers, crashers, looters, and watchers, all playing minor roles in the fight. So when our topic goes up on RSC, there's literally 300-400 people who had some part in the fight, and another 100 who want to post simply to antagonize the people who were there. For better or worse, that one fight will generate more posts than 50 Tip.it fights. Not many people care about Clan Wars, look at the Clan Wars topics on RSC, they rarely get more than 3 pages of responses, which there is a dead topic.

 

With lots of posts come lots of trolls. Tip.it has been up until now very restrictive of trolling, which has obviously driven the trolls away, but it also drives away a lot of the drama and argumentitive posts. In a Tip.it fight post, 95% of the responses are 'good fight' or some variation of that. On RSC, 50% of the posts are 'good fight' and the other 50% are people arguing about some point or other.

 

If Tip.it wants to get away from the 'small clan' image, it will have to go out of its way to do so. My idea was to have a ranking system that included PKRI's as a valid war, but that's just one idea. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Unfortunately that's what's going on with the TWR right now. Most everyone would agree that the current system isn't driving good activity or any new activity, but none are willing to change it.

 

Pro's of Clan Wars:

 

No Crashing - Except for unsecured CC's and portal hopping.

 

Feel free to debate any or all of these points, or add your own :)

 

 

How Do we attract these people form Runescape to Tip.It

 

How do we change the notoriously conservative attitude of the average RSoF User?

 

While several people do graduate from RSB clans to RSC and Tip.it clanning, most do not. I don't know if it's their conservative nature or just an unwillingness to leave their comfort zone, but I don't see a lot of RSB graduates. A few, but not a lot.

 

I think one thing that has hurt mid-level clanning is when Clan Wars came around, the clans who really loved the wildy slowly died out. And with their departure were their non-wildy events. I remember back in TDM when it was really active we had 2-3 wars and PK's a week, but also another 10-15 non-wildy events that were visible to the non-clanning world. If you see 15 people killing Bandos, or 40 fishing at Catherby, it might make you want to join one of those clans. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-wildy clanning event in RS . . it's been a while. No events = no publicity.

 

Get the forums active

 

Get New Posters

 

Get Good, Meanigful Discussions running on a consistent basis

 

Chilax a little with the rules. I know it's often said the mods are more lenient here than anywhere else on the forums, but still, I think action should only be taken against a player if they spam, start a flame war or directly insult a member of staff.

 

Unban the banned

 

Advertise CD on other parts of the form - this gets new posters in which picks up activity which will bring old posters back!

 

Your first three points here are pretty well summed up with the third point about good, meaningful discussions. Do that, and people will want to contribute. Build it, and they will come :)

 

Unbanning the banned - Don't really agree with this one. Most of the people who are banned are banned for good reason. And no one gets banned without several warnings in advance, so they knew what was coming but chose to continue their bad behavior anyways. Rules are rules, and you follow them . . . posting on Tip.it is a priveledge, not a right. Abuse it and it's gone. I agree with that. I do also agree, however, that if we want increased activity there needs to be a lenient approach to arguments, as long as they are related to in-game things. Once they cross into personal insults and flames, that's where the line is crossed.

 

As for Tacatar it's not her first language - and if i remember correctly, you speak just one. So her to speak two, she's doing pretty good in my book. I value her versatility in that department. Sure her English isn't perfect, but mine isn't either.

 

 

Cool, it's a shame we are on a english runescape board though and not in Asia looking to hiring a translator.

 

You know, when you post [wagon] comments that's all people will take away from them; is that you're an [wagon]. All the good points you might have made are lost. The previous Clan Staff who've worked with you all seem to think you're fairly intelligent and could do good things if you wanted to, but all I see is an [wagon].

 

The personal attack on her on this topic is an example of the attitude of posting we shouldn't be seeing here, not because it's rude but because it makes our forums just like RSC. We all know what RSC forums are like and I'm not prepared to let Tip.It stoop down to RSC's level, and neither would anybody moderating the clan forums.

 

If the goal of Tip.it is to become much more active, then some amount of debate and/or argument needs to be allowed to transpire. 'Good fight' comments are boring to read and won't attract much attention. Nor do Clan Wars fights. So a little bit of RSC-style posts aren't all bad.

