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Limewire sued for $75 Trillion


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#61
Riku3220
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What I don't get about pirates is the huge sense of entitlement that they have. So you're a college student and can't afford the prices of music/movies/games. What part of you makes you think that you deserve it for free?
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#62
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Like what I do, and what my friends do. I test out the product before buying it, so I can see if I really want it or not.


This. iTune's song preview does next to nothing as far as giving me an idea whether or not I want to buy the song.

It really pisses me the [bleep] off when I buy a song off iTunes and it turns out to be utter [cabbage].

What part of you makes you think that you deserve it for free?


STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!
SWAG

Mayn U wanna be like me but U can't be me cuz U ain't got ma swagga on.

#63
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And to think, 3 million people could all share one cd and the record companies would be pissed off about the 2.9million who didn't buy the cd. Record companies are hippocrits, putting a price tag on something that's theoretically free...
[img]<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/FoursideKing.jpg" border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>[/img]

#64
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And to think, 3 million people could all share one cd and the record companies would be pissed off about the 2.9million who didn't buy the cd. Record companies are hippocrits, putting a price tag on something that's theoretically free...

The 2,999,999 people that listened to it did just that. They don't each get the CD for their own personal use. If any of those 2,999,999 people wanted to listen to it again on their own time then they'd have to buy the CD themselves.
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#65
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The 2.9million people though didn't actually buy the cd, but got to listen to it for free. In a way, they should then be charged by the record companies, because they got to hear it without actually buying it off them.
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#66
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STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!

:lol:


I'm lovin' all the Dr. Evil jokes.
"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."
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#67
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Lol, @giordano: wait until their second idea, where they try to eliminate youtube by stealing its 'mojo'
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#68
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those fat bastards won't get [cabbage] from Limewire. If they actually asked for a reasonable amount, then yes, but this makes them look like idiots. I'm just imagining a group of guys discussing this, when one guy stands up saying, "Let's go for 75 trillion guys! Who dares me?"

#69
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BUT THE MONEY IS FOR THE UNDER APPRECIATED WRITER IF THEY DON'T GET PAID WHO WILL MAKE THINGS YOU ENJOY??????????????!?!?!?!?!!?

WE'RE DOING IT FOR THEM!!!

#70
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those fat bastards won't get [cabbage] from Limewire. If they actually asked for a reasonable amount, then yes, but this makes them look like idiots. I'm just imagining a group of guys discussing this, when one guy stands up saying, "Let's go for 75 trillion guys! Who dares me?"

Guy at the other end of the table: "Do it, you won't!"

#71
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I also like how the music industry attributes the decline in music sales to piracy, and not the fact that they try to peddle [cabbage] like Kedollarsignsha to the public and expect them to buy it.

#72
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Sucks to be Limewire. Even with all that debt, having to settle even for the top pennies on the dollar is still
a lot of money.

#73
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At No_M0re,
I don't mind you calling people "man", it just makes me feel odd since plenty of people seem to think there are no women on the internet. xD
Anyhow, I can assume you hereby admit to randomly sharing your opinion with made-up prices for songs and whatnot?
If your information is based on fact, finding credible sources isn't that hard, so for lack off it is safe to say you were not basing your claims on facts, but simply making things up?

You claim to have read every word I said, yet you repeat the same futile questions while I have already provided a proper answer, and you repeat flawed statements without any arguments or even hint at evidence to back them up. Don't go round in circles now, go on and show us that support for your claims.


Yeah I assumed you were a girl because of your avatar lol!

I do have a fair knowledge of the costs though because of watching my friends and like i said my best mate is an engineer, pretty good one at that. I'm making things up to an extent, it isn't exactly 5k£ to bring out a song, but it is definately around that with no manager/company involved. I would say, for a good songwriter, including the time spent writing the song. If you don't want to accept that is credible that's fine, I don't mind. It's not really but it's a fiarly good estimate, gives an idea.

