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Tip.It Times - 3rd April 2011


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#21
Ghost_Phriek
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but in response to the second article:

Mod Mark confirmed that JaGeX will not raise any current Skills past 99 in the Capes of Destinction dev. blog:
"‘Max’ skill cape - a cape that a player can wear if they have reached level 99 in all skills

Traditionally, we have always considered level 99 to be max despite the Dungeoneering skill going to 120. We don’t plan to raise any other skills from 99 to 120, and still feel the max cape should be worn by players with all skills at level 99."

I feel that players who train their Skills to the 200 million cap do it because they want to, and those that don't want to train after 99 won't. 99's are becoming easier and easier to achieve, but once you hit that final level, it's not a matter of "train to 200 million XP or quit" but a matter of shifting your focus from grinding to actual gameplay. I will train my Skills to 200 million, just because I want that spot on the highscores, but most people will not quit just because there is no new content after 99.

#22
Range_This11
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I feel like you all are being a bit harsh on stormy...

Yes, I don't feel that the overload is as "overpowered" as he makes it out to be, considering it's unavailable in PVP. Also, I don't see how it could be considered overpowered in clan wars. If you are willing to spend the money to make one for an event yielding no wealth in return, I believe you deserve the stat boost from it.

That being said, he makes a very good point about including other skills in combat. Those of you who are looking for a point, there it is. The fact that Jagex created the overload shows that they want the respective skill to be included in combat. In my opinion, a similar update could be done for many other skills that could prove to be just as useful (although the idea of the balistia seems a bit comical).

Hooray! Finally someone who didn't let their disagreement with one point in the article let it affect the larger issue at hand.

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#23
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@stormy: your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine: it had a ton of very interesting/expandable points, but none of them were really sharp/you had no real centre of focus. It was as if you wrote the article trying to cover multiple things that bugged you, rather than writing a seperate one for each. 2/10 on your article (sad, seeing as I'm usually a fan of your work).

2nd article was much the same, 1.5/10 on that one


Let's view that quote.

@stormy: your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine:


WHAT THE [bleep]

Siggied.

Also, yeah, incorporating other skills into combat would be a good thing, but keep them away from PVP. PVP is dangerous enough as is. And please release new boss monsters if/when this happens, we don't need another (or more) Bandos GW. (An easy boss that requires pretty much the best bossing gear in the game because there's so much damned competition.)

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#24
Tritous
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The 99 depreciation topic is something that was part of a massive thread i ran in 2007 that hit over 7000 posts (ok, probably half was flamers, but the rest was interesting). The conclusion we reached even back then was that the level cap needed to be lifted. Skills devalue, achievements saturate and fade, its not fair on all.

The difference is we didnt look at 120. we were looking at levels far past that, uncapped. even 200m exp isn't going to get much past about 135? After that the difficulty to level goes far beyond sensible. when you are talking tens of millions per level, there is no way you can sensibly focus on more than one skill. No general skiller will ever reach 140 mining, but someone who does nothing but mine might. They become the first person to be able to mine (or even know about, it wouldnt' have to be in the manual) a new ore. Then you need to find the 1 smith who can work it to make something.

Bring back a meaning to being the best. Make it a tradeoff: do you keep training to be at the top or do you cash in your level, go for this new content that only you have unlocked and risk someone else overtaking you in order to get rich? These are things that could take a year to unlock, need the cooperation of several specialists and days of work to make 1 masterpiece of armour...that still only limited numbers of people can wear.

A hard ramp in maybe, but can you imagine getting that level up message and being told you can fish something that neither you nor anyone else has heard of (don't put it in the manual until 5+ people have unlocked it)? You'd have to explore and find the spot yourself at first, who would be the first person to eat it to test its effects? what if the cook burnt something that took you 10 minutes to fish with a complicated method? Exploration and teamwork would be the long term result, something this game has increasingly lost
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#25
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In reference to the 99 article, it probably doesn't help that some treat it as a vocation rather than a game to spend a few hours on here and there. If someone exhausts the game content then its fairly obvious they've been bludgeoning their way to their 99's, putting in quite a number of hours to get there.

#26
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I feel like you all are being a bit harsh on stormy...

Yes, I don't feel that the overload is as "overpowered" as he makes it out to be, considering it's unavailable in PVP. Also, I don't see how it could be considered overpowered in clan wars. If you are willing to spend the money to make one for an event yielding no wealth in return, I believe you deserve the stat boost from it.

