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08-Mar-2011 � Artisans Workshop


Michael

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this update really did catch me by surprise.

 

now instead of a useless skill, we have a useless skill with a minigame?

 

an item that people in combat level of as low as 60 are commonly seen it, still requires level 99 smiting to make.

but other then that, so far i cant complain.

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Adamant Ceremonial swords aren't bad.

 

25 Adamant Ores ~= 27k

150 Coal ~= 3k

Avg XP per Sword: 5.5k

 

6gp/xp or so, in a much less boring fashion.

Maybe you should check your math, 20 gp each coal?

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I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy of these "debates". The majority of players that I've seen in RS are so obsessed with being efficient and maximizing their xp/hr or gp/hr or something/hr that they forget to have fun, then when something comes along that actually BOOSTS xp/hr and is fun, everybody cries like children that "it's too easy" or "it cheapens the skill". You're just jealous and butt-hurt that the update wasn't released when you needed it to be and are now scrambling to find any excuse to tear it down.

Grow up people! Think outside the box for a moment; if an update makes a certain resource rise in price (in this case, ores), cash in on it! Grab your tools and start gathering that resource to sell to the feebs who are buying it at the artificially inflated price! Then when the price stabilizes, you have a fat stack of cash that took less effort to get because of the update. Sounds pretty damn "rewarding" to me.

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I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy of these "debates". The majority of players that I've seen in RS are so obsessed with being efficient and maximizing their xp/hr or gp/hr or something/hr that they forget to have fun, then when something comes along that actually BOOSTS xp/hr and is fun, everybody cries like children that "it's too easy" or "it cheapens the skill". You're just jealous and butt-hurt that the update wasn't released when you needed it to be and are now scrambling to find any excuse to tear it down.

Grow up people! Think outside the box for a moment; if an update makes a certain resource rise in price (in this case, ores), cash in on it! Grab your tools and start gathering that resource to sell to the feebs who are buying it at the artificially inflated price! Then when the price stabilizes, you have a fat stack of cash that took less effort to get because of the update. Sounds pretty damn "rewarding" to me.

Except that this isn't really fun and it isn't better than any old methods of training. It's a worthless update. I do agree with what you're saying though: RPGs evolve, and it is their nature that things get easier over the course of the game. *shrugs* Deal with it or don't play an MMORPG.

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I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy of these "debates". The majority of players that I've seen in RS are so obsessed with being efficient and maximizing their xp/hr or gp/hr or something/hr that they forget to have fun, then when something comes along that actually BOOSTS xp/hr and is fun, everybody cries like children that "it's too easy" or "it cheapens the skill". You're just jealous and butt-hurt that the update wasn't released when you needed it to be and are now scrambling to find any excuse to tear it down.

Grow up people! Think outside the box for a moment; if an update makes a certain resource rise in price (in this case, ores), cash in on it! Grab your tools and start gathering that resource to sell to the feebs who are buying it at the artificially inflated price! Then when the price stabilizes, you have a fat stack of cash that took less effort to get because of the update. Sounds pretty damn "rewarding" to me.

 

I couldn't care if skills get easier, that doesn't bother me. Its the uselessness of so many skills that bother me, and Jagex missed the mark on making smithing useful with this update.

 

And some people find efficiency and near max exp/h fun.

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i have nothing against the inevitable xp creep - for example herblore habitat

 

i have a problem with updates that introduce no gameplay value and only increase xp rates - for example choking ivy

 

i have a problem with updates that introduce potential gameplay value but are defunct from inception - for example charm sprite hunting

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To all the people interested in a RuneScape without skills getting cheapened or new graphics looking "hideous", here's something for you:

http://www.runescape.com/classicapplet/playclassic.ws

 

Cannons still look the same and smithing is even slower!

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I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy of these "debates". The majority of players that I've seen in RS are so obsessed with being efficient and maximizing their xp/hr or gp/hr or something/hr that they forget to have fun, then when something comes along that actually BOOSTS xp/hr and is fun, everybody cries like children that "it's too easy" or "it cheapens the skill". You're just jealous and butt-hurt that the update wasn't released when you needed it to be and are now scrambling to find any excuse to tear it down.

Grow up people! Think outside the box for a moment; if an update makes a certain resource rise in price (in this case, ores), cash in on it! Grab your tools and start gathering that resource to sell to the feebs who are buying it at the artificially inflated price! Then when the price stabilizes, you have a fat stack of cash that took less effort to get because of the update. Sounds pretty damn "rewarding" to me.