Also I did read what you said, but it's all weird legal nonsense. I'm saying for my case how is it stealing? Surely you can see it's not really.

Oh well I guess we both have pretty strong opinions on this :ohnoes:

I don't have any evidence either because once again I'd say it's kind of self explanatory, or is it even possible to get evidence for my last post.

Basically I don't think that I personally am stealing.

^In other words, you are wrong.
Calling that source weird legal nonsense proves that much to be honest.
You're not the only one that claims it isn't stealing, but the simple fact that you're downloading illegally means that you are.
The source shows you perfectly that copying the original without taking it away is stealing, so please stop claiming you're not. xD

Also, what you're saying is not self explanetory, because if it were there wouldn't be room for opposite opinions, now would there? Backing up something that is self explanetory should be very simple.

If getting a song on the market is around 5.000 pounds including all the advertisement and whatnot, why do so many artists lack the money to do so? Getting 5K isn't that hard.. What is that based on? And even if, assuming every song costs 5K to create, do you honestly think that pirating that one song makes up for the creator's costs? Would you go to a concert to listen to one song? How much should an artist invest into a song, and how many songs should they create for you to steal before you pay to go to a gig? If stealing their music is "good", why must they spend so much money on creating music without expecting anything in return?

The fact that you think you know what you're talking about, or the fact that one random friend of yours may have hinted at that? I'm not going to claim I do know how much it costs, because I don't, but you made a statement about it, so I would like to see the validity of that.

Now I'm not sure what kind of person you are, but surely you enjoyed some education with regard to backing up statements, and were taught to think critically? And I'm sorry, but saying"I know a lot about this subject so I am right" simply doesn't cut it, because everyone can say that too, and if they did it still wouldn't be true.

Finally, to clarify part of the "weird legal nonsense" --> You claim copying the original is not stealing, then what is plagiarism again?


And to think, 3 million people could all share one cd and the record companies would be pissed off about the 2.9million who didn't buy the cd. Record companies are hippocrits, putting a price tag on something that's theoretically free...

That too is stealing, so you're suggesting you're as hypocritical as you claim record companies are?
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#74
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At No_M0re,
I don't mind you calling people "man", it just makes me feel odd since plenty of people seem to think there are no women on the internet. xD
Anyhow, I can assume you hereby admit to randomly sharing your opinion with made-up prices for songs and whatnot?
If your information is based on fact, finding credible sources isn't that hard, so for lack off it is safe to say you were not basing your claims on facts, but simply making things up?

You claim to have read every word I said, yet you repeat the same futile questions while I have already provided a proper answer, and you repeat flawed statements without any arguments or even hint at evidence to back them up. Don't go round in circles now, go on and show us that support for your claims.


Yeah I assumed you were a girl because of your avatar lol!

I do have a fair knowledge of the costs though because of watching my friends and like i said my best mate is an engineer, pretty good one at that. I'm making things up to an extent, it isn't exactly 5k£ to bring out a song, but it is definately around that with no manager/company involved. I would say, for a good songwriter, including the time spent writing the song. If you don't want to accept that is credible that's fine, I don't mind. It's not really but it's a fiarly good estimate, gives an idea.

Also I did read what you said, but it's all weird legal nonsense. I'm saying for my case how is it stealing? Surely you can see it's not really.

Oh well I guess we both have pretty strong opinions on this :ohnoes:

I don't have any evidence either because once again I'd say it's kind of self explanatory, or is it even possible to get evidence for my last post.

Basically I don't think that I personally am stealing.

^In other words, you are wrong.
Calling that source weird legal nonsense proves that much to be honest.
You're not the only one that claims it isn't stealing, but the simple fact that you're downloading illegally means that you are.
The source shows you perfectly that copying the original without taking it away is stealing, so please stop claiming you're not. xD

Also, what you're saying is not self explanetory, because if it were there wouldn't be room for opposite opinions, now would there? Backing up something that is self explanetory should be very simple.

