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Limewire sued for $75 Trillion


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#21
No_M0re
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Don't bother wasting energy Jaffy. Bottom line is: they're not willing to pay for music if they can get away with not paying for it. This has nothing to do with morals, or whether something is technically theft or not. If these usually self-described "music lovers" want to drown in their own hypocrisy by stealing money that rightfully belongs to the bands who make the music, and the record companies who invest in those bands, then let them.

They probably won't change their ways until a stick comes along to threaten them, no matter how much you tear their arguments apart, but the unpoliced nature of the Internet makes this somewhat difficult.

The difference between plagiarism and music piracy is simple: Plagiarism gets you kicked out of uni with no chance of earning a degree thereafter. Music piracy might get you a slap on the wrist from your ISP.


No no no.

Like I said my mate actually works in the music industry and another in a band. They don't care. I don't care. I still give around 600-800pounds to bands by going to gigs/festivals. As well as the dumb ammount of moeny I spend seeing DJs.

You might want to believe whatever you want, end of the day I've never owned more than 30 albums. That's THREE HUNDRED pounds. WTF?? For 30 albums. No. I simply can't afford that, I listen to at least 20 - 30 albums a lot in one month. That means if I buy it I can;t eat. As it is the music industry is outdated. They need to change and the sooner they realise the better.

Also yeah I couldn't give a crap if crappy singers that can't give a good live performance and lose millions on this. They suck, they throw out the same junk all the time.

Don't call me a "music lover" like that. Without knowing you I'm still fairly sure in saying I probably love it more than you. I literally listen to music or paly it all the time, every fri and sat I go clubbing. Everytime any decent DJ/Bands on somewhere near I'll go in the week.

Bottom line is, I wouldn't have listened to half the bands I do, therefore nor would my friends, therefore we'd have less reason to go to a festival if they were playing, therefoooore they lose money. Simples.

I give more to artists by pirating than I would if I didn't.

Oh and once again, I've actually chatted to fairly famous bands/ my friend produces them and kows about the "buissness" side and my friends in a soon to probably succesful band. They don't care.

#22
No_M0re
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Don't bother wasting energy Jaffy. Bottom line is: they're not willing to pay for music if they can get away with not paying for it. This has nothing to do with morals, or whether something is technically theft or not. If these usually self-described "music lovers" want to drown in their own hypocrisy by stealing money that rightfully belongs to the bands who make the music, and the record companies who invest in those bands, then let them.

They probably won't change their ways until a stick comes along to threaten them, no matter how much you tear their arguments apart, but the unpoliced nature of the Internet makes this somewhat difficult.

You're right, but that's okay. ;)
It's giving me some amusement while I work on my thesis, and I don't mind playing with trolls at times. Must say I appreciate your wording though. :D


At above post.

Tl;dr version:

Proof pl0x?
Only saying "I am right" proves you're not, and if you need to know why it is theft, please refer to this post.

"They suck" is not an argument. --> if it were: "You suck, therefore I am right. End of discussion" ? ;)

Yes, taking something without paying for it is stealing. That so hard to comprehend? xD


Whatever man I could forever.

It's not stealing in any way shape or form.

Just because certain laws made up by random people say so doesn't make it so.

Tell me this, did they lsoe any money because of it? did they lose anything becasue of it?

Intelectual property means nothing to me and most people, it's too abstract. If you look at in in real terms I have never stolen from an artist, because they lost nothing because of it.

Oops, sorry for double post :ohnoes:

Don't worry about TL;Dr. I'll read everything you say :thumbup:

#23
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I feel like this is really old news. Like...I read it months ago. And the fact that Limewire doesn't even exist anymore kind of suggests that this whole thread is a moot point. Bottom line? Music industry is trying to take over the world by putting it in an economic stranglehold using faulty lawyer tactics.

I refuse to have the stereotypical "discussion" that this thread theme ALWAYS results in.
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#24
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Whatever man I could forever.

It's not stealing in any way shape or form.

Just because certain laws made up by random people say so doesn't make it so.

Tell me this, did they lsoe any money because of it? did they lose anything becasue of it?

Intelectual property means nothing to me and most people, it's too abstract. If you look at in in real terms I have never stolen from an artist, because they lost nothing because of it.

Oops, sorry for double post :ohnoes:

Don't worry about TL;Dr. I'll read everything you say :thumbup:

I'm not a man, thank you.
Again, this is the third time I'm asking you to back up your flawed statements with any proof. You can claim that you and other (non-intellectual?) people don't care about "intellectual property", but a thief wouldn't care that he stole someone else's money either, would they? You have stolen from artists, and they did lose because of it. Why do you think CD and DVD sales went down since the piracy business started blooming?