 

Regarding Pan's post, it's outright insulting and a direct attack on one person's attempt to speak in a second language. Taca is one of the most active CL's I've seen in quite a while and certainly not deserving of that kind of garbage. No clan community allows that kind of post, not even RSC. I'm amazed it hasn't been deleted already.

 

Secondly, I have personal thoughts about how we could improve TWR to expand the amount of clans posting on these forums. Like Das said, there's a big topic behind closed doors and once we have made a decision amongst ourselves about whether the ideas could work, we most likely will be discussing this with clan officials. I'm not going to give too much away, but we aren't sitting back letting this activity happen without consequence or change. I can promise you that much.

 

This isn't really directed at you Jack, since you've only been a CL for a short time. But that topic you're referring to has been up around a year, I know because I posted a proposal to change the TWR around then that evolved into a discussion of what we should and shouldn't do in regards to changing the TWR to make it more attractive. The end result of all that discussion was that nothing happened. There might be a new post up, but the concept isn't new. Hopefully you guys are able to make more happen than I was; when I was there we talked for over a year and couldn't agree on anything, and discussion topics in the Conclave went unanswered for the most part.

 

Over the past year we've (the Clan Staff) had several conversations and topics about how the TWR needs to change and adapt, and for over a year we've done nothing. During that time the TWR went from marginally active to completely inactive. The TWR in its current form is dead. Unless there is something new and exciting added, it will probably stay dead.[/hide]

 

In a nutshell, the TWR is set up to be a revolving-door ranking system for 'newbie' clans. That wasn't true when the TWR was really popular, as we didn't have an alternative - there was no wilderness to fight in. Now there is, and it's obvious that clans prefer that system. The only clans that want to stay CWA-only are clans that are either inexperienced at warring or are nervous about losing 200k in a wilderness fight. Which is pretty much 'newbie' clans. I know there are CWA-based teams that are both experienced and CWA-only, but that's a small percentage of the clanning world and they have always been free to join the TWR anyways and for the most part haven't (or haven't been particulary active on it while members). Once clans gain experience, they usually leave the TWR and seek wilderness fights.

 

Look at the TWR clans that were active in the heyday of the TWR. While most have closed, the ones that are still around are now primarily wildy-based (or were before they closed): Downfall, DV, CR, DW, TK. A similar exercise would be to look over the current list of ranked TWR clans and see which ones do primarily wilderness fights. It's quite a few of them. Which brings us to a fundamental problem: by making the TWR Clan Wars based by default, you put PVP clans at the mercy of CWA clans.

 

Let's take a clan like PH (#14). PH is capable of pulling 100+ options and is primarily wilderness-based (I know PH hasn't warred since August but they're still ranked on the TWR). Now pair them with a primarily CWA based team like Legendz (#10), who has been a fixture on the TWR for quite a while. Should they try to set up a fight, PH will have to bend to all of Legendz preferences, simply because the TWR says so. I imagine the rules would look similar to this:

 

Clan Wars Center Bounds

Matched Options or House Rules (20 v 20)

Rings Allowed

No Blasts

 

All of these rules benefit Legendz, who would clearly be the weaker clan in a random no-rules matchup. Legendz is far more experienced at Clan Wars, giving them an advantage here. PH routinely pulls 30+ people, so they would likely end up cutting. PH also is used to fighting all-styles, in this fight they would not be able to. So what's the benefit for PH in this scenario? None, and that's exactly why they haven't warred on the TWR in 7 months. Given that the TWR has historically been plagued by clans that pull 10-15 people, it is a problem that is not likely to go away on its own. Nor is it likely to attract new clans, very few experienced clans want to fight hour-long 10v10 melee+binds fights. They're just boring. (No offense meant to Legendz on this post, I just needed a Clan Wars TWR team for comparison and I saw you pulled 16 on your last TWR fight.)

 

In my opinon, to get the TWR more active and also the Clan Discussion forum (a rising tide lifts all boats) then you're going to have to get clans that are both active and that people want to talk about. No one is going to care one lick about a matched 10v10 except for the clans involved. And the current TWR system will only attract and maintain small Clan Wars teams.

 

Thing is we did try time and time again to make some reforms in TWR to make it more friendly for some clans.. But none of it went any where, after that fight vs LND (i think) where we had to fight them, we had no choice, we pulled 42 people i think and cut down to 11, for matched opts and lost. How was that fun? it wasn't.