That being said, he makes a very good point about including other skills in combat. Those of you who are looking for a point, there it is. The fact that Jagex created the overload shows that they want the respective skill to be included in combat. In my opinion, a similar update could be done for many other skills that could prove to be just as useful (although the idea of the balistia seems a bit comical).

Another note: I actually enjoyed it being written in a humorous sort of laid back style, a nice change from the "depressing, doomsday articles week" we had a few weeks back.

For the second article: No. Just, no. Bad idea. Really, really, bad idea. 90% of runescape's population hasn't achieved 99 in more than 3 or 4 skills.


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#27
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I think jagex should improve the current skills rather than make more levels to grind.

:thumbup:

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#28
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Re: To 99 - and beyond

Good article, but I disagree with the conclusion entirely!

Have anyone calculated how much playing time to been invested if you want 99 in all skills?
My bet after having played for 5 years quite regularly is that those accounts with all 99s and then some are played by groups of players combining their efforts with the addict now and then completing the list.
An average player with a couple of hours play a day would struggle to get any 99s at all, not to mention a full house.

My advice to Jagex would be to leave the top out point at 99 and rather continue to put effort in activities, quests and other new content.
For the great mass of players - and that means for the great mass of income - getting 99s is a hard enough goal to stretch for - I haven't got one yet. Moving that goal further up would be very discouraging for most players.

#29
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Re: To 99 - and beyond

Good article, but I disagree with the conclusion entirely!

Have anyone calculated how much playing time to been invested if you want 99 in all skills?
My bet after having played for 5 years quite regularly is that those accounts with all 99s and then some are played by groups of players combining their efforts with the addict now and then completing the list.
An average player with a couple of hours play a day would struggle to get any 99s at all, not to mention a full house.

My advice to Jagex would be to leave the top out point at 99 and rather continue to put effort in activities, quests and other new content.
For the great mass of players - and that means for the great mass of income - getting 99s is a hard enough goal to stretch for - I haven't got one yet. Moving that goal further up would be very discouraging for most players.


This. I have 3 major thoughts about 120: fix the skill before moving it upward. Make actual levels much more rewarding and worthwhile to get, which in itself would take years. Then we need the exp levesl to grow with the skill level; the few skilsl this happens in are obscenely expensive. 99 herb, aka 13m exp, easily costs 200m+. 120 would cost billlions.

Lastly, do something in the game so that people specialize 120 skills. NOT by just making it really hard to get lots of 120 skills or whatever, but by actually putting a limit on it somehow.

Or, a 4th thougth, don't do it. Refer to the above post for some reasons.

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#30
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in reply to 99 and beyond:

Id much rater see them worry about getting content for up to 99 first. alot of skills stop in the mid 80's and have nothing above them. and as for high lvl gear saturation, im in favor of instanced, soloable bosses that drop untradable high lvl gear. (would really love a boss in this manner that requires a high slayer lvl.) similar things could be done for other skills, such as fish that can only be caught and cooked by you, rocks that you need the lvls to mine and smith into high lvl armor, ect.
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#31
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I think jagex should improve the current skills rather than make more levels to grind.

:thumbup:

Nice in theory, but in practice players don't use it that way. The bulk would rather get 99 as fast as possible rather than do what they find enjoyable, then complain they had to grind.

#32
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I think jagex should improve the current skills rather than make more levels to grind.

:thumbup:

Nice in theory, but in practice players don't use it that way. The bulk would rather get 99 as fast as possible rather than do what they find enjoyable, then complain they had to grind.


Way to miss the point.

:rolleyes:

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#33
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Way to miss the point.

:rolleyes:


What point was missed? Unless you give xp fast and now then the ipod generation doesn't like it. There's plenty of players who don't mind the 'grind' and actually treat it as part of the game. It's called patience and the feeling that something you've worked towards has been worthwhile. Try it sometime.

#34
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Way to miss the point.

:rolleyes:


What point was missed? Unless you give xp fast and now then the ipod generation doesn't like it. There's plenty of players who don't mind the 'grind' and actually treat it as part of the game. It's called patience and the feeling that something you've worked towards has been worthwhile. Try it sometime.


