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You're right. And I agree.

 

Anything with long-term detrimental effects, that humans regularly like to take part in anyway, should ideally fall under the same category of recreational drug use.

I guess I just looked to much into this statement. I just think it isn't good to compare video gaming/sports with drug use. There's that sense of social acceptance that you alluded to (the stigma). Heck, driving a car is extremely dangerous. But we still do it, fully aware of how dangerous it is. Yet there's that distinct difference between driving and drug use (that I find to be common sense).


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I guess it just depends on the context of the usage. A boxer who boxes because he is a sadist and likes to inflict pain on others deserves to have his interest shunned, but it doesn't necessarily make boxing evil. A gamer who plays because he is afraid of real life interaction and would rather live in a simulated safe world deserves to have his lifestyle shunned, but it doesn't necessarily make video games an anti-social barrier. A junkie who sells all of his family's possessions for his next fix deserves to have his priorities shunned, but it doesn't necessarily make heroin a life/relationship-ruiner. It is my opinion that it should come down to the individual. These objects and activities around us are not the problem - it is our relationship with the objects and our lack of exercising precautions and responsibilities when tampering with the objects/activities.

 

That being said, I'm quite skeptical about the percentage of responsible heroin users, given the fact that I'm not even used to seeing many people handle marijuana or alcohol responsibly. At least not in this country.

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These objects and activities around us are not the problem - it is our relationship with the objects and our lack of exercising precautions and responsibilities when tampering with the objects/activities.

Good point. And I think the reason why many people see heroin/drugs in general as being the problem is because so few people know how to have a safe/controlled relationship with it, or like you said, exercise precautions and responsibilities.

 

Again, I'm assuming that the majority of drug users have abusive relationships with drugs, as opposed to controlled. Don't shoot me, Venomai. D:


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EDIT: But common sense tells me that even saying 75% of all non-junkies are heroin users is stupid. I'd even go as low as 50%.

Because you can't pinpoint the statistic, the number is irrelevant because we can't base a reasoning on it. All we know, for now, is that there are fully-functioning heroin users out there. The only argument I can really come up with for our proposition is that the risk is far too high compared to the reward (a feeling of happiness), which can be attained through other things. In short, I don't believe in letting someone give up on the pursuit of happiness.

You are, however, right in that addiction to sports is psychological, whereas heroin causes physiological withdrawal symptoms.


Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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If you have concerns with what a friend is using, by all means, tell them. To say that I shouldn't have no problem to people using drugs if they so desire is not acceptable.

The second part of your post is confusing. I'm not sure whether you mean to say that it is unacceptable to have a problem with people using drugs if they desire to, or the other way around. There's a lot of "not"s in that statement. :P

My apologies, I'm saying that it's unacceptable to have the stance of I'm a bad friend for not opposing to one using a drug.


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And I think many of the people here are excluding those who use drugs in a controlled fashion because if they are, why are they of any concern?

That's the point: they shouldn't be of any concern. But the social stigma still exists. The misinformation still exists (you admitted yourself, you had no idea of controlled heroin use). The laws and policies still exist.

 

Hence my desire to discuss it here.

 

It was said eariler that many drugs are done out of curiosity. Curiosity implies not knowing much about whatever is being done. How many people do you think actually research "controlled heroine use" before they try it? Sure, they're physically and psychologically capable of doing said research and using heroine in a controlled manner. Doesn't mean they will.

You don't need a lot of research in order to use a drug smartly and safely. (Note: Some controlled users may have developed their 'rules' and discipline over time, rather than at the onset of heroin use.)

 

Reaching a couple hundred controlled heroin users may seem insignificant compared to the countless hoards of junkies, but then again, the idea of controlled use was virtually non-existent no less than a decade ago.

 

Tired. Will respond to other stuff later.

 

--

 

A quick note on the addiction statistic mentioned earlier; here is a 1974 study which helps to back the ~23% Omar cited. This study took into account narcotic use during and after the Vietnam war:

How Permanent was Vietnam Drug Addiction?

 

A sample of 495 drug-positive Army enlisted men was taken. Of these...

79% had used heroin during Vietnam.

During Vietnam, 20% had become addicted to a narcotic (heroin or another opiate).

 

NB: After Vietnam, this addiction rate dropped to 1%. After 10 months of post-Vietnam, the remission rate for addiction was 95%. Addiction was almost completely gone.

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That's the point: they shouldn't be of any concern. But the social stigma still exists. The misinformation still exists (you admitted yourself, you had no idea of controlled heroin use). The laws and policies still exist.

 

Hence my desire to discuss it here.

I think the stigma that's been seen in this thread is not the generalization that all heroin addicts/users are homeless junkies who have destroyed their lives (Off-Topic is too smart to do that :)). I think it's more because we're worried that those who use heroin will damage themselves psychologically and physically, because so many people have done so in the past. At least in my case, the only reason why I'd assume that someone using heroin might be in harm's way is because it does, in fact, harm so many people. Even if they were using it in a controlled way, I'd still be worried. That isn't a bad stigma, I'd say. It's one based on concern.

 

There's plenty of safety hazards for riding a motor cycle, but there's a perfectly safe way to do it. Yet, that doesn't stop me from worrying about my dad, mom, and little brother whenever they go out on a ride.

 

It might just be me, but I don't judge heroin users to be homeless addicts or whatever. I'm concerned for them. Being perfectly honest, I'll only jump to that conclusion if I see a user whose life is actually down in the dumps and who can't seem to control his/her urges. But I'll still be compassionate for them.