If getting a song on the market is around 5.000 pounds including all the advertisement and whatnot, why do so many artists lack the money to do so? Getting 5K isn't that hard.. What is that based on?
The fact that you think you know what you're talking about, or the fact that one random friend of yours may have hinted at that? I'm not going to claim I do know how much it costs, because I don't, but you made a statement about it, so I would like to see the validity of that. And even if, assuming every song costs 5K to create, do you honestly think that pirating that one song makes up for the creator's costs? Would you go to a concert to listen to one song? How much should an artist invest into a song, and how many songs should they create for you to steal before you pay to go to a gig?


Now I'm not sure what kind of person you are, but surely you enjoyed some education with regard to backing up statements, and were taught to think critically? And I'm sorry, but saying"I know a lot about this subject so I am right" simply doesn't cut it, because everyone can say that too, and if they did it still wouldn't be true.

Finally, to clarify part of the "weird legal nonsense" --> You claim copying the original is not stealing, then what is plagiarism again?


And to think, 3 million people could all share one cd and the record companies would be pissed off about the 2.9million who didn't buy the cd. Record companies are hippocrits, putting a price tag on something that's theoretically free...

That too is stealing, so you're suggesting you're as hypocritical as you claim record companies are?


Plagiarism I don't know much about, in my eyes though it should only be ilegal if people profit from it.

What I'm saying is is that in my case noone loses any money. I wouldn't have bought the CDs anyway and infact after hearing about the band I go see them.

I really don't understand how you can argue with that :(

Also I did say, advertising shouldn't be part of the coosts because msot good bands/musicians go viral on youtube now. Therefore it's free,

Granted most big bands still get loads of money spent on advertising, but I don't think the music industry should be like that, bands should get famous becasue people like them and share them with their friends.

Also I don't live in a world where I have to back everything up with facts and sources, my sources are in real life. There's no way I can link you to all of them.

I can't remember excactly how much it costs to hire an engineer and studio for 1 day, I think it's cheap..

Ok so I googled it, you can rent a studio AND an engineer for 180£. Assistants are usually interns and work for free. So that's 180£ apparently.. Granted that might not be amazing quality. But if it can cost 180£ then I'm sure I'm safe in saying that it's around 3k£ for one day with a good engineer. So 3k£, maybe you need a few session musicians, they're around 30-60£ an hour.. Usually you only need them for a few hours. So let's say you have 2 for 5 hours, that's 600£. Then you need someone to master, they can work cheap becauase there are too many. I can't easily find one on the internet but many places are saying around 500$ a track, so like 300£. So around 3900£ to have a song produced. Maybe you need a video but due to the large ammounts of amateur film makers you can usually get it done for free, or possibly around 1k. Once again I can;t back this up but I know it from experience.

http://www.londonmus...2031&pid=490287
http://www.lnlrecord...n_musicians.htm

Theres some links.

Can you believe me now?

Basically, whether I pirate or not it makes no difference. I wouldn't have bought the CD otherwise. Only difference is that if I pirate I hear it and share with my friends, if I don't I don't and my friends might not hear about them.

Please tell me how there is any leeway in the above statement. :pray:

#75
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Plagiarism I don't know much about, in my eyes though it should only be ilegal if people profit from it.


I suggest you read the below again... and uh, how do you plagiarise without profitting off it in some way?

...This link right here...



What I'm saying is is that in my case noone loses any money. I wouldn't have bought the CDs anyway and infact after hearing about the band I go see them.

Already proven that to be invalid.


I really don't understand how you can argue with that :(

Because what you are saying is incorrect, and you fail to answer any critical question to explain yourself.


Also I did say, advertising shouldn't be part of the coosts because msot good bands/musicians go viral on youtube now. Therefore it's free,

That is nonsense, and you know it.


Granted most big bands still get loads of money spent on advertising, but I don't think the music industry should be like that, bands should get famous becasue people like them and share them with their friends.

