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TIF is bit over-moderated

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Sure, people flame on forums and things get out of hand a bit. But that is just how the internet is.

Sure, people open new threads instead of digging through pages of pages or searching for an age old thread.

etc...

When moderaring gets to the point where good threads gets locked and sent to oblivion because of flamers or everything gets merged into giant 50 page threads that nobody reads or that even people are scared to make new topics I think it's just a bit overdoing the moderating.

 

RSOF is already managed by a bunch of Nazis, I hope TIF stays as free as ever. Mods, please be a bit more lax before sentencing threads to death.

 

/randomrant

Edited by Y_Guy
fixed spelling error in title

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I would actually say that it is under moderated. You have to remember that we aren't corporate suits coming to the forum to police it, we are all just users of the forum such as yourself who together make a very wide ranging opinion base. The majority of moderators and regular users have complained that flaming and spam has gotten out of hand in the past months.

 

The problem is those flaming and spamming. There are a few users (I will not name names) who toe the line between breaking rules and not breaking rules, which we cannot ban due to fear of backlash, meaning they go un-punished on the forums for a long time adding to flame and spam. These users ruin threads, not the locking of them.

 

If you see spamming, personal insults and flaming, report it but don't respond to it. Unfortunately, many people do respond leading threads to become nothing but a place where people cannot discuss.


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It's very difficult to develop a system that works for everyone, if not impossible. This is because of bias. No, I'm not saying that to insult you or anyone else who uses this forum. It's human nature. It's impossible to completely remove bias; you can only limit it. That being said, I think that the mods are doing a fine job about keeping that in check. But, it's still in place in many situations. Take one thread that is locked. If it belongs to you or if you have interest in the topic, you'd obviously be more inclined about keeping it open, often ignoring the reasons why it was locked (at least partially).

 

It's not an easy job being a moderator of such a large forum, and it should be noted as such. I'm sure they'd be open to constructive criticism, but the problem remains: what specific situations did you find were unfair? What specific solutions can be provided to resolve such an issue? Just a few questions you can answer to help make it constructive rather than throwing out a few blanketed statements.


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If you believe a thread is unfairly locked then you are welcome to report the thread or PM the moderator who locked it so it can be "reconsidered."

 

But either way, flaming has never been tolerated on Tip.It. We want to make the forum as welcoming, positive and friendly as possible. Flaming may be a fact of life but that does not mean we have to allow it. Bullying is a fact of life but schools still disallow it and for good reason. There is no reason to resort to flaming. Once people start throwing around insults, the topic at hand is no longer even being discussed. Instead you're just insulting people and there is no real reason to do that.


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people are scared to make new topics I think it's just a bit overdoing the moderating.

 

Are you reflecting your feelings onto the group?


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Frankly, I think it's undermoderated - even looking at off topic or the rants subsection (those are perhaps bad examples :P). It's certainly not the warm and welcoming place I remember from several years back, but that's inevitable with the rose glasses of hindsight and an ever expanding userbase. As Danq said, there seem to be a few people who toe the line and make it... uncomfortable for other users.


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Overmoderrated? Really?

 

I'm seeing alot of flaming/trolling more than ever...


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Hey there,

 

I've moved this to the Forum Feedback section as this is the place people are going to be looking for topics with anything to do with the forum and we want to maximize user input on topics that require it by making them appeal to the right audience.

 

Cowman

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Hey there,

 

I've moved this to the Forum Feedback section as this is the place people are going to be looking for topics with anything to do with the forum and we want to maximize user input on topics that require it by making them appeal to the right audience.

 

Cowman

 

Thank your for proving the OP's point.

 

Also well done on undermining your fellow staffs judgement on where a thread should and shouldn't be.

 

By all means go and hide this rant away from your innocent viewers, don't want it being a blight on your garden of eden here.


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TIF's moderation isn't very balanced.

Some of the time, the willing moderators aren't necessarily available.

 

The times where a TIF moderator does intervenes, they have a tendency to take it personally and or take a stance based on their personal ideals.

It is practically never the case that a TIF mod takes some time to step back and reflect, before raining judgment.

 

Lets say, hypothetically, a mod makes a mistake.

What happens? Will the mod ever get feedback telling them they made a mistake?

If they do will they alone be able to see that they made a mistake, or would they brush it off.