Your so wrong in so many ways.

1) Thinking outside of box? Ivies are exp only, Stealing creation is xp only (i like this minigame though), and now Artisan workshop is xp only.

 

The little rewards that's not xp related are cosmetic.

 

 

2) I am not a merchant, and many other players aren't merchants. We play Runescape for the game updates, not the market. And i don't want money, i want a useful item (hint: could be reward from artisan workshop).

 

3) The minigame is mostly "good" for players who are not 99 Smithing. There is only Cosmetic and Ceremonial swords, and the last mentioned sounds like crap.

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i have nothing against the inevitable xp creep - for example herblore habitat

 

i have a problem with updates that introduce no gameplay value and only increase xp rates - for example choking ivy

 

i have a problem with updates that introduce potential gameplay value but are defunct from inception - for example charm sprite hunting

 

I have a problem with you ignoring all use of punctuation, please use it in the future.

 

The point is that there's no value here. Worthwhile content requires enough of an incentive for people to use the content, be that pure fun (a la Castlewars) or rewards for other parts of the game, and also a positive contribution to the game's experience in general. This has none of the former and very little of the latter.

~ W ~

 

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so wats the fastest way to get respect? for 99smith :P

 

Cannonballs all the way of course.

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Those with a little bit of knowledge are more dangerous than those with none.

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Ignore this, I read it wrong. :unsure:

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It could have, but it is next to impossible because it also could have been caused by the flying spaghetti monster, or one of the other infinite number of deity possibilities.

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FAQ's out.

 

Why was this update solely on XP, when making new types of armours at a higher Smithing level would have been more useful for players?

 

The focus on this update was the training. Theres a lot of issues with training smithing that weve tried to tackle, for example:

 

The amount of junk smithing produces.

The dependency on slow and tedious smelting.

The lack of variety.

The difficulty new players have at the start working with bronze (unless they use quests to skip it but new players may not know this).

Higher level smithing doesnt really affect how good you are at smithing, but just gives you better choice over which rates of experience to cost you can choose.

 

Say we didnt at least partly deal with these issues now, if rewards come out that made high level smithing more worthwhile, some of these issues would be magnified. For example, the price of bar prices would rise a lot higher as not only would high level smiths be paying people for their time to smith ore, they would also be paying for peoples time to smelt ore. Further; far more junk would enter the market which could outweigh the demand of alchers and force people to alch their own goods bringing more GPs into the economy.

 

We certainly dont consider the cannons or the ceremonial swords as rewards for training smithing, but rather they are incentives to train in the workshop rather than at traditional anvils. Personally, I hope we do bring in incentives to train smithing at the higher levels. I think theres plenty we can do with the skill, there are lots of good ideas in the forums and within the team. However, Id like to point out that we are NOT PROMISING this update.

 

 

Why are the ceremonial sword costs so high? The ores required to make one bar is extortionate!

 

The cost is high, however, you should need far fewer ingots per hour compared to any other activity. So for example if you made 40 iron ceremonial swords an hour getting an average of 105% XP (the quickest guy in the office could make roughly 50 per hour at around this percentage). You would be getting around 113k per hour and it will cost 3,000 iron ores. Normal iron plate smithing would offer around about 91k XP and use about 3600 iron bars. You would then have some iron plates to sell or alch, but this should still see iron ceremonial swords being better value. So while these prices may seem high at a glance, they are competitive.

 

 

Why is perfecting a ceremonial sword so hard at the initial levels of access to them? It's not worth making them at that level.

 

We wanted to build in some advantage with having higher smithing levels whilst training, as generally in smithing price determines what you train. However, this is something I will be monitoring it could be that we have been overly harsh on the lower level ceremonial sword makers.

 

 

Why does getting respect take so long?

 

Respect wasnt designed to be a reason for training, but rather is built to tempt people away from normal anvils. So its not meant to be a speedy process. The amount of respect you earn is roughly 1 respect for every 10,000 XP earned. However, fixing pipes and killing ancestors do provide a little boost to your respect.

 

 

Can we own multiple "blinged" cannons? A lot of players like to own 2 for a space holder, so the pieces aren't lost around their banks.

 

Simply bring in the pieces to make 2 normal cannons and Elof should change them all for you.

 

So they are NOT PROMISING that anything will actually come of this, but this update was in preparation for maybe some day making smithing worthwhile if they get around to it. Never mind that the update is garbage, because some guy who can't do math thinks it's competitive.