Believing something should be different doesn't make it different. That also doesn't justify theft.
And uh, how do people get to like bands without advertising? How do they get famous if no-one knows about them?


Also I don't live in a world where I have to back everything up with facts and sources, my sources are in real life. There's no way I can link you to all of them.

I'm not asking for a link to everything, but when you come up with "factual" claims that are made up for whatever reason I think it's reasonable to ask what they are based on.


I can't remember excactly how much it costs to hire an engineer and studio for 1 day, I think it's cheap..

Ok so I googled it, you can rent a studio AND an engineer for 180£. Assistants are usually interns and work for free. So that's 180£ apparently.. Granted that might not be amazing quality. But if it can cost 180£ then I'm sure I'm safe in saying that it's around 3k£ for one day with a good engineer. So 3k£, maybe you need a few session musicians, they're around 30-60£ an hour.. Usually you only need them for a few hours. So let's say you have 2 for 5 hours, that's 600£. Then you need someone to master, they can work cheap becauase there are too many. I can't easily find one on the internet but many places are saying around 500$ a track, so like 300£. So around 3900£ to have a song produced. Maybe you need a video but due to the large ammounts of amateur film makers you can usually get it done for free, or possibly around 1k. Once again I can;t back this up but I know it from experience.


Music videos for free mhm? I'm sure a random cheap camera and lacking choreography will go very far... And all you need is to spend money on an engineer and studio time?

I'm no expert, but I am sure that a lot more is required. You also said that advertising isn't necessary, so if I just randomly spent x thousand pounds on making a song, and then put it on YouTube, following your logic this would happen:

1. "Loads of people" will somehow see my random video with music, and download it for free.
2. I will get "loads" of fans because people will share my song a lot.
3. How on earth do I get a gig then?
4. When does the money come into the picture?
5. I end up facepalming at having lost x amount of money, but the bright side is that a bunch of people got my song for free, and like to listen to it at times?

It does make me wonder what kind of experience you have.. :rolleyes:


Basically, whether I pirate or not it makes no difference. I wouldn't have bought the CD otherwise. Only difference is that if I pirate I hear it and share with my friends, if I don't I don't and my friends might not hear about them.

Please tell me how there is any leeway in the above statement. :pray:

Even if that were true you would still have stolen the music. You didn't buy the right to have it, and therefore you should not have it. If you were intregued enough by something you would have bought it, or heard a song on the radio and then may have chosen to buy it. Even if you didn't, the fact that you take what does not belong to you means you cheat the creators. Shops pay owners of music to be allowed to play it to their customers, that's just the way it works. By having it, and playing it, you owe them the money they are entitled to by the simple fact that it is theirs. That is how they lose.

It does make a difference, because a huge amount of people pirate music (and movies/TV shows), and since that started the sales of music and movies went down by a significant amount.
^I've already explained that before as well.

Would you buy the DVDs to a movie or TV show if you've already pirated it?
Would you buy the CDs if you've already pirated the music?
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#76
No_M0re
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Plagiarism I don't know much about, in my eyes though it should only be ilegal if people profit from it.


I suggest you read the below again... and uh, how do you plagiarise without profitting off it in some way?

...This link right here...



What I'm saying is is that in my case noone loses any money. I wouldn't have bought the CDs anyway and infact after hearing about the band I go see them.

Already proven that to be invalid.


I really don't understand how you can argue with that :(

Because what you are saying is incorrect, and you fail to answer any critical question to explain yourself.


Also I did say, advertising shouldn't be part of the coosts because msot good bands/musicians go viral on youtube now. Therefore it's free,

That is nonsense, and you know it.


Granted most big bands still get loads of money spent on advertising, but I don't think the music industry should be like that, bands should get famous becasue people like them and share them with their friends.

Believing something should be different doesn't make it different. That also doesn't justify theft.
And uh, how do people get to like bands without advertising? How do they get famous if no-one knows about them?