 

A lot of people I know, are very very upset at TIF moderation and administration.

Some of us for recent reasons, some of us for deep rooted reasons stemming from years ago.

 

So here's the problem. When we appeal to a mod, it's through PMs.

It boils down to a 1 on 1 interaction between moderator and player.

And should the moderator choose to, he/she has every right to take a brick wall stance, leaving the player helpless.

In the American justice system, people have a right to a lawyer. Someone, who to a small extent, has the power to moderate the moderator.

 

Because if one moderator crosses the line, it's simply an additional effort to PM another moderator, and get him/her involved as well.

An effort that the vast majority of people would not take.

But if you had multiple mods, then the moderators keep an eye on each other as well as the player.

No one moderator can overstep any lines.

 

But, this is almost never the case. The moderators are free to reign judgment on forum goers.

Creating the illusion of over moderation.

 

in short, lack of competent staff, and overzealousness on the part of some of the moderators.

 

I'll be blunt.

Me and my friends have tried appealing to other mods when things do not go as we hope.

And there's pretty much only 2 mods we can count on to actually do anything.

Das is one, he actually exerts the effort to try and create a solution between the moderators and the players.

I can't remember who the other one is,

We've tried appealing to say, Tripsis for example. Who, I respect as a moderator.

But she's too by the book. If we have a problem, her reaction is always, more or less. Here are the rules. Sorry, I can't change them.

Which doesn't really do anything to alleviate the solution.

IE Tripsis is a brick wall. Which is fine in some regards. It makes her a perfectly fair judge which is effective moderation the majority of the time.

But completely useless if you're seeking compromise, not to be told what you already know.

 

I consider Danq overidealistic. Bottom line is I don't think he thinks things through well enough.

But hey, none of the other mods are going to tell him that. And if a non mod tells him that, it's fallen on deaf ears.

A prime example of what happens when you let a mod run amok with without having a reliable source of feedback.

 

I consider Racheya simply slow on the uptake. The last time I spoke with Racheya, i spent literally about 10 pages of posts explaining what my assertion was.

I did not even get to argue with her, because it took me so long to explain what I was trying to say.

But of course, I can't exactly say, hey Racheya, you're really not getting it. Because Racheya's a mod.

And nobody else is going to say it either. So the issue remains.

 

I could go on, about other mods too.

But regardless, I've frankly given up on the TIF community.

 

This post is a courtesy.

But I have other friends that are actually trying to take efforts make things better and I'll support their efforts.

And likewise, I'll help and answer any honest questions a TIF mod wants to ask me so long as my friends are willing to support this community.

But once my friends stop supporting you, TIF can burn for all I care.


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Hey there,

 

I've moved this to the Forum Feedback section as this is the place people are going to be looking for topics with anything to do with the forum and we want to maximize user input on topics that require it by making them appeal to the right audience.

 

Cowman

 

Thank your for proving the OP's point.

 

Also well done on undermining your fellow staffs judgement on where a thread should and shouldn't be.

 

By all means go and hide this rant away from your innocent viewers, don't want it being a blight on your garden of eden here.

 

Rants are in the RuneScape section and the RuneScape section for discussion of topics related to RuneScape. Since this topic is giving us feedback on how we run our forums and not a rant on RuneScape, I see no reason why this wouldn't be a suitable place to discuss this matter. In fact my initial aim for moving this topic was to get more feedback from the people that are looking for a place to give feedback for our forums (this forum) and not looking to rant about something related to RuneScape.

 

You're free to misinterpret my intentions for moving this topic, but I have laid out everything going on in my mind before you. :)

 

Cowman

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Sure, people flame on forums and things get out of hand a bit. But that is just how the internet is.

Sure, people open new threads instead of digging through pages of pages or searching for an age old thread.

etc...

When moderaring gets to the point where good threads gets locked and sent to oblivion because of flamers or everything gets merged into giant 50 page threads that nobody reads or that even people are scared to make new topics I think it's just a bit overdoing the moderating.

 

RSOF is already managed by a bunch of Nazis, I hope TIF stays as free as ever. Mods, please be a bit more lax before sentencing threads to death.

 

/randomrant

I somewhat agree, but i think the it's not really over-moderation but rather stupid-moderation in that they rely heavily on user reports in making judgment about moderation- i see blatant flaming frequently that goes completely unnoticed because it's not directed at some fairy queens, while making impersonal and humorous jokes about some softy means a forum ban.