 

 

I dont think LGZ surpasses ph to much in cwa experience, its not like we don't do it at all anymore, we never stopped we just didn't fight ON TWR anymore for cwa fights, just off base wars, vs Downfall, Tko, Se, TCL, WL, HA whatever clan we usually fight in cwa.

 

 

TWR was a good experience for us when clans wouldn't agree to fight us because we were 'open cc team' and once we made them fight us, in their rules and we won, there was nothing left to prove, we just surpassed most of TWR and decided to focus more on PVP. Don't get me wrong we are willing to be more active in TWR if it was worth it for us.

 

I personally tried to make it more active in general for tip.it and ph and all clans involved we had some good drama and beef going on and lost of discussion value don't really know whats going on now days, haven't checked tip.it in ages lol.

 

More variety, more fun, more fairness and no crap declares, if your clan doesn't pull more than 10 you cant declare on a clan that pulls 30+, and waste their time, you gota do more interesting rules, sounds as rounds, ALL STYLES, Cwri's AND PKRI'S.

 

heck try to pair clans to do 2v2 pkri's planned with A planned AC, that would help so much. A lot of clans would be willing to AC to kick that off and once clans feel comfortable around PKING and warring in PVP they wouldn't need ac.

 

:)

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What happens if 2 TWR clans are warring in pvp and another TWR clan crashes?


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great point adr1an.

 

maybe a deduction in points or so, not sure :P

 

although im sure the crashers wont care.

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@Billy

1) The points system actually encourages PVP fights by giving bonuses for both clans that fight in PVP.

2) PKRIs are a valid form for TWR.

3) I'll bring that back up with the staff.

4) If you look at #1 and #2 of the changes they should help remove inactive clans. Inactives will be removed soon.

 

Thank you!

 

1 and 3 pretty much go hand-in-hand considering how improbable it would be for any given clan to not run into another TWR clan in the Wilderness unless they simply don't go out.

 

 

Anyway, please clarify what happens/who decides on the results of an undecided undeclared Wilderness fight in which there isn't a clear winner.

 

Will length/opts/opt difference matter in the number of points received per fight? Will any encounter between two clans count or must the encounter encompass a significant portion of the trip?

 

If both clans call it a draw we might divide the points evenly or assign both clans points based on ending (see info in spoiler). If you check the spoiler below, you'll see that ending opts plays a part in the points earned. Length tends to affect opts and opt difference and performance by the losing clan can affect the winner's performance also. The minimum duration of a fight will be something I'll need to discuss with the staff.

 

[spoiler=Points]

Points Winner gets 100 points + Ending ops (ie number of people left at the end)

The loser gets 50 points.

 

Bonus points are awarded for full out wars and pvp wars.

Both winners and losers get the following bonus points.

 

20% extra points for a pvp fight

10% extra points for a full out fight

 

A fullout, pvp fight would get 30% bonus points.

 

Note: this system requires ending ops for the winners, so please ensure a screenie is taken!

 

 

Looks Good!

The only question i have is that what happens if a clan has two rounds to a fight, and wins one but loses the other, how would the points be decided then? (i realise the answer kinda seems obvious but i'm just wondering how it'll work exactly).

 

Anyway this should help with activity :)

 

Clans are each awarded points based on the round they won.

 

What happens if 2 TWR clans are warring in pvp and another TWR clan crashes?

 

I'll have to discuss this with staff but possibly removal from the TWR, same way as the TICT was.


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With love to one, friendship to many, and good will to all.

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just a thought maybe give a few points for acing a twr pvp fight.


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As Kong proposed decreasing points for a TWR clan/team when they crash a fight of two TWR clan/teams.

 

So awarding points for a clan that AC's (even if it didn't had to do anything) should be awarded as well, like Dan said.

 

The system is getting some 'body'. :thumbup:


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12,079 Profile views. Get on my level.

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If a clan official wants to make a topic in Conclave about points for ACing and how many points (if agree) a clan should earn for ACing and how long they might need to AC for.


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With love to one, friendship to many, and good will to all.

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points for acing a twr pvp fight should be based on how many the ac pulled and how long they stayed you guys can figure out how much or the other parts of the formula but i think having pull and length of acing is the only fair way to give points out


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