Also I don't live in a world where I have to back everything up with facts and sources, my sources are in real life. There's no way I can link you to all of them.

I'm not asking for a link to everything, but when you come up with "factual" claims that are made up for whatever reason I think it's reasonable to ask what they are based on.


I can't remember excactly how much it costs to hire an engineer and studio for 1 day, I think it's cheap..

Ok so I googled it, you can rent a studio AND an engineer for 180£. Assistants are usually interns and work for free. So that's 180£ apparently.. Granted that might not be amazing quality. But if it can cost 180£ then I'm sure I'm safe in saying that it's around 3k£ for one day with a good engineer. So 3k£, maybe you need a few session musicians, they're around 30-60£ an hour.. Usually you only need them for a few hours. So let's say you have 2 for 5 hours, that's 600£. Then you need someone to master, they can work cheap becauase there are too many. I can't easily find one on the internet but many places are saying around 500$ a track, so like 300£. So around 3900£ to have a song produced. Maybe you need a video but due to the large ammounts of amateur film makers you can usually get it done for free, or possibly around 1k. Once again I can;t back this up but I know it from experience.


Music videos for free mhm? I'm sure a random cheap camera and lacking choreography will go very far... And all you need is to spend money on an engineer and studio time?

I'm no expert, but I am sure that a lot more is required. You also said that advertising isn't necessary, so if I just randomly spent x thousand pounds on making a song, and then put it on YouTube, following your logic this would happen:

1. "Loads of people" will somehow see my random video with music, and download it for free.
2. I will get "loads" of fans because people will share my song a lot.
3. How on earth do I get a gig then?
4. When does the money come into the picture?
5. I end up facepalming at having lost x amount of money, but the bright side is that a bunch of people got my song for free, and like to listen to it at times?

It does make me wonder what kind of experience you have.. :rolleyes:


Basically, whether I pirate or not it makes no difference. I wouldn't have bought the CD otherwise. Only difference is that if I pirate I hear it and share with my friends, if I don't I don't and my friends might not hear about them.

Please tell me how there is any leeway in the above statement. :pray:

Even if that were true you would still have stolen the music. You didn't buy the right to have it, and therefore you should not have it. If you were intregued enough by something you would have bought it, or heard a song on the radio and then may have chosen to buy it. Even if you didn't, the fact that you take what does not belong to you means you cheat the creators. Shops pay owners of music to be allowed to play it to their customers, that's just the way it works. By having it, and playing it, you owe them the money they are entitled to by the simple fact that it is theirs. That is how they lose.

It does make a difference, because a huge amount of people pirate music (and movies/TV shows), and since that started the sales of music and movies went down by a significant amount.
^I've already explained that before as well.

Would you buy the DVDs to a movie or TV show if you've already pirated it?
Would you buy the CDs if you've already pirated the music?


Would I buy DVDs? No, I hate spending 12pound on something I watch once.

Would I buy CDs? Possbily because I can listen to music over and over again but in better quality. I don't though and never have because I'm skinted. I buy vinyl from things I've listen to from pirating.

It is true though, you can get music out without advertising costs.



350k views on an original with no advertising costs? that's pretty good no? (I think it;s a crap song tho)

Also I dunno if you know dubstep?? Most artists got famous by posting music on youtube and are now touring and DJing.

Anyway I can't be assed to argue anymore, your not gunna change my opinion I'm not gunna change yours.. so let's not :thumbup:

#77
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Would you buy the DVDs to a movie or TV show if you've already pirated it?
Would you buy the CDs if you've already pirated the music?