 

Just look at this topic: someone expressed their opinion in the way of a rant, two mods made up quite bs replies that missed most of the points the op was trying to make and the a third one comes in and says: ''Over moderated? Well watch this!'' and does his BS move. Don't get me wrong, some of the moderators do their job in passion and well, but some just seem genuinely corrupt.

 

Oh, and yes, i'm still assuming this is a rant. I have no idea how anyone can even think of making a rant into a suggestion thread. That's a stupid idea.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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When i saw this thread, deep down i hoped that the first (at least) 5 posts would be all mods saying completely ridiculous things, acting like idiots, and flaming. First time Tip.it mods have failed me. other than that keep up the good work :thumbup:


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I do agree that there are too many stickies. That topic came up a few years ago in rants, when a huge portion of rants are not allowed their own topic (rant about dying? post it here!), and stuff that goes into some stickies it never read. The screenshot sticky is good, the hidden update sticky is pointless (they announce nearly everything in patch notes now; the hidden updates are just updates people never noticed in an old patch notes), I guess the coming/going thread is alright, but past that, the stickies get annoying.


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I somewhat agree, but i think the it's not really over-moderation but rather stupid-moderation in that they rely heavily on user reports in making judgment about moderation- i see blatant flaming frequently that goes completely unnoticed because it's not directed at some fairy queens, while making impersonal and humorous jokes about some softy means a forum ban.

 

Just look at this topic: someone expressed their opinion in the way of a rant, two mods made up quite bs replies that missed most of the points the op was trying to make and the a third one comes in and says: ''Over moderated? Well watch this!'' and does his BS move. Don't get me wrong, some of the moderators do their job in passion and well, but some just seem genuinely corrupt.

 

Oh, and yes, i'm still assuming this is a rant. I have no idea how anyone can even think of making a rant into a suggestion thread. That's a stupid idea.

 

If you see blatant flaming that goes unnoticed, report it. It doesn't have to be directed at you to report it.

 

It's unreasonable to expect us to read every single post in every single thread and judge it. By pointing us in the right direction, you help change the moderating for the better.


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If you see blatant flaming that goes unnoticed, report it. It doesn't have to be directed at you to report it.

 

It's unreasonable to expect us to read every single post in every single thread and judge it. By pointing us in the right direction, you help change the moderating for the better.

The point is that i don't see the point of reporting as there is no way a blob of text can hurt me, but that doesn't mean when i use a similar style that i myself won't get reported. If the system isn't balanced, why have one in the first place?(the majority of moderating can't be based on reports because of this, and there has to be more human interference in the system) Apparently, as it turns out, flaming is a good thing if done against someone who has the balls to take it, but only bad when used against wannabe-mods and softies.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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If you see blatant flaming that goes unnoticed, report it. It doesn't have to be directed at you to report it.

 

It's unreasonable to expect us to read every single post in every single thread and judge it. By pointing us in the right direction, you help change the moderating for the better.

The point is that i don't see the point of reporting as there is no way a blob of text can hurt me, but that doesn't mean when i use a similar style that i myself won't get reported. If the system isn't balanced, why have one in the first place?(the majority of moderating can't be based on reports because of this, and there has to be more human interference in the system) Apparently, as it turns out, flaming is a good thing if done against someone who has the balls to take it, but only bad when used against wannabe-mods and softies.

 

That's not true at all. Flaming is bad regardless of who directs it....I agree that people who are personally insulted are more likely to report, but what's the alternative?

 

Often times I will just be reading the forums (not gen) and notice something that's bad flaming, like you said, and take care of it. But these forums are massive, with thousands of posts every day, we can't notice everything. I wish we could, but without your help we can't.


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TIF's moderation isn't very balanced.

Some of the time, the willing moderators aren't necessarily available.

 

The times where a TIF moderator does intervenes, they have a tendency to take it personally and or take a stance based on their personal ideals.

It is practically never the case that a TIF mod takes some time to step back and reflect, before raining judgment.

 

Lets say, hypothetically, a mod makes a mistake.

What happens? Will the mod ever get feedback telling them they made a mistake?

If they do will they alone be able to see that they made a mistake, or would they brush it off.

 

A lot of people I know, are very very upset at TIF moderation and administration.