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he also says that smithers alching their own platebodies brings more gp into the economy than had they sold it to alchers :D

Yeah, I noticed that too. God damnit Jagex, HIRE AN ECONOMIST. We've only been saying this for like 5 years now.

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I swear i saw in BTS that cannons would get a longer decay time and hold more cannonballs..guess they changed it or i dreamt it.

Nah, I was there when it came out and it didn't say anything vaguely interesting to me, which that would have been.

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Personally I have no idea how you actually manage to get 4900 platebodies done in an hour (as far as i can tell that figure doesn't include banking) and therefore 3600 sounds much more reasonable. That would make the workshop faster xp, and with a nice little cosmetic reward too.

 

Where's the problem? Sure smithing will need some sort of high reward one day, but it would be nice to get the combat triangle fully balanced before more melee updates.

 

Or is it balanced? I don't know, but it used to be a really common complaint.

I'm not an efficienado.

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Steelceremonialswordii.png

 

Steel ceremonial sword, design II. (from the wiki)

 

Just htought you guys might want to see this if you haven't already, looks pretty beast.

 

Oh, and so does the royale cannon from side on:

 

185px-Royale_cannon.png

 

Cool, innit? :)

ceremonial sword looks cool. The cannon sucks balls. Omg how ugly cannon that is lol. Standard cannon>All other cannons. Oh wait i haven't seen the other cannon version, so i will wait with saying for sure.

 

But royal canno---------lol how ugly. Jagex and their fetish for gold colour (PoH, Trim armour, etc).

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Personally I have no idea how you actually manage to get 4900 platebodies done in an hour (as far as i can tell that figure doesn't include banking) and therefore 3600 sounds much more reasonable. That would make the workshop faster xp, and with a nice little cosmetic reward too.

 

Where's the problem? Sure smithing will need some sort of high reward one day, but it would be nice to get the combat triangle fully balanced before more melee updates.

 

Or is it balanced? I don't know, but it used to be a really common complaint.

4900 platebodies an hour would be 1.5m xp an hour

3600 platebodies an hour would be 1.1m xp an hour

 

somewhere along the line, you did some bad math

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I think the figure you're looking for is 4900 bars? I sounds a lot more realistic to me.

 

EDIT:

"Why are the ceremonial sword costs so high? The ores required to make one bar is extortionate!”

 

The cost is high, however, you should need far fewer ingots per hour compared to any other activity. So for example if you made 40 iron ceremonial swords an hour getting an average of 105% XP (the quickest guy in the office could make roughly 50 per hour at around this percentage). You would be getting around 113k per hour and it will cost 3,000 iron ores. Normal iron plate smithing would offer around about 91k XP and use about 3600 iron bars. You would then have some iron plates to sell or alch, but this should still see iron ceremonial swords being better value. So while these prices may seem high at a glance, they are competitive.

Do they not realise not everyone training smithing is "the quickest guy in the office"?

Also, I'd like to know the smithing level of said guy to figure out why on earth he'd be making iron ceremonial swords (and turning such a ludicrous XP rate)

 

EDIT again : Do people above 70 smithing still train on iron plates?

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Guest TrixStar

I've done over 50 swords since buying the ceremonial V plans and haven't seen it yet..wtf am i missing?

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The focus on this update was the training. Theres a lot of issues with training smithing that weve tried to tackle, for example:

 

The amount of junk smithing produces.

 

Junk? Thanks to Summoning, Iron platebodies, Steel platebodies, various bars and ores all now have additional uses within the game environment. Most of the material over steel is worth making an alching or selling to alchers.

 

Somehow I don't envision some huge pile of excess smithing junk sitting in a wastesite ...

 

:unsure:

 

The dependency on slow and tedious smelting.

 

As compared to what, exactly? Slow and tedious manufacturing of useless material? :rolleyes:

 

We certainly dont consider the cannons or the ceremonial swords as rewards for training smithing, but rather they are incentives to train in the workshop rather than at traditional anvils. Personally, I hope we do bring in incentives to train smithing at the higher levels. I think theres plenty we can do with the skill, there are lots of good ideas in the forums and within the team. However, Id like to point out that we are NOT PROMISING this update.

 

Ok so when I read this, it reads to me as an acknowledgement that:

(a) They DO now realize that they [bleep]ed this up; and

(b) They've no actual intention of doing ANYTHING about it.

 

Am I reading that wrong?

 

:unsure:

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