I would and I have. I bought I Am Legend after watching a pirated version a number of times. Unless I'm watching on the tv out the back I prefer watching it off the pirated version though, I have issues with my DVD drive, and I just want to watch the movie; not watch 3 ads for other movies, an ad on how much better Blu-Ray is compared to DVD (even though you can't tell in the ad,) a few ads on how pirating this DVD is illegal even though it's a legal copy, and way too many little ads about the various companies who made the movie (advice, I don't give a [cabbage] who made it as long as it's good.) Every gig I've gone to because I pirated the artists' music beforehand and decided I enjoyed their music enough to go see them live, which I wouldn't have otherwise. On top of that, I own about 15 games I originally pirated I enjoyed enough to purchase and I wouldn't have bought them otherwise as I wasn't sure enough. The cases where I have pirated and not purchased something I would not have purchased the item if I had no other option. As far as it's affected the people who made it, it made no difference what-so-ever. They've only complained because someone tells them about all the money they've lost, then convince them to pursue those people with settlements. Bands such as Radiohead have actually testified against their own labels in court before.

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#78
Jaffy1
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Would you buy the DVDs to a movie or TV show if you've already pirated it?
Would you buy the CDs if you've already pirated the music?

I would and I have. I bought I Am Legend after watching a pirated version a number of times. Unless I'm watching on the tv out the back I prefer watching it off the pirated version though, I have issues with my DVD drive, and I just want to watch the movie; not watch 3 ads for other movies, an ad on how much better Blu-Ray is compared to DVD (even though you can't tell in the ad,) a few ads on how pirating this DVD is illegal even though it's a legal copy, and way too many little ads about the various companies who made the movie (advice, I don't give a [cabbage] who made it as long as it's good.) Every gig I've gone to because I pirated the artists' music beforehand and decided I enjoyed their music enough to go see them live, which I wouldn't have otherwise. On top of that, I own about 15 games I originally pirated I enjoyed enough to purchase and I wouldn't have bought them otherwise as I wasn't sure enough. The cases where I have pirated and not purchased something I would not have purchased the item if I had no other option. As far as it's affected the people who made it, it made no difference what-so-ever. They've only complained because someone tells them about all the money they've lost, then convince them to pursue those people with settlements. Bands such as Radiohead have actually testified against their own labels in court before.


Although I admire that you do, many do not.
I'm in no way on that sort of record labels' side, but that still doesn't mean illegal downloading is right. Legal downloading is perfectly fine, and with the artist's conscent I would assume downloading it is legal.

If many artists wish for their music to be freely available I'm sure that a market for a legal download library can suffice in one way or another, and going back to what's been mentioned before, I agree that that should change. However the notion that illegal downloading at this time is theft simply remains, which is my reason for opposing it.

I'm not sure about Australian DVDs, but the vast majority of the ones I've got don't have advertisementz (TV shows), and the few movies that do have advertisement that can be skipped with a single button. However I do agree that such "in-your-face" kind of messages on a legal copy of something are :thumbdown:
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#79
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@jaffy: there's a difference between piracy and sharing, and in the case of 3million people sharing a cd, it isn't technically piracy. Piracy happens when people obtain a copy of a record/cd without paying for it. The other 2.9million people didn't obtain a copy, they merely borrowed it. And since borrowing/=/taking, sharing/=/piracy (/=/ is supposed to be doesn't equal). I'll admit it though, I didn't use limewire that much, so this doesn't really affect me (although it is hilarious). If they go after youtube though, then they will have problems.
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#80
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@jaffy: there's a difference between piracy and sharing, and in the case of 3million people sharing a cd, it isn't technically piracy. Piracy happens when people obtain a copy of a record/cd without paying for it. The other 2.9million people didn't obtain a copy, they merely borrowed it. And since borrowing/=/taking, sharing/=/piracy (/=/ is supposed to be doesn't equal). I'll admit it though, I didn't use limewire that much, so this doesn't really affect me (although it is hilarious). If they go after youtube though, then they will have problems.

Ah, I misunderstood your comparison then, sorry. I missed you referring to an actual CD.
Still, that is a rather unlikely situation, isn't it?

Anyhow, I don't think anyone will go after YouTube in that respect, since YouTube does fight copyright infrigmentation (e.g. mutes videos with certain songs in them).
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