Account Hijacking & Jagex� Item Return Policy

[Stev]

people get hacked everyday but this is 1,000 santa hats.. i don't care who you are, you should be given your items back. i don't even play rs anymore and i think i would commit suicide over this..to me it IS 100,000 dollars.

 

No, it's exactly 0 dollars.

It's only $100, 000 if you were planning on selling. However, I believe there's old evidence of Chessy using RWT... So she very well might have.

 

I agree with not returning the items. Chessy has put no more effort into the game as most others. She deserves no special treatment. If they gave her special treatment, I would also expect the same. We both pay the same for membership and both work just as hard on her accounts.

[Normalize]

I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY CHESSY018 LOST IT ALL :)

 

thats what you get for being a greedy hoarder of rares omg im so happy, best rs news since the reintroduction of the wildy and free trade omg she desrves it, justice is sweet

[meili]

Meh, I can't believe so many people here actually support the idea of Jagex not returning items for bugs, hacking, cracking and such. Just because customer support has sucked doesn't mean it has to suck forever.

 

You do know that even in other free games the game customer service does actually help and sometimes returns items if they can?

 

I guess RS players like the bad customer support.

[DarkDude]

Meh, I can't believe so many people here actually support the idea of Jagex not returning items for bugs, hacking, cracking and such. Just because customer support has sucked doesn't mean it has to suck forever.

 

You do know that even in other free games the game customer service does actually help and sometimes returns items if they can?

 

I guess RS players like the bad customer support.

 

RuneScape's economy is entirely different to other MMOs. Almost every single item in game has a value to it. If someone gets hacked and loses a party hat which is sold on the GE to an innocent player you can't then produce another party hat to give it back to the person that got hacked. If you suggest that every item is tracked down and "returned" so nothing is duplicated then that would take a lot of work to do, probably well over an hour per account. If you think Jagex have enough time to do that then you are entirely mistaken. No company could spend that long doing that with the number of players RuneScape has.

 

I agree that if items are lost to a bug (and completely taken out of the game because of it) then I see no reason why it shouldn't be given back. But for hacking etc, nope.

[dargonhuman]

I don't have time to read through this entire thread, but the one thing that really stands out for me regarding this particular policy and why it can never be changed is the massive potential for abuse.

Players A and B are best friends in real life but want to get ahead fairly quickly in rs. Player A has a couple high-value items in his bank, say some party hats, a santa and a halloween mask. He and Player B hatch a plan to duplicate those items legally by having Player B "hack" Player A's account (in reality, Player A gave his account info to Player B). Player B has a dummy account to transfer the rares to, then Player A waits a reasonable amount of time, say a few days, then submits a report to Jagex that his account was hacked and he lost his rares in an attempt to get extra rares to sell.

Now, with Jagex's current policy, the dummy account gets banned, Player A loses his rares as he rightfully should, and all is well in RS. On the other hand, if the two players were crafty enough to make the "hack" look real, and JAgex were to return Player A's lost items, then there would be nothing stopping Player B from selling the "stolen" items on the GE and transferring the gold to his main through "legit" junk trades in the days Player A waited to make his report. Now, all Player B has to do is give Player A the gold from his main and Player A can buy back his "stolen" rares. Slam, bam, thank you mods, Player A has double the amount of rares in his bank with little actual effort.

Having a blanket policy that no one gets stolen items back, no exceptions, is the best and really only way to completely prevent that kind of abuse of policy from happening. And no, I didn't really give that scenario much thought, I just kind of made it up as I wrote it. If I can pull that off the top of my head, imagine what a couple people could come up with if they had days or weeks to work out a real plan.

[meili]

RuneScape's economy is entirely different to other MMOs. Almost every single item in game has a value to it.

 

It's also like that in other games. Not sure what you mean...

 

 

I agree that if items are lost to a bug (and completely taken out of the game because of it) then I see no reason why it shouldn't be given back. But for hacking etc, nope.

 

If someone gets hacked and loses a party hat which is sold on the GE to an innocent player you can't then produce another party hat to give it back to the person that got hacked.

 

If it was sold then they can get their RS gold back or whatever they traded for it.

Slam, bam, thank you mods, Player A has double the amount of rares in his bank with little actual effort.

 

You would have to be stupid to create items. Jagex is not stupid.

 

If you suggest that every item is tracked down and "returned" so nothing is duplicated then that would take a lot of work to do, probably well over an hour per account. If you think Jagex have enough time to do that then you are entirely mistaken. No company could spend that long doing that with the number of players RuneScape has.

 

It wouldn't be easy but if other games can do it, so can Jagex. RS is around $80 a year to play ($7 a month, if I am correct), they can take 15 minutes of time to help you out, you know! It's not that hard.

 

Now, in other games they do not take 1 hour to help you. They do whatever they can in a small amount of time. Sometimes people get their stuff back, sometimes they don't. Notice that in this particular case, Jagex could actually give back some (not all) of the items. So its obviously not impossible as many here would lead you believe.