Now I have shown you actual proof that according to law, copying other people's material ís stealing. You have claimed many things which I believe to be utter non-sense. If you fail to provide proof there is no reason to take anything you say seriously as such.
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#25
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Plagiarizing and copying music in this context don't mean the same, Jaffy. Plagiairism laws exist so people don't make a profit or claim ownership of other people's ideas. With piracy, none of these apply.
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#26
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Whatever man I could forever.

It's not stealing in any way shape or form.

Just because certain laws made up by random people say so doesn't make it so.

Tell me this, did they lsoe any money because of it? did they lose anything becasue of it?

Intelectual property means nothing to me and most people, it's too abstract. If you look at in in real terms I have never stolen from an artist, because they lost nothing because of it.

Oops, sorry for double post :ohnoes:

Don't worry about TL;Dr. I'll read everything you say :thumbup:

I'm not a man, thank you.
Again, this is the third time I'm asking you to back up your flawed statements with any proof. You can claim that you (and other non-intellectual people?) don't care "intellectual property", but a thief wouldn't care that he stole someone else's money either, would they? You have stolen from artists, and they did lose because of it.

Now I have shown you actual proof that according to law, copying other people's material ís stealing. You have claimed many things which I believe are utter non-sense. If you fail to provide proof there is no reason to take anything you say seriously as such.


TL;DR :P

Nah jokes, I call everyone man. You've never had someone say that to you before? That's like when the police tell you off for saying mate, 'im not your mate'. IT's just a way people talk it's not the actual original meaning of the word.. whatever man ;)

Nah but come on, seriously I don't know how to find proof?

I know it's going in circles but seriously point out the flaw.

Before I pirated I bought 1 album, if that, a year. I also didn't go to many festivals becasue I din't know many artists.

Now I download something that previously I would not have thought of buying.

Therefore if I hadn't downloaded they still wouldn't have made money from me.

But I go to festivals to see the bands I like.

So surely they lose nothing.

Some even gain.

Tell me what part of that's wrong

And yeah some people would have, because of priacy, paid less to the music industry. But remember a lot of people listen to music purely on youtube or spotify now aswell.

And it's a sign that the media is once again out dated.

#27
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Plagiarizing and copying music in this context don't mean the same, Jaffy. Plagiairism laws exist so people don't make a profit or claim ownership of other people's ideas. With piracy, none of these apply.

They aren't entirely the same, that's true. However, here are plenty of sites that do offer other people's music, tv shows and whatnot in return for payment. To avoid plagiarism you can credit a source a specific way, or in certain cases, buy the material. To avoid copyright infrigmentation you buy the music for your own personal use, or the right to play it (for example shops have to pay the owners of music to be allowed to play it when they are opened). The reason behind the rule may be slightly different, but that doesn't mean it is entirely different. In both cases the material belongs to someone else, and you have to pay for the right to play it, quote it, or own it in a sense.

You may not take away the original, but the owners have the right to claim a fee for your using it in both cases.


At No_M0re,
I don't mind you calling people "man", it just makes me feel odd since plenty of people seem to think there are no women on the internet. xD
Anyhow, I can assume you hereby admit to randomly sharing your opinion with made-up prices for songs and whatnot?
If your information is based on fact, finding credible sources isn't that hard, so for lack off it is safe to say you were not basing your claims on facts, but simply making things up?

You claim to have read every word I said, yet you repeat the same futile questions while I have already provided a proper answer, and you repeat flawed statements without any arguments or even hint at evidence to back them up. Don't go round in circles now, go on and show us that support for your claims.
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#28
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Limewire's reaction:

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75 Trillion? Do people even learn to take math/economy courses anymore?

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#29
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And it's a sign that the media is once again out dated.

I disagree. I think the industry is outdated but I think that's because of the musicians' inability to organise themselves against the record companies and barter for a better deal. There are music producers locked up in studios up and down the country who will only receive maybe £100 for each piece of work they do, or pitiful royalties which aren't worth taking because most of the stuff they write won't make make enough profit for them to earn more than the £100 offered.

Now, if we take NMW, if they spend more than about 16 hours working on a piece, they're earning lower than the minimum wage. Also added to that is the fact that if a piece they wrote does become massively profitable, they won't earn a penny more than £100 because they already signed the rights off to the company.

I agree there is a level of exploitation in the music industry, but frankly, trade unions are there for a reason, and so long as artists at the top "don't care" as you say, there will never be an organised effort to resolve this issue. Far from glorifying 'famous bands' for their apathy, you should be slamming them for not supporting those less fortunate than they are, whilst they bask in the sunshine.