Some of us for recent reasons, some of us for deep rooted reasons stemming from years ago.

 

So here's the problem. When we appeal to a mod, it's through PMs.

It boils down to a 1 on 1 interaction between moderator and player.

And should the moderator choose to, he/she has every right to take a brick wall stance, leaving the player helpless.

In the American justice system, people have a right to a lawyer. Someone, who to a small extent, has the power to moderate the moderator.

 

Because if one moderator crosses the line, it's simply an additional effort to PM another moderator, and get him/her involved as well.

An effort that the vast majority of people would not take.

But if you had multiple mods, then the moderators keep an eye on each other as well as the player.

No one moderator can overstep any lines.

 

But, this is almost never the case. The moderators are free to reign judgment on forum goers.

Creating the illusion of over moderation.

 

in short, lack of competent staff, and overzealousness on the part of some of the moderators.

 

I'll be blunt.

Me and my friends have tried appealing to other mods when things do not go as we hope.

And there's pretty much only 2 mods we can count on to actually do anything.

Das is one, he actually exerts the effort to try and create a solution between the moderators and the players.

I can't remember who the other one is,

We've tried appealing to say, Tripsis for example. Who, I respect as a moderator.

But she's too by the book. If we have a problem, her reaction is always, more or less. Here are the rules. Sorry, I can't change them.

Which doesn't really do anything to alleviate the solution.

IE Tripsis is a brick wall. Which is fine in some regards. It makes her a perfectly fair judge which is effective moderation the majority of the time.

But completely useless if you're seeking compromise, not to be told what you already know.

 

I consider Danq overidealistic. Bottom line is I don't think he thinks things through well enough.

But hey, none of the other mods are going to tell him that. And if a non mod tells him that, it's fallen on deaf ears.

A prime example of what happens when you let a mod run amok with without having a reliable source of feedback.

 

I consider Racheya simply slow on the uptake. The last time I spoke with Racheya, i spent literally about 10 pages of posts explaining what my assertion was.

I did not even get to argue with her, because it took me so long to explain what I was trying to say.

But of course, I can't exactly say, hey Racheya, you're really not getting it. Because Racheya's a mod.

And nobody else is going to say it either. So the issue remains.

 

I could go on, about other mods too.

But regardless, I've frankly given up on the TIF community.

 

This post is a courtesy.

But I have other friends that are actually trying to take efforts make things better and I'll support their efforts.

And likewise, I'll help and answer any honest questions a TIF mod wants to ask me so long as my friends are willing to support this community.

But once my friends stop supporting you, TIF can burn for all I care.

 

Can I be blunt too?

 

I've never had any of those problems. Maybe you and your group of friends weren't always "trolling for fun", saying oh this won't hurt anyone, then you wouldn't have those problems.

 

My feeling is this, you & co. seem to think you are better than the rest, as evidenced by the tone in your post, and that you somehow can troll topics and expect to get away with it.

 

Topics which include a playstyle different from your own will make you want to troll it, but why don't you just leave it alone??? I haven't seen Golvellius trolling in a while, maybe you and your friends should stop too eh?


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Can I be blunt too?

 

I've never had any of those problems. Maybe you and your group of friends weren't always "trolling for fun", saying oh this won't hurt anyone, then you wouldn't have those problems.

 

My feeling is this, you & co. seem to think you are better than the rest, as evidenced by the tone in your post, and that you somehow can troll topics and expect to get away with it.

 

Topics which include a playstyle different from your own will make you want to troll it, but why don't you just leave it alone??? I haven't seen Golvellius trolling in a while, maybe you and your friends should stop too eh?

When's the last time I questioned your playstyle?

Can you even provide a citation that isn't over a year old?

 

And yes some of my friends do that a lot, and I did a lot in the past.

But that's behind most of us now. And I don't encourage them to continue such behavior.

But I can't stop them if they really want to.


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I assumed you were talking about issues in the past since you mentioned it.

 

But since you never specified what exact kind of problems you argue about with the mods, I automatically assume the more controversial topics.

 

Tbh, stick to spamming/trolling your friends in Blogscape, and take it away from the pictures thread. That's just what I think.


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I assumed you were talking about issues in the past since you mentioned it.

 

But since you never specified what exact kind of problems you argue about with the mods, I automatically assume the more controversial topics.