 

Jagex doesn't even try - and so many TipIters like it that way.

 

It's mindboggling to me.

[DarkDude]

It's also like that in other games. Not sure what you mean...

 

WoW for example has 99% of the items are untradable, or one use only (once used can't be traded again) and thus have no worth once they've done that. So being able to get those items back has no huge effect on the economy as the only way to get rid of the items off an account is to remove them from the game.

 

If it was sold then they can get their RS gold back or whatever they traded for it.

 

How is that fair to the innocent person who is very happy with their new item? How would they do it? What if it was for example a dragonfire shield and you wanted to take it away when they were fighting dragons? What if this player then sells it on before it's had a chance to be given back to the original owner at an updated price?

 

You would have to be stupid to create items. Jagex is not stupid.

Hence why it's not been done.

 

It wouldn't be easy but if other games can do it, so can Jagex. RS is around $80 a year to play ($7 a month, if I am correct), they can take 15 minutes of time to help you out, you know! It's not that hard.

 

Now, in other games they do not take 1 hour to help you. They do whatever they can in a small amount of time. Sometimes people get their stuff back, sometimes they don't. Notice that in this particular case, Jagex could actually give back some (not all) of the items. So its obviously not impossible as many here would lead you believe.

 

So inconsistency in what Jagex should do what be fairer than a blanket statement of saying no, we don't do this? How does that work? You're almost underestimating the amount of work that needs to be put in to do this. First they need to check to be 100% sure that it's not just someone's friend who is "hacking" them to try and gain some advantage by doing so. Also the wealth in most cases would be spread very very quickly, so would be next to impossible to track down.

[Junkmutt]

I am on the side that says that the hacked should get some kind of compensation for their lost items. However, I do not see how Jagex could make a fair, cheat-free system to accomplish this. Although, Jagex could attempt to find the person who hacked and contact the local authorities. I am pretty sure hacking in illegal irl, nothing like a visit from the police and a computer search to scare the [cabbage] out of some 15 year old and make them never want to do it again.

 

Edit: Woo 300 posts

[Stev]

people get hacked everyday but this is 1,000 santa hats.. i don't care who you are, you should be given your items back. i don't even play rs anymore and i think i would commit suicide over this..to me it IS 100,000 dollars.

It's only worth that much IRL money if you planned to sell it.

 

Now also, she put no more effort into her account then any of us so what would allow her special treatment. Who care how much she lost... A level 100 put the same amount of effort into getting their first set of Bandos and GS as she did... So if they get hacked (Which I believe is always the player's fault), should they be given their things back? No.

[meili]

So inconsistency in what Jagex should do what be fairer than a blanket statement of saying no, we don't do this?

 

Of course. Who cares about 100% consistency. Again, this is how it is done in other games. If they can't find it or its gone or destroyed, then that's that. At least you got your chance to get itgems back. As it is you get nothing, ever, even when it's dead simple to help.

 

How does that work?

 

They just check the logs.

 

You're almost underestimating the amount of work that needs to be put in to do this. First they need to check to be 100% sure that it's not just someone's friend who is "hacking" them to try and gain some advantage by doing so. Also the wealth in most cases would be spread very very quickly, so would be next to impossible to track down.

 

This is the last time I will repeat this:

 

If other games can do it, so can Jagex. Period.

 

If you think it's impossible, that's your opinion. They could find Chessy's (or whatever the name is) items which clearly shows they can, in fact, track items. That's a fact and it supports my argument that it is quite possible for Jagex to help their players.

 

Whether it is worth it or not to help players I guess is the question here. I feel it is worth it. Other people feel it is not worth it for Jagex to spend their time tracking down items.

[DarkDude]

I imagine it's impossible to track items across the GE. Traded person to person yes, not across the GE.

 

Also, can you give me some examples of these other games that apparently do this? I'd love to see them, especially as they are of course just as complex as RuneScape and as economy focused so that this can be directly compared.

 

Jagex are giving dungeoneering binds back when they're lost, which is fair enough as that's almost like a completely separate game. With the items being untradable and thus not having a value there's no harm done in giving them back unlike with giving "real" items back.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

Jagex are giving dungeoneering binds back when they're lost, which is fair enough as that's almost like a completely separate game. With the items being untradable and thus not having a value there's no harm done in giving them back unlike with giving "real" items back.

 

I wasn't aware of this. In fact, I was told the opposite, that they weren't giving back Dungeoneering items. Can you confirm this(perhaps a link to some RSOF thread)? If this is indeed true, kudos to them, a much appreciated step. =D>

[DarkDude]

I don't have a link at hand, I saw it mentioned in a thread here the other day but they did not post a source. I'm sure it's around somewhere and I do know that they are doing it after having heard from others.

[lordkafei]

So inconsistency in what Jagex should do what be fairer than a blanket statement of saying no, we don't do this?