This, however, is a dispute between musicians and record companies. OK, you're exceptional in that you do pay money to hear music live, but the majority of people are happy to download files for free while chilling on Facebook and not think twice of it, and you know it. How does the above dispute mitigate the fact they have stolen that music, insofar that they have gained something that isn't theirs to own without permission and without paying for it?

#30
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Down with the man. F*** the police.

#31
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I like how people are implying it's even possible for Limewire to pay that much... it literally makes me laugh, there's no chance in hell of it happening :P


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#32
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I buy more CDs than anyone else my age I know... and probably download more too.

No one is going to take the side of the music industry when they throw around ridiculous and antagonistic lawsuits like this.
People are simply too used to being able to pirate now. The music industry needs to adapt, not us. There's no way they will win this... people will find a way to share music no matter what the laws are.

I'm not saying it's right (and this is why I choose to support certain bands by buying CDs, going to concerts, buying shirts, etc.), but there is just too much music out there for individuals to afford... and music is not something I wanted to have limited access to because of financial reasons.

Or even practical reasons: CDs and large, clunky, and low quality... Takes forever to rip to computer, play in a CD player, etc. compared to how long it takes to click play on a computer.
Legal downloading is currently just as expensive, and usually limited in selection.

#33
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Nice trolling. A random image would suggest you know you're wrong though.
This link right here might show you how copying without taking things away is theft too.
I even got the English version for you, but I'm guessing you have nothing to say that can discredit or counter what it says anyway. ;)

Trolling? I assure you. madam, that my laziness is not trolling. Also that page isn't loading for me.

Oh please, I have a counterpoint or a way of discrediting anything on the opposite viewpoint of what my stance is as I wouldn't chose that viewpoint otherwise.

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#34
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Lol...75trillion dollars? 5 bucks to the first person who posts a dr.evil pic in this thread.

I mean, c'mon. The music isn't technically getting stolen, and sound shouldn't have a price tag on it. What's next? "I think you may pirate/'steal' music sir, I'm suing you for 75 bajillion fofillion...shabadabadu...trillion...yen!'
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#35
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No one is going to take the side of the music industry when they throw around ridiculous and antagonistic lawsuits like this.
People are simply too used to being able to pirate now. The music industry needs to adapt, not us. There's no way they will win this... people will find a way to share music no matter what the laws are.

I'm not saying it's right (and this is why I choose to support certain bands by buying CDs, going to concerts, buying shirts, etc.), but there is just too much music out there for individuals to afford... and music is not something I wanted to have limited access to because of financial reasons.

Pretty much sums it up for me as well. I used to buy CDs all the time but my circumstances have changed (poor student now) so I don't have the disposable money I did when I was still at school and the money I do have, I'd rather spend on tickets to see the band live than on a, more often than not, overpriced CD which I could download for free.
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#36
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Trolling? I assure you. madam, that my laziness is not trolling. Also that page isn't loading for me.

Oh please, I have a counterpoint or a way of discrediting anything on the opposite viewpoint of what my stance is as I wouldn't chose that viewpoint otherwise.

In that case I apologize, guess I'm a tad too accustomed to trolling in a specific section of the rs forums.
Anyhow, the link should work for you, as it works for me just fine. Here is a direct link to the pdf, if that helps.

Must say I am intregued how you wish to discredit common university policy and laws though. xD
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#37
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Trolling? I assure you. madam, that my laziness is not trolling. Also that page isn't loading for me.

Oh please, I have a counterpoint or a way of discrediting anything on the opposite viewpoint of what my stance is as I wouldn't chose that viewpoint otherwise.

In that case I apologize, guess I'm a tad too accustomed to trolling in a specific section of the rs forums.
Anyhow, the link should work for you, as it works for me just fine. Here is a direct link to the pfd, if that helps.

Must say I am intregued how you wish to discredit common university policy and laws though. xD

The whole PDF thing is an issue with my [cabbage]ty net right now.

They're under no legal obligation to police for the RIAA/MPAA/whoever the [bleep] it is for them without a court order. All it does is protect a dying industry whose profit have been steadily declining whilst artist profits have been rising. People who pirate music also spend more money on it on average. I could go on, but I'm about to fall asleep here.

For future reference, I don't troll communities I have some connection with, such as this one.

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#38
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That is just ridiculous. Limewire isn't directly responsible for what their users decide to share.


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#39
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75 trillion? Lol.

Not going to get into this debate though. All I'm going to say is agree or diasagree with piracy it still isn't theft, legally speaking. They are different things. Anyone who can't see that shouldn't be arguing for or against it.

#40
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... I have nothing else to add to this discussion, haha. I pirate things because I am lazy and have time/quota to kill. If I didn't pirate things, I wouldn't buy things, either. Well, that's a lie, I probably would buy more things, but what the hell, right?
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