Still missed the point. <_<

The point is that we'd prefer CONTENT over more levels -- i.e. - making skills "useful", etc. :thumbup:

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#35
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In regards to the article with the jibberish title, you can now add farming to the list of useful combat skills.
That disruption shield spell looks outstanding and you aren't getting it without doing a huge chunk of new, in-game farm training. :thumbup:

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#36
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Way to miss the point.

:rolleyes:


What point was missed? Unless you give xp fast and now then the ipod generation doesn't like it. There's plenty of players who don't mind the 'grind' and actually treat it as part of the game. It's called patience and the feeling that something you've worked towards has been worthwhile. Try it sometime.


Still missed the point. <_<

The point is that we'd prefer CONTENT over more levels -- i.e. - making skills "useful", etc. :thumbup:


Exactly. As beaten to death as it is, the reason the majority of people grind is to reach what they think is the real meat of the game, meaning the point when the skill becomes useful or gives them access to content. Granted, there should be a balance between grinding and unlocking new content because there is such a thing as too much to do. Heh.

Take firemaking. If they made firemaking more flexible - hell, I wish they allowed me to interact more with the environment using this skill instead of having it be primarily for lighting cooking fires. If I use a tinderbox on an Ardougne guardsman I damn well ought to get more than the nothing interesting message happens, I want to see that man trailing smoke and running around like a...well, a man on fire. I get some experience for firemaking and a chance for combat experience when guard reinforcements descend on me.

If I wanted to stab a dwarf with a chisel, I ought to be able to and get my ass kicked for it. As it were I have to settle with a pickaxe, which is fine enough, I suppose. Simple things like having everyday tools interact with the everyday environment, giving experience in certain skills - even as a simple text message - would help tremendously with lifting the grind. Far as I'm concerned Runescape has sandbox gameplay elements Jagex has barely scratched the surface of.

EDIT: Come to think on it, logs should burst into flame when I use fire combat spells on them, with higher level spells giving a risk of turning low level logs into blasted cinders instead of a roaring bonfire. But what do I get? "Nothing interesting happens."
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#37
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Still missed the point. <_<

The point is that we'd prefer CONTENT over more levels -- i.e. - making skills "useful", etc. :thumbup:

I think you've got this backwards. Jagex has been releasing new content and variation on things for a while now. The point of it is lost. Players are so xp obsessed and are more concerned with rattling up the numbers so unless this 'usefulness' grants them more xp per hour it's often disregarded, no matter how 'useful' it is. There's plenty of content around if you bother to actually use it instead of looking at what amount of xp you're getting.

@Bioice - Nice ideas that have the longevity of about 2 seconds.

#38
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Two seconds because it doesn't look like grinding, mayhap? Or maybe because it's not your cup of tea? But that is beside the point. My point being that I should be able to, but currently I cannot. There's just little variety in normal firemaking aside from mainly burning different types of logs. That pattern goes for a number of other skills, mainly the gathering ones that are botted most.

If new content cannot equal or beat normal grinding then there isn't any point doing it, a practical attitude that's been there for a long time. Little anyone can do about it. However, if Jagex's little activities and diversions gave experience equal to normal grind methods perhaps there'll be a change. Then it'll come down to how clunky and "fun" their minigames are. You'd soon see a shift in the community at large from "how fast can I get to 99" to "what's fun to get to 99?"

They're not likely to up the experience rate though, what with all the nerfs they put into experience gain for certain skills in dungeoneering. Which is a pity.
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#39
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No matter how you dress something up, if it’s done continuously it’s viewed as grinding. It’s not the game that’s the problem, but the attitude of players themselves. You rightly say that we have plenty of activities that can distract and there are variations on most stuff if players bother to take a look.

Rightly or wrongly players view their game as stats. The majority want their 99’s in the quickest time with the least effort. Ok...fine. I take issue with the attitude that comes with it, normally due to one or more of the following:
  • Beating a skill senseless by training it continuously until they get 99, spending all their game time training it until it becomes boring.
  • Using one method of training, usually ‘cos it getz me 99 da fastest!’, ignoring alternative because they view it as too slow or they’re too blinkered to bother to try it.
  • Playing a ridiculous amount of game time instead of concentrating on family/school work/neglecting their kids/treating RS as a vocation rather than a game etc.
It’s the players that are the problem, not the game.

#40
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I have not trained Herblore during any Bonus Exp weekends yet. It is my lowest Skill & it Costs a LOT of Gp (which I don't have)
Don't think I'd make Overloads

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