 

Tbh, stick to spamming/trolling your friends in Blogscape, and take it away from the pictures thread. That's just what I think.

The problems are private matters. I'm not going to mention them specifically.

Some matters are of the past, some are not. Once again, I'm not going to spill the beans in this thread.

 

Furthermore, I barely even post in blogscape.

Almost every last post I've made in blogscape, has been in the my personal blog.

Which was made like, a week ago.

 

I don't know where you're getting your accusations from.

 

Sure, I raged a lot about how people should play their game over a year ago. Can you please get over it.


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Never said you in particular. Last sentence was meant as a blanket statement.

 

It's ok I don't need to hear your stories, my opinion is you will feel "overmoderrated" if you have frequent brushes with these issues, which is caused by "posting on the edge".

That's just how I see it, because personally I haven't felt the need to argue with mods or anything.


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That's not true at all. Flaming is bad regardless of who directs it....I agree that people who are personally insulted are more likely to report, but what's the alternative?

 

Often times I will just be reading the forums (not gen) and notice something that's bad flaming, like you said, and take care of it. But these forums are massive, with thousands of posts every day, we can't notice everything. I wish we could, but without your help we can't.

The suggestion is to remove some or all of the emphasis from reports to allow for a more balanced system. If that isn't applicable, then add something to the report system like it is in rs- if you report things that don't actually break any rules you also get into a risk of receiving warnings or being banned- that way people wouldn't bother excessively reporting people for calling them a coward or saying what they do is rubbish.

 

That's just how I see it, because personally I haven't felt the need to argue with mods or anything.

The point is, arguing with a tif mod should be like arguing with any other random member, but that it really isn't is proof of this overmoderation. Das actually is a great mod in that you can have heated arguments with him without being in a higher risk of a ban.


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First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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The suggestion is to remove some or all of the emphasis from reports to allow for a more balanced system. If that isn't applicable, then add something to the report system like it is in rs- if you report things that don't actually break any rules you also get into a risk of receiving warnings or being banned- that way people wouldn't bother excessively reporting people for calling them a coward or saying what they do is rubbish.

 

 

That is the case currently and people have been banned in the past for over-reporting things which didn't need reporting. Moderators will not take an action if they do not agree with what the reporter says. They will look through the thread to find the post reported in it's context. The problem is that this forum is used by many people, from all walks of life and of all ages. Some like you don't mind flaming as much and can deal with it, whereas others do not like to see it and find it ruins the forum for them. The compromise has to be made somewhere to please the larger number of people. Not seeing flaming won't put you off the forum but seeing it will put some off. It is then logical to remove the flaming.


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@ xpx

 

The report system is simply there for us to be made aware of things that we can't catch ourselves. Moderators still deal with things they find themselves, but we simply can't ask them to spend every minute of every day reading every post in every thread to find rule-violations on their own. It's not realistic. If we got rid of the report system then too many rule-breaking posts would go unnoticed and people would complain about it. Or instead of users submitting reports they would PM moderators directly which is less efficient than submitting reports. I'm not really sure what you're suggesting exactly when you want to take the emphasis off of reports. How would we do that? What exactly would we do differently? As for your second suggestion, we try not to actually punish people for submitting false reports - we usually just close them without taking action. But if we find it becoming a habit of that one person, we would probably send them a private message and explain why their reports are incorrect. We would only actually ban someone over it if it became so excessive that the moderators' time was constantly getting wasted.

 

It is perfectly acceptable to get into heated debates with moderators or admins. There's nothing wrong with it, just like there's nothing wrong with getting into heated debates with regular users. The only time it becomes an issue is if you resort to flaming or personal attacks instead of challenging ideas - but that's an issue when it's done with regular users as well. Furthermore, in order to avoid bias, if there is an issue with personal attack with a moderator, that moderator is not allowed to deal with it. Is there a reason you feel like there's a risk of getting a ban when arguing with other moderators (certain kind of attitude? something someone said? etc.)? Because if there's something that's causing you to feel that way, we would like to change it because that isn't how we want to run things and that isn't the impression we want to give to you guys.


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- 99 fletching | 99 thieving | 99 construction | 99 herblore | 99 smithing | 99 woodcutting -

- 99 runecrafting - 99 prayer - 125 combat - 95 farming -

- Blog - DeviantART - Book Reviews & Blog

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