 

Of course. Who cares about 100% consistency. Again, this is how it is done in other games. If they can't find it or its gone or destroyed, then that's that. At least you got your chance to get itgems back. As it is you get nothing, ever, even when it's dead simple to help.

 

Since I birthed this thread, Ill chime in.

 

I realize that there probably can never be a 100% foolproof method of returning items lost to hacking.

 

My point was meant to be that when Jagex has the needed information right in front of them where items went and can fix it without introducing new wealth into the game, they should do so. It doesnt matter if it was 1000 Santa hats or 1000 firelighters.

 

Jagex current policy of 100% non-return of items in these cases puts them in a dubious position. Apocryphally, they are assumed to want the removal of as many of the old style rares from the game as possible. Jagex current policy puts them in a position where it is advantageous for accounts with rares to be misappropriated - then they can swoop in and remove the rares in a way they could never do if the account hadnt been hijacked in the first place.

 

IMO, its unethical and sickening.

[Orpheus]

Because Terms of Agreement prevail over the law, considering that it is in fact a game, regardless of real-life value of these items.

Terms of Agreement are thrown out in a court case, as they're generally stacked heavily in their favor making things unfair. Case in point, consider the case of the iphone jailbreak case. Basically, Apple's Terms of Use were thrown out regarding jailbreaking.

[Assume Nothing]

These arguments are flying all over the place. Could people please establish the difference between hacking and account sharing, and if policy proposed refers to items lost to 'hacking' compared to items lost to 'glitches/bugs' (depending on the nature of the bug)?

[jasignhagj]

ToS laws aside, accounts and items still have NO value in real life. Now if jagex was to run a cash shop and put value to GP, she could possibly sue for the return of her items.

 

Either way, she's the idiot for not protecting something that could have bought her a slightly used lambo.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Because Terms of Agreement prevail over the law, considering that it is in fact a game, regardless of real-life value of these items.

Terms of Agreement are thrown out in a court case, as they're generally stacked heavily in their favor making things unfair. Case in point, consider the case of the iphone jailbreak case. Basically, Apple's Terms of Use were thrown out regarding jailbreaking.

 

They're thrown out only for valid reasoning. Hiding behind copyright law to prevent people from innovating on a product is a good reason to throw out those terms.

 

Naturally this has nothing to do with online video games. Their ToS is more ironclad than not, and I can't recall a court case in which property rights were awarded to a user over pixels.

[Jet]

Jagex doesn't care about the players as individuals, but as the mass. If they please the mass then the few individual people that get screwed are not their problem.

 

Most games you pay for have a customer service number at least, just to back my point up.

 

The thing that annoys me the most, bans that last for over 5 years. like seriously? This isn't real life, its like a jail sentence...

[Alphanos]

ToS laws aside, accounts and items still have NO value in real life. Now if jagex was to run a cash shop and put value to GP, she could possibly sue for the return of her items.

 

Either way, she's the idiot for not protecting something that could have bought her a slightly used lambo.

 

In some ways, the value of Runescape items can be compared to that of real-life contraband, such as illegal drugs. It's against the rules (laws) to trade such items, and if the authorities confiscate those items there's nothing you can do. However, it would be foolish to say that the items "have no value". Obviously they do, or else there would be no demand for a black market trading such things.

 

Again, I am against RWT, but I think it's ludicrous that so many people are saying "Oh well, it's just a game, those pixels she spent thousands of hours acquiring have no value anyway" :rolleyes:.

[jasignhagj]

My bad, I should have said legal value.

[Yoko Kurama]

DarkDude98 wrote:

 

Jagex are giving dungeoneering binds back when they're lost, which is fair enough as that's almost like a completely separate game. With the items being untradable and thus not having a value there's no harm done in giving them back unlike with giving "real" items back.

 

As I suspected, this was too good to be true. Half a dozen server crashes in the past few days with plenty of people having lost valuable binds. No response from Jagex. Unless I am mistaken, or hopefully someone can provide new confirmation, I am afraid this isn't the case. :pray:

 

Edit: This is now confirmed to be totally false. A J-Mod has confirmed that they will NOT return binds but they assure us that server crashes will be resolved. Pfft, as if it matters if people won't get their binds back. Simply pathetic. Way to go Jagex. Meanwhile, elsewhere, they are commemorating the 1 year anniversary of Dungeoneering by encouraging players to make guides. What better way to commemorate the release of a skill by neglecting long time and ke

[Thai_tong]

The hacker should pay her 100k $

 

Did she have a bank pin? If not then WTF and lol.

[GuidesForScapers]

A VPN is enough to throw off Jagex and their screams of "HEY THATS AN OFFENSE OF THE LAW". As proven by the hijackers of thousands of accounts that were stolen via PowerBot.

 

Might as well be behind 7 proxies, probably do the trick..

 

Been banned for botting? Here is your account back for a small fee. Had your items stolen? [bleep] off, or give us a fiver...