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Legal, very dangerous things:

 

Flamethrowers

Miniguns

Thermite

Blaster rifles

High power lasers (when I say high power I mean HIGH power)

Tanks and jets (weapons deactivated, but still)

Grenade launchers

Tanning beds

 

Illegal, nearly harmless things:

Can­nabis

 

 

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A lot of those items may be legal, but you probably have to have a permit or some sort of documentation that shows you are capable of handling the equipment safely... And that you're allowed to operate it in the first place.

 

Except maybe the tanning beds. :P


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Lasers/blaster rifle available online, thermite can be made at home. And if you make a flamethrower yourself, it's legal as well.


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There are tons of 'legal' objects that can be extremely harmful when used wrongly against another person. Are they supposed to illegalize knives? Thermite is used in industry/construction, knives are used as cooking utensils and for various other unharmful activities.

 

To me, it doesn't seem that stupid. I mean, the way you put it, yes, it seems perposterous, but if you look at other objects, you'll see that almost any object can be harmful in some way or another.


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So why is marijuana illegal out of all of them is my point :wink:


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Preach to the choir: check.

@Venomai: Your study's results seem inconclusive to me, or rather, in need of contextualization.

USEverUesdHeroinP.jpg

This study was conducted in 2004, so the numbers of heroin users are not those of 1972 (I can't find any, perhaps you'll do better). They are however probably comparable to those of the time, perhaps lower. Even if we make the overestimation that 20% of Americans had used heroin in their lifetime in 1972 (overestimation because the numbers for people 34+ years old are far lower), that's still a big contrast to the 79% of soldiers. There was likely a large correlation between the fact that they were at war, committing horrendous acts of violence, and their drug use. When the war ends, many of the problems which caused them to seek an "artificial paradise" end.

This isn't the case in a city life setting however: while the war's continuation wasn't realistically influenced by the heroin addictions, a stable lifestyle can be. By exacerbating the problems which can cause a person to start using heroin (homelessness made worse by a lack of funds to pay for a house because of a need for drugs), the addiction can drag itself on.


Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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How do you guys decide between bonging it and rolling Js ?

 

I can never make up my mind =|

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Anyone here ever tried DMT?


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I find it upsetting that heroin is so stigmatized. If you're responsible, it's not that unhealthy and is rather enjoyable.


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I will pass on down the corridor.

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People notice the bad more than the good. If you get a test back with a bunch of red corrections, you're likely to look at those before you look at the stuff that doesn't have red marks on it.

 

I think the same goes for heroin. First off, people who use heroin responsibly and don't get carried away, and therefore aren't affected much in regards to their physical and psychological appearance, aren't likely to make it known to the world that they use heroin. This first part is kinda a chain, since my point is they don't want people to know because of the stigma, but they also contribute to the stigma by not publicizing their safe/responsible use.

 

Secondly, since responsible users don't come right out and tell everyone they use heroin safely, people only pay attention to those heroin users who are visible in society (visible not because they make it known verbally; visible because their unsafe/irresponsible use has physically and psychologically altered them). Those visible cannot hide like those who use it responsibly because their very appearance/personality can alert someone of their addiction/improper use.

 

Basically what I'm getting at is people rarely see cases of responsible heroin use because it's very easy to hide. Which leads to people only paying attention to awful cases of heroin abuse --> leading to the stigma. Yet, the stigma stays strong as ever cause those responsible heroin users hide because of the stigma.

 

What a vicious cycle. :P


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How do you guys decide between bonging it and rolling Js ?

 

I can never make up my mind =|

Bongs waste less in my experience but I'm always high enough whichever I do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5lbYdtspz4

Still waiting for someone to try this, then inhale the cold (and therefore less harsh?) smoke.


Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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I find it upsetting that heroin is so stigmatized. If you're responsible, it's not that unhealthy and is rather enjoyable.

If I'm not mistaken, it's hard to know your dosage, so it's easy to overdose, no?


Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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How do you guys decide between bonging it and rolling Js ?

 

I can never make up my mind =|

 

I think joints are better for when you're out and about, so you don't have to carry anything big. Bongs are better for when you're at your house, so long as no clumsy people are around it. Other than that, they are both pretty inefficient if conservation is the issue. But my humble advice is A BLUNT 2 THA MUTHA [bleep]IN FACE DAWG.

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I find it upsetting that heroin is so stigmatized. If you're responsible, it's not that unhealthy and is rather enjoyable.

If I'm not mistaken, it's hard to know your dosage, so it's easy to overdose, no?

If you decide to shoot it, most people start at about 10-30mg, which is 10x less than an overdose. The particular amounts are also dependent on grade, but the lethal threshold doesn't vary all that much. It's generally addicts who have built a stiff tolerance that OD considering they shoot a lot more than someone who uses recreationally.


I will put my boots on.

 

I will pass on down the corridor.

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Okay, here it is

 

If you want the most efficiency from your herbs, you either bake them (brownies, cookies, cakes, whatever) or vaporize them. This is the least harsh on your lungs and the most healthy in general. Vaporization gives you the maximum THC, but is (anecdotal only) not as enjoyable as smoking.

 

If you want a little easier and less expensive, as well as preferred for getting the most "oomph" out of your herbs (you know what I mean) then you go for a bong. Pipes fit here as well, though bongs are smoother, cooler, and let you take bigger rips.

 

Easiest (if you're good at rolling), by far the least efficient, and popular is Js and Bs. The bigger it is, the less efficient it is (so go for a J instead of a B).

 

Since I don't have cash for a bong right now, I use a homemade one. If you want instructions PM me or post here.


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how exactly do you bake it into food? Do you just make the brownies/cake/whatever normally and throw it in?

 

Just google weed brownies, I don't think it's a good idea to link to recipes on here :lol: There are plenty of recipes out there, so it should be easy to find.


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Do you just make the brownies/cake/whatever normally and throw it in?

Wrong. You gather the weed and then throw in a few brownies/cake pieces.

 

:lol:


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